B34ME Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm looking to purchase a Leslie to pair with my Hammond SK1 for use in my studio. I'm less concerned about sheer power and more concerned about quality of sound. I'm thinking about either the Studio 12 or the 2101mk2. Or should I stretch for the 3300? Anyone have a view as to which would be the better choice for me or the advantages of one over the other? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 3300 or a large vintage tube Leslie. If you can't stretch that I would just use a Vent of built in sim. But that is just me. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 3300 or a large vintage tube Leslie. If you can't stretch that I would just use a Vent of built in sim. But that is just me. Quote "I cried when I wrote this song Sue me if I play too long" Walter Becker Donald Fagan 1977 Deacon Blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The Studio 12 was reviewed in the magazine. It may be a good choice for home use. However, you can't go wrong with a 3300. The benefit of the 2101 MkII is that you can send the EVs to it as well and with a 2121 or other amp (or 2 for stereo EVs and more motion from the LR) below it to carry the low rotor and EVs it can be pretty powerful as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If you are from Europe the 3300W is nice but costly. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm less concerned about sheer power and more concerned about quality of sound... If this is the case then the 3300 is probably overkill. The 2101 is a simulated bass rotor and the leslie 12 is a real bass rotor. So to me it would appear to make more sense that the Leslie 12 "should" have better sound quality than the 2101 (but not necessarily). Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B34ME Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Thanks for all the helpful views. I've never used a Vent so from what you've said, it sounds like it is a significant improvement over the digital leslie in the SK1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The SK sim is pretty good. The overdrive is pretty bad. The Vent brings a somewhat better sim and much better overdrive. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The tube overdrive on the 3300 is good. Bass with a subout can be off the chart. The 3300 gives more than just sheer volume but it is $2500. For about half that you may find a vintage tube leslie. The 3300's forte is still that of being a 300 watt road cabinet. The vint is so good if I do bring out any Leslies I am still going to send the Vent to the FOH. Like Moe says it is the overdrive and how the sim responds to changes in the swell pedal. Plus you exactly what you are going to get every night. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-string-man Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I use the built in overdrive on the SK1 at just over half way, then the Vent to really boost it. Sounds fantastic, much better than either of the o/d's on their own. SSM Quote Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Oh...you can definitely go wrong with a 3300. One of the worst purchases I ever made. Fortunately, I bought it used and only lost a couple hundred when I sold it. Why? Because it is nothing but a loud amp. It doesn't have any of the character of a real tube Leslie. I hated it with everything, including my B3 and my A100 chop. (The A100 had a Trek Preamp in it. Trek + 3300 = HARSH) Quote Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ademus Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 3300! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-string-man Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Oh...you can definitely go wrong with a 3300. One of the worst purchases I ever made. Fortunately, I bought it used and only lost a couple hundred when I sold it. Why? Because it is nothing but a loud amp. It doesn't have any of the character of a real tube Leslie. I hated it with everything, including my B3 and my A100 chop. (The A100 had a Trek Preamp in it. Trek + 3300 = HARSH) I read this response, and my immediate reaction was "This guy doesn't know what he's talking about!" Then I looked at the poster. Hmmm. Mitch, I'm amazed. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone slagging off the 3300, I thought they were supposed to be one of the holy grails? Obviously, I bow to your superior knowledge, but I'm still a bit gobsmacked. It's like Michael Schumaker came out and said "You know, they're pretty crap, those Ferrari's..... " SSM Quote Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B34ME Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Mitch, I've only heard rave reviews of the 3300 so I thought the only issue for me was whether I wanted to pay $2500 or go with something less expensive. If you don't like the 3300 can I assume you'd feel the same about the Studio 12 or the 2101 mk2 because they are also solid state and not tube amps like the 122 or other full size tube Leslies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie_Chicago Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Im no expert on the matter but I do play Hammond / Leslie primarily . I havnt used a 3300 but I have used a 2101mk2 , that didn't cut it for me but it didn't sound bad, Im just used to the originals. In what context would you be using it for ? If your playing in a loud band and want it to really cut through , a 3300 would be great. I used an older little 860 for a long time that had the most balls of any leslie I ever used, but not much warmth, but in the context I was using it, it was perfect. These days I use a road chopped 147 through a speakeasy pre amp and it sounds great, but lugging that around , especially in winter with snow etc, is it worth it ? Do you want to lug around a big and heavy 3300 ? I have to say Im very impressed with the neo vent these days and can dial in a nice sound. If your playing Jazz in a traditional organ role, I would be using a full size leslie and probably a 122 or 147, if your going to go through the trouble of lugging a 3300, get a road warrior 122 or 147 for half the cost. Quote "Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie_Chicago Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I should have read the original post.....sorry. For studio use only, I would just use a neo vent, or even a burn, recording wise there would be little gained by using a studio 12 or 3300. Quote "Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Since my post raised a couple eyebrows, I will expand on my thoughts about the Leslie 3300. The pros of the 3300, in my opinion, are as follows: 1. Loud. Really loud. Louder than any other Leslie. Marshall stack loud. Loud. 2. Numerous EQ controls, including a very nice "Horn Level" adjustment that helps you dial in your balance between the horn and rotor. You can make the horn really loud. 3. A nice portable form factor compared to a full-sized Leslie. Good handles. Add a good pair of casters and it is very easy to move around. Now, for the other side. 1. Lousy sound. As I said above, it shares no total character with a real Leslie other than the fact that the horn spins and the rotor turns. It's a harsh-sounding, solid state amplifier with a mostly useless adjustable tube pre-amp feature. It doesn't matter if you change the tube, it never really adds any warmth. A big part of the problem with the sound is in the horn. There is something special about the vintage Jensen V21 horn drivers that were used in vintage Leslies. The best way I can describe it is that those drivers take the percussion and the key click and "squish" them together in some oddly organic way...and THAT'S the sound. I recently purchased a replacement driver from Tonewheel General Hospital for my 44w/21H amp Leslie project because the V21 was shot. I bought the one that was supposed to be a great replacement for the vintage V21. I hated it and ended up having the V21 re-diaphramed. That restored the classic sound. The 3300 suffers from the same issue. The click and percussion sound like separate elements. There is no warmth to it and the sound isn't rounded out like a vintage Leslie. Additionally, the bass response of the 3300 is lacking when compared to a vintage Leslie. If you are playing jazz, there is a missing element of the LH and pedal tones. I set up the 3300 beside my 147 and 22H numerous times and tweaked it as much as possible and it never sounded close. The difference was obvious. Also, as I said above, the sound of the 3300 with a Hammond with a Trek pre-amp was very unsatisfying. It was the worst of both worlds. Incidentally, I sold the A100 chop also. I guess I am a stickler for the real sound. If I am going to haul around a Hammond, why take one with the soul (AO28) removed? Might as well use a clone at that point. Anyway, hope that sheds a little more light into my opinion. I know there are some people who really like the 3300, but I am not one of them. Quote Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3Nut Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The 3300 could, IMHO, be greatly improved had they left more room inside to mount different horn drivers. The horn motor is too close to the driver mount which limits the maximum diameter of the rear of the driver to basically the dimensions of the Hammond-Suzuki driver or smaller, and the driver that I think would improve it greatly (Atlas PD-5 AlNiCo or PD-5VH) is too wide. I hear you on the AO-28...it contributes more to the Hammond tone than some realize. Ditto the AO-10 in the -2 series boxes...some consider it the best-sounding preamp Hammond ever made. The Trek II SSP-3 is reliable for sure, I just can't warm up to the sound of them in any organ I've played so equipped. They seem to take all the low-mid warmth and "guts" out. TP Quote --- Todd A. Phipps "...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..." http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markay Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I would have to endorse your harsh and brittle comment Mitch. I heard a Hammond endorsed artist playing an XK3c system through a 3300 in a medium sized club at reasonable volume, and harsh and brittle were my thoughts. Like an extreme example of the difference between Solid state and valve amps. By comparison I was able to be about 10' from Booker T's 122 ( I think) when he toured here earlier this year and it was sweet and 'buttery' at full volume. A sim or an original Leslie seem to be the only two options. Seeing the Stones next week so I guess I will be able to hear how realistic Chuck's Vent sounds. Quote A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mak1457 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I never really liked the 3300 bass either. I kept thinking I ought to have more depth with such a loud sound but I didn't. If I remember correctly, changing the reverb settings helped a little but I always missed the depth that I was expecting. The EQ settings didn't really help that much either. Maybe the fact I was playing an XK3c made a difference, I don't know. On the plus side, I could move it whenever and wherever I wanted thanks to the bottom casters. If this Spacestation 3 is all it's cracked up to be and I like the bass, I'll probably swear off Leslie's forever. Quote Hammond XK1-c, Hammond XPK-100, Yamaha FC-7, Spacestation V3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The 3300 can sound very good if set up properly and with the right preamp tube. I love it. Yes, if you kick bass you will need a sub of some kind. I made that pretty clear in my review. The benefit (extreme headroom and volume) outweigh the negatives (the sound isn't going through four or more tubes running at full plate voltage) in a lot of live situations. I set up the 3300 beside my 147 and 22H numerous times and tweaked it as much as possible and it never sounded close. The difference was obvious. I'm sure that's true. It is also probably true that the 147 and the 22H sound very different from each other as well. I know that my two 122s sound different from each other and that they also sound different than my 21H which is different than my 47 which is different than the local studio's 21H which is different than... A friend of mine gigs with a '63 B3 connected to a 3300. It sounds amazing. Yes, the V21 driver is great but they are completely and utterly unreliable for live use. You gotta do what you gotta do. For the OP's situation, however, since volume is not a factor, I would look for a 145 or something similar. Why not get the real tube sound for studio? Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B34ME Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Man, you guys are enormously helpful. While I'm just using it in a studio for my own pleasure, I really appreciate great sound, so I will now have to look into a vintage 122 or 145. Forgive my ignorance, but do I need any special cables or boxes to run my SK-1 into a vintage Leslie? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Man, you guys are enormously helpful. While I'm just using it in a studio for my own pleasure, I really appreciate great sound, so I will now have to look into a vintage 122 or 145. Forgive my ignorance, but do I need any special cables or boxes to run my SK-1 into a vintage Leslie? Many thanks. the quick answer is yes. there are several different types of preamps, your leslie choice will need to be made first to determine what is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 IMHO a tube preamp does wonders for the 3300. I own an AMA and an Organ Drive, and getting the tone from one of them really makes the Leslie sing. But I'm on the same page as many others - if the Space Station is as good as it seems I won't be bringing the 3300 all that often. The holy grail is - of course - a big tube Leslie and in a studio situation I prefer those. But the 3300 with the AMA comes pretty close..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Man, you guys are enormously helpful. While I'm just using it in a studio for my own pleasure, I really appreciate great sound, so I will now have to look into a vintage 122 or 145. Forgive my ignorance, but do I need any special cables or boxes to run my SK-1 into a vintage Leslie? Many thanks. If you get one of these, you can run your SK-1 into any Leslie. They are a bit pricey, though. Check eBay. Quote Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Man, you guys are enormously helpful. While I'm just using it in a studio for my own pleasure, I really appreciate great sound, so I will now have to look into a vintage 122 or 145. Forgive my ignorance, but do I need any special cables or boxes to run my SK-1 into a vintage Leslie? Many thanks. If you get one of these, you can run your SK-1 into any Leslie. They are a bit pricey, though. Check eBay. Mitch - are you referring to the AMA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Towne Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Oops. No. I forgot the link. I'd never use anything from Speakeasy. http://www.trekii.com/UC1A.html Quote Endorsing Artist/Ambassador for MAG Organs and Motion Sound Amplifiers, Organ player for SRT - www.srtgroove.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Since the SK-1 has an 8 pin Leslie connector you might use one of the Hammond adapters. That would allow you to use the SK's buttons and/or a footswitch to control the Leslie. http://hammondorganco.com/products/accessories-a-parts/accessories/adapters/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Oops. No. I forgot the link. http://www.trekii.com/UC1A.html got it I'd never use anything from Speakeasy. OK, then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ademus Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Oops. No. I forgot the link. I'd never use anything from Speakeasy. http://www.trekii.com/UC1A.html Could you elaborate? I had my problems with Steve RIP but their products are stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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