Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Analogaddict]

To my fellow "analog addict" (nice name!), THANK YOU so much for your suggestions. I know of "The" music store (Koln. yes?), they have a great reputation. They used to be my dealer when I owned Groove Tubes and GT amps (for 30 years!). Back then I drove all over Germany and hit all the big stores, but my contacts there were the guitar guys, and V.3 is more a keyboad product, or small pub PA. I will reach out to them but I am sure they are very busy.

The other one you mentioned, EP-service, is new to me and sounds interesting. If they already handle my pals over at Vintage Vibe (great stuff) then I know they are quaility guys who like interesting keyboard products...so I will try and get in contact with them as well.

My export goal is to find a single outlet for Germany (and maybe for the rest of EU) to keep the street price low...as I have done in USA by partnering exclusively with Sweetwater. That usually means "no distributors" but rather large retail shops...and many of these do not like the trouble with importing into the EC (lots of expensive roadblocks)...but I will keep trying.

Thanks again so much for your kind words, suggestions and interest in CPS.

 

Thanks for listening..! I hope you'll sell boatloads of them. Good keyboard amps are not common. I use 2 Bose L1 - they're great, but a tad too much for the regular pub gig. And a bit fragile compared to a combo amp.

[hardware]

Well for those guys wondering about the idea of a mix being sent into the Space Station IMO this is the way the amp was designed to be used.

I have an XITE-1 DSP Rack which is where my Sample Libraries and hardware synths are mixed prior to going out to my old Barbetta's and K12's.

No longer do I perform in large showrooms but small venues.

The K12s are my mains with Barbetta 41s underneath, the Space Station is my stage monitor and so much better than a pair of powered midfields.

I can see RME Total Mix being an adequate way to use sampled material too. Most guys I know prefer more articulations, hence Receptors or DSP rack/PC's for live work.

Also worth noting is how I can control the focus of the low end using Brainrox Digital V.2's mono maker.

Frequencies below 180 is my sweet spot.

Using a Sub just isn't necessary for me.

I get plenty of thick tones from my SE-1/SE-1X and Solaris, not to mention the great sampled instruments like LASS, Plectrum, Chris Hein Horns, PianoTeq.

I play along with a 30" Kick mic'd with an X32 rack, a JC800 half stack and an Ampeg SVT. Their cabinets are directional and even in the back of these little clubs the waittail cocktresses tell us the sound is great, and I also let guys sit in and listen for myself.

The stage sound is gorgeous. the back of the room still retains a nice stereo image.

If I upgrade I don't need a Guitar Center demo, I already demo'd the skills of this developer on an older MKII. I'll just buy one, but I wish I could find a reason as I am quite happy with my current rig.

[Aspen]

Hey guys, just a quick heads up on two items;

First, we've found a local pal of ours who has been using a Nord for the last 5 years, so he will be doing that "request" for a Nord video demo next week. Al had an old Fender SFX keyboard amp and was the 2nd local player here to buy a new V.3 from me a few weeks ago. I just didn't know then he was using a Nord. That video will be uploaded on YouTube like the other videos. If there is a certain patch you like us to use, let me know and Al will cover that! We also are doing another V.3 video with a whole band AND a live drummer, again recorded live with a MS mic.

Secondly, for anyone in the LA Area, I have just booked 2 two hour SS V.3 demo/performance sessions for the upcoming Amp Show here in Van Nuys California on Oct. 4&5 (next weekend). This is a great show but mostly focused on guitar amps and FX. I know the promoter for years, Lonnie Spector, and I felt it would be a great opportunity to offer some attraction for the keyboard players. Lonnie agreed and gave me a great spot to do the sessions. My sessions will be 1-3p Sat and Sun and we'll be in a good sized conference room. I will bring out the V.3 w/sub, a mixer w/ fx and some great local talent to play thru the V.3. We'll talk about keyboard amplification, a first for the Amp Show! I am just putting my "band" and set list together. I'll do 2 one hour sets each day, discussing the technology for 10-15 minutes, followed by some live music performances to show off our "Little Big Man" stereo box. Mention that you are a KEYBOARD CORNER member that came to see the V.3 and you'll get a 50% discount off the entry ticket (my treat). I know this would be a very long drive for most of you, but if you have any LA pals, please let them know. Thanks!

[Jazzmammal]

..for anyone in the LA Area, I have just booked 2 two hour SS V.3 demo/performance sessions for the upcoming Amp Show here in Van Nuys California on Oct. 4&5 (next weekend).

 

Awesome, I will be there for sure! Anybody bringing an SK1? If not I can bring mine.

 

Bob

[cphollis]

Aspen -- everyone has their own Nord piano sample favorites, but a couple of popular ones include the Fazioli and the Bright Grand. They're best straight out: no effects except for maybe a hint of reverb. While you're at it, a few of the Rhodes samples with chorus or tremolo would be nice as well.

 

Doing a recording with a live band (including drummer!) is a great idea.

 

Thanks!

[SK]

Aspen, pardon one more request:

 

if a piano sample is included in the demo, could the player also play something sustained and soft in the mid-range? I only ask this because playing hard on a digital piano can sound brittle, and AP sample demos usually focus on the highs and the lows which naturally sound more convincing. I'm almost ready to buy - thanks a lot!

[HAMEGZ]

Saturdays gig was in a larger club but still a wall behind me and to my left, but the SS was facing that way.

 

Rig was SK2 and Jupiter, and NO problems with clipping or thinness(which I attribute to premature operator error and not enough pre-gig time to adjust thing)

 

my last combo of gear will be the MOXF8 with Ksounds Signature Piano (among other libraries)and the Nord Stage 2 73.

 

Listening to that rig in my living room the Nords organ now sounds underwhelming compared to the SK.

 

This space station, to me, opens up and magnifies sounds I never was aware of before.The organs and the rotary are a fine example. I have a MS 145 (mono)and the vent(2 channels) but the MS spatial sound field is just different than "stereo" and 2 speakers, hard to explain , you just have to hear it.

 

Some instruments are more subtle, "acoustic" pianos, for example.Most programming pans the bass section left and right hand right, which you hear in headphones or stereo monitors.The SS just envelopes you like your sitting on the bench.

 

EPs with chorus or panning(I hate that fx) or vibrato/tremolo jump out and spread. Like playing a Rhodes Stage, but better.

 

The major improvements, however, are that the band can now hear me on stage without the one dimensional field of floor monitors, and I feel the whole on stage experience.

 

I was using IEMs and although the isolation was great, the feeling wasn't there. Since the SS is in line , it seems the other guys are not playing as loud and dynamics are more in control. Maybe a placebo effect, but it is now pleasant on stage and not a war of instruments (the reason for my IEMs were they were too damn loud).

 

I want to temper my comments with this point. I am reading certain members are honing in on the reproduction of digital piano tones. That seems to be the benchmark of an amplifier.

 

I cannot comment in a solo or trio setting but in a band context MY pianos now sound more like pianos. AFA as the tweaking of the SS triamp settings for piano vs other sounds, I leave mine at 12 o clock and , if necessary, dial in a per patch eq setting.

 

BUT my venues are not your venues, so certainly just he fact Aspen included the gains for mids and highs should accommodate 99.9% of sound challenges.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I cannot comment in a solo or trio setting but in a band context MY pianos now sound more like pianos.

Compared to what? i.e. what amp/speaker(s) were you using for piano in the band context previously?

[HAMEGZ]

I cannot comment in a solo or trio setting but in a band context MY pianos now sound more like pianos.

Compared to what? i.e. what amp/speaker(s) were you using for piano in the band context previously?

 

Mono K10, mono ZX1A, mono Traynor K2. K4 in stereo , Roland KC500 mono and then two linked in stereo....

[AnotherScott]

If the piano sounds more like piano through the SS than the mono ZXa1, that's pretty impressive. I've lost track a little as to which piano sounds you've actually tried that way. Have you tried the standard piano sound of the MOX? Have you tried the newer Nord samples (Grand Imperial or newer)?

[ADino]

If anyone tries a px5 thru 1 of these

Id love 2 hear ur feedback.

[HAMEGZ]

If the piano sounds more like piano through the SS than the mono ZXa1, that's pretty impressive. I've lost track a little as to which piano sounds you've actually tried that way. Have you tried the standard piano sound of the MOX? Have you tried the newer Nord samples (Grand Imperial or newer)?

 

Good Morning Scott

 

L purchased the EV based on the reports here with regards to piano.My first one had issues and I had to return it to the factory for a replacement of an overheating module.

 

My issue with the EV is it isn't loud enough, I found myself running the gain knob wide open.Yes it was more neutral than the K10, but didn't cover the stage,

 

The issue with all though, is they are a focused projection versus the spatial field of the SS.Whatever small niggle with tonality on a patch is relative to hearing the sound field around you, thus the experience of sitting at a piano.

 

I haven't tried the MOXF stock pianos, because frankly, they are just ok, well compared to the libraries I have loaded. I am sure there will be an improvement in them.

 

AFA the Nord, I have the Yammy XL and the Italian XL loaded.However, my board is the 73 compact and unweighted, so its not a great gauge of exposed piano.I suppose I could drive the Nord from a weighted board and have a listen.

 

I was really hesitant to comment on acoustic piano with the SS, Scott, since feelings rank right up there with the VR09/Sk wars.

But for me and my venues it is more satisfying.

[ChrisDespo]

Saturdays gig was in a larger club but still a wall behind me and to my left, but the SS was facing that way.

 

Just curious - are you placing the SS on an amp stand or mounting up higher using anything? I placed my order for an SS (it's on back order at Sweetwater for couple weeks) and I wasn't sure if it has a speaker mount bracket under it for pole mounting or if you need to just get an amp stand or stool to lift it to ear level. Thanks for the reviews so far. Looking forward to getting this in my hands and trying it. I'll post my comments using it with my rig in the local Baltimore clubs ...

[HAMEGZ]

Saturdays gig was in a larger club but still a wall behind me and to my left, but the SS was facing that way.

 

Just curious - are you placing the SS on an amp stand or mounting up higher using anything? I placed my order for an SS (it's on back order at Sweetwater for couple weeks) and I wasn't sure if it has a speaker mount bracket under it for pole mounting or if you need to just get an amp stand or stool to lift it to ear level. Thanks for the reviews so far. Looking forward to getting this in my hands and trying it. I'll post my comments using it with my rig in the local Baltimore clubs ...

 

Yes it is at ear level, actually sitting atop a 4 space rack bag that sits on a small folding wooden table.All of those things you mentioned will work as long as its off the floor.

 

The last gig I mentioned it was sitting closer to me and I had the volume turned down because of its proximity to me, , but the band still heard the keys.

 

Please do post your comments and observations, it will help others and the feedback to Aspen is good also.

[AnotherScott]

My issue with the EV is it isn't loud enough, I found myself running the gain knob wide open.Yes it was more neutral than the K10, but didn't cover the stage,

I think this also depends on how hot the output of the keyboard is. I did run into that issue myself once, on a rare one-keyboard gig where I went right into the EV. But most of the time, my keys go into a small mixer before going to the EV, and in that case, I've never had a problem. And while I've never tried it, I think you might also be able to solve the problem with a cable that takes the 1/4" from your keyboard and puts it into the XLR connection on the EV so as to take advantage of its mic preamp.

 

Yes it is at ear level, actually sitting atop a 4 space rack bag that sits on a small folding wooden table.

I'd be curious to know if it is nearly as effective and pleasing if just placed on the floor, or if you find that raising it is really pretty essential.

[HAMEGZ]

I'd be curious to know if it is nearly as effective and pleasing if just placed on the floor, or if you find that raising it is really pretty essential.

 

Good question. Since it can't really be placed as a wedge, it would have to sit upright.The bass coupling would probably be better, but maybe Aspen can chime in on this.

 

I am thinking the spatial thing may still occur, albeit reduced, but the mids and highs will be absorbed by feet and gear at floor level.I may try it at a gig to see.

[PianoMan51]

Does anyone think that the thousands of stereo speaker companies haven't ever experimented with an M/S speaker?

I never saw this!

 

[video:youtube]

[HAMEGZ]

Does anyone think that the thousands of stereo speaker companies haven't ever experimented with an M/S speaker?

I never saw this!

 

[video:youtube]

 

well the web shows his company introducing it in 2007. Aspen predates that by many years.

 

Also his design is based on 3 speakers for spatial, Aspens is 2.

 

Is there room for more devices, sure.

 

I am glad Mr Pittman didn't say "aw shucks" its been done, why recreate the wheel or if it was so great why aren't speaker manufacturers making them in droves.

 

Interesting video though.

[PianoMan51]

Interesting video though.

Wasn't trying to state or imply anything other than interest.

 

I'm trying to remember simplified mid-side microphone theory.

An ideal center mic is picking up L+R.

An ideal sideways figure 8 mic is picking up L-R.

To reconstitute separate stereo L and R channels:

(L+R) + (L-R) = 2L

(L+R) - (L-R) = 2R

ta da!

 

Now, in a world where things can sometimes be reversed, if I start out with L and R channels, can I push these into a mid-side speaker?

L+R = signal into center speaker

L-R = signal into free-space (figure 8?) speaker

 

Theo! Where are you? We need an experiment. Does this work? Do we need the side speaker to be cabinetless (coincident plus and minus phase)? For laughs, could three speaker cabs be wired for center (L+R), left facing (L-R) and right facing (-L+R) and get some reasonable stereo effect?

[16251]

Also his design is based on 3 speakers for spatial, Aspens is 2.

I personally wouldn't mind competition for these technologies. I also might like to check out one of those desktop blue tooth speakers that airSound makes.

 

I am excited about owning an SS but not in a rush. My thinking is to give manufacturing a chance to maybe work out bugs in design. Maybe something small like choice of screws, etc. Does anyone think about that?

[J. Dan]

Now, in a world where things can sometimes be reversed, if I start out with L and R channels, can I push these into a mid-side speaker?

L+R = signal into center speaker

L-R = signal into free-space (figure 8?) speaker

 

Theo! Where are you? We need an experiment. Does this work? Do we need the side speaker to be cabinetless (coincident plus and minus phase)? For laughs, could three speaker cabs be wired for center (L+R), left facing (L-R) and right facing (-L+R) and get some reasonable stereo effect?

 

The idea is to get a stereo image out of a single cabinet. Why would you want to use 3 cabinets to get a stereo image? Either way, this is what a surround sound decoder does. Run your keys into your surround receiver and that's what you get.

 

In the example you gave, you end up with a center, and a second mono channel with everything not panned center. Wouldn't be a stereo image, per se, but would split, for instance, vocal and effects.

[cphollis]

The idea is to get a stereo image out of a single cabinet.

 

That's the appeal. If I bring along a boatload of gear, I can get all sorts of stereo. But I don't want to do that all the time, especially in smaller venues, or rehearsals.

 

And the idea of "everyone gets a stereo mix anywhere" is very appealing.

[Aspen]

Does anyone think that the thousands of stereo speaker companies haven't ever experimented with an M/S speaker?

I never saw this!

 

[video:youtube]

 

Well shucks, I guess I need to chime in here now and set the record straight. This Ted Fletcher fellow popped up back in '07 announcing his invention; "Airsound", his breakthrough technology! He was seeking (and got) millions from UK investors based on his "utility patent pending" application with the British patent office...as he mentions in his video. He said the revelation came to him in a dream. Actually, it was more like watching one of my demonstration at AES convention in Europe years earlier. I believe it was 2003 or 2004. And that was several years after we won the "Best New Technology of the Year" at the Frankfurt Musik Messe (awarded by the International Press) for the Fender Acoustisonic w/ SFX guitar amp (made under our license). Fletcher was very impressed with my demonstration and wanted to "chat", which is why I remember him. He told me how important he was as a legendary UK audio designer. When somebody forwarded me his website, and I read some of these dribble "dream" claims...I fell off my chair! So I wrote a "friend of the court" letter to the British patent office, copied to Fletcher, reminding him of our visit at the AES show, and also of my utility patent held in USA, Germany and UK filed in 2000. I also mentioned several "prior art" designs in HiFi products dating back 50 years.

Furthermore, at the time he was trying to sell his "patent" to an amp manufacturer in UK...to whom I supplied Groove Tubes. Ted wanted to license him "Airsound" for guitar and keyboard amps. He was the one who tipped me about Fletcher in a phone call because I had shown him my technology many years earlier, just before I exclusively licensed it to Fender back in 1999 when I was still patent pending (and believe me the Fender patent lawyers checked my utility patent application out real good!).

When Fletcher was just trying for a patent in Hi Fi, I paid little attention, but when I heard he was trying to move into my world; the music amplification field in direct violation of my USA and UK patent, I was pretty upset. My UK patent attorney wrote him a letter to put him on notice. The Airsound amp was dropped and I never heard from him again in the MI Markt. As I know most of the investors pulled out when the British Court tossed out his utility application. I see he is still out there marketing a TV speaker under a new name and claiming a patent (obviously some worthless design patent on the shape of his box or something), and as long as he stays out of MI amps I could care less about him anymore.

No doubt; the Airsound "invention" was a con from the start. Just watch the video. There have been sooo many phase tricks in Hi Fi products over sooo many years that there was no way my slightly different "snowman" speaker placement design coupled with a sum & diff matrix (like a MS mic capsule array and MS decoder in reverse) would get a utility patent in that broad filed of "audio" (which is what Fletcher had filed for, and flopped). Except for perhaps a worthless design patent anyone could get around.

But nobody ever conceived that stereo would become such a big part of musical instruments, in recording and live performance. A stereo E piano? A portable stereo Organ w/ Leslie simulation? Stereo Chorus, Flange and Delay for the guitar player? Nonsense!

That was, until my partner Drew Daniels (RIP) came up with that spark of an idea that I developed with him. And wow, the first time we tried it we were both stood in awe...how come NOBODY ever thought of this for MAKING music? So we narrowed our patent claim to "live stereo performance" and in due course we were awarded utility patents in the USA and several other countries.

Sorry to bore you all with this background, but I thought I should nip this nonsense in the bud. And now, I am done speaking about that short legal nightmare and total waste of my life force. I would MUCH prefer talking about new ways CPS can make music better for us and our audiences.

[Aspen]

I'd be curious to know if it is nearly as effective and pleasing if just placed on the floor, or if you find that raising it is really pretty essential.

Actually, my SS V.3 has more bass coupling when placed on the floor...and I do not recommend putting it on a chair or pole...that is unless you are using a sub. In fact, for those smaller gigs, you won't NEED a sub when it's placed on the floor or better in a corner as that enhances the low end. I have placed them in ceiling and that is VERY effective for a permanent install, say in a small pub. But in that case I recommend mounting it upside down...the side benefits from a reflective surface like a floor or ceiling, it increases the acoustical vortex (read; more 3D magic!). Try it on the floor, and while playing hav somebody just lift it up a few feet, you'll hear what I am talking about...it's likes the floor.

But if on a chair or cab it will be closer to ear levels, so I get that...but again, with a sub in the mix it works out great.

[Aspen]

L+R = signal into center speaker

L-R = signal into free-space (figure 8?) speaker

 

Theo! Where are you? We need an experiment. Does this work? Do we need the side speaker to be cabinetless (coincident plus and minus phase)? For laughs, could three speaker cabs be wired for center (L+R), left facing (L-R) and right facing (-L+R) and get some reasonable stereo effect?

Yes, exactly how my encoder works, and as we have described in numerous papers and videos for many years. But as with most "theorys" the devil is in the details! I have tried literally DOZENS of cabs with 2 (or more) side speakers spaced and other weird variations (like that Airsound TV speaker...and long before Airsound), but nothing works as well as two transducers at 90 degrees and as close as you can get them...trust me....my attic is littered with "no cigar" speaker boxes".

Look at any MS mic, same principles there; the capsules need to be @ 90 degrees and as close as physically possible. It's physics, and Gods laws are absolute!

[Aspen]

Aspen, pardon one more request:

 

if a piano sample is included in the demo, could the player also play something sustained and soft in the mid-range? I only ask this because playing hard on a digital piano can sound brittle, and AP sample demos usually focus on the highs and the lows which naturally sound more convincing. I'm almost ready to buy - thanks a lot!

We just finished a few acoustic guitar videos, and the next ones will be a fuller band w/ acoustic drums (I can't find any drummer who wants to play E-drums for me!!). Then we have our pianoman Al in the cue. Al has that Nord and will do a video with some organ and piano patches. Michael Boddicker just hooked me up with the new Casio Privia 5, which has some great acoustical piano patches, so we will definately try and answer all your requests here...keep those comments coming!

BTW, Al will be on keyboards (+guitar synth and bass) for my live band demo at the The Amp show this weekend.

[Aspen]

RE AMP SHOW THIS WEEKEND: " Mention that you are a KEYBOARD CORNER member that came to see the V.3 and you'll get a 50% discount off the entry ticket (my treat).

Ooops, the promoter shot me down on this idea, the admission is $20 and "nobody gets a discount". The "Lonster" likes to keep it simple..

So I have a better offer; if you are 1st time attendee and a Keyboard Corner reader coming to see my CPS demo, then just let me know and I'll give you a signed copy of my Tube Amp Book, a $50 cover price, OR, a $10 bill to cover 50% of your ticket...your option! Best I can do, sorry for the change of plans.

[jimkost2002]

Aspen, thank you so much for your wonderful work and your presence on this forum!

The SS v3 sounds like the perfect solution to my needs for my local one offs!

I will be putting my order in with Sweetwater after10 October...

Thank you again for the work you do! And I look forward to receiving the SS v3!

[Al Coda]

... but nothing works as well as two transducers at 90 degrees and as close as you can get them...It's physics, and Gods laws are absolute!

 

Hi Aspen!

 

Just only by technical interest I wonder why you selected a 6.5" side speaker and not exactly the same coax speaker and HF tweeter triple amp combo in 90° arrangement.

Is it because drivers/tweeters, in opposite to a cone speaker, are closed at the back and the side effect only works w/ cone speakers ?

 

Isn´t it the side frequency spectrum is much different compared to the front ?

 

How does the cab behave in a "dead" room?

Just curious because some of my buddies have carpet covering the walls of the small rehearsal room completely.

I don´t say I like it but it is.

Does the cab need reflective walls ?

 

What´s up on a outdoor festival stage ?

 

A.C.

[Tobias Åslund]

I'm also interested in the idea with no treble speaker for the side channel. So far I've already read a couple of positive reviews om how this new version reproduces ac pianos, but then I wonder - is this only when your sitting in front of the Spacestation? How do the pianos sound when you're listening in an off-axis position? In my experience treble drivers and tweeters are quite directional, and most speaker sounds good as long your in the sweet spot, but turn it away from you and the treble repsonse will be far less pleasing.

Back to the Spacestation - I am sure that it will indeed sound great when your in front of it, and since I have the original spacestation (mk I) I am sure it will fill the room with a nice stereo feel, but again - how will the upper end of the spectrum, which is so important for ac pianos, sound in different positions in the room?

 

I would love to listen to a Mk III in person, but I'm guessing I won't won't be able to do so, since I'm in the north of Europe, and Sweden in particular is a small market where very few retailers will take chances with lesser known brands - a shame really! And no matter how good the reviews are - I don't think I'll buy another powered speaker without trying first.

 

Anyway - this is a really interesting piece of gear, and judging from the reviews so far, most of the issues with previous versions seems to have been fixed by now! Keep up the good work!