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#2609695 - 07/08/14 05:44 PM lap steel, pedal steel, et al
hurricane hugo Offline
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Has anyone here ever taken the leap into either world? How was it for you?

We await your answers; in the meantime, here's a pretty one, courtesy of eBay:

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#2609713 - 07/08/14 08:21 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: hurricane hugo]
BadLife Offline
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I have a lap steel. Once you pick a tuning its easy to make interesting sounds. I still have a hard time using finger picks but you can use unconventional techniques like a regular pick or just your fingers. Hard to master easy to mess with. Worth the time if you like to try different things. I still remember Poco they featured a lap steel. Of course I have a hard time passing anything with strings without giving it a go. blush

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#2609718 - 07/08/14 08:40 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: BadLife]
p90jr Offline
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I need to get a lap steel... or a pedal steel...

a bandmate plays lap in one of the bands I'm in, and I've messed around with his a bit (though he uses some really oddball tuning he made up himself that I couldn't quite get a handle on).

I'm amazed at footage of Nels Cline playing lap steel in Wilco, in standard tuning... mind-boggling.

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#2609739 - 07/08/14 11:14 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Offline
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If my left hand ever gives out, I plan to switch to slide guitar...(and do it in standard tuning if I can handle it, and try a few altered tunings as well). I'll leave the pedal steel and lap steel to the pros, as I'm not that talented on them from past experiences/trys...

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#2609789 - 07/09/14 07:29 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Larryz]
SEHpicker Offline
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David Gilmour does some pretty cool stuff with a pedal steel.
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#2609819 - 07/09/14 09:28 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: SEHpicker]
Danzilla Offline
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Originally Posted By: SEHpicker
David Gilmour does some pretty cool stuff with a pedal steel.


Steve Howe does, too.

I've considered getting a 6-string lap steel, but don't think I could go full-on pedal steel, no matter how few or many strings. Just not enough time to learn it well enough to do it justice.
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#2609902 - 07/09/14 12:54 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Danzilla]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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If you're gonna try lap-steel, you need heavy strings and a good, fairly massive tone bar, like this excellent Dunlop Lap Dawg:

______

A friend of mine bought a cheap Rogue RLS-1 lap steel from Musician's Friend when they had a special on 'em, reduced down even lower than the current $99 price.

Using that Lap Dawg on my friend's Rogue or another friend's ancient, cheapo beginner acoustic lap-steel instead of a small, cheap tone bar or a regular slide or spark-plug socket made a night-and-day improvement in tone, playability, and sustain!

The Rogue RLS-1 is actually pretty cool for a budget lap-steel, especially since I put some heavy Martin Dobro-High-G strings on it and set the intonation, and it came with a really nice custom fitted soft-case/gig-bag that has a storage compartment for three telescoping legs that attach to the instrument. cool (Looks like this for packing- image too big to post.)

________ (Borrowed image of someone elses's RLS-1)

________

Here's a pretty cool demo vid of someone playing one of these cheap Rogue lap steels:

__________.
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#2609943 - 07/09/14 03:50 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: p90jr]
hurricane hugo Offline
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Originally Posted By: p90jr
I need to get a lap steel... or a pedal steel...

a bandmate plays lap in one of the bands I'm in, and I've messed around with his a bit (though he uses some really oddball tuning he made up himself that I couldn't quite get a handle on).

I'm amazed at footage of Nels Cline playing lap steel in Wilco, in standard tuning... mind-boggling.


David Lindley was my first lap steel hero:

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#2609970 - 07/09/14 05:53 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: hurricane hugo]
p90jr Offline
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Behold, The PedalTele!!!


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#2609978 - 07/09/14 06:37 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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Loc: Northern California
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18obUYfRt5M <--- this would be my 1st lesson...

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#2610084 - 07/10/14 06:22 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Larryz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18obUYfRt5M <--- this would be my 1st lesson...


Nice! I'll hafta try that C6 tuning sometime, too- C E G A C E, low-to-high... cool

By the way, I like to use picking-hand induced Artificial-Harmonics similar to the way the player in that video starts the memorable signature-line in "Sleep Walk"; but I pick or pluck with my picking-hand fingers while touching the string with the edge of my thumb to create the dead-spot "node" for the harmonic-chime. Try that sometime, it's much easier and less awkward than the Classical technique of plucking with the thumb ("p") and touching the string with the index ("i") finger... Due to the curvature of that edge along the side of my thumb-nail, I can produce "D-shape" triads of harmonic-chimes up and down the neck, fretting a "D"-style 5th-root-Maj3rd grip on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd strings, respectively; try it! Then apply it to groups of intervals you can find on various groups of strings with the Slide or Tone Bar.

I've used a G6 tuning- D G E G B D, lo-to-hi - for slide and hybrid slide/fretted & behind-the-slide, even on a "Classical"/nylon-strung guitar. Beautiful Hawaiian/Texas Swing vibe! That might be cool for Lap-Steel, as well...
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#2610113 - 07/10/14 08:09 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
+1 on the 6th chord tuning. It's my favorite chord (although when I play it on guitar I include the b7 which makes it a 13th). To me it has always given me a steel guitar sound and is the same as a minor chord triad. I'm not that familiar with slide or steel guitars and have heard that many steel players tune to the 9th (which is my second favorite chord right behind the 7th).

I have a friend that plays slide guitar very well and he rarely plays minor chords. I'm wondering if the relative minor/major triads of the 6th chord is what allows the minor chords in the Sleep Walk tab video I posted, to be barred? I know you'll know the answer Caevan...

On the Rogue video you posted the guy uses a 6th chord and gets some sweet sounding steel guitar sound (i.e. pedal steel sound) which confirms the 6th chord sound that has been in my head for many years. I'm thinking he does a great job on the demo having only played lap steel for two weeks! Scotty Moore uses this chord a lot too, which is probably why it rang true with my ear as an old Elvis fan growing up learning to play guitar...also +1 on Hawaiian nylon strings using a slide. Many slide players have not considered playing slide on a nylon acoustic even though that's part of the history of slide guitar. They should give it a try as it sounds pretty cool to me...

Sleep Walk has always been one of my favorite songs to play and I've written my own version. I dig Brian Setzer's version. But, if you want that original sound, you've got to have a lap steel or a pedal steel to get it. I love the harmonics and will try giving your technique a try although I'm a hybrid picker and can't give up the pick LOL! cool


Edited by Larryz (07/10/14 08:17 AM)
Edit Reason: sp

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#2610157 - 07/10/14 10:22 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Larryz]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9376
Loc: Northern California
Hey Caevan, here's some lessons on C6 lap steel that takes in the chimes and answered my question on the major/minor concet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWsvjzPeyKk chimes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpInbqNLIAI major/minor concept

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGp9zzj3egA and just for kicks some C6 blues lead

Pretty cool stuff... cool


Edited by Larryz (07/10/14 10:25 AM)
Edit Reason: links

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#2610202 - 07/10/14 12:09 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Larryz]
CEB Offline
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Yes I play. I started with a lap steel.

One of the first things you need to focus on is memorizing your grips (what string combinations are used to play what chords) Thinking about them as barre (movable) chords might help.

Forget the about playing pedals for at least a month. Learn to how use slants.

Get a GOOD volume pedal a fast chromatic tuner. A Boss RV-5 reverb works well. Forget the rest of the effects on pedal steel unless you think Robert Randolph is cool.


Edited by CEB (07/11/14 07:21 AM)

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#2610214 - 07/10/14 12:59 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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Lap steel, either true lap steel or a strap-on like a Peavey Powerslide or a Melobar like Rusty Young used in Poco is a totally different vibe than slide guitar. Being able to dig in hard adds a different feel. All this light touch business is too wussy. LOL

Live I was using this Chinese Fender Tele thing for lap steel parts about 2 years on heavy stuff like Eric Church. If I was still in that band I would be all over stuff like Big Smo.

I've made a lot of money playing one finger guitar. LOL!






Edited by CEB (07/11/14 07:19 AM)

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#2610376 - 07/11/14 07:03 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: CEB]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
One of the first things you need to focus on is memorizing your grips (what string combinations are used to play what chords) Thinking about them barre (movable) chords might help.

Forget the about playing pedals for at least a month. Learn to how use slants.


In "regular"/"bottle-neck" slide-guitar playing, in Standard Tuning, I've had fun slanting the slide to play minor and Major 6ths on the 1st and 3rd strings, and 2nd and 4th strings, that function as either the 5th and minor or Major 3rd of "D-Shape" and "A-Shape" chord "fingerings", or "C-Shape", or "E-Shape"...

What's more, any of these can function as at least two different familiar sounding chords, depending entirely on what the root is considered to be at the moment. Consider "D-Shape", "C-Shape", "A-Shape", and "E-Shape" fingerings (based on common Open & 1st-Position fingerings and moveable barre-chord grips) that those 1st & 3rd and 2nd & 4th string pairings fit into, and their respective root-notes on lower strings. All this can be applied to Lap and Pedal Steel playing, and even when using various Open and Alternate Tunings, with a little figgerin'...

Two-note "chords" fit into a mix well, too, and can sound HUGE compared to four, five, and six note fingerings. Suss out two-note fingerings that supply the 3rd and 7th of various chords, as well, and find where you can use the slide or tone-bar straight as well as slanted to get 'em..

Originally Posted By: CEB
Get a GOOD volume pedal a fast chromatic tuner. A Boss RV-5 reverb works well. Forget the rest of the effect on pedal steel unless you think Robert Randolph is cool.


You can sometimes find these GREAT "Rockman" branded (Made in the Czech Republic years ago, nothing to do with Tom Scholz's Rockman line) active, optical volume pedals for CHEAP- due to the fact that they have oddball sized/shaped center-positive jacks for external power-supply use, and many have lost or damaged their original power-supplies.

I simply connected a battery-snap-connector-adapter and routed it out through the hole in the side where the non-standard jack mounts, with that taped-off and left loose inside. Problem solved, and I had a sweet optical volume pedal for ten bucks and the price of the battery-adapter, running off of my 1 Spot Power Supply's daisy-chain with my other 9v pedals. thu cool


While not cheap, Strymon's Flint tremolo and reverb pedal is AMAZINGLY cool! It has BEAUTIFUL classic/vintage reverb and tremolo effects, three flavors of each. cool thu I love LOVE love mine! HIGHLY recommended!


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#2613162 - 07/21/14 04:11 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: hurricane hugo]
hurricane hugo Offline
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dudes...pedal steel bass! grin

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#2613171 - 07/21/14 04:32 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: hurricane hugo]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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Loc: Northern California
Somehow, I can hear the sound tracks of the movies Southern Comfort and Jaws and maybe some Tarzan in the Jungle stuff, just by looking at that baby! cool

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#2613215 - 07/21/14 07:07 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: hurricane hugo]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: hurricane hugo
dudes...pedal steel bass! grin



W o w . . . . ! !

Imagine that plugged in to Tom Petersson's rig... !
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#2613278 - 07/22/14 06:12 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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If anybody wants to try playing slide on their standard acoustic, you can buy a little metal extender that sits over the nut, and raises the strings just enough, no mods, no drilling required. Here's one from Stew-Mac, that costs less than a set of strings;

Stew-Mac nut extender


Edited by Winston Psmith (07/22/14 06:13 AM)
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#2613317 - 07/22/14 09:19 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
If anybody wants to try playing slide on their standard acoustic, you can buy a little metal extender that sits over the nut, and raises the strings just enough, no mods, no drilling required. Here's one from Stew-Mac, that costs less than a set of strings;

Stew-Mac nut extender


I recently set-up a "vintage" (re: very old) cheap-o flat-top acoustic guitar for a friend who'd inherited it; it came with a cheap case, in which was also a cast over-the-nut extender and a book on playing Hawaiian style. I strung it up with a Martin Resonator polished nickel round-wound string-set for DOBRO/High-G Tuning, tuned G B D G B D, low-to-high, gauges 16 18 26 36 46 56 (high-to-low).
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#2613392 - 07/22/14 02:40 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
CEB Offline
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That is what I used on the black Chinese Tele I pictured. To do it right you you need to raise the beegeebees out of the saddles/bridge.


Edited by CEB (07/22/14 02:42 PM)

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#2613428 - 07/22/14 05:30 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: CEB]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Another vote for the Dunlop Lap Dawg -- though there are a few other nice ones too (and I have three different ones).

As for the instrument itself, they are hard to come by at the moment, and the used ones are pletiful but look in such disrepair that I'm too afraid to buy them. Some say Rickbacker was at least at one point one of the best, and those do show up frequently.

I started on the Rogue pictured above and got driven crazy by its intonation issues and poor pickup, but do have to admit it's a good way to test the waters and is great bang for buck.

What I did after that was buy the Gretsch Electromatic lap Steel. Great ergonomics and pretty good pickup; though not the best. I haven't had time with it lately, and do look at others now and then, but mostly just see poor condition used models by off-brands. Some boutique brands like Duesenberg make them too, but the specs seem suspicious to me (i.e. more about eye candy than functionality and good sound).

A lap steel isn't really a substitute for a pedal steel, but most of us will never have the time to even get semi-competent on a pedal steel so it's a worthwhile venture. I also bought a Gretsch acoustic resonator guitar; square vs. round so that it's meant for lap playing, Hawai'ian style. I bought their "high end" model but it's a budget deal and I might splurge on an upgrade to a nice one from Guild or someone else at some point. Totally different sound and purpose to an electric lap steel in my mind though. Completely unique and very musical. Lots of fun!
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#2613430 - 07/22/14 05:31 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I haven't had a chance to listen to an audio demo of that pedal steel bass announced at Summer NAMM yet but am very curious. It seems a strange concept since most serious pedal steel players have instruments with two or three courses, one of which I would think has an extended low end range.

I guess the idea is to split the duties and have a dedicated bass player who is capturing the low end with that type of sound vs. another type of bass instrument.
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#2613754 - 07/23/14 06:05 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Mark Schmieder]
picker Offline
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Taking up lap steel was the most fun I'd had on guitar in years. I highly recommend it.
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#2614033 - 07/24/14 03:30 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: picker]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
For anyone who lives in the SF Bay Area, I just looked at Gryphon Stringed Instruments' web site last night (Palo Alto) and they have a HUGE number of lap steels at the moment. Mostly used/vintage, but several look quite interesting and to be good buys; including a 1957 Fender model.
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Eugenio Upright, Viking Bari, Select Strat, Select Tele, LP 57 Gold Top
Yamaha WX5, Hammond XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12

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#2614171 - 07/25/14 06:57 AM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Mark Schmieder]
CEB Offline
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A freind of mine got a Rogue. It is junk. Some Rogue stuff like their pedals are good buys but that lap steel IMO is not good. The parts are junk and it has no balls.


Spend a little extra and get a Peavey Powerslide or even a Recording King. Or there is the Gretsch for about $350.

The Peavey is a really cool lap steel. It reminds me of the old Melobar. A decent pickup good tuners and stable bridge. It comes with a gig bag and bar for $199. I should pick one up while I still can. There is a red one at the local dealer.



Gypsy Jams at 2:30


Edited by CEB (07/25/14 07:07 AM)

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#2614293 - 07/25/14 01:58 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: CEB]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 7900
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Good to hear about that Peavey; I was curious but didn't find out about that model until I'd already bought the Gretsch (which I found for $250, but then had to spend $50 on a bag).

I look forward to listening to those demos a bit later. I didn't like the Duessenberg demos that I heard but the Peavey seems a more interesting model.
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Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass
Eugenio Upright, Viking Bari, Select Strat, Select Tele, LP 57 Gold Top
Yamaha WX5, Hammond XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12

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#2614318 - 07/25/14 02:44 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: Mark Schmieder]
CEB Offline
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Randy Kohrs plays the heck of of Dussenbergs. The integrate string benders with their lap steel. They look nice but I have never played one. I think your Gretsch is a better guitar that the Peavey. But the Peavey is neat if you want something like the old Melobar.

Pat Severs from Pirates of the Mississippi played what looked like a Melobar through a Marshall when I saw them on the Walk the Plank tour. That was an inspiring moment for me.

I like Randy Kohrs a lot. He has a couple of solos on this jam. He is playing one of his Dusenbergs.

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#2614399 - 07/25/14 10:13 PM Re: lap steel, pedal steel, et al [Re: CEB]
Scott Fraser Offline
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I just got home from a David Lindley free concert in the park in Pasadena, & all I can say is WOW! That some kind of steel. Dude seriously rocks the Weissenborn.
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