garnermike Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The background (my understanding only, and I apologize if y'all know this or if someone's already posted on it): GrooveTubes developed their SFX technology for keyboard stereo amping, selling the SFX 100 and SpaceStation products. Then Fender bought out their technology, using it in their SFX acoustasonic guitar amps, but not doing anything keyboard amp-wise----except when, in a special deal with sweetwater.com back in 2010, they sold off a last supply of 100 SpaceStations. I bought one of those, and it's been a great keyboard amp, especially loud and very effective in delivering rotary effects. Small, 35 pounds, and built to last (I have used it in over 350 gigs, and it's never had a single issue). If you do a search on the KBC, you'll see I'm not alone in liking it. To the point: I opened my new sweetwater.com catalog, and low and behold, a new company called Center Point Stereo (centerpointstereo.com) is now selling a updated SpaceStation version through sweetwater.com. It looks identical to what I own, although it has a few more tweeking dials. I went to that company's website and the product's Fender pedigree is duly noted. I called Sweetwater, and they do not have these amps in yet, nor have their staff received their tech briefing on it yet. There is no product ad on their website yet, just in the paper catalog. The price is twice ($599) what I paid in 2010. I don't need another, but knowing what I now do about the amp (again if it's the same thing), I'd opine that it's well worth the price. Quote KB: Hammond SK1 Bass KB: Yamaha MX49 KB Amps: CPS SS3, linked to TurboSound IP300 Bass KB amp: Fender Rumble 500 combo www.mikemickxer.com www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Very interested, thanks Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Thanks for the heads-up. I wonder if the low-end frequency response is improved over the original GT Spacestations. I have the SFX100 model with the mic line in, sub line out, and reverb. The stereo field effect is really good but IMO it could use more low end so that one doesn't have to bring a separate sub when playing at moderate to loud volumes. IMO it would also be useful if the new "Spacestation" had a normal mono line or stereo lines out for running a signal to FOH. Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Never got the appeal of these. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I heard a prototype of the new one at NAMM. I can confirm that the new one sounds remarkably better than the original. The appeal is that the sound field is quite remarkable and while I don't know the technical term for it, maybe it is omnidirectional?? Unlike traditional speakers which are directional, and pairs of speakers which only provide stereo for those being in the "sweet spot". This thing fills a room in a way that a leslie speaker does but this speaker can be used for just about anything. They claim very even sound throughout an entire room. It's quite impressive. Quote -Mike Martin Casio Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 ...............The appeal is that the sound field is quite remarkable and while I don't know the technical term for it, maybe it is omnidirectional?? Unlike traditional speakers which are directional, and pairs of speakers which only provide stereo for those being in the "sweet spot". ........... Line Array Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Never got the appeal of these. Sounded great for organ. The sound is thrown outside the box, so whatever Leslie sim you used sounded more authentic, you got much more a sense of real motion, rather than hearing a kind of "recording" of a leslie effect coming out of a box. It did not sound good for piano, though. I'll be curious to see if the new one does any better. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 My litmus test would be hearing a Rhodes sound with stereo vibrato. I had recently bought (and sold,) a Lucas Nano 300, cause of its small size. The stereo vibrato was not effective and I assume it was due to the sub woofer getting both signals and only the small satellite speakers to offer the stereo image. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 ...............The appeal is that the sound field is quite remarkable and while I don't know the technical term for it, maybe it is omnidirectional?? Unlike traditional speakers which are directional, and pairs of speakers which only provide stereo for those being in the "sweet spot". ........... Line Array A line array is a set of speakers mounted in a line and fed in phase. I believe the Space Station uses a mid/side configuration. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I had one that I picked up when they were blowing them out. For me, it was only good at one thing -- to be used with a leslie sim -- but for that, it was very good. Bass response is weak, so I always ran a sub out. In that configuration, I thought it was remarkably good at simulating how sound feels like its being thrown around a room from a leslie. If I was still doing those kinds of gigs, I would still be using it, no question. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The web site shows a MAP of $595, which makes it more than a toy. I'm thinking of it as a potential "enhancer" to my existing amplification: richer Leslie effects, more convincing chorus and pans for my EPs, etc. Doesn't look like it would do well for APs, nor do well standalone for most situations -- unless it was a very small venue, and even then ... Looks like they're having their challenges getting it into production and into the channel -- no evidence of it on the Sweetwater site, or anywhere else. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Watch that vid ... [video:youtube] It seems they took the old idea but rebuild the cab that way it´s very improved over the old mkI and mkII Spacestations. The front speaker is dual concentric w/ 1" midrange horn, the driver mounted to the rear of the speaker and woofer and horndriver now using dedicated magnets and amplifiers as well. In addition there´s the HF tweeter and the separately powered side speaker. It´s now a tri-amp stereo system, 100W low/center, 40W mid and 40W HF,- 100W side/full range. That´s more power and control than the SSmkII offered. I think it´s very promising as a keyboard monitor box and because you now can adjust the mid- and hi-level to your taste and have control over the stereo width, it might work for digital stage pianos and synths too. For leslie sims it seems to be a no-brainer. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMEGZ Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 T GrooveTubes developed their SFX technology for keyboard stereo amping, selling the SFX 100 and SpaceStation products. Then Fender bought out their technology, using it in their SFX acoustasonic guitar amps, but not doing anything keyboard amp-wise---- Fender did have a keyboard amp http://www.graceworksmusic.com/Fender%20Keyboard%20200%20SFX.htm http://www.graceworksmusic.com/images/Fender%20SFX-Keyboard.jpg Quote SpaceStation V3, MoxF6,PX5S,Hammond-SK2,Artis7,Stage2-73, KronosX-73,MS Pro145,Ventilator,OB DB1,Lester K Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'm assuming with only a couple hundred watts or so available, these are only for quiet gigs, correct? Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'm assuming with only a couple hundred watts or so available, these are only for quiet gigs, correct? I´d use it only for me, not for the audience,- and preferable w/ a small active sub-woofer in addition for some occasions. I don´t need it loud in my rig, it runs thru stage monitor system and PA anyway. As a comparison, when I go w/ my Bryston 3B amp (120W into 8Ohms/ 200W into 4Ohms) and use 2 passive speakers, there are also not more watts in the ballpark, but it´s LOUD and clear. When I used Fender tube amps in the past,- these delivered 100W and it was loud enough for me. These 1000W digital class D amplification build into small plastic speakers don´t impress me too much. 1000W peak power are possibly also not more than 250W in real and depending on measurement method. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnermike Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Mate What Mike said. I've tried several set-ups with my SK1, including: 1. using two Traynor K1s set up in their so-called stereo linking arrangement; 2. two Motion Sound KT-80s, one for left out and the other for right out; and 3. the SpaceStation, with the subwoofer line out (for more bottom end) to either the Traynor K1, the MS KT-80, or a small bass amp. My room-filling and rotary effect sound with the SpaceStation is vastly better. Quote KB: Hammond SK1 Bass KB: Yamaha MX49 KB Amps: CPS SS3, linked to TurboSound IP300 Bass KB amp: Fender Rumble 500 combo www.mikemickxer.com www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garnermike Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Mate Can't speak for this new CPS unit, but my Fender/GrooveTubes-made unit is unbelievably loud. I've never gone over midpoint on volume. The mid and high frequencies cut through things like no other kb amp I've ever played through with generally similar wattage rating (about a dozen different brands) Mine's rated at 100w. Here's the specs on the older version that I have (scroll down on the page): http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SFXSSmkII Quote KB: Hammond SK1 Bass KB: Yamaha MX49 KB Amps: CPS SS3, linked to TurboSound IP300 Bass KB amp: Fender Rumble 500 combo www.mikemickxer.com www.reverbnation.com/mikemickxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Gould Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Fender did have a keyboard amp http://www.graceworksmusic.com/Fender%20Keyboard%20200%20SFX.htm http://www.graceworksmusic.com/images/Fender%20SFX-Keyboard.jpg Yep - I bought one when it first came out, and I'm still using it today. It's plenty loud for medium-sized bar gigs. I use a MotionSound Pro3 on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 These 1000W digital class D amplification build into small plastic speakers don´t impress me too much. 1000W peak power are possibly also not more than 250W in real and depending on measurement method. All these low cost high power amps we're seeing aren't what they seem. The typical "1000 watt" amp is a biamped system with 500 watts to the LF driver and 500 watts to the HD driver, because it is cost effective to manufacture it that way. But in reality, that 500 watt amp driving the HF component probably does nothing more than a 50 watt amp would. Also, wattage means nothing without knowing the efficiency of the speakers. 100 watts can be as loud as 400 watts if it's being use to drive a speaker that is 6 dB more efficient. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 All these low cost high power amps we're seeing aren't what they seem. The typical "1000 watt" amp is a biamped system with 500 watts to the LF driver and 500 watts to the HD driver, because it is cost effective to manufacture it that way. But in reality, that 500 watt amp driving the HF component probably does nothing more than a 50 watt amp would. Also, wattage means nothing without knowing the efficiency of the speakers. 100 watts can be as loud as 400 watts if it's being use to drive a speaker that is 6 dB more efficient. That´s all true, but I meant I don´t trust these measurement methods of the manufacturers at all. These changed over the decades too much, last but not least to fool the customers. You read watts defined of peak-power, continuous program, average, RMS, AES and sine wave power. When you read 1000W RMS / 2000W Peak (Mackie DLM p.ex.) that´s unbelievable when you know the power input for such system is "only" 250Watts. I simply don´t believe you can make 4x the RMS power from 250W current. Class D technology isn´t a wondermachine. You can amplify power. Electrical voltage and electrical current can be amplified,- but not that much IMO. The SpaceStation v3 is more realistic. It takes 1.5 amperes @230V which is 345W input to produce 280W AES (100W woofer/ 40W midrange/ 40W supertweeter/ 100W side-speaker full range). I´ve rarely seen an amp delivering more power than it takes. Anyway, I´m interested in a single cab stereo system for practising and rehearsals as well as monitoring my keys on gigs and if it´s loud enough for ME,- that´s o.k.. I had large backline rigs in the 70s and 80s,- since the 90s and even when performing in large locations or outdoor,- I always used very small monitor speaker/amp-systems and it always worked. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Bump. I've been in touch with Aspen and asked for information on what a V.3 would do to a digital acoustic piano sample. Here's the reply, and ahem "short" demo. "Regarding a good piano demo, funny you should ask. Heres a video we did with the legendary synth player Michael Boddicker, finished just last week. Michael also plays a mean piano and talks about that in this video...be sure you have a decent stereo system or earphones on to hear the recording, which is an actual room recording of the CPS V.3 speaker...it sounds lik a direct recording, but it is live!" [video:youtube] Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simajanpa Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I had an SFX200 for several years. It was pretty loud and decent sounding. It also had stereo DIs built in so if you needed to go to the FOH it was there. Had three channels and Ok digital effects. Front facing 12" with a small Piezo tweeter and a side firing 10" speaker. Two 80w amps if I remember correctly. A little on the heavy side, but a nice all in one unit. But two EV ZLX12Ps are lighter and sound way better. Paul GrooveTubes developed their SFX technology for keyboard stereo amping, selling the SFX 100 and SpaceStation products. Then Fender bought out their technology, using it in their SFX acoustasonic guitar amps, but not doing anything keyboard amp-wise---- Fender did have a keyboard amp http://www.graceworksmusic.com/Fender%20Keyboard%20200%20SFX.htm http://www.graceworksmusic.com/images/Fender%20SFX-Keyboard.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I wrote Aspen cause I want to hear what a Rhodes with stereo vibrato sounds like through amp. He wrote me back and thought it was a great idea, so I'm anxiously waiting. I also have a friend who was able to recreate the same technology and it's not the same experience as the sweet spot of stereo, but it does create a cool sound, where ever you listen from. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I had an SFX200 for several years...A little on the heavy side, but a nice all in one unit. But two EV ZLX12Ps are lighter and sound way better. The thing about the Spacestation--and they allude to this in the video--is that it creates a large spacious soundfield that is not particularly location specific. Using a pair of speakers for stereo don't generally yield a good stereo soundfield except for people who are near the sweet spot. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMEGZ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I wonder if the subwoofer out is a true lo pass or is it full range like a line out for FOH Quote SpaceStation V3, MoxF6,PX5S,Hammond-SK2,Artis7,Stage2-73, KronosX-73,MS Pro145,Ventilator,OB DB1,Lester K Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I wonder if the subwoofer out is a true lo pass or is it full range like a line out for FOH That´s what I wonder too and I also wonder why they didn´t make the stereo inputs BALANCED ... In fact, it would be cool to have the sub-out switchable between full-range and, let´s say, 125Hz LP (for subs not offering a x-over). With a subwoofer offering it´s own passive frequency deviding network, you could use that output fullrange to PA or a recording facility because most (if not all) subs offer a pass-thru connector. When you don´t want a sub, you want that output fullrange anyway. And, when I want to connect my keyboardmixer to that cab,- balanced line inputs would be a professional feature IMO. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredeye Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I have a MkII, though we've gone all IEMs and don't use it anymore. The sub-out is full spectrum; I used it to go to FOH through a DI. On stage, nothing could sound better for Leslie except a real rotating horn. It does have weak bass, but I heard bass from the PA that I'm always behind. It has mid-range boost that makes APs sound "boxy" if you don't EQ for that. Great, light speaker that never failed me for years. Quote Kurzweil PC4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Using a pair of speakers for stereo don't generally yield a good stereo soundfield except for people who are near the sweet spot. True, but if you're not interested in accuracy of image, there are a lot of options that work surprisingly well. For playing commercial CDs, you generally want an accurate image, so that stuff the engineer put on the left is on the left, etc. But for the kinds of effects that I use (and that most of us use) on keyboards, image accuracy isn't as important as richness. For example, the image of a Leslie speaker is way different depending on where you put it in a room, but many different locations can all sound great. We're not trying to recreate one specific thing, but rather, the lovely spread and liveliness of the beast. A Leslie sounds better in a nice live room than in a controlled sound studio with minimized reflections! One of my favorite setups for some locations is one speaker on the floor, vertical, facing front, and enough behind me that I can hear it. The other pointed up and bouncing off a back or side wall, and often on top of the other one (especially when space is tight). This works great for Leslie sim, and also sounds remarkably good for stereo piano or Rhodes stereo vibrato -- though admittedly, the nature of the image varies dramatically around the venue. It spreads the sound and the image nicely in the stage too. And in a venue where I'm sending to FOH, it doesn't interfere in a negative way with the mains (though most of these venues have stages big enough that I don't usually use this particular trick.) Another one I used to use, where I was right against a brick wall on one side of the stage, was to put one speaker on a barstool behind me and another in front of the snare/hihat, both vertical. I was up front enough that I got nice image from the far one, and the front of the audience got a nice image too. Biggest problem was it was a jam and a lot of guitarists would stand aside their amp and right in front of my speaker, or even sit on it. Morons. Regardless, I get your point about the SpaceStation. With a pair of speakers, you have to work at it. With the SS, it just happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I wonder if the subwoofer out is a true lo pass or is it full range like a line out for FOH That´s what I wonder too and I also wonder why they didn´t make the stereo inputs BALANCED ... In fact, it would be cool to have the sub-out switchable between full-range and, let´s say, 125Hz LP (for subs not offering a x-over). With a subwoofer offering it´s own passive frequency deviding network, you could use that output fullrange to PA or a recording facility because most (if not all) subs offer a pass-thru connector. When you don´t want a sub, you want that output fullrange anyway. And, when I want to connect my keyboardmixer to that cab,- balanced line inputs would be a professional feature IMO. A.C. Depending on your sub, you could run L/R outs of your mixer to the sub, then take the high pass outs of the sub and feed those into the SpaceStation. That way you'd get the crossover built into the sub instead of running in reverse. Quote Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The sub-out is full spectrum; I used it to go to FOH through a DI. Thx, full spectrum is cool and much better than a pre-defined x-over frequency. Which connector ? TS or TRS ? Is it stereo-unbalanced like the inputs ? Or mono-unbalanced ? A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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