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Holy left foot!!! #2594508 05/05/14 01:29 PM
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Mogut Offline OP
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If you didnt know what the title meant before you clicked it, you'll know now!!!!



-Greg
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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Mogut] #2594511 05/05/14 01:35 PM
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Yep, Barbara D.'s feet are legendary for a Hammond player.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

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So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: CEB] #2594513 05/05/14 01:39 PM
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For swing and ballads this string bass midi sound and playing is just fine. She is incredibly fast. But for groovy stuff, funk and so on there's just nothing better than left hand bass coupled with left foot toe tapping and accents, IMHO.


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Simon98] #2594520 05/05/14 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Simon98
For swing and ballads this string bass midi sound and playing is just fine. She is incredibly fast. But for groovy stuff, funk and so on there's just nothing better than left hand bass coupled with left foot toe tapping and accents, IMHO.


Agree 100%.

chas


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: cgiles] #2594539 05/05/14 03:14 PM
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and then there's Chester Thompson..... smile

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: retrokeys] #2594570 05/05/14 05:15 PM
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Yes, I've seen several of her videos. Her left foot is faster than my left hand. Hmm, something about how I wrote that seems x-rated.


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Delaware Dave] #2594666 05/06/14 02:46 AM
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My favorite Dutch Hammond player (Carlo de Wijs) also has killer feet, in my opinion. He has a modded Hammond (it sends midi) which allows him to play his bass through a Minimoog. He really does some funky stuff with that. Can not find a lot of good videos, but here are two:







Last edited by RudyS; 05/06/14 08:04 AM. Reason: forgot to mention his name

Rudy

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: RudyS] #2594679 05/06/14 07:13 AM
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Dennerlein is really impressive, but imo what she does on this video is not very tasty. The dutch guy on the contrary brings something new the table with his moog bass pedals. They both kill as fas as technique goes, i just dont like Dennerlein's sound approach here.

Last edited by yannis D; 05/06/14 07:13 AM.

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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: yannis D] #2594699 05/06/14 08:32 AM
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For me, Dennerlein's footwork is more of a visual treat than an audio one. That's probably why I don't have a single tune of hers in my (extensive) collection of organ-group records.

chas


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: cgiles] #2594701 05/06/14 08:56 AM
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Umm... Any Classically trained organist could do that with half the effort- they'd use both feet, and both the heels and toes.

It's visually exciting, as stated above, but a lot of wasted effort.

..Joe


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: joegerardi] #2594716 05/06/14 10:57 AM
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wow, bunch of player haters heh grin


-Greg
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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Mogut] #2594754 05/06/14 12:22 PM
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I don't remember my Hammond having piano and vibraphone patches like hers... I must have been doing it wrong.


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Wastrel] #2594761 05/06/14 12:49 PM
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Never liked her Midi sounds either... Even though she was the organ player that turned me on to jazz and blues when I was 6 or 7, I agree with all the posts here.

Nevertheless, ther are some great recordings of hers that I really love.

Btw, Carlo De Wijs is a really great player as mentioned before, and a very nice personality.


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Mogut] #2594768 05/06/14 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Greg Gallant
wow, bunch of player haters heh grin


I think you exaggerate a bit here. Not playing the devil's advocate, but there is no hate here. She is technically impeccable, but her sound and style does not resonate with me.

Last edited by yannis D; 05/06/14 07:42 PM.

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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: yannis D] #2594777 05/06/14 01:27 PM
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Saw her in concert a year ago and had rather high expectations.

Great band, especially NY drummer Drori Mondlak, but... A good concert, but not more than that. No soulful vibes...

Last edited by Simon98; 05/06/14 01:27 PM.

HX3 hammond clone (custom built, B3 specs), Hammond E100 (repair & heavy modding in progress), Nord C2, Leslie 245, Yamaha CP5 and much more...
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Wastrel] #2594782 05/06/14 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Wastrel
I don't remember my Hammond having piano and vibraphone patches like hers... I must have been doing it wrong.


It is a custom MIDI mod done for her by someone at Hohner. The thing that surprised me was she came from a Hammond background. I expected her to be from a classical background with those feet. But she got into classical organ later. I liked her classical stuff better than her jazz stuff. Being fast and accurate on Hammond pedals is hard. The Hammond style and organ hardware is not designed for it.

This is different. I don't really like blues stuff being played on Threater ordgan registrers though.

Last edited by CEB; 05/06/14 01:44 PM.

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"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: CEB] #2594812 05/06/14 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
I don't really like blues stuff being played on Threater ordgan registrers though.


I agree on that!


Rudy

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: RudyS] #2594918 05/06/14 11:29 PM
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Babsie's chops and techniques are a wonder to behold, but I concur with the opine that the prowess of perfection with which she plays can leave one's soul hungry for more feel. This coming from a hack that ever so rarely gets a crusty crumb of a lick thrown out of my cauldron of slop soup.

[/i]edit[i]: just finished listening to OP's link...perhaps I'm just jealous of her precision...WOW!


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: brenner13] #2594988 05/07/14 09:24 AM
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We're not haters, we've just seen (and played) things like this in our lives:

VID

..Joe


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Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Mogut] #2595135 05/07/14 07:23 PM
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The video is cut short, but there is some nice foot work here (there is a glimpse around 1:00 and the start of a bass solo at 4:14).

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Paul Harrison] #2595404 05/08/14 08:41 PM
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Quick Dennerlin story. She was coming into NYC for a show and she traveled with her MIdi pedal system. Put it under whatever B3 they gave her and rocked on. Customs at the airport couldn't figure out what it was in the road cases and gave her a very hard time. I understand she did make the concert but missed the soundcheck because of the delay.
I myself used a Nova IV Bass unit from Chicago for my pedals and put them thru a serperate volume controlled output to an Ampeg V4B head and twin 15" cabinet with my Leslie on top.
Ahh ---the good old days !
Also took a semester of classical organ in college to get both feet working but never did both later on, one was enough.
Still fool around with my PK5's under my Roland BK9

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: joegerardi] #2595425 05/08/14 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Umm... Any Classically trained organist could do that with half the effort- they'd use both feet, and both the heels and toes.

It's visually exciting, as stated above, but a lot of wasted effort.

..Joe


Wasted effort? Not at all--she's doing that so she can keep her other foot on the expression pedal, as you will see in this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYP7Mxss3_U

EDITED TO ADD:

She does take a two-footed "ROMpler bass" solo in this vid--apparently her B3 has been modified to be a MIDI controller, as she also plays a "ROMpler vibe" sound on the upper manual in the video at one point...

Last edited by ashevillecabbie; 05/08/14 11:36 PM.
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: CEB] #2595436 05/09/14 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: CEB
Yep, Barbara D.'s feet are legendary for a Hammond player.

the precision of her left foot is among the best ever. I agree with the comments about playing left hand bass and tapping with the left foot, but really these are completly different styles.


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: ashevillecabbie] #2595471 05/09/14 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: ashevillecabbie
Wasted effort? Not at all--she's doing that so she can keep her other foot on the expression pedal, as you will see in this video :


Is there really that much need for volume swells? Are they really happen so often that the right foot can't be used for playing?

Again, a classically-trained organist plays the same thing, and still has to work volume, like any other musician.

Look, I love adding a little sizzle to the performance same as the next guy, but that just looks plain tiring. To me, it's akin to playing Beethoven or Wakeman and limiting yourself to 4 fingers on each hand, just so that you can show you can do it.

Probably because I was always taught to practice hard, perform easy.

..Joe


Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: joegerardi] #2595487 05/09/14 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Is there really that much need for volume swells? Are they really happen so often that the right foot can't be used for playing?

In short, yes. Jazz organ style of playing is way different than classical.

From Wikipedia:
The style of popular organ music of the 20th and 21st centuries such as jazz is highly dynamic and requires constant use of the expression pedal in a fashion very different from that of classical organ literature. This tendency increased with the arrival of spinet organs and modern synthesizers, which offset the expression pedal and reduced the size of the pedalboard. These changes allowed the organist to keep the right foot constantly on the expression pedal, while playing the pedalboard with only the left foot. This ability encouraged organists to operate the expression pedal more often during playing. To take advantage of this style of playing, some expression pedals on modern electronic organs are equipped with toe switches, which allow the organist to make quick registration changes without removing the foot from the pedal.

Expression pedals may be non-linear in response, meaning that slight pressure changes may cause a greater proportional change in volume than a more complete depression. In this regard, each organ tends to be rather distinct.


Here's a visual demonstration from KC's own Jim Alfredson

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: joegerardi] #2595488 05/09/14 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Is there really that much need for volume swells?


Hammond players, I think, tend to ride the expression pedal much more than classical players. Barbara sure is doing that in the vid.

Plus, I gotta say, it doesn't look like it's really a whole lot of effort for her. That bass line is just quarter notes, after all... smile

Last edited by ashevillecabbie; 05/09/14 09:23 AM.
Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: joegerardi] #2595515 05/09/14 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Is there really that much need for volume swells? Are they really happen so often that the right foot can't be used for playing?


Yes, use of the expression pedal for dynamics is an important element of modern organ technique, (particularly for jazz, less so for rock and blues) because the organ keyboard is not touch sensitive. What jazz pianists do by hitting the keys harder and softer, jazz organists do by moving the expression pedal back and forth (but not merely "pumping" it rhythmically).

Most jazz organists either don't play bass or play bass with their left hand or left foot alone, which covers enough range most of the time, but to do a nimble, full-range solo on the pedals requires temporarily parking the expression pedal.

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: Paul Harrison] #2595541 05/09/14 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Umm... Any Classically trained organist could do that with half the effort- they'd use both feet, and both the heels and toes.

I really don't see the point of comparing a jazz musician's technique to a classical musician's. I mean if we want to go down that road, any video that gets posted here of a non-classical music performance is open to "Meh - that's easy if you are classically trained... and they could do it better!"

Look, I totally understand if the music isn't your cup of tea, but to dismiss a great performance because a classically trained organist can do it with both feet, heels, toes and nails, etc. etc. is kind of silly. Just my humble opinion, of course.

Re: Holy left foot!!! [Re: joegerardi] #2595543 05/09/14 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Originally Posted By: ashevillecabbie
Wasted effort? Not at all--she's doing that so she can keep her other foot on the expression pedal, as you will see in this video :


Is there really that much need for volume swells? Are they really happen so often that the right foot can't be used for playing?

Again, a classically-trained organist plays the same thing, and still has to work volume, like any other musician.

Look, I love adding a little sizzle to the performance same as the next guy, but that just looks plain tiring. To me, it's akin to playing Beethoven or Wakeman and limiting yourself to 4 fingers on each hand, just so that you can show you can do it.

Probably because I was always taught to practice hard, perform easy.

..Joe


Hammond players ride the gas pedal. That is how it is done. That is what makes pedaling on a Hammond limited. Also with the exception of organs like the RT's Hammonds are not built for pedaling.

What I was taught on classical organ is you pedal with both feet, knees together and centralized as possible. This maintains your point of reference so you don't have to look down. You only go to swell pedals when you must. (PS- I am a novice.... didn't do classical organ very long.)

Last edited by CEB; 05/09/14 01:10 PM.

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So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

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