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#2922484 - 04/20/18 07:22 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: dodonnell]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: dodonnell
Guitar Center is just another in a long line of retailers destroyed by leveraged buyouts, which cripple their acquired businesses competitively, limit growth and cut jobs without reinvesting the savings, all without even generating good returns for their investors.

Duane


thats half the story. The high cost strip mall store approach and a sales strategy based on the 70/80's doomed both TRU and GC.

An operation can handle large debt if they have low cost + strong cash flow.
Plenty of examples where LBO's worked successfully. Another requirement is that
its best for the co to stay private, stay out of the microscopic stock market
_________________________
Innovation is never a single event. It is a long process of discovery, engineering, and transformation.
My Soundcloud with many originals:
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KC Island
#2922485 - 04/20/18 07:25 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: The Real MC]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Mills Dude
I've known Jon Haber who owns Alto Music, a local NY area retailer, since he was working at the original store as a teenager. He has a passion for the industry so he's invested in the success of his stores. Perhaps the death of GC allows opportunity for smaller players like him to get back in the game.


I've always preferred to patronize small business so they will definitely get my business.


MC Sound source is changing hands. I think the owner is selling part of it to the guy Chuck. I hope they keep their keyboard inventory.
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


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#2922489 - 04/20/18 07:59 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Mills Dude]
The Real MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 5265
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Mills Dude
When the company dies, sell off the assets for a profit.


GC has been hoarding vintage 50s sunburst guitars and others such as Clapton's "Blackie" Strat. Pretty profitable "assets" they are sitting on.

It is very rare that the corporate investment paradigm is successful in the musical instrument industry. The publically traded entity depends on long term growth for earning profits. That's hard to maintain in the music world. Online commerce is hardly the only factor. "Flavor of the month" often kills an investment - CBS/Fender and Norlin/Gibson fell out of favor during the "superstrat" era of LA heavy metal. The guitar market is experiencing a saturated market - way too much supply and decreasing demand. A better mousetrap is invented and kills prevailing technologies - the DX7. Those are hard to predict.

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#2922490 - 04/20/18 08:01 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Outkaster]
The Real MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 5265
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Mills Dude
I've known Jon Haber who owns Alto Music, a local NY area retailer, since he was working at the original store as a teenager. He has a passion for the industry so he's invested in the success of his stores. Perhaps the death of GC allows opportunity for smaller players like him to get back in the game.


I've always preferred to patronize small business so they will definitely get my business.


MC Sound source is changing hands. I think the owner is selling part of it to the guy Chuck. I hope they keep their keyboard inventory.


Interesting. I hope they don't become a DJ only store.

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#2922497 - 04/20/18 08:34 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: The Real MC]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Rochester, NY
I don't think so but they rearranged the store around. The new keyboard guy seems fairly knowledgeable but hasn't gigged a lot so he really can't relates to us.

Sound Source
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


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#2922579 - 04/20/18 01:42 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: The Real MC]
Jazzmammal Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 1897
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Interesting. I hope they don't become a DJ only store.


Just got this email an hour ago from Sam Ash:

Come join us at Sam Ash Music to check out some great DJs from all over Southern California spinning new music, classics, and cutting up the turntables!

The International DJ Cafe IE Chapter DJs are here to show off their skills and give tips about gear, getting gigs, and where to find the hottest music!

Check out the newest and most wanted gear with special promotions around the store during the event.

Win FREE gear with raffle drawings and enjoy some great music!

Sunday, April 22nd | 3:30 - 7:30 PM
Sam Ash Music Store
449 Mills Circle
ONTARIO


Ontario is about 50 miles east of LA. Of course this came with some high impact graphics. 3 or 4 years ago my local SA store started converting most of the keyboard section to a DJ booth sitting on a small riser surrounded by different kinds of DJ gear. The keyboard section is a third of what it was.

Bob

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#2922582 - 04/20/18 01:58 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Jazzmammal]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7039
Loc: S. Ca. USA
JazzMammal
It serves us right.. DJ's taking over .
As I keep saying, I see things from many perspectives.. Club owners, musician, crowd, to name the most local.
The crowds are uneducated and are ruled by women's tastes. Dancing is a high priority for women.

when musicians gave away their sounds to tech... it was the beginning of this precipitous fall of the performing musician.
Music became cheapened by muzak.. then DJ's. DJ's have an often better groove for dance than all but the best bands. and are usually cheaper, though that has changed too.
DJ's were using technology of recorded music, music "we" gave away so enthusiastically, to those less musical beings, the DJ and radio heads, to disenfranchise us as performers.
Now music is cheapened beyond recognition. Musicians are a dime a dozen.
Add to this cacophony, the so called ableton crew, and it goes away from real music even further. You modernists will mock this.. ask me if I care.
My narrative is not perfect... but it has truth in it.
Maybe when 99.9% of musicians can no longer perform.. maybe then, supply and demand fueled by the females, will bring music back into a position we enjoyed in the past?


Edited by I-missRichardTee (04/20/18 02:04 PM)
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2922583 - 04/20/18 02:15 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
The Real MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 5265
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
JazzMammal
It serves us right.. DJ's taking over .
As I keep saying, I see things from many perspectives.. Club owners, musician, crowd, to name the most local.
The crowds are uneducated and are ruled by women's tastes. Dancing is a high priority for women.

when musicians gave away their sounds to tech... it was the beginning of this precipitous fall of the performing musician.
Music became cheapened by muzak.. then DJ's. DJ's have an often better groove for dance than all but the best bands. and are usually cheaper, though that has changed too.
DJ's were using technology of recorded music, music "we" gave away so enthusiastically, to those less musical beings, the DJ and radio heads, to disenfranchise us as performers.
Now music is cheapened beyond recognition. Musicians are a dime a dozen.
Add to this cacophony, the so called ableton crew, and it goes away from real music even further. You modernists will mock this.. ask me if I care.
My narrative is not perfect... but it has truth in it.
Maybe when 99.9% of musicians can no longer perform.. maybe then, supply and demand fueled by the females, will bring music back into a position we enjoyed in the past?


You're not wrong.

Women are the dominant consumer. Musicians are too damn proud and/or embarrassed to play the tired and/or goofy songs that women want to hear - Mustang Sally, Hot Hot Hot, Thriller, Electric Slide, Old Time RnR... yeah roll your eyes.

Too many musicians only want to perform the songs that satisfy themselves and ignore their audience.

It's Economics 101 people - if you ignore your customers' needs, they will seek their needs elsewhere. That's where DJs are filling the gap.

As more DJs fulfill the customers' needs, the performing musician will become more displaced.

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#2922589 - 04/20/18 02:33 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: The Real MC]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7039
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
JazzMammal
It serves us right.. DJ's taking over .
As I keep saying, I see things from many perspectives.. Club owners, musician, crowd, to name the most local.
The crowds are uneducated and are ruled by women's tastes. Dancing is a high priority for women.

when musicians gave away their sounds to tech... it was the beginning of this precipitous fall of the performing musician.
Music became cheapened by muzak.. then DJ's. DJ's have an often better groove for dance than all but the best bands. and are usually cheaper, though that has changed too.
DJ's were using technology of recorded music, music "we" gave away so enthusiastically, to those less musical beings, the DJ and radio heads, to disenfranchise us as performers.
Now music is cheapened beyond recognition. Musicians are a dime a dozen.
Add to this cacophony, the so called ableton crew, and it goes away from real music even further. You modernists will mock this.. ask me if I care.
My narrative is not perfect... but it has truth in it.
Maybe when 99.9% of musicians can no longer perform.. maybe then, supply and demand fueled by the females, will bring music back into a position we enjoyed in the past?


You're not wrong.

Women are the dominant consumer. Musicians are too damn proud and/or embarrassed to play the tired and/or goofy songs that women want to hear - Mustang Sally, Hot Hot Hot, Thriller, Electric Slide, Old Time RnR... yeah roll your eyes.

Too many musicians only want to perform the songs that satisfy themselves and ignore their audience.

It's Economics 101 people - if you ignore your customers' needs, they will seek their needs elsewhere. That's where DJs are filling the gap.

As more DJs fulfill the customers' needs, the performing musician will become more displaced.


Eloquence Sir.
I have lived this "blasted" situation ( I am restraining myself here ) for half a century, I know it in my damned bones.
This is my arena. It is finally slowing down to a point, I have to try another job.
Or live in a car.
You give the music away, you will pay downstream, dearly.
And you are on the money about half talented musicians who want to play THEIR music versus what the ladies want to hear and dance to.
Their musical IQ's are pretty low, both the crowds and the musicians .
What, are the musicians thinking the are superior? Joke.
Give em what they want,
Luckily no one has dared call me a phase I heard decades ago from some clueless musicians
"A Prostitute"!! .. "yeah, I am a prostitute who will play you off the stage, fool. ... on three instruments"
I date back to big bands, to rock music in clubs, to Sinatra Dean martin music in mob joints, organ trio, to concerts, session work.. hotels , solo work. I even recorded an elec bass in an orchestra. Forgettable .. but the strings dragged!
i know this arena, my end of it , very well. I have low interpersonal skills, but in spite of that I still did what came my way.
I have played with the worst players, and the best. This rotting business, is my life.
End , for now, of rant.
But thank you Real McCoy for keeping it real.
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2922652 - 04/21/18 06:39 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Kawai James]
Radagast Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/18
Posts: 180
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
GC also owns Musician's Friend, correct?

James
x


GC not only owns Musician's Friend, but also Music 123, and Woodwind and Brasswind. That seems to be a poor business strategy.

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#2922684 - 04/21/18 10:41 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Radagast]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1932
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
GC went from my favorite store (of any kind) in the world to an irrelevant insult to keyboardists. I have friends who work at local GCs. its all they've done since we were teenagers, they've risen from teenage stoners hacking away on six strings and running sound boards to semi-respected department managers - which isn't that high up the chain but they were really more serious about being stoners. its pretty much all they can do that interests them. they play in bands for little pay and go to GC to play with instruments all day - again for not alot of pay. simple life, its what they are.

i worry for them, but otherwise ... meh. Since the advent of the internet thingy and steady demise of GC's keys department, it doesn't serve my needs much anyway. I'd be more concerned if i was a guitarist or actually worked in instrument retail.
_________________________
The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.

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#2922690 - 04/21/18 11:43 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: The Real MC]
Bill H. Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 4026
Loc: Columbia River Gorge, US
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Women are the dominant consumer. Musicians are too damn proud and/or embarrassed to play the tired and/or goofy songs that women want to hear - Mustang Sally, Hot Hot Hot, Thriller, Electric Slide, Old Time RnR... yeah roll your eyes.


So ok I think most of you know that I'm more often than not a club DJ on weekends now. Here are a few songs that women requested last night off the top of my head:

Cardi B - Drip
Gadiel - Has Cambiado
Bruno Mars - Finesse
Flo Rida - Low (yeah I know... but it packed the floor)
Wale - My PYT
Quad City DJs - Space Jam (astonishingly it did the same thing as Low)
Tech N9ne - Hood Go Crazy
Fifth Harmony - Work From Home

There were others, but I'm just waking up and these nights are just a blur. Everything moves so fast. As you can see, stylistically we're all over the map, and it's my job to keep a nice even flow going with as few bumps as possible.

It's not as easy as it seems. One mistake and I lose the floor. Several - and I lose the room. There are three other clubs less than two blocks away, and our crew has no problems bar hopping if things aren't happening.

As far as DJ equipment squeezing out keyboards at Guitar Centers, that really hasn't been the case here - especially since the collapse of the EDM scene a few years ago. Clackamas has a small DJ room sandwiched between the larger keyboard room and the much larger sound system room - and the DJ room has fallen into disrepair. Five years ago it seemed like every kid wanted to be a DJ. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

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#2922692 - 04/21/18 12:08 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Bill H.]
AnotherScott Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12902
Originally Posted By: Bill H.
Here are a few songs that women requested last night off the top of my head:

Cardi B - Drip
Gadiel - Has Cambiado
Bruno Mars - Finesse
Flo Rida - Low (yeah I know... but it packed the floor)
Wale - My PYT
Quad City DJs - Space Jam (astonishingly it did the same thing as Low)
Tech N9ne - Hood Go Crazy
Fifth Harmony - Work From Home

...
As you can see, stylistically we're all over the map


I am sure I am showing my age here, but from my perspective, stylistically, if you're all over the map, that map must only cover about a 5 block radius. ;-)
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2922698 - 04/21/18 12:41 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: MotiDave]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: MotiDave

i worry for them, but otherwise ... meh. Since the advent of the internet thingy and steady demise of GC's keys department, it doesn't serve my needs much anyway. I'd be more concerned if i was a guitarist or actually worked in instrument retail.


Thats interesting - do your guitar playing{GC employees} acquaintances read the news ?

To be a realist, the clock is ticking on their GC jobs. I understand the options of doing the same is nil.

Just the same, employment is often brutal and one has to adapt, obtain more skills.

Its been like that for 30 years.

I am not sentimental about GC of the 80's/90's. I don't reflect over what is never going re-occur. I am surprised that have hung around this long with that costly retail approach.

Driving on Bay area few ways is nothing special either. I shop online. Returns are easy.
_________________________
Innovation is never a single event. It is a long process of discovery, engineering, and transformation.
My Soundcloud with many originals:
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

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#2922713 - 04/21/18 02:58 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: MotiDave]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7039
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
GC went from my favorite store (of any kind) in the world to an irrelevant insult to keyboardists. I have friends who work at local GCs. its all they've done since we were teenagers, they've risen from teenage stoners hacking away on six strings and running sound boards to semi-respected department managers - which isn't that high up the chain but they were really more serious about being stoners. its pretty much all they can do that interests them. they play in bands for little pay and go to GC to play with instruments all day - again for not alot of pay. simple life, its what they are.

i worry for them, but otherwise ... meh. Since the advent of the internet thingy and steady demise of GC's keys department, it doesn't serve my needs much anyway. I'd be more concerned if i was a guitarist or actually worked in instrument retail.


Yes, it is odd, to me, the uncomprehending, that GC seldom has a CP4 to play.
I had to drive round trip over 200 miles to Hollywood to audition the $5000 YAMAHA Genos. Later when I wanted to hear it again, Hollywood GC informed me it would be a couple of months before they would have one.
In meantime my local GC has never had a Genos.
The only organs are Nords, and maybe a Korg meh, but the Suzuki stuff is not there ever.
Mixed feelings about GC... I do not want them to die... but as was mentioned.. maybe it will hopefully give a boost to Mom and Pop stores. It really hurt to lose Pro Sound and Music here in SD Calif.
Speaking of Mom and Pop, what about freaking Starbux? They about killed all those smaller more personalized establishments. That is criminal to me.
_________________________
"Live and let live", at least for me, has always has been a meaningless platitude, that is, until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

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#2922719 - 04/21/18 03:58 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: GregC]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1932
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: GregC
Originally Posted By: MotiDave

i worry for them, but otherwise ... meh. Since the advent of the internet thingy and steady demise of GC's keys department, it doesn't serve my needs much anyway. I'd be more concerned if i was a guitarist or actually worked in instrument retail.


Thats interesting - do your guitar playing{GC employees} acquaintances read the news ?

To be a realist, the clock is ticking on their GC jobs. I understand the options of doing the same is nil.

Just the same, employment is often brutal and one has to adapt, obtain more skills.

Its been like that for 30 years.

I am not sentimental about GC of the 80's/90's. I don't reflect over what is never going re-occur. I am surprised that have hung around this long with that costly retail approach.

Driving on Bay area few ways is nothing special either. I shop online. Returns are easy.

Yeah, iím not sentimental either. Iím old enough to have seen a lot of peopleís jobs go away in a lot of different companies and industries. No special love for a retail job of any kind. A work acquaintance (buyer) just left my stable medical device company to go work at GC HQ. That was a very odd career move imo.
_________________________
The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.

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#2922727 - 04/21/18 05:11 PM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: MotiDave]
SteveO42 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/18
Posts: 35
Just some ramblings and memories.
I'm another NYC (born and bred in Bklyn) / Long Islander here. Bought my first Juno from Alto music. Those were great times on 47/48th st in Manhattan. A musician could spend an entire weekend hopping from store to store and they would all bargain to some degree. Those were good times indeed... We keyboardists lived through the disco era, thrived in the 80's FM pop culture era. It's always been up and down.. In the 70's walk into any music store, Mannys, Alto, Sam Ash, any of them and some kid was wailing Stairway To Heaven.. These days, at least on Long Island it's some really young kid playing Piano Man on some POS Williams keyboard that the GC salesperson is pushing on the starry eyed mom. For me, GC is varied. On Long Island there are a couple of them and they differ but generally have a decent selection of keyboards at least compared to Sam Ash which also has 2 stores on Long Island and mostly have 49 key "beatz maker" type stuff. At least last time I looked. The previously mentioned Frank And Camilles seems to be a gem. Since I'm shopping for a pro level weighted controller, they seem to be the only ones carrying the Kawai line of MP11SE etc. They also seem to carry high end Roland as well so if they can meet my best price, they have the sale.


I hope GC can survive.
We need competition.
I wish them well.

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#2922752 - 04/22/18 04:22 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: SteveO42]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 283
Without GC how are we going to try stuff out so we know what to buy online?

One inherent problem with brick and mortar is sales tax vs. online out of state.

If a city was smart they would back off just to get the jobs and commerce.

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#2922755 - 04/22/18 04:31 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: BuckW]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: BuckW
Without GC how are we going to try stuff out so we know what to buy online?

One inherent problem with brick and mortar is sales tax vs. online out of state.

If a city was smart they would back off just to get the jobs and commerce.


I agree, most ( ?) keyboardists are tactile. I bet guitarists are similarly tactile.

This is the world we live in. Internet, YouTube, product demos, pro reviews, early adopters on this forum.

I bought my Kronos 88, 7 yrs ago, without trying it. Same with my FA-07 (last Nov).

To me, both were no brainers.

Old days of shopping are poof. Adapt, change, etc, etc.

There is next to zero risk of purchasing online from a decent/reputable dealer.
_________________________
Innovation is never a single event. It is a long process of discovery, engineering, and transformation.
My Soundcloud with many originals:
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

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#2922760 - 04/22/18 05:27 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: BuckW]
Dr88s Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 1286
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: BuckW
Without GC how are we going to try stuff out so we know what to buy online?

One inherent problem with brick and mortar is sales tax vs. online out of state.

If a city was smart they would back off just to get the jobs and commerce.


I grapple with this often and bite the bullet and pay the sales tax locally. There's something to be said about having a local brick and mortar store.
_________________________
NS2EX Compact, MX88

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#2922763 - 04/22/18 05:51 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Dr88s]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Originally Posted By: BuckW
Wite.


I grapple with this often and bite the bullet and pay the sales tax locally. There's something to be said about having a local brick and mortar store.


Even though economics drives most purchase decisions, I don't mind paying state tax on purchases. There is a bigger picture to support and I am for that.
_________________________
Innovation is never a single event. It is a long process of discovery, engineering, and transformation.
My Soundcloud with many originals:
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

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#2922764 - 04/22/18 06:06 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: GregC]
AnotherScott Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12902
The thing about guitars is that so much is about feel, and they can all feel different. At least that's what I remember from my days of regularly frequenting brick and mortar stores. Keyboardists would try out the display models, and then buy a factory sealed box. Guitarists would try out the models on the floor, and if they found one they liked, they would buy that exact one. So at least to that extent, the guitar purchasing model doesn' translate as well to online sales as keyboard purchasing does. (Though ironically, I have found that with some keyboards, there IS unit-to-unit variation in feel, and I really would prefer to buy the one I actually played.)

Also, I'm not surprised that so much of what's left of keyboard display space at brick and mortar stores is often dedicated to the lower end stuff. It probably sells in more volume, and in absolute dollars, the amount you might save over the net (i.e. by even just saving the sales tax, as someone mentioned) is relatively small and not so motivating. These are also often the kinds of boards a parent or grandparent might buy for a young player as a gift, which is also something that lends itself to local purchase, local guidance, and local return/exchange options.

Also more likely to be purchased in a B&M store, I think, are console models, which double as furniture. Between the aesthetics and the weight, people want to see them in the flesh and not want to deal with claims if something comes damaged or shipping if something needs to be returned.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2922769 - 04/22/18 06:57 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Bill H.]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7039
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: Bill H.
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Women are the dominant consumer. Musicians are too damn proud and/or embarrassed to play the tired and/or goofy songs that women want to hear - Mustang Sally, Hot Hot Hot, Thriller, Electric Slide, Old Time RnR... yeah roll your eyes.


So ok I think most of you know that I'm more often than not a club DJ on weekends now. Here are a few songs that women requested last night off the top of my head:

Cardi B - Drip
Gadiel - Has Cambiado
Bruno Mars - Finesse
Flo Rida - Low (yeah I know... but it packed the floor)
Wale - My PYT
Quad City DJs - Space Jam (astonishingly it did the same thing as Low)
Tech N9ne - Hood Go Crazy
Fifth Harmony - Work From Home

There were others, but I'm just waking up and these nights are just a blur. Everything moves so fast. As you can see, stylistically we're all over the map, and it's my job to keep a nice even flow going with as few bumps as possible.

It's not as easy as it seems. One mistake and I lose the floor. Several - and I lose the room. There are three other clubs less than two blocks away, and our crew has no problems bar hopping if things aren't happening.

As far as DJ equipment squeezing out keyboards at Guitar Centers, that really hasn't been the case here - especially since the collapse of the EDM scene a few years ago. Clackamas has a small DJ room sandwiched between the larger keyboard room and the much larger sound system room - and the DJ room has fallen into disrepair. Five years ago it seemed like every kid wanted to be a DJ. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.


A few comments about you.
Firstly, based on my rant, you might assume I have no use for DJ's.. and since you are a DJ! But truth be told, I have always respected your posts.
And here, once again, I like very much what I see.

I wish I could get into your head, and watch you at work. I would hopefully absorb, a part of the sensitivity that you are in the process of ever sharpening.
I like your words about honing in on the vibe of the crowd, so easily lost if not attentive , very very much.
It is one of the major areas that I need help with. Of course I am not alone here, as so many musicians are without clue about this either.

But a guy like you is doing what every strong bandleader or solo musician has been endeavoring to do for as long as there have been musicians and interested audiences. Ravi Shankar long ago surprised and educated me, when he called what he does ENTERTAINMENT. He may have said divine entertainment, but its been 50 years now!

Musicians have shot themselves in the foot, and as a result ushered in the DJ, for decades now. Not to mention karaoke from Japan.

You have to "play pretty for the people" ( well not just pretty grin :face palm: ) an old axiom of yesteryear, I associate with Oscar Peterson.

While the "crowd" does not know about music from the perspective of the musician, they do know something I cannot articulate. I know you are attuned to IT, even if you yourself could not encapsulate it, and sell it as a CD for $19,95!
Thank you for your level headed posts.

Of course the dedicated musicians will take exception to this. I have only touched on the commercial aspect of music. There IS another side, and that is why I have huge admiration to the rare heroes who with single minded and courageous focus, not only had talent, but worked upon it incessantly, and had the fortitude to not be concerned about entertainment, too much, if at all.
I am speaking about the jazz icons... bless them too.
To round this out.. whether you are playing for the dancers or you are Cecil Taylor, one is still entertaining ... but just to a very wide variety of human beings


Edited by I-missRichardTee (04/22/18 07:05 AM)
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#2922903 - 04/23/18 04:37 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 283
Props for the world's first positive rant.

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#2922962 - 04/23/18 09:28 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: BuckW]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1932
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: BuckW
Without GC how are we going to try stuff out so we know what to buy online?

One inherent problem with brick and mortar is sales tax vs. online out of state.

If a city was smart they would back off just to get the jobs and commerce.

What keyboards does GC even put on the floor to demo that you'd want to try? hence my lesser interest in their possible demise. they already killed the keyboards room for actual pro musicians.
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#2922968 - 04/23/18 09:36 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: MotiDave]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Rochester, NY
Someone was bitching on Facebook about this very thing and criticized Sweetwater from taking jobs. My buddy works there and I have had good service in 24 years of dealing with them. MotiDave is right we used to have a good selection lear locally at GC from 2000- 2008. Now it's the most depressing music store to go into.
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#2922971 - 04/23/18 09:41 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Outkaster]
MathOfInsects Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3576
Loc: California
The whole GC "keyboards" thing comes up from time to time, but I think it's an old-people gripe. Most people don't buy $4K stage pianos, they buy controllers and gimmicky mono-synths. Plenty of those there. On the flip side, I have rarely gone to our GC and not been able to lay hands on the board I was hoping to find. Sometimes, but rarely. My only real gripe is those crappy Williams pianos taking floor space from others I might want to demo. On the flip side...can't fault a company for trying to make money...

Though in this case it appears they failed. Oops.
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#2922974 - 04/23/18 09:49 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: MotiDave]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4904
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: BuckW
Without GC how are we going to try stuff out so we know what to buy online?

One inherent problem with brick and mortar is sales tax vs. online out of state.

If a city was smart they would back off just to get the jobs and commerce.

What keyboards does GC even put on the floor to demo that you'd want to try? hence my lesser interest in their possible demise. they already killed the keyboards room for actual pro musicians.


It depends on which GC.

Luckily my closest one still has a great pro-audio department, and actually has good keys on the floor to audition.
Grnadstage, Kronos, RD-2000, Montage, etc.. as well as the usual suspects.

My local store actually remodeled and split off the controller section into it's own room and have the latest Akai, M-Audio, Kontakt, etc.. that you can try.

I know I am really lucky, but the head of that pro -audio department, and a couple of the sales guys have been there for at least 10 years, and they are actually keyboard players, as well as tech junkies, so I can go in and bounce ideas off them and get their opinion.

On the flip side, a couple other GC in the relative area are horrible in the above. They look at you like you have 3 heads when asking about a certain keyboard, or interface, etc...
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 | Alesis Vortex Wireless 2 | Mainstage |


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#2922976 - 04/23/18 09:58 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: EscapeRocks]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6279
Loc: Rochester, NY
David I think that is the exception. The Buffalo one is a little better than here. Also hearing "we don't have it in stock but we could probably order it" for you is getting really old. I don't expect them to have every board but at least pro stuff from the big three.


Edited by Outkaster (04/23/18 10:16 AM)
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noblevibes.com


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#2922995 - 04/23/18 11:18 AM Re: The end of Guitar Center? [Re: Outkaster]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4904
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
David I think that is the exception. The Buffalo one is a little better than here. Also hearing "we don't have it in stock but we could probably order it" for you is getting really old. I don't expect them to have every board but at least pro stuff from the big three.


Truth be told, I have begun running into that with my guys as well. It has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with the regional buyers.

Because of that, my last two major board purchases were from really sweet zzounding places wink
_________________________
David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 | Alesis Vortex Wireless 2 | Mainstage |


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