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#2561668 - 01/15/14 10:47 AM Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted?
ProfQ Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/14
Posts: 6
Hey guys, I was hoping you all might have some insight on this problem - so I got my Pc3le6 about nine months ago, and so far, it's spent over a month total of that time in the shop for one problem - "the blinking problem." Now, I don't want to condemn the whole LE series (or perhaps specifically the 6s), but despite everyone always saying that Kurzweils are built like tanks, I keep encountering this issue - i'll be playing along, and suddenly, the PC3le will freeze, blank screen, with all the button lights blinking randomly. Then, every time you turn on the machine after that, it simply freezes on the blank screen and blinking lights. This has been happening to other owners as well, see video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leY8-fccWyk

I've been doing some research, and though there's very little info on it, it seems like MANY pc3le6 players have encountered this exact problem, and, no matter how many times they take it to the shop, the problem reoccurs. I've already had mine in the shop twice, and now the problem has begun again, for a third time, and I'M STILL UNDER MY ONE YEAR WARRANTY! At this point, I'm looking to probably get a refund from the factory, b/c three strikes in 9 months is just absolutely ridiculous. I was hoping some of you might have similar stories to help me understand what the hell is going on, and what other board I should invest in instead.
This really stinks...

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KC Island
#2561671 - 01/15/14 10:53 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: ProfQ]
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2652
Loc: Take a guess ....
Here are my thoughts:

1) Under the keyboard is an accessory panel (user panel). Reseat all cables. Then retry. If the problem persists:

2) contact Jean at Kurzweil support (support@kurzweil.com) with a link to the video so that he can see the problem. Jean's the best, no shit.....
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2561689 - 01/15/14 11:37 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Delaware Dave]
Rodan88 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/29/13
Posts: 31
ProfQ -

THANK YOU for posting this. I had no idea that this is a "known problem."

I've been through the wringer on this.

I bought my PCLE6 when the model first came out, a few years ago. I thought then, as I do now, that it represents the best bang-for-the-buck out there. Not to mention its unique status as the only semi-weighted 61-key unit available.

I started having ProfQ's exact issue once my unit was out-of-warranty. Brought it to my long time tech in NYC, who was stumped for a long time, then finally seemed to get it fixed. Problem came back around a year later. Brought the unit to a different repair shop in NYC (dBm). They quickly fixed the issue, only to have it return a few months later. During all of this, I bought 2 other keyboards (different brands) to serve as backups. I'm always nervous using the LE on gigs, but it usually make it through all right.

By the way - the best remedy I've found when the LE acts up is to pick it up, and shake/tilt it around. Often, the next power-up is fine! ;-D

Full disclosure - I'm a huge Kurzweil fan. Since my K2000 purchase in 1992, I've bought at least 6 of their units, and hadn't bought another brand until the 2 recent purchases mentioned above. I know (ex-Kurzweil employee) Dave Weiser, have been to Kurzweil to do the hang, have interacted with Jean many times, etc. These people are the best in the business, hands down. I've been willing to cut them a lot of slack with technical issues, and stuck by them during the frustrating times when the company was in danger of folding, parts for repairs were impossible to get, etc.
I've always believed that their products sound the best, are unbelievably deep programming-wise, and have a superior user interface, especially for live playing.

So, I'm disappointed to hear that this is a known issue. I'm not pointing fingers, but no one at Kurzweil, the repair shops, the distributor, etc. have ever acknowledged seeing this problem before. I sent a video clip similar to yours to several people at Kurzweil and the distributor as far back as a couple of years ago, too.

I really want to get to the bottom of this. Don't even get me started on my K2661 and PC1se (MINT condition, left the house once). Both units work OK, but the colored lights embedded in the switches (that give you visual feedback of what mode you're in, etc.) don't work. And in consulting the manufacturer, distributor and service people, I've been basically told that I'm shit out of luck.

I would welcome feedback from others with the PC3LE6 "blinking" problem, and comments/strategies from anyone who might have a path to getting my other units fixed as well.

Kurzweil - love ya, but my patience is wearing thin!

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#2561773 - 01/15/14 02:48 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Rodan88]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1168
Loc: Boston, MA
I was not aware of this issue being widespread when I was at Kurz, but I have seen multiple reports of it since I left back in June.

I'll be stopping by R&D tomorrow or Friday - I'll be sure to ask the hardware guys about this and find out if there are fixes on the way.

Regarding issues with older boards like the K26 and PC1 - that's a very different situation as the repair parts for those are very, very hard to find these days.

At least the LE is new/current enough that parts availability is not an issue.

Anyone here can feel free to shoot me an email and I'll do what I can to assist. weiserdav@gmail.com

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#2561816 - 01/15/14 05:36 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Dave Weiser]
Cowzar Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Rodan88
Brought it to my long time tech in NYC, who was stumped for a long time, then finally seemed to get it fixed. Problem came back around a year later. Brought the unit to a different repair shop in NYC (dBm). They quickly fixed the issue, only to have it return a few months later.

You got any information on the repairs they made?
Were parts replaced?
Joints re soldered?
Or connectors fixed into position?

Originally Posted By: Rodan88

Since my K2000 purchase in 1992, I've bought at least 6 of their units, and hadn't bought another brand until the 2 recent purchases mentioned above.


I would be writing them an email stating how many Kurzweils you have bought over the years and the issues you continue to have with the PC3LE. Customer loyalty is one thing, product reliability is another. And with reliability, they are forcing you to look elsewhere. That in itself should ring alarm bells within the hallowed halls of Young Chang.

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#2562014 - 01/16/14 10:52 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Cowzar]
ProfQ Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/14
Posts: 6
So I've been emailing back and for with Matt Wood at AM&S (still haven't gotten a response from anyone at support@kurz), and he actually told me that within the last year a bulletin went out about this problem. He writes...
MW: "For the issue you have described, where the keyboard's lights flash on and off and the keyboard remains unresponsive, there is a specific fix for this particular issue which involves making a modification to one of the internal boards. There was service/engineering bulletin which was released within the past year which was sent out to all service centers, however it may not have made it to your local tech for some reason. So there is information which our internal techs have which the local techs may not have yet received at the time of your previous repair."
Is this a permanent fix?
MW: "From what I understand, this fix has been resolving the problem permanently when it has been applied. I will check with my internal service center however to see if they have had any feedback from users "post-repair" this far ."

Now, I'm still not sure if I totally trust the fix - this may be what other techs have done to solve the issue, and eventually it just reoccurs anyways. All in all, it makes me more than a bit uncomfortable given the reliability of the instrument. I'd love to hear what info Dave Weiser gets!

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#2562025 - 01/16/14 11:09 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: ProfQ]
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2652
Loc: Take a guess ....
Sounds to me as though they have identified a hardware fix

" ..there is a specific fix for this particular issue which involves making a modification to one of the internal boards. There was service/engineering bulletin which was released within the past year.."

I would take your board in for repair (while under warranty) and have your repairman pull down the service bulletin (or have AM&S send them the bulletin). I would feel worse if a specific fix was unknown; sounds as though there is a known fix but perhaps your repair guy doesn't know about it.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2562038 - 01/16/14 11:45 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Delaware Dave]
AlanV Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Never seen this problem with my PC3LE7.

Hoping I don't jinx myself now as I've got a gig next week.
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Nord Stage 2 SW73, Kurzweil PC3LE7, Moog Sub 37, Alesis Ion, Rhodes Stage 73, Moog Werkstatt-01, Yamaha CP-300
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Who's there?
Interrupting synthesizer
Interrup-MOOOOOOOOOG

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#2562059 - 01/16/14 12:30 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: AlanV]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1168
Loc: Boston, MA
The LE fix is solid.
Take it in for service and make sure that AM&S is in touch with your repair shop.

[Note - I do not work for Kurz, just trying to lend a helping hand.]

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#2692130 - 05/29/15 12:26 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: ProfQ]
swinnersmusic Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 1
Loc: wiltshire
I got the blinking light problem on my 8 month old PC3LE6 on Friday 22 May 2015.
For a week I tried taking all leads out and putting them back in.
Felt VERY sickened at having wasted Ł800.
I read your posts today (Friday 29th May 2015)
Switched the unit off.
Got hold of the ends and gave it two vertical sharp SHAKES.
HEY PRESTO ...problem solved.
Thanks Rodan
I will get back to report any reccurrence when it happens.


Edited by swinnersmusic (05/29/15 12:35 PM)
Edit Reason: to thank Rodan

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#2692144 - 05/29/15 01:39 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: swinnersmusic]
davedoerfler Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6152
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: swinnersmusic

Got hold of the ends and gave it two vertical sharp SHAKES.
HEY PRESTO ...problem solved.

excellent fix. twothumbs roll
wish I could do that with my car. grin
Welcome to the forum, even if on a zombie thread.
_________________________
'88 Kawai 52" Upright,'61 Hammond A100,'81 Rhodes 88 Mark II Stage,'71 Wurlitzer 200, Clavinet E7, Moog Voyager, Leslies 142/Studio 12, Yamaha CP70, DSI Prophet 08, Arp Solina, Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo

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#2692283 - 05/30/15 02:59 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Rodan88]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3866
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: Rodan88


By the way - the best remedy I've found when the LE acts up is to pick it up, and shake/tilt it around. Often, the next power-up is fine! ;-D


IŽd call that the perfect interlude on a concert tour show to give the audience something special.
It would be a great idea combining it w/ a (power cycle) bet where someone in the audience wins your LE in case it doesnŽt power up next time!
Best chance for your tech to replace it by a Yammi or other pro brand in a heartbeat while keeping the audience in mood.

roll

A.C.

P.S.:
Sometimes I LOVE zombie threads


Edited by Al Coda (05/30/15 03:00 AM)

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#2692440 - 05/30/15 03:19 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Al Coda]
Rikismyname Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/18/14
Posts: 622
Loc: Cambridgeshire
I had this with my Kurzweil pc3le7 , and it started at the worst possible time - at a gig no not a small one either,
Kurzweil were great and repaired it even though I was the 2nd owner , they ordered a part from America , something to do with the power, I got all the blinking lights and wouldn't work, but I'm sure the engineer said he I'd some work with the wiring. I would never touch an LE in a million years now though after reading quite a few similar experiences . Get a pc3 or a K or an A, but not an LE

Kurzweil are a great company, and great customer service via Jean - great sounds but there is a gamble buying the LE it seems.




Kurzweil pc3 76 I have is fine though smile


Edited by Rikismyname (05/30/15 03:22 PM)
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#2692445 - 05/30/15 03:44 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Rikismyname]
Brettymike Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 2915
Loc: Auckland , New Zealand
Look people, if I was seriously busy gigging flat out, *especially* these days I would carry 2!!! keyboards.
Brett

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#2692608 - 05/31/15 02:36 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Brettymike]
Synthaholic Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1302
Loc: Where the wild things are
Originally Posted By: Brettymike
Look people, if I was seriously busy gigging flat out, *especially* these days I would carry 2!!! keyboards.
Brett


^^^ The main reason why I haven't switched over to my PC3 for gigs - no backup, and don't have the money for a PC3K7.
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People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

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#2692652 - 05/31/15 06:32 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Synthaholic]
Brettymike Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 2915
Loc: Auckland , New Zealand
Anyone, even if they were on the bones of their butt, could afford to carry one of these as backup for piano and more, they sound great! > https://youtu.be/mpjI96KoA_E
Brett

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#2692781 - 06/01/15 08:28 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Brettymike]
Synthaholic Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1302
Loc: Where the wild things are
Originally Posted By: Brettymike
Anyone, even if they were on the bones of their butt, could afford to carry one of these as backup for piano and more, they sound great! > https://youtu.be/mpjI96KoA_E
Brett


That's great if you're playing only. Not a substitute if you have committed MIDI sequences to a keyboard.
_________________________
The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

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#2692887 - 06/01/15 01:13 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Synthaholic]
Brettymike Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 2915
Loc: Auckland , New Zealand
Ha Ha , I never get heavily into midi for that very possibility of major breakdown - on the cards with anything (brand wise).
One of the greatest keyboardist/programmers on the planet who I know very well , gets by with ONE keyboard most of the time....
I laugh quietly at some people with 3,4,5,6 keyboards or more , and sounding entertaining in the wrong way grin (i.e- poor)
Sounds more than fine to me (recorded with handheld camera) > https://youtu.be/nu-EotxTqrA
Brett



Edited by Brettymike (06/01/15 06:05 PM)

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#2874818 - 08/23/17 11:57 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Brettymike]
eclipse69 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/17
Posts: 3
Loc: East Europe, Ruse, Bulgaria

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#2874931 - 08/24/17 10:30 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: eclipse69]
synthizen2 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 651
Loc: USA
Oh, man. These threads about the display flickering or malfunctioning on the Kurzweil PC series... are making me nervous. Between last week and this week are the biggest summer gigs of the season for me. The PC3 got me through the Yawkey Way gig (RedSox game opener), and now it's on to Hampton Beach tonight... Crossing my fingers.

Not that a healthy dose of Keyboard Repair Guy isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. Fixed broken keys, displays, etc. on many of my past boards. This one (when it goes) should be fixable as I can see from the above posts. Just hoping that day doesn't come NOW!
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#2875005 - 08/24/17 03:57 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: synthizen2]
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2652
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: synthizen2
Oh, man. These threads about the display flickering or malfunctioning on the Kurzweil PC series... are making me nervous. Between last week and this week are the biggest summer gigs of the season for me. The PC3 got me through the Yawkey Way gig (RedSox game opener), and now it's on to Hampton Beach tonight... Crossing my fingers.

Not that a healthy dose of Keyboard Repair Guy isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. Fixed broken keys, displays, etc. on many of my past boards. This one (when it goes) should be fixable as I can see from the above posts. Just hoping that day doesn't come NOW!

The PC3LE issue is centric to the LE series meaning it does not impact your PC3. And I even if it did the fix was identified by Kurzweil in a sevice bulletin issued over 3 1/2 years ago. Not sure why this should be new news to any authorized service center.
_________________________
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#2875162 - 08/25/17 08:23 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Delaware Dave]
synthizen2 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 651
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
Originally Posted By: synthizen2
Oh, man. These threads about the display flickering or malfunctioning on the Kurzweil PC series... are making me nervous. Between last week and this week are the biggest summer gigs of the season for me. The PC3 got me through the Yawkey Way gig (RedSox game opener), and now it's on to Hampton Beach tonight... Crossing my fingers.

Not that a healthy dose of Keyboard Repair Guy isn't something I'm unfamiliar with. Fixed broken keys, displays, etc. on many of my past boards. This one (when it goes) should be fixable as I can see from the above posts. Just hoping that day doesn't come NOW!

The PC3LE issue is centric to the LE series meaning it does not impact your PC3. And I even if it did the fix was identified by Kurzweil in a sevice bulletin issued over 3 1/2 years ago. Not sure why this should be new news to any authorized service center.


The electronic issue that the LE series has may not be the same as the regular PC series, but in another thread somebody reported flicker on a PC3x, and that is simply an 88-key fully weighted version of the PC3. So, it may still get the problem, but for a different reason (?).
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#2875168 - 08/25/17 08:39 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: synthizen2]
hipogrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 30
Loc: East Northport,NY
Hi,

PC3LE and PC3 has different boards and different electronics (power supply, etc).

Any display can fail on any given unit for different reasons, from a loose cable to many other reasons.

If anybody has any hardware problem please contact Support, that's the first step to get the proper and fastest solution http://kurzweil.com/support/repair/

Regards
Fran

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#2878560 - 09/12/17 06:02 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Delaware Dave]
eclipse69 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/17
Posts: 3
Loc: East Europe, Ruse, Bulgaria
Hi,
The add-on to the service bulletin (dropped 3.5 years ago) is important because it obviously does not solve the final blinking problem. This happened with my Kurzweil PC3LE7, and he no longer has a guarantee / I am the second owner of about 9 months / the problem become seriously, OS is loading successfully, it is crackling and then It has no sound at the LR outputs and the headphones. From Kurzweil offer me to replace the main board ... frown
Regards, Krasimir

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#2878840 - 09/13/17 08:32 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: eclipse69]
Daniel Wade Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/14
Posts: 383
Loc: Houston, Texas

I had an issue that sounds similar, a long time ago with my PC3 (76 key, not le). No blinking, but after about a year of ownership, the sound would crackle a little and then no sound.

I took it apart and found it was just a couple cold solder joints on the output circuit board where the output jacks are soldered on to it. I reflowed the solder joints, and never had any more trouble. It had been working fine for over a year, but I guess constant plugging and unplugging must have put some strain on the cold soldered joints, until they just finally lost continuity.

The lead free solder joints that are required nowdays, are good for the environment, but are definitely less desireable for the application and dependability of electronics. Lead free soldering does seems to finally be getting a little better, but I'm not sure it will ever be as good as the leaded.
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#2878891 - 09/13/17 11:04 AM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Daniel Wade]
synthizen2 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 651
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Daniel Wade

I had an issue that sounds similar, a long time ago with my PC3 (76 key, not le). No blinking, but after about a year of ownership, the sound would crackle a little and then no sound.

I took it apart and found it was just a couple cold solder joints on the output circuit board where the output jacks are soldered on to it. I reflowed the solder joints, and never had any more trouble.


I had this same exact problem with the outputs on my Korg Z1, but those output jacks weren't bolted onto the back of the synth, they were just attached to the circuit board with no further reinforcement (many synths are made this way).

Easy to see why it happened on the Korg... but the outputs jacks on the PC3 are bolted on, so I would think they should have held up better.
_________________________
Kurzweil PC3, Yamaha MOX8, Korg Z1, Alesis Ion, Alesis QS8.2, Kawai K3M, Arturia CS-80V, VAZ Modular, co-author of MinimogueVA and Arppe2600va.

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#2878917 - 09/13/17 12:24 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: synthizen2]
Daniel Wade Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/19/14
Posts: 383
Loc: Houston, Texas

If it had not been for the cold solder joints, I'm sure they would have been fine. There has not been any more problems with it since I reflowed the solder joints to fix it, and that has been quite a few years, and many gigs since then.

Why it took over a year to show itself, I'm not sure. Vibration, temperature, plugging, unplugging, I don't know, but when you have a weak connection point, I'm sure it doesn't take much.
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#2879038 - 09/13/17 11:45 PM Re: Kurzweil Pc3le6 "Blinking Problem" Is the LE line corrupted? [Re: Daniel Wade]
eclipse69 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/17
Posts: 3
Loc: East Europe, Ruse, Bulgaria
Hi,
"Blinking problem" as far as I know is "trade mark" for the LE series only. This is known to Kurzweil and I hope to fix the problem permanently, although the series is stopped by production and as far as I know it is not a weak conection point. It is not possible for all three LRs and headphones to have a defect at the same time. On the Internet and here I noticed that a lot of people are interested in this problem with the LE series and will write what is going on with my PC3LE7.
Regards, Krasimir


Edited by eclipse69 (09/14/17 01:16 PM)

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