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#2561652 - 01/15/14 10:11 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Grave Bryce]
therealvicz Offline
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Registered: 09/20/10
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
I actually have an FA-06 here at the moment. I'm reviewing it for Keyboard mag. thu

Just got it yesterday, so I haven't really dug into it yet....but from what I hear, I really like the way it sounds.

Still not sure how I feel about the super light weight thing in general yet. I've had several keyboards here for review that fall into that category (Kross, MOXF, VR-09), and my XK-1c is also way light weight. I guess as long as they stand up to the rigors of the road, it shouldn't be a problem.

dB


Can the samples be mapped across the keyboard?
Can the arpeggiator play the drum kits?
Is there a PC or iPad librarian app?
Can the over-50s read the display?

The people need to know smile
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#2561655 - 01/15/14 10:15 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Grave Bryce]
Aidan Online   content
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Neil, Andertons have it on at £1299 for the 88, so exactly same price as MOXF8.
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#2561657 - 01/15/14 10:17 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: therealvicz]
Grave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: therealvicz
Can the samples be mapped across the keyboard?
Can the arpeggiator play the drum kits?
Is there a PC or iPad librarian app?
Can the over-50s read the display?

The people need to know smile

I'm preparing for the NAMM show next week, and (other than playing with it some, of course), am not going to be able to really dig into the FA review until after the show is over. idk

I will say that "Over 50s" will definitely be able to read the display, although there are some things in some modes that are smaller than others.....

dB
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#2561659 - 01/15/14 10:31 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Aidan]
miden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Aidan
Neil, Andertons have it on at £1299 for the 88, so exactly same price as MOXF8.


Not out here wink even at 1300 pounds it is at least a third more than the moxf...but then having said that, street and RRP (US = MSRP) are always substantially different.

Makes me think makers deliberately jack the RRP "KNOWING" the street price will be approx X to make them seem more "buyable"

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#2561662 - 01/15/14 10:37 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: bloodyMary]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: bloodyMary
damn I just bought a Yamaha. This one looks like a strong contender, with same features, but adding a friendly sampler (not requiring any additional (expensive) flash cards).

Every reference I've seen to loading samples has been only in terms of triggering them from the 16 pads. I don't think this is going to be comparable to the MOXF's ability to load 512 mb or 1 gig of new sampled keyboard-playable sounds.
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#2561675 - 01/15/14 10:55 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Aidan]
orangefunk Offline
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Originally Posted By: Aidan
Neil, Andertons have it on at £1299 for the 88, so exactly same price as MOXF8.


Ahh that makes more sense I suppose. So sub £1000 for the 61 I presume.

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#2561678 - 01/15/14 11:06 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: AnotherScott]
miden Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: bloodyMary
damn I just bought a Yamaha. This one looks like a strong contender, with same features, but adding a friendly sampler (not requiring any additional (expensive) flash cards).

Every reference I've seen to loading samples has been only in terms of triggering them from the 16 pads. I don't think this is going to be comparable to the MOXF's ability to load 512 mb or 1 gig of new sampled keyboard-playable sounds.


and even then probs only a 20 second ( or less?) "soundbyte" per pad. The MOX definitely has the edge for adding further sound samples imo.

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#2561697 - 01/15/14 11:49 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Toano88]
Sam Mullins Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toano88
Originally Posted By: Aidan
At £1299 I don't think this is the flagship - this is their MOXF


Agreed! but there really is a lot here for the price. This thing is aimed squarely at the MOXF & Krome. And I think if I were looking right now and this was I available I think this has more to offer than the former. I'm not looking for a replacement for my MOX8 just yet. But it does look a hell of a lot easier to use!


+1.

I think they will sell a lot of these (assuming the keyboard action isn't horrible). For the same price as the MOXF6 you get much of the same functionality plus a sampler and a nice color screen interface.

I just got my MOXF6 and have several years of Motif-line knowledge under my belt, so I wouldn't jump for this right now. If I was starting from scratch (no knowledge of either), this would look a lot easier to use than the MOXF6. For example, from the video, doing a simple split looks more intuitive.

Of course, there are many things besides "ease of use" to consider. For example, the Yamaha master mode is very important to me. I have no idea if there is the equivalent on the new Roland.

The sample loading time is encouraging.
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#2561715 - 01/15/14 12:30 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: torhu]
JeffLearman Offline
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Two strikes against it from my point of view: pitch stick (ugh), and location of pitch stick to the left of the keyboard (ugh).

But there are folks who prefer that, so viva la difference.

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#2561720 - 01/15/14 12:35 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Sam Mullins]
Dana. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
I think they will sell a lot of these (assuming the keyboard action isn't horrible).

Action appears to be the same as VR-09/Juno/GAIA.

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#2561762 - 01/15/14 02:02 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Dana.]
Nadread Offline
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Keyboard mag have written a first look article with a couple of demo videos from dB. Watching them now.

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/roland-fa-08-and-rd-800-first-look/153803
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#2561771 - 01/15/14 02:43 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Nadread]
DicemLabs.com Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nadroj
Keyboard mag have written a first look article with a couple of demo videos from dB. Watching them now.

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/roland-fa-08-and-rd-800-first-look/153803

Embedding them here:
smile

Part 1:


Part2:


Nice chops, Dave!

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#2561778 - 01/15/14 03:03 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: DicemLabs.com]
miden Offline
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Thing I like about the MOXF8 though is the length - it is about the shortest 88 note W/S I have used (apart from controllers) - and it actually fits into the Gator extra large 76 note Roadcase!!

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#2561799 - 01/15/14 04:07 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: orangefunk]
Moonglow Offline
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Originally Posted By: orangefunk
How does this compare with the JP80 in terms of the sound engine?

While not a "sound engine" issue, the Jupiter 80 allows you build "Registrations" or "Combis within Combis"....to borrow from Korg-speak. A Registration consists of two "Live Sets," each of which contain four "Tones" (i.e., individual patches). Also included in a Registration are a "Solo" part and a "Perc" part, each of which contain one Tone. So a Registration can contain up to 10 Tones, or individual patches. As others have posted, I'm wondering if the FA-06/08 contains such a mode, as of course this would allow one to make it sound really big and fat if need be. If there is such a mode, we can call it the Fat Ass-06/08. rimshot facepalm




Edited by Moonglow (01/15/14 04:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Inserted dumb joke.
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#2561802 - 01/15/14 04:33 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: stoken6]
garnermike Offline
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12 pounds for the FA-06.
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#2561803 - 01/15/14 04:35 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: miden]
DanL Offline
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Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: bloodyMary
damn I just bought a Yamaha. This one looks like a strong contender, with same features, but adding a friendly sampler (not requiring any additional (expensive) flash cards).

Every reference I've seen to loading samples has been only in terms of triggering them from the 16 pads. I don't think this is going to be comparable to the MOXF's ability to load 512 mb or 1 gig of new sampled keyboard-playable sounds.


and even then probs only a 20 second ( or less?) "soundbyte" per pad. The MOX definitely has the edge for adding further sound samples imo.

If the sampler is similar to the SP404SX, there is no time limit on the length of the sample per pad, only the limit to what the SD card can hold. I have samples on my 404 that are several minutes long assigned to 1 pad.
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#2561812 - 01/15/14 05:18 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: DanL]
miden Offline
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Okay cool, thx Dan

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#2561814 - 01/15/14 05:26 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: DicemLabs.com]
Grave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Hamlin
Keyboard mag have written a first look article with a couple of demo videos from dB.
Nice chops, Dave!


Thanks! wave

dB

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#2561860 - 01/15/14 07:50 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Grave Bryce]
Leh173 Offline
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Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 429
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Thanks for those videos dB. Good overview. I'm glad you covered the patch remain feature. I'd be interested to know how that works on the FAx series, as on the Fantom G Live Mode can change 8 layers with FX with no dropouts but Studio Mode can't. I'm hoping on the Fax series you can change entire Studio Sets without dropouts, as this is one of the best features on the fantom G series.

My general thought so far after watching this and the sonic state video as well, these keyboard seemed to be derived from the previous Fantom generations, with a much better sound engine. How much of the workstation features made it over from the Fantom G/X will be of great interest to current Fantom owners. I look forward to learning more and how these boards compare.

Things I'd like to know are: did the RPS feature survive? How much functionality do the pads have? What is the extent of the sampling? Is the VK organ from the Integra on there (so good organ sounds at last)? Are the SRX series sounds on there? What is the MIDI controller section like (love the addition of the direct DAW control, the Fantom G SHOULD have had that)?

They seem to be to be replacing the old Juno line, but are much much better. I also can't believe the weight. Very good, though I wonder what the action of the 61 key one will be like. The Fantom G's semi-weighted action is the best IMO, but at under 6 kilos I can't see it being as good. For me the FA-08 is of the most interest. My last comment is in 2010 when I decided to drop MainStage and try hardware again I was disappointed by how far behind the keyboard were from software at the time, and the only things that would do all I wanted were the big workstations. Now things have changed, and if either of these had been out then, it probably would have been a no brainer to buy one.


Edited by Leh173 (01/15/14 07:59 PM)
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#2561913 - 01/16/14 05:43 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Leh173]
joegerardi Offline
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Not for me. No aftertouch, so sale.

We are letting the companies get away with this. The keyboard is our interface to the music, not the layout. They keep trying to make the layout do more, and the keyboards do less. The feel is getting worse, the performance is getting worse, the quality of the keybed is getting worse, and the features (i.e.: aftertouch) are disappearing.

And we still buy them.

Look: if Kawai could market the K1, and Yamaha the DX11 with aftertouch back then for a grand, then the other companies can do it now. I understand that simple keyboard players don't care about it, but musicians absolutely do, and as such, expect to see it in the keyboards they buy. Why am I forced to always buy the top-end workstation just to get aftertouch, paying hundreds more for features I *don't* need or want (can you say Karma?) just to get aftertouch?

It's akin to guitarists: imagine how a guitar touted as a "performance instrument" (as this is) would sell today if they omitted the wiggle stick...

..Joe
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#2561931 - 01/16/14 06:42 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: joegerardi]
Mr T, Sweden Online   content
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Joe - I must say you're overreacting quite a bit... Yes, mid-priced keyboards are loosing aftertouch. And sub $1000 are getting cheaper keybeds. But you don't have to buy a $4000 workstation just to get a decent feeling keyboard with aftertouch. If you think that is the case, I suggest you have another look at what's available.

The way I see it there are more manufacturars than ever before, producing more models that ever before, and last but not least the keyboards have more features than ever to a lower price - and at least hammer action keyboards feel more realistic than ever before...

The FA-06/08 are mid priced keyboards with tones of sounds and features. Somewhere they have to cut the cost. You won't get your dream, do-it-all keyboard for $1400, sorry!

(and Joe, when I look at your signature it doesn't seem like you need another 'board anyway, just saying...)
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#2561933 - 01/16/14 06:47 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: therealvicz]
Bill W Offline
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Originally Posted By: therealvicz
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
I actually have an FA-06 here at the moment. I'm reviewing it for Keyboard mag. thu

Just got it yesterday, so I haven't really dug into it yet....but from what I hear, I really like the way it sounds.

Still not sure how I feel about the super light weight thing in general yet. I've had several keyboards here for review that fall into that category (Kross, MOXF, VR-09), and my XK-1c is also way light weight. I guess as long as they stand up to the rigors of the road, it shouldn't be a problem.

dB


Can the samples be mapped across the keyboard?
Can the arpeggiator play the drum kits?
Is there a PC or iPad librarian app?
Can the over-50s read the display?

The people need to know smile


Good questions! The Sonic State review said no editor. However, I'm very curious to know whether this keyboard is a true sampler (i.e., multisamples can be mapped across the keyboard) or is it just a means to capture/playback bits of audio.

I just sold my pair of Fantom G6s and wouldn't mind having a lightweight Roland in my arsenal.




Edited by Bill W (01/16/14 06:48 AM)
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#2561945 - 01/16/14 07:41 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Mr T, Sweden]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tobbe
Yes, mid-priced keyboards are loosing aftertouch. And sub $1000 are getting cheaper keybeds. But you don't have to buy a $4000 workstation just to get a decent feeling keyboard with aftertouch.

My complaint is that there are so few lightweight boards with aftertouch anymore. Korg's last one was the TR, I think Yamaha's might have been the S30, and Roland the XP-30. It's not just that you have to buy pricier boards, but that you have to buy heavier ones. And if you want aftertouch on a lightweight 73/76? I think the Nord Stage 2 is the only game in town, and it doesn't have a low E! There's no modern equivalent of a Korg TR-76 or Roland JV-90, unfortunately.
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#2561954 - 01/16/14 07:52 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: AnotherScott]
Dana. Offline
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deadhorse deadhorse

From the NAMM rumors thread:

Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Considering the way music is made and performed these days, I think the amount of people demanding aftertouch is pretty small.


Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
You sir are correct.
And I don't necessarily mean this in a "kids these days with their drum machines and auto-tune" either.
Tons of gigging players in wedding/blues/rock/funk/jazz bands have little to no use for aftertouch.

One curious thing I found when I worked for a manufacturer - some keys players, after years of reading marketing blurbs and product spec sheets, have come to *think* that they need it... but then once they purchase a keyboard, actually rarely or never use it.

I would hazard a guess that most manufacturers include it not because it will be used by most players, but because it has come to be expected by customers on products above a certain price point.

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#2561973 - 01/16/14 08:43 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: Dana.]
DanL Offline
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I like having aftertouch, it's on 2 of the boards I use for gigs and I use it a lot. Could I get by without? Yes, and if the sound and features are good enough for the price, then it's something I might look past it not being there.

I'm intrigued by these new Rolands, and will take a closer look at them as more info becomes available. The main thing for me is being able to switch patches very quickly. I don't want to rearrange them for each show to put them in order. I want to be able to jump from program 1 to program 37 by pressing 2 buttons.

I don't want to rely on a tablet/laptop and some kind of set list software. This is the biggest feature of the Yamaha's, with the Master Mode, that keeps me buying them. The ability to select any patch in the keyboard and also to send out midi patch info to the rest of my rig with a couple button presses.
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#2561985 - 01/16/14 09:27 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: DanL]
richforman Offline
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I know what you mean, in fact I just started exploring/learning Master mode on my new MOXF8 last night and I am already sold, great functionality there and I think it will quickly become my patch-selection tool of choice for my whole rig for all my gigs.
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#2562013 - 01/16/14 10:48 AM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: joegerardi]
orangefunk Offline
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Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 3283
Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Not for me. No aftertouch, so sale.

We are letting the companies get away with this. The keyboard is our interface to the music, not the layout. They keep trying to make the layout do more, and the keyboards do less. The feel is getting worse, the performance is getting worse, the quality of the keybed is getting worse, and the features (i.e.: aftertouch) are disappearing.

And we still buy them.

Look: if Kawai could market the K1, and Yamaha the DX11 with aftertouch back then for a grand, then the other companies can do it now. I understand that simple keyboard players don't care about it, but musicians absolutely do, and as such, expect to see it in the keyboards they buy. Why am I forced to always buy the top-end workstation just to get aftertouch, paying hundreds more for features I *don't* need or want (can you say Karma?) just to get aftertouch?

It's akin to guitarists: imagine how a guitar touted as a "performance instrument" (as this is) would sell today if they omitted the wiggle stick...

..Joe


thu FWIW I don't think its an over reaction like another has said. I know there are keyboards even in the sub $1000 range that had superb key beds and aftertouch.. (Novation KS4 was about 349 pounds in the UK and is among the best I have ever played) but maybe the general punter just doesn't care like others have said…

For me I would think having more control is ever more important as bands get smaller and keyboard players have more on their plate to cover more roles… comping with the left hand and spinning out horn lines with suitable amounts of aftertouch has always been a lot of fun… and playing piano/bass splits and having vibrato available for the bass was always a crowd pleaser in the past…

Anyway… I have done my share of "aftertouch" posts for the year… smile

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#2562076 - 01/16/14 01:29 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: joegerardi]
Six-string-man Offline
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Loc: U.K.
Originally Posted By: joegerardi


It's akin to guitarists: imagine how a guitar touted as a "performance instrument" (as this is) would sell today if they omitted the wiggle stick...

..Joe



Sorry, can't leave this alone.

Gibson SG. Gibson ES series. The top seller, Gibson Les Paul. Not a " wiggle stick " in sight! smile


SSM
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#2562081 - 01/16/14 01:43 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: joegerardi]
BRW Offline
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Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 281
Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Not for me. No aftertouch, so sale.

..Joe


I know this has been discussed before, but I'm curious - what kind of music do you and others who are so adamant about this, play? And what are the uses that you like to have it for?

Because I've always felt that while it's "nice to have", it's certainly not an omission that's holding me back from buying a board. Or holding me back from playing, being creative on or enjoying one in the first place.

Actually, I even prefer using a wheel or a joystick for modulation needs on a keyboard that has AT, so maybe it's a habit, a preference.

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#2562110 - 01/16/14 02:45 PM Re: Roland FA-06 and FA-08 [Re: AnotherScott]
Mr T, Sweden Online   content
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Korg's last one was the TR, I think Yamaha's might have been the S30, and Roland the XP-30.
...I think the Nord Stage 2 is the only game in town, and it doesn't have a low E.

Funny, I have all of the above, except the Yamaha. Yes, the TR76 is a really nice board! If I should complain about something it would be the keyboard feel, it's very light, yet very playable, but a bit more resitance would be nice! The other thing is that is very long... And the end caps are rounded, so you don't want it to leave it standing on one end leaning against the wall... And because it's long, yet very slim it's hard to find a keyboard gigbag with the proper fit
So... I guess you're right about the missing mid priced 76 key boards, strange and a bit sad. I'm hoping this will change.
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