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#2852468 - 04/28/17 02:43 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: hardware]
KRK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Italy
ciao!

--> another test <--

just an experiment, in order to understand how the keyclick and percussion react with different rotary speakers. hope this should be useful for next upgrades laugh

keyclick sounds "false" with internal rotary simulation, but it is great with the BURN (maybe the best rotary sim at the moment).
and the same keyclick becomes "REAL" with a real rotary cabinet and tube amplifier (the Tornado, with 147/122 amp)!!!!

so the pure tone generator is correct, and it seems that something wrong with the HX3 rotary sim needs to be adjusted. it produces a sort of "doubling" effect with the keyclick.

the internal 028/tube amp gain simulations sound really good!
(but, still, a real tube-amped rotary cabinet MAKE the difference laugh )

cheers


Edited by KRK (04/29/17 03:20 AM)

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#2852527 - 04/29/17 01:19 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: hardware]
1203 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
I also tried the setting with rotary balance at 65 and for me it sounds really good. Better than the default setting on 100. In general for my taste the Leslie sim in the hx3/ Uhl sounds not as warm as for example the Neo Vent. Perhaps more bass rotor emphasis will get more warmth and "woodness" into the hx sim...? Please excuse my bad english!


Edited by 1203 (04/29/17 02:45 AM)
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#2852555 - 04/29/17 06:58 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: The_Star_Guy]
DiversiOrgan Offline
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Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 58
Loc: Woodlyn, PA
I am sorry to say that the XK2 doesn't fully work with the HX3 do to the NRPN and SysEx of the XK2. Most buttons work, you need to dial in the Rotary (Leslie) Control CC number and then the Drawbars do not control the HX3. Only Presets for the Upper, Lower/Pedal. Split works. I have an XK2 here that I sometimes use for testing.

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#2852601 - 04/29/17 09:55 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: DiversiOrgan]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 405
Originally Posted By: DiversiOrgan
I am sorry to say that the XK2 doesn't fully work with the HX3 do to the NRPN and SysEx of the XK2. Most buttons work, you need to dial in the Rotary (Leslie) Control CC number and then the Drawbars do not control the HX3. Only Presets for the Upper, Lower/Pedal. Split works. I have an XK2 here that I sometimes use for testing.


Using a midisolutions event processor would be a workaround for this. Not a cheap solution though.

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#2852608 - 04/29/17 10:11 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: TomKittel]
LX88 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
Nice to hear from Diversi about the XK-2 which is what I am using to control the HX3.

I get drawbars with split function, expression pedal and presets. I can set percussion parameters with the presets fairly well.

I am not sure how they set up the XB-2 package for the HX3, but it would seem to make more sense for that to be done to the XK-2 because there seem to be more of them.

Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't the XK-2 newer than the XB-2?

Advantage of the XK-2 is that the XK-2 keys feel great and there is plenty of real estate on top of it.

For now I can make what's there work. I don't know how people control other parameters anyway.... it would be nice to assign some control like tube drive, percussion volume etc. You can't have everything.

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#2852610 - 04/29/17 10:16 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
LX88 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
Also CV is panning out MUCH better in this 4.22 edition I have.

Summing to mono is making a big difference for me for basic CV.Not sure how to easily get to fast leslie speed from there, but one thing at a time.

Some important parameters on the CV editing are - Scanner Gear setting, CV modulation and definitely Line Box Level. So I am getting pretty close. I may post setting when I have the unit in front of me.

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#2852652 - 04/29/17 03:36 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
hardware Offline
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Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 940
Loc: Nashville, TN.
A friend of mine uses just the drawbars out L/R, no dirt, he claims CV brings in plenty, uses a DIY Tube pre, then goes to his Stereo Vent.
He doesn't get rock tones but he has an impressive sound.

He claims the HX-3 was too dirty, wanted his own dirt and Rotary.
He's really old school McGriff and Smith.
His feet are so good he jams solo to a drum box.
Ancient Roland Bass Pedals.

I think you'll be glad to shrink your rig down.
Nothing beats a real Hammond Leslie, but having just the right tonewheel and Vibrato is a big head start.
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#2852667 - 04/29/17 06:55 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: hardware]
LX88 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
That sounds interesting. Everyone has their own spin, and everyone wants something a little different.

I like third harmonic slow decay. I use fast decay with a real leslie or leslie sim, but with CV I use slow decay about 99 percent of the time .

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#2852676 - 04/29/17 09:52 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
hardware Offline
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Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 940
Loc: Nashville, TN.
MIDI CC# allows me to change that too.
I never use the 2nd but have 3 x CC#'s for percussion.
1 for switching fast/slow, and 2 for duration.
And, yes, I spent lots of time automating parameters for HX-3.

Grateful that KeyboardPartners graced us with such control.
I've got the sound of several Hammonds.
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#2852688 - 04/30/17 01:31 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
analogholic Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: LX88
Also CV is panning out MUCH better in this 4.22 edition I have.

Summing to mono is making a big difference for me for basic CV.Not sure how to easily get to fast leslie speed from there, but one thing at a time.

Some important parameters on the CV editing are - Scanner Gear setting, CV modulation and definitely Line Box Level. So I am getting pretty close. I may post setting when I have the unit in front of me.


Good to hear that you are getting closer with the C/V...and that you gave the HX3 another shot
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#2852689 - 04/30/17 01:38 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: analogholic]
analogholic Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 761
Aaah, got reminded of something that I wanted to ask you B3-experts for a while...

I never played a B3 except for a very short moment on a soundcheck many years ago...

When I play the VB3, I hear what I can describe as a short "release" after each note played. Itīs very pleasant to my ears and playing. Is this something that happens in real Hammonds? Canīt hear this in other clones like Nord, HX3 etc.
Did VB3 get this right?


Edited by analogholic (04/30/17 01:40 AM)
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#2852729 - 04/30/17 08:12 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: analogholic]
davedoerfler Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 5960
Loc: thin ice
if you are asking about VB3 this is the wrong thread.
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#2852734 - 04/30/17 08:31 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: analogholic]
mate stubb Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
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Originally Posted By: analogholic

When I play the VB3, I hear what I can describe as a short "release" after each note played. Itīs very pleasant to my ears and playing. Is this something that happens in real Hammonds? Canīt hear this in other clones like Nord, HX3 etc.
Did VB3 get this right?


You encounter key click on release also, yes. It's not as prominent as on attack.
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#2853298 - 05/02/17 06:40 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: mate stubb]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
It's looking like the HX3/ Hammond XK-2 match has its merits after all.

I did a "shootout" between the HX-3 and the Crumar Mojo 61 earlier today with the XK-2 as controller.

I preferred the XK-2 keys to the ones on the Mojo. They are less stiff....and a bit more effortless to play.

I am having the same issue with the Mojo that I was having with the HX3. I can't seem to bypass the sim in the Mojo. And it's not real clear from the manual how bypass is achieved.

Stop on the Mojo still sounds like the CV is in stereo to me. Which makes the percussion sound weird, particularly on slow decay.

I do have a mono send from the HX3, and I have gotten pretty close although I am not sure I trust my ability to successfully tweak those parameters. The Mojo CV does sound smooth, but I am hearing in stereo and that is different than a tonewheel Hammond.

Did Mitch write the Mojo 61 manual?

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#2853330 - 05/03/17 12:41 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
Kurt W Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 192
Originally Posted By: LX88
I am having the same issue with the Mojo that I was having with the HX3. I can't seem to bypass the sim in the Mojo. And it's not real clear from the manual how bypass is achieved.

To bypass the sim: Toggle by pressing SHIFT and CABINET ON simultanously

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#2853351 - 05/03/17 05:25 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: davedoerfler]
analogholic Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 761
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
if you are asking about VB3 this is the wrong thread.


Actually I was asking how a real B3 behaves, but ok, guess it's the wrong thread.
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#2853394 - 05/03/17 09:10 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: analogholic]
davedoerfler Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 5960
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: analogholic
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
if you are asking about VB3 this is the wrong thread.


Actually I was asking how a real B3 behaves, but ok, guess it's the wrong thread.


re read your post and understand better now. I believe Mate Stubb answered your question.
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#2853421 - 05/03/17 03:03 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: davedoerfler]
Mitch Towne Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 919
I did not write that manual.

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#2853425 - 05/03/17 03:36 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: Mitch Towne]
Bill R Adams Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/13/15
Posts: 32
I was ready to sell my HX3 because of the C/V. I have to send mine back for updates as I have a Mac. I am at 4.22 and no longer considering selling. The C/V is way better! As soon as I got it back they soon had the 4.25 update. I know I can run virtual PC but don't want to have to spend the money on windows plus something to run it. May be I can find a friend willing to let me use their PC to update. How easy is it to update? I saw the links and I guess I use Flash update for my module. I have heard you can turn your HX3 into a brick if not done correctly.
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#2853447 - 05/03/17 05:40 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: Bill R Adams]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
I am going to spend more time with this Mojo before going back to the HX3 CV issue.

The Mojo CV IN MONO. Definitely good. In fact so goods that there would be no need to "upgrade" to something like the new Key B as far as the CV stuff goes.

The Mojo keys would take some getting used to . Not quite the same as the new Numa 2. The XK-2 is preferable at the moment... I don't feel that much change since the Numa 1 on the TP-80 - damn.

HX3 and Mojo both have good leslie sim. I like the HX3 sim very much... love the overdrive. Both the HX3 and Mojo affect third percussion a bit more than I would like. Gotta mess with the Mojo sim a bit.

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#2853448 - 05/03/17 05:41 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: Bill R Adams]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
Double post

Mitch I am glad you didn't write that manual! There are some 40 word sentences in there.

I need a little more " see spot run" when I get a new instrument and want to hear it.


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#2853450 - 05/03/17 05:45 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
AnotherScott Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10610
Originally Posted By: LX88
IThe Mojo keys would take some getting used to . Not quite the same as the new Numa 2.

Interesting, as there was some speculation that they might be using the same action. It's rare to find someone who has actually played both. How would you characterize the difference?
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#2853463 - 05/03/17 08:24 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: AnotherScott]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
The Mojo 61 feels a lot like my Numa 1.

The Numa 2 I played had a lighter quicker action.

I am curious if they put a stock TP 80 in this.

Mitch has played both. He had a Numa 2 for a minute if I recall.

My Numa is down right now, but in a lot of ways it resembles this Mojo. I haven't gotten to the 20 or so sampled organs, but I don't sense a tremendous difference in the upper register that Mitch describes. CV sounds very similar.

The thing about the Mojo CV is it's definitely got a " hear no evil" thing about it. The HX3 makes me nervous about getting a parameter wrong. With the Mojo there's no need to mess with it.

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#2853466 - 05/03/17 08:36 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
Mitch Towne Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 919
I'd talk some about the keybeds but we are getting off topic from the HX3. So, to keep it somewhat on topic, I can say that I definitely prefer the CV in the Mojo to the CV in the HX3.

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#2854701 - 05/11/17 02:52 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: Mitch Towne]
KRK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Italy
ciao,

some new test with my HX3 and Tornado Rotary...
(low volume, at home)

Tube Amp saturation

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#2854783 - 05/11/17 09:31 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: KRK]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
I was asked the question above about keybeds, so I gave my impression of the Mojo TP-80 vs. the XK-2. I was definitely able to get the XK-2 drawbars to interface with the HX3.

Back to HX3 stuff. I had to put it down for awhile. I possibly need some help with some default parameters for the CV...because I feel that one thing can possibly cancel out something else if you don't know what you are doing with this.

You have different vibrato speeds and intensities etc. I tried using the Mojo as a comparison but then there is the issue of getting the HX3 to play in mono through the mixer. It seems to only come out of one channel to get mono CV.

I was definitely spending to much time with it and put it on the shelf for a while.

I do like the HX3 sim and overdrive. That seems to be where its strength lies. If you are going for that grunge thing it does it about as well as anything I have used. The sim is nice too....

I am able to use it fairly well using presets also.

A lot of bang for the buck. I just wish I knew what the heck I was doing with the CV.

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#2857933 - 05/29/17 05:53 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: LX88]
ob1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 45
Loc: PA - United States
What are folks here with an HX3 or HX3-Drawbar Expander (DBe) using for 1/2 moon switches to control the rotary speed?

I got the HX3 DBe this past week (took advantage of the "trade-in" program from Diversi) and what a GREAT experience using the DBe provides over the HX3 plexi!!! Tom was a real pleasure to work with as well. He is an incredibly knowledgeable guy with tons of experience and some really great stories.

Thank you, Luis.
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#2858039 - 05/29/17 06:04 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: KRK]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 298
can that power amp be bought separate ?

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#2858100 - 05/30/17 06:48 AM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: bill bosco]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3832
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: bill bosco
can that power amp be bought separate ?


Iīm curious whoīs selling Tornado products in germany and if there is a service center available.
The 115 w/ separate tubeamp sounds great !

A.C.

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#2858169 - 05/30/17 12:05 PM Re: HX3 MIDI expander module [Re: Al Coda]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1715
After the past few years of frustration... I finally got a decent CV effect from the HX3.

There are still a few issues in the extreme upper register but for the most part it's working quite well.

I don't have the unit in front of me now, but I can say that the "scanner gears" setting and the "Modulation" are pretty much all the way up.

Once again I have to confess.... I do not understand what some of the CV settings actually do, So it's possible I could do even better. But I can get through a playing session now and not feel like there is something that has to change.

The thing I am liking about the HX3 is the clarity. And the leslie sim is also excellent, though for some reason I am losing percussion ( 3rd) in the upper register to some degree when the sim is on.

Also...when I use the mono setting ( I always use it for CV ) there is no tube gain or whatever they call the overdrive effect. I don't get that... but I like the clean sound for now.

So this edition ( 4.22) may be a keeper. I would love to communicate with someone who knows more about these CV parameters. \

At this point I would give a very slight edge to the Mojo CV, but I am preferring the HX3 leslie sim and overdrive over the Mojo.

Also... the flexibility of using different controllers make the HX3 fun to use. I am looking forward to setting up dual manuals, which I hope can be easy with the HX3.

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