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What doesnt the XK-1C have? #2539245 10/27/13 08:01 PM
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Mogut Offline OP
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Studying the specs on the 3 models, XK-3c, SK1, XK-1C the glaring features pop out... but im worried if i go with the XK-1C i will realize it doesnt have some valued features that I will miss

looking for the small stuff i guess, any quick ones you guys can throw at me?


-Greg
Motif XS8, MOXF8, Hammond XK1c, Vent
Rhodes Mark II 88 suitcase, Yamaha P255
KC Island
Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: Mogut] #2539257 10/27/13 09:43 PM
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Not being snarky Greg, but what is on your list of features you want/expect?

Are you looking for input as far as intangibles, such as feel or sounds which are relative to each user.

I had an SK1 73 I returned for an SK2 , both key beds suit me fine, the internal rotary sim is good enough for the band and the audience, although I like my MS Pro45 if I have the room to set it up.
Sounds like the extra voices are not a make or break with you, so your concentrating on the Hammond sound?

You probably have done the spreadsheet on the specs and features .Jim A says the SK1 will receive an OS update to include some of the features of the XK1C, I wish the SKs had more instant preset locations, though.


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Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: HAM&EGZ] #2539263 10/27/13 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: HAM & EGZ
I wish the SKs had more instant preset locations, though.

They should implement something like what Korg did with their old "10's hold" feature, so that the ability to use the ten Favorite buttons could easily be re-assgned on the fly to different sets of ten sounds. i.e. You'd use a modifier-button and a Favorite button to select one of ten banks (presets 1-10, 2-20, 3-30, etc.), and then after that, the ten buttons would instantly select the ten sounds from within that bank of presets.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: HAM&EGZ] #2539264 10/27/13 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: HAM & EGZ
I wish the SKs had more instant preset locations, though.


The SK's can have the 10 Favorites buttons set to act as a 10 digit keypad so all 200 Patches can be called up instantly. The XK-1c has 64 User and 64 Preset Patches and an 8 button number pad that can be used the same way.

Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: JMcS] #2539268 10/27/13 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: JMcS
Originally Posted By: HAM & EGZ
I wish the SKs had more instant preset locations, though.


The SK's can have the 10 Favorites buttons set to act as a 10 digit keypad so all 200 Patches can be called up instantly. The XK-1c has 64 User and 64 Preset Patches and an 8 button number pad that can be used the same way.


right it does and you have to program the function of those keys in a setup so it functions as a keypad, or memory location or an association.What we were hoping for is a matrix of banks and locations for at least a two press operation.

I tried the direct keypad setup and you have to either remember the voice to location number or have a cheat sheet,still not as fast as pushing a button or two for a bank of patches set up for a set or songs..


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Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage
Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: HAM&EGZ] #2539279 10/28/13 12:08 AM
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What does it not have?

A second set of drawbars.
A traditional Hammond control interface.
A Keybed that feels like the real thing.
Pitch/Mod wheels
Real tube overdrive

What does it have?

An authentic B3 sound.


'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: HammondDave] #2539282 10/28/13 12:28 AM
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Reverse color preset keys. I *SO* love those on my XK3.

Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: Mogut] #2539288 10/28/13 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: Greg Gallant
Studying the specs on the 3 models, XK-3c, SK1, XK-1C the glaring features pop out... but im worried if i go with the XK-1C i will realize it doesnt have some valued features that I will miss

looking for the small stuff i guess, any quick ones you guys can throw at me?

The list of what the XK-1C doesn't have will differ depending on whether you're comparing it to the XK-3C or the SK1.

The two posts above mine focus on differences from the XK-3C, and those would also include the tube and the ability to add a matched second manual.

Versus the SK1, as mentioned, fewer stock and user presets, and obviously, the loss of the extra voices. Also the front panel adjustments for overall EQ, the USB song player, and some buttons... i.e. you lose the dedicated cursor buttons, and re-purpose the patch select buttons instead. Also, the SK1 has two foot switches, typically for Leslie toggle (though reassignable) and damper, The XK1c loses the damper pedal (though it lets you reassign the other foot switch to that purpose if you want). That could be more of an issue if you're also using the organ as a MIDI controller, and may want, for example, a sustain pedal for some EP sound you're triggering, while still maintaining a separate pedal for rotary toggle.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: HAM&EGZ] #2539290 10/28/13 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: HAM & EGZ
Originally Posted By: JMcS
Originally Posted By: HAM & EGZ
I wish the SKs had more instant preset locations, though.


The SK's can have the 10 Favorites buttons set to act as a 10 digit keypad so all 200 Patches can be called up instantly. The XK-1c has 64 User and 64 Preset Patches and an 8 button number pad that can be used the same way.


right it does and you have to program the function of those keys in a setup so it functions as a keypad, or memory location or an association.What we were hoping for is a matrix of banks and locations for at least a two press operation.

I tried the direct keypad setup and you have to either remember the voice to location number or have a cheat sheet,still not as fast as pushing a button or two for a bank of patches set up for a set or songs..


Every solution has a problem. What is the difference between 10 Banks of 10 or 100 Patches? At some point a list would be needed for both. 100 Patches could be setup, named and saved for 100 songs. Or categorized in groups by EV and further by splits, effects or whatever.

Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: JMcS] #2539292 10/28/13 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: JMcS
What is the difference between 10 Banks of 10 or 100 Patches?

This gets back to my what I said earlier in the thread. The advantage of bank switching is that you start with 10 sounds you can get with a single button press, but you can switch to another bank, and have another set of 10 sounds you can get to with a single button press. With the straight 100 patch keypad approach, there are no sounds you can switch to with a single button press, it takes at least two and more often three button presses. That's the difference.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: AnotherScott] #2539322 10/28/13 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: JMcS
What is the difference between 10 Banks of 10 or 100 Patches?

This gets back to my what I said earlier in the thread. The advantage of bank switching is that you start with 10 sounds you can get with a single button press, but you can switch to another bank, and have another set of 10 sounds you can get to with a single button press. With the straight 100 patch keypad approach, there are no sounds you can switch to with a single button press, it takes at least two and more often three button presses. That's the difference.


I guess everybody's head works differently. I would find it far easier to catagorize the Patches I need something like:

1 - 9 AP
10 - 19 EP
20 - 29 Strings
30 - 39 Horns
Etc.

And maybe further arranged something like:
X1 - X6 no OD
X7 - X9 OD
X1 - X2 Effect A
X3 - X4 Effect B
X5 - X6 Effect C
X7 - Effect A
X8 - Effect B
X9 - Effect C

and be able to hit 2 buttons than have to remember which Bank I'm in and which Bank I have to change to. I only use the Favorites buttons to change EVs, I have all the organ related Patch load information turned off.

Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: JMcS] #2539323 10/28/13 09:01 AM
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Why is there another thread on this. We have an XK-1C thread already.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: Outkaster] #2539324 10/28/13 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Why is there another thread on this. We have an XK-1C thread already.


This one gives people the opportunity to list perceived complaints and weaknesses while only "answering" the question.

Re: What doesnt the XK-1C have? [Re: JMcS] #2539332 10/28/13 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: JMcS
I guess everybody's head works differently. I would find it far easier to catagorize the Patches I need something like:

1 - 9 AP
10 - 19 EP
20 - 29 Strings
30 - 39 Horns
Etc.

So every time you need to switch from a piano patch to a string patch, or from a string patch to a horn patch, you have to press 3 buttons? Do-able, and better than systems where you have to scroll to them, but definitely not the most desirable way to go for me.

If you like the idea of some kind of "mnemonic" consistency, so that (to the extent practical) every *something* patch is a *something* (i.e. every 2x patch is strings, every 3x patch is horns as you described above), I would do it the opposite "direction" to facilitate the one-button selection within a bank option. Like...

Every "1" sound in a set of ten (first sound in a bank... 1, 11, 21, 31) is an AP
Every "2" sound is an EP
Every "3" sound is a string
Every "4" sound is a horn
etc.

In a way, this is what I do with my Yamaha in my most common working mode. There are 16 direct patch select buttons, laid out 8 over 8. Each "column" is a category. Button #1 is my most grand piano; directly under it, Button #9, is my honky tonk piano. So "Column 1" are my pianos. Column 2 are my EPs, Rhodes over Wurli. I have string ensemble over solo violin, brass ensemble over trumpet, tonewheel over tranny organ, and so on. It's not 100% consistent... there are times I kind of need three of something, and I can't fit every often-used sound into a single bank of 16, so I overflow into a second, but it's a little helping scheme.

So I do understand wanting to create patterns, but my priority is to be able to get from one sound to another in as few button presses as possible. My most common sounds are all in the first bank, and for lots of gigs, I spend 75% of my time in the first bank, picking sounds with a single button, with occasional forays into the second bank. I can get to the second bank with a single button press (likewise back to the first), so it's no more than two button presses to get to any sound, and most of the time, I can get to the next sound I want with one press. I actually duplicate a couple of my most common patches in both banks 1 and 2, so I can *always* get to those with a single button press.

The thing is, in the middle of a song, sometimes you barely have time for one button press, basically all you have is an "and" of a beat. So there is a significant difference in usability between 1 press and 3.

Now, in reading the Hammond manual, it looks like you can assign a shortcut to the CONTROL button, such that hitting it will take you right to the page that lets you toggle between single-press mode (instant access to 10 sounds) and 10-key-keypad mode. So the way I would use the SK1 would be to usually maintain single button access to my ten most frequent sounds, and use that Control button to toggle into keypad-mode when I needed to dial up some sound outside the first ten. So I'd have one-button access to sounds most of the time, but still have a reasonably workable non-scroll way to get to my other sounds as needed (I'm not sure how many button presses would be required to toggle from one mode to the other). But I would still find it useful to have a way to "lock" the ten buttons into different sets of 10 single-button sounds.

Another nice benefit of locking the buttons into different sets of ten (or in the case of the Yamaha, 16) is that you can create special purpose banks, that still give you one-button access to the sounds you need for that purpose. For example, you can have a bank of "this is the set of 10 sounds I call up when we do our Beatles set" or "this is the set of ten sounds I most need when I sub with that blues band." And there's nothing wrong with a little cheat sheet listing what those ten sounds are, if you need it.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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