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#2527350 - 09/13/13 04:50 PM Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4
The Piano Man Offline
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Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 92
These two recent releases seem to be at competing price points and with similar feature sets.

Which would you choose, and why?
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#2527353 - 09/13/13 05:19 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: The Piano Man]
Moonglow Offline
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That could shape up to be a good showdown. Really look forward to some hands-on time with both.
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#2527354 - 09/13/13 05:22 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: The Piano Man]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7378
With the caveat that I haven't laid a finger on either one of them, I can say that, personally, I'd pick the Yamaha for the lighter weight and better action (better action assumed based on playing a CP5 which should be in the ballpark of a CP4, and a couple of TP100 based boards that should be in the ballpark of the Kurz).

That said, the Kurz has a couple of major advantages of its own... the KB3 drawbar organ mode, and the availability of those sliders as real time controls for other sounds. It's not a slam dunk. We'll have to see how the actual piano sound compares.

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#2527401 - 09/14/13 12:38 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
allan_evett Offline
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Registered: 03/18/09
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With the advent of the CP4, I've been curious about how the two might compare.
While there is only a single new piano tone in the Artis ( vs. the CP4's new CFX and revamped S6 Voices), it's quite a massive and detailed piano, plus there is a lot that can be done with the instrument that isn't quite the same on the CP4:
It has a competitive, modeled organ engine, Kore64 tones, and a basically a 'best of PC3' soundset. From the demos I've heard it sounds professionally competitive with the CP4. That said, the CP4 does seem to be quite a strong digital piano that also incorporates a 'tried and true' synth engine.
I doubt that I'll be able to play both instruments for comparison - especially in my particular market, at this time. But it will be interesting to hear what fellow players have to say about these two keyboards..
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#2527486 - 09/14/13 11:06 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: allan_evett]
David Loving Offline
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Where might I test drive them. Why compare them on paper? idk
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#2527494 - 09/14/13 11:22 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: David Loving]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 588
When I was gigging with the Numa Piano, the TP100 was an acceptable tradeoff for a super-lightweight board. I would not purchase any 40+lbs board with that action. Between those two, it would be CP4 all the way for me. If I wanted KB3, I'd buy a used PC361 as a second tier.
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#2527559 - 09/14/13 07:51 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: voxpops]
Aidan Online   content
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The weight is the big differentiator for many of us, myself included.

Personally, I think Yamaha has clocked the popularity of the Casio Privias (and, to a lesser extent, the Nord Piano and Stage) and has realised that people no longer want to haul 25kg pianos around. The majority of its potential customers for instruments at this price point are ageing weekend warriors for whom weight is getting to be a big factor. By the same token, I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of top-end Motifs isn't also significantly lighter.

I'm going to seriously look at the CP4 once it arrives. The Stage is great as a one-board solution to take to many gigs, but it is a compromise on all fronts. The pianistic response available from the keybed is limited, and most of the piano samples sound thin at the top. The synth section samples sound pretty rudimentary compared with your average rompler. And I already have a PC361 for that stuff anyway.

Make or break for me could be mono performance – the CP5 in mono is abominable. Dave Ferris's brief experience of the CP4 in mono seems to point to better things. Let's hope so.
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#2527564 - 09/14/13 09:13 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Aidan]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Aidan
By the same token, I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of top-end Motifs isn't also significantly lighter.


I would be surprised if there was a next-gen Motif.

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#2527587 - 09/15/13 05:54 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: zephonic]
Marillion Offline
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Loc: UK
Voxpops...just wondered what your thoughts were on the CP4 given you seem quite happy with the Roland FP-50?

I was thinking of upgrading from an FP4-F for the slightly better action of the FP-50 but am now tempted by the CP4.

However the lack of speakers is a factor...I do have a pair of home stereo speakers that I use as monitors but it's nice to mix those with the onboard setup. Plus there are the quiet gigs where they also suffice quite nicely.

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#2527604 - 09/15/13 07:14 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Marillion]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 588
Originally Posted By: Marillion
Voxpops...just wondered what your thoughts were on the CP4 given you seem quite happy with the Roland FP-50?

I was thinking of upgrading from an FP4-F for the slightly better action of the FP-50 but am now tempted by the CP4.

However the lack of speakers is a factor...I do have a pair of home stereo speakers that I use as monitors but it's nice to mix those with the onboard setup. Plus there are the quiet gigs where they also suffice quite nicely.

Personally, if I had an FP-4F, I don't think I'd upgrade to the FP-50, with the improvements being so marginal.

My FP-50 is for solo/quiet gigs, and there are relatively few DPs with reasonably powerful built-in speakers that are also lightweight and have a high quality piano emulation.

I have not played the CP4, but if it lives up to expectations it could be a great gigging board. It's possible I might consider replacing my NP88 with it, mainly for the (potentially) better action, and therefore finger/sound connection.

The CP4's EPs are more detailed and more authentic than those in the FP-50, it also has more APs to choose from (not just variations); how those APs will play in comparison to Roland's SN piano remains to be seen. There is more functionality on the CP4's front panel, and the addition of pitch/mod wheels makes it more versatile. But it's not a self-contained solution. If you can get by without the things it lacks, it might be a nice upgrade from your FP-4F.
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#2527617 - 09/15/13 07:48 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: voxpops]
Marillion Offline
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Marillion
Voxpops...just wondered what your thoughts were on the CP4 given you seem quite happy with the Roland FP-50?

I was thinking of upgrading from an FP4-F for the slightly better action of the FP-50 but am now tempted by the CP4.

However the lack of speakers is a factor...I do have a pair of home stereo speakers that I use as monitors but it's nice to mix those with the onboard setup. Plus there are the quiet gigs where they also suffice quite nicely.

Personally, if I had an FP-4F, I don't think I'd upgrade to the FP-50, with the improvements being so marginal.

My FP-50 is for solo/quiet gigs, and there are relatively few DPs with reasonably powerful built-in speakers that are also lightweight and have a high quality piano emulation.

I have not played the CP4, but if it lives up to expectations it could be a great gigging board. It's possible I might consider replacing my NP88 with it, mainly for the (potentially) better action, and therefore finger/sound connection.

The CP4's EPs are more detailed and more authentic than those in the FP-50, it also has more APs to choose from (not just variations); how those APs will play in comparison to Roland's SN piano remains to be seen. There is more functionality on the CP4's front panel, and the addition of pitch/mod wheels makes it more versatile. But it's not a self-contained solution. If you can get by without the things it lacks, it might be a nice upgrade from your FP-4F.


True...I think the action is the big draw of the CP4 for me. I've become used to the FP4-F's action but it isn't the most inspiring.
However I don't think I'm going to need 45 piano variations to choose from either, so perhaps the CP40 would still be an improvement (since I don't really think wooden keys and graded actions matter too much).

Just thinking out loud here...

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#2527627 - 09/15/13 08:30 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Marillion]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7378
Originally Posted By: Marillion
However I don't think I'm going to need 45 piano variations to choose from either, so perhaps the CP40 would still be an improvement (since I don't really think wooden keys and graded actions matter too much).

The CP40 has a graded action as well. But the feel of the action is presumed to be substantially different. The CP40 seems to have the same action as the CP33, vs. the CP4 being a graded variation of the action from the CP5. Putting together pieces from a couple of threads, it also seems likely that the CP40 is a two-sensor board, and the CP5 is a triple.

There are a lot of other advantages to the CP4, as referenced in the main CP4 thread. Regardless of the number of variations, the CP40 has one basic piano sample in it (CFIII), the CP4 has three (adds S6 and CFX). Also numerous other additional sounds. Three-part vs. two-part for more flexible internal split/layer function (though I'm not sure yet of all the particulars). Internal power supply, balanced outs, second foot controller jack, more EQ.

On the other side of the lineup, if you don't need the newest piano sound and the wide variety of secondary sounds, a CP33 is still a lot less expensive than a CP40.


Edited by AnotherScott (09/15/13 09:25 AM)

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#2527651 - 09/15/13 09:20 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 588
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Regardless of the number of variations, the CP40 has one basic piano sample in it (CFIII), the CP4 has three (adds S6 and CFX). Also numerous other additional sounds.


Fixed! wink
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#2527653 - 09/15/13 09:25 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: voxpops]
AnotherScott Offline
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Whoops! Thanks for the catch, edited for the fix.

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#2527669 - 09/15/13 10:32 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
Marillion Offline
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Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 266
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Marillion
However I don't think I'm going to need 45 piano variations to choose from either, so perhaps the CP40 would still be an improvement (since I don't really think wooden keys and graded actions matter too much).

The CP40 has a graded action as well. But the feel of the action is presumed to be substantially different. The CP40 seems to have the same action as the CP33, vs. the CP4 being a graded variation of the action from the CP5. Putting together pieces from a couple of threads, it also seems likely that the CP40 is a two-sensor board, and the CP5 is a triple.

There are a lot of other advantages to the CP4, as referenced in the main CP4 thread. Regardless of the number of variations, the CP40 has one basic piano sample in it (CFIII), the CP4 has three (adds S6 and CFX). Also numerous other additional sounds. Three-part vs. two-part for more flexible internal split/layer function (though I'm not sure yet of all the particulars). Internal power supply, balanced outs, second foot controller jack, more EQ.

On the other side of the lineup, if you don't need the newest piano sound and the wide variety of secondary sounds, a CP33 is still a lot less expensive than a CP40.


I see the point about the actions, and this would tip me towards the CP4. But if the CFIII sample in the CP40 is good and basically lifted from the CP-5 (which is well thought of), I don't understand why you would recommend the older CP-33 over the CP40? Surely that's a much older sample?

You listed the advantages of adding the S6 and CFX...my point really was that if a piano sample is good enough I can live with just one! Which CP4 owner would, for example, take the CFIII sample over the CFX when the latter is newer and apparently better, with longer sustain?

I can maybe understand the tonal differences with the S6 but, on the whole, I would bet most of the 45 piano presets in the CP4 will lie unused by its owners. Most will just use CFX/S6.


Edited by Marillion (09/15/13 10:33 AM)
Edit Reason: misquote!

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#2527757 - 09/15/13 07:55 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Marillion]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: Marillion
[quote=AnotherScott]But if the CFIII sample in the CP40 is good and basically lifted from the CP-5 (which is well thought of), I don't understand why you would recommend the older CP-33 over the CP40? Surely that's a much older sample?

I'm not recommending the CP-33 over the CP-40. But it is a good value, and it does still have a good deal in common with the CP-40. I was pretty much extending the idea that, if you choose the CP-40 over the CP-4 largely because for $500 less, you're perfectly content not to have the latest piano sound sound, you can save another $700 if you go to the CP-33, and have a still older piano sound. ;-)

Originally Posted By: Marillion
You listed the advantages of adding the S6 and CFX...my point really was that if a piano sample is good enough I can live with just one! Which CP4 owner would, for example, take the CFIII sample over the CFX when the latter is newer and apparently better, with longer sustain?

Not everyone always agrees about which piano sound is better, or that the newest sound is always better. Or some people may prefer different sounds for different uses (i.e. rock vs. jazz or classical).

Originally Posted By: Marillion
I would bet most of the 45 piano presets in the CP4 will lie unused by its owners. Most will just use CFX/S6.

The 45 piano presets in the CP4 are 15 variations of CFX, 15 variations of S6, and 15 variations of CFIIIS. The CP40 gives you 15 variations of CFIIIS. Regardless of which piano someone chooses, I agree, many people will probably settle on one preset as their primary "go to" piano sound. But it's also nice to have variations, whether you need something brighter or mellower, honkytonk, whatever. But if you get the CP40, 15 piano sounds may sound like plenty to choose from, but they will all have a certain CFIIIS character. The CP4 gives you options that are more fundamentally different.

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#2527762 - 09/15/13 09:08 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
LX88 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1148
The previous post brings up a lot of questions ( for me )

1. Which sample does the CP-33 use?

2. Which Yamaha piano uses the S6 sample?

3. Which sample does the CP-5 use ?

Wasn't the CP-50 supposed to be similar to the sample in the CP-5, but without the wooden keys? I can't tell the players without a scorecard here.

Beyond that, I have become very used to the sample in the Yamaha Nocturne that I have, which I assume uses the same sample that is in the CP-33.

I can't find anything not to like about it, particularly after having lived with it for so long.

I actually seem to prefer it to the CP-5 sample, once again probably because I have heard it so much , it just has become a standard for me.

I agree that newer may not always be more preferable too, as I experienced with the recent Roland "upgrades". Once again was used to the Roland Superior Grand and I found that the Supernatural "upgrades" tended to focus a bit more on upper harmonic overtones, which often equate to me as being a little bit less realistic sounding.

Anyway, of course I am excited to hear what the new Yamahas have to offer. Can you imagine 45 different piano sample variations that actually sound good and useful? Let's hope that they are.

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#2527763 - 09/15/13 09:14 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: LX88]
LX88 Offline
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And as far as the Kurzweil Artis goes, I have never even seen one and they have been out for a while.

But then again the Casio PX-5S has not even made it to any of the stores near Portland Oregon as far as I know.

But I assume that we will be seeing some of the new Yamahas very soon due to the amount of clout that Yamaha seems to have.

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#2527812 - 09/16/13 06:10 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: LX88]
D-Bon Offline
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Originally Posted By: LX88
And as far as the Kurzweil Artis goes, I have never even seen one and they have been out for a while.

No one has seen one, because they haven't shipped.

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#2527817 - 09/16/13 06:36 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: D-Bon]
Bif_ Offline
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Registered: 05/16/09
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Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Originally Posted By: LX88
And as far as the Kurzweil Artis goes, I have never even seen one and they have been out for a while.

No one has seen one, because they haven't shipped.


Getting your hands on one of these (to demo) may be quite difficult. I live in the Louisville, KY metropolitan area and the closest Kurz rep is in Ohio.

IMO this is a big problem for Kurzweil. They really need floor space in a big box music retailer (Sam Ash or Guitar Center) to compete.

Greg
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#2527819 - 09/16/13 06:45 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Aidan]
Bif_ Offline
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Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 646
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Aidan
The weight is the big differentiator for many of us, myself included.

The majority of its potential customers for instruments at this price point are ageing weekend warriors for whom weight is getting to be a big factor.


+1

I took my PC3X out over the weekend (something I rarely do) and it is at the limit of what I can move by myself. I don't have a roller bag for it (a huge problem) but taking it up and down steps is tiring as well as schlepping it into the trunk.

I'm almost to the point of not taking it out of the house any more. It's a shame as it excels in several areas.

Greg
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#2527822 - 09/16/13 07:01 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Bif_]
D-Bon Offline
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Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 8016
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: Bif_
They really need floor space in a big box music retailer (Sam Ash or Guitar Center) to compete.

They do. Or at least they should. The Guitar Centers here have a PC3LE8 and a SP4-8 on the floor. The Sam Ash in Manhattan has a SP4-7 and possibly another Kurzweil (can't remember).

And if you're interested in how the Artis's TP100 action plays, the SP4-8 and Nord Electro HP have it. (There are other boards that use the TP100 but you're unlikely to find them on the floor at GC or SA.)

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#2527823 - 09/16/13 07:01 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: LX88]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7378
Originally Posted By: LX88
Which Yamaha piano uses the S6 sample?

CP1, CP5, S70XS, S90XS, Motif XF

All of those include CFIIIS samples as well.

Originally Posted By: LX88
Which sample does the CP-5 use ?

As you can deduce from the previous answer... S6 and CFIIIS.

Originally Posted By: LX88
Wasn't the CP-50 supposed to be similar to the sample in the CP-5, but without the wooden keys? I can't tell the players without a scorecard here.

There are a number of other differences, include the lack of the S6 sample in the CP50. Download the scorecard here:

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=usa.yamaha.com&asset_id=49126

BTW, it's not simply a matter of the keys being wooden, the keys on the CP5 feel entirely different from the CP50, for reasons that I suspect have little to do with the presence of the wood.

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#2527825 - 09/16/13 07:17 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: D-Bon]
drawback Offline
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Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Originally Posted By: LX88
And as far as the Kurzweil Artis goes, I have never even seen one and they have been out for a while.

No one has seen one, because they haven't shipped.


+1

These discussions never cease to amaze me.

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#2527830 - 09/16/13 07:28 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: drawback]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Originally Posted By: LX88
And as far as the Kurzweil Artis goes, I have never even seen one and they have been out for a while.

No one has seen one, because they haven't shipped.


+1

These discussions never cease to amaze me.

Kurzweil contributed to this confusion with their August 9 press release that said it was "now shipping." Maybe they meant that the units had been loaded up onto a very slow boat from China.

http://kurzweil.com/news/51/

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#2527832 - 09/16/13 07:33 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: D-Bon]
Bif_ Offline
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Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 646
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Originally Posted By: Bif_
They really need floor space in a big box music retailer (Sam Ash or Guitar Center) to compete.

They do. Or at least they should. The Guitar Centers here have a PC3LE8 and a SP4-8 on the floor. The Sam Ash in Manhattan has a SP4-7 and possibly another Kurzweil (can't remember).


Wow, not my experience. I've been in GC's (and to a lesser extent Sam Ash) in Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Kansas City, Nashville and St. Louis and NEVER saw a single Kurzweil.
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#2527837 - 09/16/13 07:52 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Bif_]
LX88 Offline
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Posts: 1148
The Artis hasn't even been shipped? As I recall, its debut was at Musicmesse, which happened in spring. So I assumed it was at least out there somewhere.

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#2527846 - 09/16/13 08:11 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Bif_]
D-Bon Offline
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Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 8016
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: Bif_
Originally Posted By: D-Bon
They do. Or at least they should. The Guitar Centers here have a PC3LE8 and a SP4-8 on the floor. The Sam Ash in Manhattan has a SP4-7 and possibly another Kurzweil (can't remember).


Wow, not my experience. I've been in GC's (and to a lesser extent Sam Ash) in Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Kansas City, Nashville and St. Louis and NEVER saw a single Kurzweil.

Don't know what to tell you. A while back, Dave Weiser said the two models I mentioned were chosen specifically to be the floor models at GC.

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#2527847 - 09/16/13 08:13 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: LX88]
D-Bon Offline
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Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 8016
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: LX88
The Artis hasn't even been shipped? As I recall, its debut was at Musicmesse, which happened in spring. So I assumed it was at least out there somewhere.




You know what happens when you assume...

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#2527851 - 09/16/13 08:19 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: LX88]
Aidan Online   content
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Registered: 08/11/06
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It's listed by Bonners over here in the UK but they don't show availability on the website and as it's listed nowhere else here in Europe (including Thomann, who are usually among the first with new stuff), I assume it's not here yet. Over the pond, Kraft have it as "pre-order".

If it has the same action as the Nord Electro HPs, I'm rather baffled as to what makes the Artis so heavy, albeit it has 15 more keys. Not too fond of that action anyway, especially against the latest Yamahas.

Also, the Artis styling is pretty horrid - looks like something from the Studiologic stable around 1990, IMO.
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#2527854 - 09/16/13 08:55 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Aidan]
D-Bon Offline
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Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 8016
Loc: Brooklyn
Originally Posted By: Aidan
Also, the Artis styling is pretty horrid - looks like something from the Studiologic stable around 1990, IMO.

I think it's far from horrid. With the silver stripe, it's sort of a mix between the PC3X and CP4. At least it isn't "Kurzweil purple."

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#2527925 - 09/16/13 01:00 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: D-Bon]
jerrythek Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 705
Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Originally Posted By: Bif_
Originally Posted By: D-Bon
They do. Or at least they should. The Guitar Centers here have a PC3LE8 and a SP4-8 on the floor. The Sam Ash in Manhattan has a SP4-7 and possibly another Kurzweil (can't remember).


Wow, not my experience. I've been in GC's (and to a lesser extent Sam Ash) in Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Kansas City, Nashville and St. Louis and NEVER saw a single Kurzweil.

Don't know what to tell you. A while back, Dave Weiser said the two models I mentioned were chosen specifically to be the floor models at GC.

It's not as simple as "GC carries it or not." with over 200 stores in various markets, of differing size, they make decisions about which groups of stores to carry products in all the time. Some go into only the largest, most major markets, others go in a slightly wider, but still very select grouping, and so on. Only the most common, broadly appealing and in-demand products go into every store. So it makes sense that mid-town Manhattan is going to se a broader mix of products than smaller markets.

Just a quick peek behind the curtain...
:-)

Jerry

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#2527926 - 09/16/13 01:06 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: jerrythek]
Stokely Offline
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Registered: 12/15/12
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Loc: Florida
Even within an area it seems to be hit or miss. I find it strange that central fl doesn't have more of a selection in some brands/models. Yamaha cp5 and cp50 are fabled beasts to me. Kawai is not to be seen (unfortunately since I'd like to try the mp6), and Nord is all over the map on which models can be found. I see Kurzweil LE8s in every store around here but that's the only Kurz model, hopefully somebody will have the Artis.

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#2527932 - 09/16/13 01:29 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Stokely]
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#2527934 - 09/16/13 01:34 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: CEB]
Stokely Offline
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Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 569
Loc: Florida
That was in Tampa, right? I bought something there but can't remember what... To be fair I haven't really ventured out of Orlando as I don't have $ burning a hole in my pocket, and there's a few stores around here I haven't hit I'm sure.

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#2528003 - 09/16/13 04:59 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Stokely]
JakeJackson Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 42
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Even within an area it seems to be hit or miss. I find it strange that central fl doesn't have more of a selection in some brands/models. Yamaha cp5 and cp50 are fabled beasts to me. Kawai is not to be seen (unfortunately since I'd like to try the mp6), and Nord is all over the map on which models can be found. I see Kurzweil LE8s in every store around here but that's the only Kurz model, hopefully somebody will have the Artis.


Very few Kurzweil's or Kawai's here in Atlanta, either. It may be the entire Southeast. Not sure about Nashville, however.

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#2528212 - 09/17/13 09:55 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
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Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Kurzweil contributed to this confusion with their August 9 press release that said it was "now shipping." Maybe they meant that the units had been loaded up onto a very slow boat from China.
Kurzweil confirmed this morning that the Artis is shipping.

".. though like in the early periods of any new product shipment, different parts of the world receive initial shipments at different times. For any detailed eta in your area best to fill out a Sales request form online and that way the distributor on record can address local delivery times more accurately."
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#2528394 - 09/17/13 09:57 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
Tobbe Offline
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Loc: Örebro, Sweden
For us in Europe - Thomann now has both then CP4 and Artis listed, with shipping dates Nov 13 and Sept 30 respectively.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_cp4_stage.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/kurzweil_artis.htm
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#2528444 - 09/18/13 06:21 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Tobbe]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: mr Tobbe
For us in Europe - Thomann now has both then CP4 and Artis listed, with shipping dates Nov 13 and Sept 30 respectively.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_cp4_stage.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/kurzweil_artis.htm



Same price in EUR and incl. VAT in germany, hmmm ...
And the winner is ?

For me, it´s CP4 because of physically modelled e-pianos.
Bye-bye triple-strike.
I like my PC361 and the sound of the epianos, but the velocity sample jumps, mostly recognizable below middle C, are annoying.

Up to now, I also favourised the Physis Piano H1, but the price difference of 2 grand (EUR !) relativates my demands.
I think I´d be fine w/ CP4´s sampled acoustic and modelled electric pianos plus additional bread & butter sounds from Motif series.
I also like the look of CP4 very much, the sliders look the same than these on my old KX76 I still use and the KX88 I owned and I like it´s black and the grain leather texture on top.
I also expect this instrument will become tour-rider-standard device like the Motifs are.

A.C.
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#2528463 - 09/18/13 07:36 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Al Coda]
Goughy Offline
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Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 61
Loc: Ivins, UT
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

Bye-bye triple-strike.
I like my PC361 and the sound of the epianos, but the velocity sample jumps, mostly recognizable below middle C, are annoying.


I've read that the new piano sound in the Artis uses a 6-strike sample and not the old triple-strike. Whether this reduces the velocity jumps to an acceptable level for sensitive ears remains to be heard.
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#2528487 - 09/18/13 08:45 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Goughy]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: Goughy

I've read that the new piano sound in the Artis uses a 6-strike sample and not the old triple-strike. Whether this reduces the velocity jumps to an acceptable level for sensitive ears remains to be heard.


arrgh ...
When you re-read my post you´ll recognize I was talking about the electric pianos.

The NEW accoustic piano sample in the ARTIS is also the ONLY improvement in regards of sounds and vs. a PC3 model.
The electric pianos are the old ones.

I also think the Yamaha action is better than the Fatar TP-100.

In addition, electric pianos, for me, are more important than acoustic piano even I appreciate quality acoustic pianos in a DP.

A.C.
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#2528509 - 09/18/13 09:51 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Al Coda]
Goughy Offline
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Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 61
Loc: Ivins, UT
Yep. Sorry A.C. I need to practice my speed reading.

I thought (wrongly, it seems) that it was only the acoustic pianos that used triple-strike.

Of course I have not had a chance to play a Kurzweil recently. They are as rare as hen's teeth in the dealers near me. I hope they manage to display the Artis more widely.
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#2528512 - 09/18/13 09:59 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Goughy]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7378
Originally Posted By: Goughy
I thought (wrongly, it seems) that it was only the acoustic pianos that used triple-strike.

The acoustic pianos have three velocity layers (triple strike). I thought some of the EPs might have had more, though. The architecture is certainly capable of it, if the samples are there.

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#2528520 - 09/18/13 10:47 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
Dave Ferris Offline
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No matter how good the new Kurzweil German Grand sample sounds (and it does sound excellent on the online demos) , I'd still be at the mercy of the dreaded Fatar action. Something I've been longing to put in my rear view mirror for the last year and a half with the Nord. wink

For me it's a no brainer with the CP4, especially having already played it. That said, I think for a more all around, everything to everybody type keyboard--the Artis would probably fit the bill better.

Probably the best solution is to have both, and use them to best accommodate the particular gig description. smile cool
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#2528524 - 09/18/13 10:52 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: AnotherScott]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

The acoustic pianos have three velocity layers (triple strike). I thought some of the EPs might have had more, though. The architecture is certainly capable of it, if the samples are there.


Yes, there are some more layers in some electric pianos, but these don´t cover the entire range of the keyboard and in the left hand area, there are often only 2 samples audible,- soft or hard and some authentic noises in addition.
I have a hard time playing l.h. chords that way because there are always some notes not being audible in the mix even they play.

My old Roland/Rhodes mk80 is a better playable Rhodes even it´s not that authentic,- it´s a model already but not the best one.
The difference is simple,- no velocity jumps !

Yes, VAST offers 32-layer abilities,- but that costs lots of DSP and polyphony.
There is a reason why the programs in a PC3 are programmed the way they are,- the KURZ programmers/sound designers are very good.
When using Setups, which is KURZ´ "Performance Mode", the DSP power is needed for more programs and FX vs more layers in each program, that´s all.
The same rules for Song Mode.

Anyway,- I´m happy there´s a physical modelling instrument now offered for EUR 1.999.- incl. VAT and shipping and I think for every one who doesn´t own a Kurzweil up to now, the Artis is also an interesting instrument depending on the needs.
The new german grand in the Artis sounds pretty good IMO and most other PC3 type sounds are very usable.

I only have some probs w/ playability here and there and it could be it´s only me.

A.C.
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#2528525 - 09/18/13 10:58 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Al Coda]
JFP Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
...
Anyway,- I´m happy there´s a physical modelling instrument now offered for EUR 1.999.- incl. VAT and shipping ...


I'M sorry, but what did I miss ?? A physical modeling piano for € 1999 ; has the Physispiano H1 gone down in price ? Or is this a mixup ?

On the Artis TP-100 topic; as another reader noted, I too also fail to understand how Kurzweil managed to get the weight of the ARtis above 20kg, whilst all other TP100 based boards have one specification in common : low weight . A big sales pitch, since the coming of the PX5S

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#2528549 - 09/18/13 11:41 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: JFP]
poserp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 105
FWIW the soundware I'm working on for the PC3 series has a couple of "models" that can do various Rhodes-ish sounds (along with other sounds that get close to other kinds of e-pianos). The main goal is creating new sounds, but in the process I've discovered some of the "classics" in there as well (including, oddly enough, the Beat It "gong"). These are all based on synthesis, so no velocity jumps.

Which leads me to a question... Will the Artis load PC3 sounds? I've skimmed the manual but don't see anything about compatibility.


Edited by poserp (09/18/13 11:42 AM)
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#2528588 - 09/18/13 01:21 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: JFP]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
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Originally Posted By: JFP

I'M sorry, but what did I miss ?? A physical modeling piano for € 1999 ; has the Physispiano H1 gone down in price ? Or is this a mixup ?


Mixup.
Yamaha CP4 Stage has physical modelling electric pianos and costs EUR 1.999.- inkl. VAT and shipping @Thomann.

Physis Piano H1 has more modelling inside, the acoustic pianos and mallets are also physical models,- but it costs 3998.- EUR incl. VAT and shipping @Thomann.
These are the prices for germans and shipping inside germany.

Surprisingly, I like the modelled acoustic pianos more than the modeled electric pianos in all the Physis Piano demos I´ve seen and listened to.

So, if you´re after physical modelled acoustic piano and dislike the Yammi acoustic piano sample sets,- then Physis Piano H1 is for you.

For me, the Yammi CP4 seems to be perfect.

A.C.
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#2528851 - 09/19/13 11:59 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Al Coda]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 1408
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
I like my PC361 and the sound of the epianos, but the velocity sample jumps, mostly recognizable below middle C, are annoying.
There are generally three layers in the EP’s. To alleviate the velocity map jumping I created two additional layers by combining the soft EP with the medium EP and the Medium EP with the Hard EP; so in effect I use 5 layers: soft/soft-medium/medium/medium-loud/loud. I initially broke 1-127 velocity levels into 5 zone increments, assigning velocity 1-25 to soft, 26-50 to soft-medium, etc… up to 127. I also fooled around with the velocity jumps between those layers so that it was more gradual. On my EP’s you really have to strike the keyboard fairly hard (just like I had to do when I had my fender Rhodes) to get it ‘tiney’. Moving from soft to soft-medium is much less noticeable than the delivered Rhodes and the changes are more gradual. If I recall correctly I moved away from the 1-25 increments as well. So some velocity ranges are smaller than others and in some instances the medium-hard samples are extended (in other words it extends beyond the 75-100 velocity level). I fooled around with it till I got it the way I liked it which is what VAST allows you to do. I also used a FUN to do some things with the velocity and how the samples are employed. I no longer have that sample jump that you describe….
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#2528857 - 09/19/13 12:16 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 588
Of course, if you just want physically modeled EPs with zero layer jumps, you could pick up a used GEM RP-X for around $300, and add it to your existing rig - although it wouldn't win an authenticity contest against the CP4.
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#2528862 - 09/19/13 12:29 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 2877
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
There are generally three layers in the EP’s. To alleviate the velocity map jumping I created two additional layers by combining the soft EP with the medium EP and the Medium EP with the Hard EP; so in effect I use 5 layers: soft/soft-medium/medium/medium-loud/loud. I initially broke 1-127 velocity levels into 5 zone increments, assigning velocity 1-25 to soft, 26-50 to soft-medium, etc… up to 127. I also fooled around with the velocity jumps between those layers so that it was more gradual. On my EP’s you really have to strike the keyboard fairly hard (just like I had to do when I had my fender Rhodes) to get it ‘tiney’. Moving from soft to soft-medium is much less noticeable than the delivered Rhodes and the changes are more gradual. If I recall correctly I moved away from the 1-25 increments as well. So some velocity ranges are smaller than others and in some instances the medium-hard samples are extended (in other words it extends beyond the 75-100 velocity level). I fooled around with it till I got it the way I liked it which is what VAST allows you to do. I also used a FUN to do some things with the velocity and how the samples are employed. I no longer have that sample jump that you describe….


Hi Dave,- interesting read.
The KURZ is a deep engine and I like it´s qualities.
When I think about buying something different now, that doesn´t mean I´ll sell the Kurz, but I simply don´t have the time to program a lot in VAST and in depth.

But it is great a PC3 or PC3K model allows programming in depth.

Now we don´t talk PC3(K), we talk ARTIS,- right ?

IIRC, Dave Weiser said, ARTIS programs aren´t editable in depth like they are in a PC3(K) model.
If that´s true, we´d better double check if electric piano patches coming from PC3 will be editable the way you described or not in KURZ ARTIS.

A.C.
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#2528863 - 09/19/13 12:31 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: voxpops]
poserp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 105
I took a shot last night at synthesizing a Rhodes on my PC3; my patch mostly nailed the low end (needs just a tad more "bell" when playing softly) of the keyboard but I'm still working on the keys above middle C. I did it in three layers using some of the fun stuff I've discovered while making NXTP. When I have it fully licked I'll post the results here.
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#2528879 - 09/19/13 01:01 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Al Coda]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 1408
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
IIRC, Dave Weiser said, ARTIS programs aren´t editable in depth like they are in a PC3(K) model.
If that´s true, we´d better double check if electric piano patches coming from PC3 will be editable the way you described or not in KURZ ARTIS.A.C.
Yes, A.C., we would need to validate the editing capability. But if you could edit ARTIS the way I described above then you'd have both the improved 6 strike piano as well as an improved EP (it was the rhodes I concentrated on, the Wurli didn't exhibit this nearly as much of this behavior as the rhodes did). I also did similar fiddling with the acoustic piano, mixing soft and medium layers together and medium and hard layers together, but for the acoustic pianos I focused on areas of the piano where there were issues rather than completely across the board. I also removed the compression on the acoustic pianos which, for me, ruined the realism (kept the compression on the EP's however). I also thought the decays were too quick so I extended the decay envelopes using the grand piano in my living room as the model for decay. Finally, the soundboard effect was tied strictly to the sustain pedal; in reality you get soundboard even without the sustain pedal. So I was getting both sustain and soundboard with the sustain pedal on and neither on sustain off; I corrected this by changing the source of the soundboard to be on to some degree and increased (lengthened) with the sustain. I don't recall but I may have also used a FUN to accomplish this. I've done alot of work on the PC3 (hundreds of hours) but I like how it sounds including the triple strike piano. When I listen to recorded music I feel as though Kurzweil's Steinway sample sounds closer to recorded pianos than the Yamaha samples. Yamaha's sound too bright for my liking and IMO not as close to alot of recorded acoustic piano as my tweaked triple-strike, which sounds darker but IMO truer. I don't even want to get into the tweaking of the KB3/leslie that I've done; hundreds of hours on that alone.
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#2528915 - 09/19/13 02:20 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
The Piano Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 92
I am veering towards the Kurzweil with one caveat...

I own a Kurzweil SP4-7 and find the pianos to cut off way too short. To compare, on my Nord Stage 2, I love the pianos but hate them with the "long release" feature off. They remind me of the SP4-7, where the pianos seem to be cut unnaturally short.

Any idea if the Artis pianos solve this problem? Obviously, one does not notice it so much with legato playing or with the pedal. But any short staccato stabs or playing a piano vamp, it is SO OBVIOUS and not good in my opinion.

Any thoughts/help/advice appreciated
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#2528985 - 09/19/13 05:27 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 2877
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
But if you could edit ARTIS the way I described above ...


speculation up to now ...

Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave

... then you'd have both the improved 6 strike piano as well as an improved EP (it was the rhodes I concentrated on, the Wurli didn't exhibit this nearly as much of this behavior as the rhodes did).


well,- it´s hard, at least for me, to imagine there would be any improvement w/ sampling technology over physical modelling when it comes to sample velocity jumps issues.

Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave

I've done alot of work on the PC3 (hundreds of hours) ... I don't even want to get into the tweaking of the KB3/leslie that I've done; hundreds of hours on that alone.


Dave, I salute you for all your input, really,- but like most others, I myself don´t have the time to do the same.
In fact, I think it´s part of the work of Kurzweil sounddesigners and not the task of the customers.

To be true,- I was already pi##ed because the factory patches not being leveled better.

When it comes to the "bread & butter" sounds,- I want to work these out of the box because I have enough to do w/ programming the synth sounds I need.

I´m pretty sure,- the Yammi CP4, for me, is the better deal than the Kurz ARTIS.

A.C.
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#2530720 - 09/25/13 10:44 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Bif_]
J Graul Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 138
Loc: Louisville, KY
Originally Posted By: Bif_
Originally Posted By: D-Bon
Originally Posted By: LX88
And as far as the Kurzweil Artis goes, I have never even seen one and they have been out for a while.

No one has seen one, because they haven't shipped.


Getting your hands on one of these (to demo) may be quite difficult. I live in the Louisville, KY metropolitan area and the closest Kurz rep is in Ohio.

IMO this is a big problem for Kurzweil. They really need floor space in a big box music retailer (Sam Ash or Guitar Center) to compete.

Greg


Greg - Bizianes Music in Louisville is a Kurzweil reseller. Theyre' on Bardstown Rd in the Highlands. Been there several times and bought my K2600 there.

John

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#2530726 - 09/25/13 11:08 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: J Graul]
Bif_ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 646
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: J Graul


Greg - Bizianes Music in Louisville is a Kurzweil reseller. Theyre' on Bardstown Rd in the Highlands. Been there several times and bought my K2600 there.

John

Wasn't sure they were still a dealer.

I actually bought a PC88MX there many years ago. I went there to look at the PC3X when it first came out but it was a poor demo environment. Bad speakers (like big, old hi-fi stereo speakers with some kind of noisy discrete amp).
Does not make me want to go back there.
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#2564082 - 01/22/14 09:14 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Bif_]
M57 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/14
Posts: 11
Bump

Anyone familiar with either/both of these? Looking to buy probably one or the other sooner than later. Or perhaps is there something else that is competitive..

Looking mostly for the Pianos and Eps, but the clavs and organs will get used here and there as well.

-Thanks


Edited by M57 (01/22/14 09:45 AM)

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#2588284 - 04/10/14 08:01 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: M57]
HAM&EGZ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 970
Loc: Arphadon, La
Originally Posted By: M57
Bump

Anyone familiar with either/both of these? Looking to buy probably one or the other sooner than later. Or perhaps is there something else that is competitive..

Looking mostly for the Pianos and Eps, but the clavs and organs will get used here and there as well.

-Thanks


I sent my CP4 back because the other sounds , to me , were very lacking, especially the organs.The APs and EPs were very usable, although the Wurli was just OK.

I am going to a local dealer this weekend to demo an Artis, so Ill have a better feel for it.The KB3 mode sounds interesting and from the demos the rhodes, wurlies and clav sounded good.
I am a little put off by the weight of the Artis however,
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#2588341 - 04/11/14 06:43 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: HAM&EGZ]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 1408
Loc: Take a guess ....
Since it appears by your signature that you have several k/b's that can be used (stage 2, Moxf-8) you might consider holding out for the new Forte, whose piano is much improved over the Artis piano and has new EP's which sound very, very good. Also, from a weight perspective, it will save you a few pounds as well.
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#2588351 - 04/11/14 07:58 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
HAM&EGZ Offline
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Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 970
Loc: Arphadon, La
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
Since it appears by your signature that you have several k/b's that can be used (stage 2, Moxf-8) you might consider holding out for the new Forte, whose piano is much improved over the Artis piano and has new EP's which sound very, very good. Also, from a weight perspective, it will save you a few pounds as well.


Yes the new board sounds interesting, although its MAP is more than I want to invest.
Yes the boards I list usually wind up in a two tier config because of the strengths of their particular sounds.

I was looking for the magic bullet that would allow just one board to cover all my bases.

The KB3 mode "appears" to be passable enough for organs, better than the MOXs for sure. I am one of those who cover horns with a board , and the MOX fills that bill.

I am hoping the Artis will cover those well, along with the EPs and that "German Grand". My MoxF has a Ksounds 500 mb C7 Piano residing on the flash, so my AP is there. I know a 128 mb Piano maybe cannot compare to that, but it sure sounded good on the demos.
_________________________
SpaceStation V3, anything else is just a box.

MoxF6,MoxF8,Jupiter80,FA06,Hammond-SK2,-Kurz-Artis,Stage-2-73,
KronosX-73,Lucina strapon .

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#2588352 - 04/11/14 08:09 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: HAM&EGZ]
Delaware Dave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 1408
Loc: Take a guess ....
A girl once told me " ...It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean ..." (Gee, I wonder why she went out of her way to tell me that???). Anyway, the point is that a large sample set doesn't necessary translate into a better sounding sample. The PC3 has a puny (as compared to many keyboards) 64Mb of total sample size yet, soundwise, holds it own in most sound categories and is considered world class in the orchestral category. You might want to see what the final street price is once the keyboard hits the market. I'm guessing that the extra dollars (as compared to the Artis) is probably worth it.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; Hammond XM2/XMc2; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; 67 Howard Combo Organ; www.dyinbreedband.webs.com

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#2588361 - 04/11/14 08:40 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
HAM&EGZ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 970
Loc: Arphadon, La
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
You might want to see what the final street price is once the keyboard hits the market. I'm guessing that the extra dollars (as compared to the Artis) is probably worth it.


So I am seeing $3995 as a street price

List Price: $5,295.00
Our Price: $3,995.00
You Save $1,300.00 (25%

Although its not available yet.DO you think the price will drop when they start showing up ?
_________________________
SpaceStation V3, anything else is just a box.

MoxF6,MoxF8,Jupiter80,FA06,Hammond-SK2,-Kurz-Artis,Stage-2-73,
KronosX-73,Lucina strapon .

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#2588363 - 04/11/14 08:44 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: HAM&EGZ]
Delaware Dave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 1408
Loc: Take a guess ....
I hope so! $5295 list is pretty steep. I also read somewhere that there will be an 88 key, 76 key weighted, 73 key semiweighted, 61 key synth action. Perhaps you could live with the 76 key weighted which should also bring the price down. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; Hammond XM2/XMc2; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; 67 Howard Combo Organ; www.dyinbreedband.webs.com

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#2588366 - 04/11/14 08:53 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
HAM&EGZ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 970
Loc: Arphadon, La
Dave, thank you for all your comments and input.
I wasn't aware of the different versions being planned.You have given me food for thought.

Enjoy your weekend !!!
_________________________
SpaceStation V3, anything else is just a box.

MoxF6,MoxF8,Jupiter80,FA06,Hammond-SK2,-Kurz-Artis,Stage-2-73,
KronosX-73,Lucina strapon .

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#2588872 - 04/13/14 02:19 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: HAM&EGZ]
ewhirsh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 47
Loc: Raleigh/Durham, NC
Sam Ash on Manhattan had both boards essentially side by side, and I made it a point to try them on a recent NYC trip. I've had an S90ES for eight years, and am not enough of a fan of my lighter Casio PX3 to make it my main axe. Hence, I was up looking at the latest generation of lighter weight boards.

The Sam Ash guy described the Artis as being the first Kurzweil piano in awhile to not sound like a [Triple Strike] Kurzweil. I enjoyed it, but ultimately, I am not familiar enough with the history of Kurz boards to form an educated opinion.

The CP4, however, felt like "home" - I really connected with the action and the CFX sample. I do wish it had a few more knobs and sliders to be a controller, but oh well - what I wanted was a lighter-weight piano/Rhodes 88key board that I could love on a jazz gig. CP4 was the winner, and I just posted my Craigslist ad for the S90ES.

Very excited, just in time for my city's first annual jazz festival - they booked some great contemporary acts - aocfestival.org
_________________________
CP4, Stage EX 73, Ableton
Me The Beast Orquesta GarDel

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#2588921 - 04/13/14 08:04 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Delaware Dave]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1148
I agree with HAM and EGZ.... the CP4 Wurli is a disappointment.

And the CP4 organs... what is it about Yamaha that makes them not understand organs???

My in initial enthusiasm for the CP4 has died down somewhat. First impressions were good. But it has not been enough to make me think that it is the instrument that will last me through this decade.

So I am still holding out ,and still playing ( and enjoying) my Yamaha Nocturne ( CP33) and Roland RD300GX.

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#2588932 - 04/13/14 09:15 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: The Piano Man]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6672
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Wow, just took a listen to the long demo over at Kraft Music and am very impressed by the e-pianos and especially the new acoustic piano. I can't remember what all has the TP100 but didn't care much for the feel of the SP4 (I sold my PC3x a couple of years ago and haven't had an 88 since; was originally holding out for the Yamaha CP5's replacement which took longer than I expected so have had my eye mostly on that model for the past few months). I like the CP4's keyed better than TP40/PC3x.

It looks like the Artis can take half-damper on all pedals and can support three pedals using that special Fatar tripedal setup that uses a stereo cable for one of its jacks. Not quite as advanced as Roland's RD-series with its special pedal, but better than what you can do with a Yamaha CP4 This is critical for me due to needing proper controllers for Pianoteq when recording.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

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#2588938 - 04/13/14 09:57 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6672
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
The Sweetwater demo is actually a bit more informative overall.

I'll see if anyone around here is going to carry this model, but I'm back to thinking the higher-end Yamaha digital pianos (e.g. Clavinova) are more what I'm looking for.

What I really like about the new German Grand in the Artis though, is that it sounds really natural in the upper registers, which has long been complaint I've had of almost every digital piano on the market.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

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#2588942 - 04/13/14 10:22 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 4414
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
The first time I played the Artis (at NAMM) I hated it (action). Fast forward a few months to when I sat in at a club in Burbank and my friend had just bought the Artis. I posted about it here a few times. In the band context, out front it sounded excellent. Super full, warm, fat - all the good stuff you'd describe a keyboard with.

I sat in on a few tunes and surprisingly enough the action didn't bother me as much in the band context as playing it solo. Great board, but personally I'd wait for the Forte with the better Fatar action.

For jazz gigs I'd still default to the CP4 though. It just has THAT player connection , for jazz especially, that seems like home base. Have played it a few times now. Nothing about it I don't like ...a lot. wink

My only dilemma is whether to pick up a new CP5 (primarily for the home and occasional solo gig) , which are getting to be in very short supply, or just go ahead on the CP4.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D

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#2588948 - 04/13/14 11:52 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Dave Ferris]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6672
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Oh, I got confused because this thread popped to top so I thought the Artis was the new model and the Forte the older model. Thanks for clarifying.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

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#2589126 - 04/14/14 04:35 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Theo Verelst Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2239
Hoe are the presets ? Do they give a good idea of what the machine can do? Are there sound-sets ?

T

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#2589164 - 04/14/14 06:41 PM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Theo Verelst]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6672
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
OT: Is anyone else having trouble with after-the-fact auto-correct changing "keybed" to "keyed" constantly? It's most aggravating. I have auto-correct turned off on everything I use, but it keeps asserting itself anyway. I can't even edit the post to fix it anymore, for some reason.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

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#2589216 - 04/15/14 04:47 AM Re: Kurzweil Artis vs. Yamaha CP4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 15828
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
That's fine. It's not a "keybed" anyway. poke

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