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#2523209 - 09/01/13 08:45 AM Yamaha MOXF
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7157
It looks like the recent price reductions on the MOX are leading up to the release of an updated model, MOXF, with the expanded wave ROM of the Motif XF, 128 polyphony, and the ability to install a flash card.

Too bad there's no 73-76 key (unweighted) version (and forget aftertouch). Still, that's a nice upgrade from the MOX.

http://br.yamaha.com/pt/news_events/music_instruments/expomusic-2013-novidades/

Click the first pop down section. Google translates the text as:

The Yamaha MOX is today the keyboard average selling price of Brazil. Now imagine if this line evolve for the better with the sounds of the MOTIF XF. Yamaha Musical Brazil proudly presents the new model YAMAHA MOXF in two versions, 61 and 88 keys with the best features that this category of keyboards can offer. Imagine the sounds of the MOTIF XF in 755MB of Wave ROM, 128-voice polyphony, voices expansion via flash memory (optional), AI7 CUBASE software with fully integrated and ready to sync to MOXF, plus giveaways as VST's YC -3B (organ simulator) and Prologue (simulator Synth). The new MOXF is the best option for average and still offers friendly interface completely.

Close enough for me.

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#2523211 - 09/01/13 08:56 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
EscapeRocks Offline
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all your base are belong to us
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Gigging boards: Roland FA-08, Yamaha MOX6, MacBook Pro, Mainstage, Casio PX-5S

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#2523213 - 09/01/13 09:01 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: EscapeRocks]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
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Let's see if this thread meets the same demise as some other recent threads.

Busch.

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#2523219 - 09/01/13 09:08 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: burningbusch]
RetroVintageOld Offline
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Registered: 04/27/13
Posts: 96
Wonder what the price will be with the Krome and others out there now.

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#2523224 - 09/01/13 09:11 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Let's see if this thread meets the same demise as the [bleep] threads.


If it does, it's only because you uttered the number that must not be said! As someone with a similar name to mine once said, "Laddie, don't ya think you should rephrase that?" ;-)

The MOXF stuff is from an official Yamaha web site. It's not some accidental leak from a third party. So I don't think there's any rationale for shutting the conversation down.

Back to the gear at hand... I wonder if they will upgrade the Rack XS to have the extra wave ROM of the XF and a flash expansion slot. The Rack XS is looking awfully long in the tooth now. It would be great to have a flight-friendly way to take all your current sounds with you, without counting on an XF being available to you at your destination

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#2523227 - 09/01/13 09:16 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: RetroVintageOld]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: RetroVintageOld
Wonder what the price will be with the Krome and others out there now.

My guess is they will sell for the same price that the MOX did before the reduction.

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#2523229 - 09/01/13 09:24 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
burningbusch Offline
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It's always fun to watch them try to put the genie back in the bottle.

Busch.

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#2523245 - 09/01/13 10:33 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: EscapeRocks]
The Skinner Offline
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Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 1524
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
all your base are belong to us

thu
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#2523250 - 09/01/13 10:47 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: The Skinner]
RudyS Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skinny
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
all your base are belong to us

thu


laugh
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#2523370 - 09/01/13 05:20 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: RudyS]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Loc: United States
Just channeling my true inner geek.

Back to topic, as a happy owner of an MOX8, I'll be interested to see how much of sound upgrade this would be for me, based on how I use it.
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Gigging boards: Roland FA-08, Yamaha MOX6, MacBook Pro, Mainstage, Casio PX-5S

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#2523376 - 09/01/13 05:29 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: EscapeRocks]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
as a happy owner of an MOX8, I'll be interested to see how much of sound upgrade this would be for me, based on how I use it.

I expect it would make no difference unless you've been bitten by the MOX 64-polyphony limit (dropped notes), or have lusted after some of the extra stock or downloadable sounds available for the XF (or have wished you could load your own samples into it). But who knows, maybe they will make some other nice interface improvements, or...

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#2523395 - 09/01/13 06:59 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Loc: United States
Makes sense. Thanks Scott.

I will say it would be nice to be able to get away from the couple workarounds I have for the 68 polyphony. It only rears it's head on a couple performances, but when it does, it sucks.
I've learned judicious use of sustain pedal on legato playing on those sounds.
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Gigging boards: Roland FA-08, Yamaha MOX6, MacBook Pro, Mainstage, Casio PX-5S

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#2523425 - 09/01/13 10:43 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: EscapeRocks]
bloodyMary Offline
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Registered: 12/22/04
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Loc: Israel
Crap. I need to cancel my MOX order. That flash memory looks real nice.
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#2523507 - 09/02/13 08:13 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
maybe they will make some other nice interface improvements, or...


...it will be business as usual at Yamaha.
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#2523562 - 09/02/13 10:29 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: Synthoid]
FXM Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
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Loc: Newbury, UK
Given that it hasn't been announced yet, I was surprised to see an ad for it in the October edition of Keyboard (page 17).

Neil

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#2523657 - 09/02/13 03:12 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: FXM]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7157
The reference has been scrubbed from the Yamaha site. The show starts Sept 18, so we should be able to start getting real info then.

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#2523659 - 09/02/13 03:21 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
voxpops Offline
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Deliberate? To create a buzz?
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#2523661 - 09/02/13 03:28 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: voxpops]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

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#2523663 - 09/02/13 03:33 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
voxpops Offline
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Nothing attributed to malice - just marketing!
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#2523665 - 09/02/13 03:54 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: voxpops]
Phloid Offline
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Registered: 07/10/11
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With the level of credit "marketing" receives their companies and these gods should be doing much better than they are.

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#2523667 - 09/02/13 03:59 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: Phloid]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 581
Nuked myself cop

Edit: Scott answered my query in a post above.


Edited by voxpops (09/02/13 04:12 PM)
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#2523671 - 09/02/13 04:17 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: voxpops]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7157
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Nothing attributed to malice - just marketing!

I know, but I wanted to keep the quote accurate! I think it was just incompetence, though. If they want to create a buzz, they did a pretty bad job. If you google, you'll get a whopping three hits, which include the pages with my two posts (here and in one other forum). And I can assure you, they did not ask me to post. I just happened across the one other hit, which was in a Motifator forum... and while the mods there didn't nuke it (yet), it was quickly banished from the active forum where I'd found it to the wasteland that is the "lounge" where basically all that happened was a couple of the typical bashers proceeded to complain that it's another example of Yamaha not doing anything worthwhile. If they were counting on my finding it for anything positive to come out of it, I'd have to say it was about the worst stealth marketing campaign ever.

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#2523718 - 09/02/13 06:20 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
Bucktunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

laugh ^ I am SO stealing this! ^ laugh
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#2523720 - 09/02/13 06:26 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: Bucktunes]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7157
I wish I could say it were original!

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#2523799 - 09/02/13 11:27 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
FXM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Newbury, UK
Have you guys not received the October edition of keyboard? There are ads for MOXF6/MOXF8 and a CP4 Stage.

Neil

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#2523800 - 09/02/13 11:40 PM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
BRW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 90
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
MOXF, with the expanded wave ROM of the Motif XF, 128 polyphony, and the ability to install a flash card.


And supposedly user sample support, because the Flash card is there. I don't get this. What's the need to buy an XF anymore, then, if it has the same polyphony, soundset and features, but at a cheaper price. Usually it has been the lack of sampling that has been the distinction in these budget models (on Korg and Roland too). UNLESS they're phasing the XF out with this, in preparation for a new workstation...?

On a related note, I'm astounded that the price of a Rack XS has barely dropped. On eBay, they're selling for $1000, and in music stores the price has pretty much remained unchanged. I could really use one in my rack, but not at those prices - especially when you can buy the same soundset on a way cheaper MOX or MX.



Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
maybe they will make some other nice interface improvements, or...


...it will be business as usual at Yamaha.



You know, I don't get this. I think the Motifs are really use to use. I was working ok on an monochrome-screen ES already, but the XS/XF with the big(ger) color screen are just fine. Controls are great too, like having dedicated buttons for all 16 tracks, for all sound categories, for all sound modification, DAW control. There's a lot of menus, yes, but it's all very logical and easy once you get the hang of it.

On the contrary, even though it is way way more complicated as a piece of hardware, the Kronos with its touchscreen is in a complete other world of hurt with its indecipherable UI and miniscule typeface.

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#2523817 - 09/03/13 03:58 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: BRW]
piano39 Offline
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Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 173
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: BRW
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
MOXF, with the expanded wave ROM of the Motif XF, 128 polyphony, and the ability to install a flash card.


And supposedly user sample support, because the Flash card is there. I don't get this. What's the need to buy an XF anymore, then, if it has the same polyphony, soundset and features, but at a cheaper price. Usually it has been the lack of sampling that has been the distinction in these budget models (on Korg and Roland too). UNLESS they're phasing the XF out with this, in preparation for a new workstation...?

On a related note, I'm astounded that the price of a Rack XS has barely dropped. On eBay, they're selling for $1000, and in music stores the price has pretty much remained unchanged. I could really use one in my rack, but not at those prices - especially when you can buy the same soundset on a way cheaper MOX or MX.



Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
maybe they will make some other nice interface improvements, or...


...it will be business as usual at Yamaha.



You know, I don't get this. I think the Motifs are really use to use. I was working ok on an monochrome-screen ES already, but the XS/XF with the big(ger) color screen are just fine. Controls are great too, like having dedicated buttons for all 16 tracks, for all sound categories, for all sound modification, DAW control. There's a lot of menus, yes, but it's all very logical and easy once you get the hang of it.

On the contrary, even though it is way way more complicated as a piece of hardware, the Kronos with its touchscreen is in a complete other world of hurt with its indecipherable UI and miniscule typeface.

Very Well Said
The XF give you a lot better keyboard action. I'm not sure if the MOXF series has afertouch. Beyond that, I'm not sure what other advantages the Motif will have.
Wonder if the MOXF will use the same flashboards as the XF. Also wonder if prices for flashboards will come down.
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#2523844 - 09/03/13 06:06 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: BRW]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7157
Originally Posted By: BRW
I don't get this. What's the need to buy an XF anymore, then, if it has the same polyphony, soundset and features, but at a cheaper price.

XF still has lots of advantages which I assume the MOXF won't have...

* sampling (as you said)
* better quality keybed (as piano39 said)
* aftertouch (ditto)
* large color screen that presents much more info
* 8 control sliders (versus zero)
* 8 insert effects (versus 3 in the MOX, we'll see if the MOXF changes that at all)
* assignable outputs
* extra foot controller support
* connectivity: ethernet, ieee, wifi interfaces
* ribbon controller
* additional patch select buttons
* possibly the second flash card slot (I'm going to guess that the MOXF will only have one, though I hope to be surprised)
* availability of 76 key version
* 128 mb RAM (it's there mostly for sampling, but it's also useful for quick auditioning of sounds without having to go through the time consuming burn to flash)
* rugged metal casing
* internal power supply (versus wall wart)

and probably some I missed. It's still the better, and more "pro" instrument (if your back and wallet can handle it).

That said, I agree that this is a likely precursor to introducing a new high end workstation. I think we will see an XF replacement in 2014. Maybe with SSD, maybe with some advanced Tyros AEM sounds, maybe a ninth slider and some kind of tonewheel organ emulation... those would all be evolutionary changes as is typical of their "MO." (I think Yamaha has avoided bringing some of the high end Tyros voices to the Motif series because they don't lend themselves to user editability, and the Motif is all about letting you tweak every parameter. But Roland took an interesting approach in the Jupiter... putting editable synth and largely uneditable acoustic sounds into the same box. Maybe Yamaha would consider doing the same.)


Originally Posted By: BRW
You know, I don't get this. I think the Motifs are really [easy] to use. I was working ok on an monochrome-screen ES already, but the XS/XF with the big(ger) color screen are just fine. Controls are great too, like having dedicated buttons for all 16 tracks, for all sound categories, for all sound modification, DAW control. There's a lot of menus, yes, but it's all very logical and easy once you get the hang of it.

I think at least half of what people find complicated in a Motif could be solved by better manuals. (And related to that, it doesn't help that they have a tendency to avoid or redefine common terminology.) But you're right, the system is mostly quite logical once you understand it. There are still a decent number of things that I think are awkward, though... things that may not be where you'd expect them (or labeled the way you'd expect), buttons that don't do what you might expect, common useful things that take too many steps, functions that are confusingly "similar to but just slightly different from" something else, differences in the way things work in different modes (or things you can only do in certain modes, that it "feels" like you should be able to find a way to do elsewhere as well). And in a way, John Melas has built a little industry out of the fact that the Yamaha interface is not the most straight forward. But that's a whole other thread. And I agree, I would not hold up the Kronos as a model of clarity, either.

Originally Posted By: piano39
Wonder if the MOXF will use the same flashboards as the XF. Also wonder if prices for flashboards will come down.

I predict same flash boards, same price (at least for a while).

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#2523863 - 09/03/13 07:32 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: AnotherScott]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

OT Who is this attributed to?

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#2523864 - 09/03/13 07:39 AM Re: Yamaha MOXF [Re: I-missRichardTee]
To B3 Offline
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Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 737
Why Yamaha never put a Clonewheel engine on their synths is something I cant understand... That, coupled with the quality of the other sounds would make a great choice IMHO.
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