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#2495022 - 05/20/13 06:48 PM RIP, Ray Manzarek
Sharkman Online   content
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Ray Manzarek, the keyboards player for the legendary Sixties rock group The Doors, died today at the age of 74. While I am not a Doors fan, I realize that there are many Doors fans out there, and everyone has to admit, The Doors was one of the most influential music groups of the 20th century. So Ray, thanks for touching the lives of so many for so many years.

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#2495024 - 05/20/13 06:56 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Sharkman]
bbqbob Offline
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Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 416
Loc: Maine
Argh!Another one is gone,there have been way too many pass on lately from that great era in rock music. It seems like it is a weekly thing now.

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#2495027 - 05/20/13 07:21 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: bbqbob]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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Keyboards were one of the most important parts of the Doors sound. One of the great groups of all time IMHO. RIP RAY!

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#2495032 - 05/20/13 07:40 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Larryz]
Strategery Offline
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Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3229
Loc: Georgia USA
RIP Ray.

I guess the hands of time wait on none of us.
Time marches on.
Thanks for the music.

Randy
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#2495068 - 05/20/13 11:16 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Strategery]
Fusker Offline
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Absolutely one of my influences...RIP
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#2495079 - 05/21/13 02:05 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Fusker]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Loc: Los Angeles
In high school my band played just about every tune off the first Doors album. We loved that stuff.
RIP Ray, thanks for all the great music.
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#2495082 - 05/21/13 02:40 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Damn.

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#2495085 - 05/21/13 03:04 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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I really liked the Doors, but my best buddy loved them...and I was among the first to pass this along to him.

I hated to hear the news, but not like him. frown


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (05/21/13 03:05 AM)
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#2495103 - 05/21/13 05:28 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Bluesape Moderator Offline
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He defined the Keyboard role for so many bands that came after the Doors. Groove over flash and virtuosity is what I'll always remember him for.
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#2495123 - 05/21/13 07:11 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Bluesape]
whitefang Offline
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Ray had the crudest and cheeziest keyboard set-ups of any band in his era. And it WORKED. It gave the Doors it's distictive sound, and anything better wouldn't have sounded right.

RIP, Ray.
Whitefang
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#2495130 - 05/21/13 07:43 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
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One of the greats, period. R.I.P., sir, and thank you.
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#2495143 - 05/21/13 08:18 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Bluesape]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bluesape
He defined the Keyboard role for so many bands that came after the Doors. Groove over flash and virtuosity is what I'll always remember him for.


HELL, yeah! Damn straight. "Groove" is the word here!
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#2495149 - 05/21/13 08:38 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Ray had the crudest and cheeziest keyboard set-ups of any band in his era. And it WORKED. It gave the Doors it's distictive sound, and anything better wouldn't have sounded right.

RIP, Ray.
Whitefang


"It's not the wand it's the magician". Crude and Cheezy would describe all keyboards of the era. Not discounting the classic sounds of Ray Charles on the old Fender Rhodes Keys & Stevie Winwood still packs a full sized Hammond organ to his gigs. This was an era before analog & digital inventions and polyphony wasn't even a keyboard term yet. It would be interesting to hear Ray on one of the newer boards playing the same tunes that made the Doors so famous (if there are any recordings out there). Ray was one of the Djangos of his keyboard era doing the best he could on what was available at the time. His boards were simply a piano and an organ. His chord work, writing and leads are classic. He also covered the Bass parts. The Doors guitar player was no slouch either. +1 Their sound is just classic on the equipment used at that time...


Edited by Larryz (05/21/13 08:52 AM)
Edit Reason: +1

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#2495151 - 05/21/13 08:46 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Larryz]
Eric Iverson Offline
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I also was a huge Doors fan in my teenage years. Very creative band; the first album still holds up well, IMHO.
I wouldn't call Ray a great keyboardist, but he fit the band very well.

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#2495160 - 05/21/13 09:05 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Eric Iverson]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Hwy 49, California
I do call him a great keyboardist. Comparing the old rock and roll artists on guitar or piano to the true masters or the guys out there today, would change the definition of "great". The old piano rock and rollers like Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Ray Charles were all great in their genre even if some of their tunes were simple 3 bangers. Ray's Light My Fire intro is as classic an intro as Chuck's Johnny B. Goode...both are legendary IMHO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNBLC8NVT8 <---short clip...


Edited by Larryz (05/21/13 09:08 AM)
Edit Reason: clip

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#2495302 - 05/21/13 06:45 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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That guy was great at what he did, I was never a big fan of the Doors, but truth be told, they made it big, and I mean big, so they had something special going on.

RIP Ray you done wonders.
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#2495324 - 05/21/13 09:30 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: desertbluesman]
skipclone 1 Online   content
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RIP Ray
Ya, there`s a tendency these days to say that someone is great because they`re really educated, or can play in any style-both good things to have but like intellegence there are many ways to define greatness. Those songs-`Riders on the Storm` can still give ya chills in the right atmosphere-have grooves that basically can`t be improved on. Played on better gear, sure. That`s a different topic.
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#2495544 - 05/22/13 01:26 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: skipclone 1]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Rescue, Ca.
Ray was the compositional genuis behind Jim's lyrics along with everything else already mentioned. I remember my dad telling me that a difficult aspect of getting older is hearing about all the people you were influenced by, or who you respected, dying off one by one. I hear you Dad.

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#2495568 - 05/22/13 02:14 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Delta]
JohnH Offline
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Loc: Whittier Ca, Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Delta
Ray was the compositional genuis behind Jim's lyrics


Uh, not really. Added colors, but Robby is the writer guy you mean. It's shocking to realize Ray wrote just about nothing but the added parts and the intro to Light My Fire. Sounds hard to believe, but when the writing credits were separated on the last three albums, Ray wrote ZERO songs.

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#2495601 - 05/22/13 03:44 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: JohnH]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Hwy 49, California
Originally Posted By: JohnH
Originally Posted By: Delta
Ray was the compositional genuis behind Jim's lyrics


Uh, not really. Added colors, but Robby is the writer guy you mean. It's shocking to realize Ray wrote just about nothing but the added parts and the intro to Light My Fire. Sounds hard to believe, but when the writing credits were separated on the last three albums, Ray wrote ZERO songs.


http://ultimateclassicrock.com/ray-manzarek-doors-songs/ <--- Morrison credited all four of the Doors for their song writing on their early albums (ie. written by the Doors) even though Morrison wrote most of their songs. Ray's contributions were not just added parts, they made the Doors sound come alive and were a major part of their basic foundation. Much of their sound came from Ray's keyboard compositions to include his jazz bass Coltrane influence. Morrison's voice is another of the major foundation walls that made the Doors who they were, much the same as the Stones and CCR would not be the same without their lead singers. The music and writing in these kinds of legendary groups was more of a collaboration IMHO...

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#2495677 - 05/23/13 12:06 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Larryz]
JohnH Offline
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Registered: 05/05/06
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Loc: Whittier Ca, Los Angeles
The proof though is in those split credits on the last three albums with Ray's individual song credits equaling a total of 0. It was a sore bone of contention with him too. When I posted about Ray in various forums, I also mentioned he had his bad days and moods too- For sure he was jealous of the fact that Robby and Jim wrote everything and he just added the keyboard parts. The last show of Ray's I saw, in San Francisco in 2011, somebody must have brought this up to his face. For several songs in a row, he proceded to say: "This next song was written by Robby Krieger." He finished this spiteful fit of jealousy by finally saying " some kind of ego maniac wrote this next one! " Ray is like Jon Lord, irreplaceable in either band and my two biggest keys influences, but neither were song writers.

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#2495766 - 05/23/13 09:44 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: JohnH]
Larryz Offline
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There were a total of 9 albums by the Doors. The 1st 3 are the most important #1 The Doors 1966, #2 Strange Days 1967 and #3 Waiting For the Sun 1968. Morrison insisted on all 4 band members as being credited for their writing as they were a collaboration. (On Youtube interview clips you'll find Ray crediting Robby for writing Light My Fire and they were both writers and friends through the end and went on tour together).

I think the 2 albums you are referring to JohnH are #4 Soft Parade 1969 and #5 Morrison Hotel 1970. Only Morrison and Krieger are credited as writers of these songs. In 1971 on #6 LA Woman they went back to crediting all 4 members for writing the songs (except on two songs 1 by Morrison and 1 by Krieger). Morrison left for France in 1971 and was not on album #7 Other Voices, all of the songs written by Krieger, Densmore and Manzarek. On #8 Full Circle 1972, Morrison was no longer with us and all songs were again written by Krieger, Densmore and Manzarek. On the last album #9 An American Prayer 1978 Krieger, Densmore and Manzarek wrote the music over Morrison's poetry lyrics...



Edited by Larryz (05/23/13 10:22 AM)

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#2495772 - 05/23/13 09:51 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: JohnH]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Rescue, Ca.
I'm no expert on The Doors by any means but from what I've read over the years Ray was the founding member of the band and the major instrumental composer behind Jim and Robby's song writing.

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#2495785 - 05/23/13 10:33 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Delta
I'm no expert on The Doors by any means but from what I've read over the years Ray was the founding member of the band and the major instrumental composer behind Jim and Robby's song writing.


That's always been my understanding, too. Manzarek thought of forming a band in order to somehow "showcase" Morrison's lyric writing ability. That Jim had an excellent singing voice was just icing on the cake. Whatever the reason, they did make a pivitol impact on the music of the times.
Whitefang
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#2496497 - 05/26/13 03:50 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: whitefang]
JohnH Offline
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Registered: 05/05/06
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Wait till Robby's book comes out. I've heard inside info he's going to spill sone beans and has been waiting till Ray's gone. By the way, I worked for Ray , play him in a band and am a huge fan since age 14, I was as stunned as anybody when I found out who wrote what. Im not diminishing him. Again, not writers , but both Jon Lord and Ray and their arrangement, contributions , leadership and charisma are irrereplaceable.

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#2496540 - 05/26/13 10:02 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: JohnH]
picker Offline
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I heard an interview with Ray on NPR last week, and he says it came about on Venice Beach. Manzarek & Morrison were both recent graduates from film school, and didn't know what they were going to do with themselves. Ray saw Jim walking down the beach and yelled for him to come over. Ray asked what Jim had been doing since graduation, and he said he'd been living on a guys roof, and writing songs. Ray asked him to sing one to him, and Jim begged off, saying he was shy, but Ray insisted and Jim sort of chanted Moonlight Drive to him. Ray thought it was great and suggested they form a band, and Jim said that was what he was thinking of doing too. Jim even had the name already picked out, taking the title of Aldous Huxley's The Doors Of Perceeption as his inspiration. And, it all went from there. I guess it could be said the band was Ray's idea, and maybe Jim was leery of going on stage because of his shyness. So perhaps the idea of The Doors without Jim Morrison performing, but rather being the songwriter in the background isn't all that farfetched. But I doubt the Doors would have gotten where they were without Jim Morrison on stage, doing his weird, charismatic thing. If anything in Oliver Stone's movie can be taken as truth, may Jim rest in peace, he was an out-of-control alcoholic and I doubt his bandmates or management wanted him any other way. A sober Jim Morrison might have been easier to manage, but probably wouldn't have been the attraction he was, "Dionysus" reborn, and all that crap. Me personally, I don't think it would have been much fun to be around him a lot of the time.
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#2496560 - 05/26/13 11:22 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: picker]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBF8OIrz-88 <---"this is how the Doors wrote songs" to include the drummer, and how the group was formed according to Ray. (there are tons of Youtube interviews while Ray was alive which carry more weight than books written after his death). Have to disagree with the JohnH comment: "again, not writers" or "Ray wrote just about nothing but the added parts." Composers are songwriters and to say Ray was not a writer and only played the keyboard parts is like saying Santana only played the guitar parts. Rays' parts were originals that have been copied by young players just like those of any other writer or composer. You don't have to write lyrics to be considered a writer. So, we can agree to disagree...

The band without Morrison is no longer the Doors, the same holds true for Manzarek IMHO. Other bands of the era had original keyboard parts that are well documented and copyrighted too like: The Animals, The Zombies, ? And The Mysterians, Booker T and The MG's, etc... cool


Edited by Larryz (05/26/13 11:55 AM)

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#2496567 - 05/26/13 11:58 AM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Other bands of the era had original keyboard parts that are well documented and copyrighted too like: The Animals, The Zombies, ? And The Mysterians, Booker T and The MG's, etc... cool


Probably most notably Procol Harum.
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#2496608 - 05/26/13 02:33 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Hwy 49, California
A Whiter Shade of Pale...is one of my favorites.

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#2496779 - 05/27/13 03:23 PM Re: RIP, Ray Manzarek [Re: Larryz]
Sharkman Online   content
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Registered: 06/12/10
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I guess my personal definition of a player versus a writer must be different from other people's definitions. If I write a song, and I tell the keyboard player "Play an A minor 7 arpeggio for four bars, then a D minor arpeggio for two bars, C major for one bar, then an A minor chord for one bar, and repeat it", then the keyboard player is just a player. If he comes up with that idea, then he's a writer, and not just a player. But what the Hell do I know?

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