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#2484464 - 04/10/13 10:36 PM PRO question
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 6829
Loc: Japan
I have made several starts at registering with one of the performing rights organizations, and every time I do it seems like the applications want to know how many songs you have distributed and through whom or what label.
Excuse me? if I already got that far why am I contacting them? or are they supposed to be rescuing my music from evil pirates? I don`t get it.
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#2484532 - 04/11/13 08:19 AM Re: PRO question [Re: skipclone 1]
desertbluesman Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2757
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I have been a publisher/writer with BMI for many, many years. I never had to jump through hoops to get that done. I think I paid a $25 fee to register it and about $500 for a lawyer to trademark my company name Crescent-Beach Music. Unfortunately I have never sold any of my songs or been paid for their use. Oops I did get a check for 8 or 9 bucks a few years back maybe because of internet radio. But none before or since.
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#2484538 - 04/11/13 08:49 AM Re: PRO question [Re: desertbluesman]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 3894
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
I have been a publisher/writer with BMI for many, many years. I never had to jump through hoops to get that done. I think I paid a $25 fee to register it and about $500 for a lawyer to trademark my company name Crescent-Beach Music. Unfortunately I have never sold any of my songs or been paid for their use. Oops I did get a check for 8 or 9 bucks a few years back maybe because of internet radio. But none before or since.


Me too, with BMI for about 25 years. You can affiliate with them as both a composer and publisher if you want. Otherwise, you can try to get contracted to a real publishing company. I recall a one time initial registration fee. Setting up a DBA (Doing Business As) name for a publishing company was as simple as registering it with the LA City or County business licensing department & 'publishing' the announcement of that fact 3 times in a publication. The publication could be a legit newspaper, but there just happens to be a little broadsheet published in that same building for the sole purpose of satisfying that legal requirement. They make it easy. BMI collects royalties primarily for the broadcast of its members compositions. They also collect for live performances, with some limitations. Every 3 months I get 2 checks, 1 to me as composer & another to my publishing company for the same amount, since I hold the copyrights to my material. The reason I went with BMI was that at that time ASCAP had a yearly members fee & BMI didn't. I wasn't expecting a lot of income & I didn't want to pay for membership if there weren't going to be royalties that year. I don't know if that is still the policy with ASCAP. Due to a couple things I co-wrote many years ago which are in fairly constant rotation on some Internet radio stations & in-flight services I get checks for $50 to $150 a year. Not enough to pay the rent, but enough to justify the effort to get signed up.
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#2484575 - 04/11/13 10:32 AM Re: PRO question [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5242
Loc: Hwy 49, California
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I have made several starts at registering with one of the performing rights organizations, and every time I do it seems like the applications want to know how many songs you have distributed and through whom or what label.
Excuse me? if I already got that far why am I contacting them? or are they supposed to be rescuing my music from evil pirates? I don`t get it.


I'm not a pro and should not be chiming in (ie. just guessing), but I would say yes to protecting you from evil pirates. You can probably just put 'none' on the forms if you don't have anything copyrighted. If you had several copyrighted tunes, they would probably want some kind of watch list so that they could refer back to your copyrights and provide very quick service. I would imagine they would want your updates yearly if you do a lot of recording and are on more than one label.

Thanks for your question Skip, and to DBM and Scott for your answers, as I may want to write and protect some day and it is always an interesting topic. Also wondering in Skips' situation, how much protection and/or royalties does BMI provide for outside countries like Japan? I'm thinking there are international royalty companies out there and that you would also have to register your tunes with them?

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#2484594 - 04/11/13 11:14 AM Re: PRO question [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3088
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Scott's basically on it: its 1 part piracy protection, but mainly about getting you your royalties.
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#2484767 - 04/11/13 11:02 PM Re: PRO question [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 6829
Loc: Japan
I have the copyrights to my material, that seems pretty straightforward. You can register a U.S. copyright from anywhere. The publishing part is more murky, I have no clue how or even why one would go about that abroad, unless you can write songs in the local language. The market for foreign music is extremely small here, even for commercial pop songs. Most of the foreign divisions of record companies are focused on getting exposure overseas for local artists.
Well maybe I`ll give the registration another shot-they need to make it more clear that it`s an option for anyone.

Larry Z I don`t know if that addresses your question-I don`t think any organizations here would collect royalties for songs with a foreign (U.S.) copyright and on behalf of non-citizens, and I haven`t heard of any international PROs, although there certainly should be especially these days.


Edited by skipclone 1 (04/11/13 11:22 PM)
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#2484887 - 04/12/13 09:41 AM Re: PRO question [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5242
Loc: Hwy 49, California
Thanks Skip, I went on BMI's website and they will sign you up on-line even if you have not copyrighted anything yet. I don't know how or if they could collect royalties in foreign countries on US copyrights.

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#2484890 - 04/12/13 09:47 AM Re: PRO question [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 3894
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Thanks Skip, I went on BMI's website and they will sign you up on-line even if you have not copyrighted anything yet. I don't know how or if they could collect royalties in foreign countries on US copyrights.


BMI has agreements with dozens of non-US PROs around the world. I have gotten various royalties from overseas radio play. No problem.
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#2484894 - 04/12/13 09:49 AM Re: PRO question [Re: Scott Fraser]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 3894
Loc: Los Angeles
The thing to remember is that a performance rights organization collects royalties on performances, so you need recorded material getting radio, Internet, satellite or other play or there's nothing to collect.
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#2484898 - 04/12/13 09:56 AM Re: PRO question [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5242
Loc: Hwy 49, California
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Thanks Skip, I went on BMI's website and they will sign you up on-line even if you have not copyrighted anything yet. I don't know how or if they could collect royalties in foreign countries on US copyrights.


BMI has agreements with dozens of non-US PROs around the world. I have gotten various royalties from overseas radio play. No problem.


Very interesting, thanks for the info Scott!

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#2485103 - 04/13/13 08:04 AM Re: PRO question [Re: skipclone 1]
Bartholomew Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 389
Loc: Montreal
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I have made several starts at registering with one of the performing rights organizations, and every time I do it seems like the applications want to know how many songs you have distributed and through whom or what label.
Excuse me? if I already got that far why am I contacting them? or are they supposed to be rescuing my music from evil pirates? I don`t get it.


No insult intended but - you don't have to get it, you just have to fill out whatever forms are required to get paid at some future date.

Additionally there are time limits imposed on registering works getting action in foreign countries - I believe it's 3 years usually. You will have to register each country with potential sales.

One of my drummers became the Vice-Chairmain of SOCAN which is the Canadian collector. He also set up his own corporation and is collecting royalties all over the world for known CDN & US artists plus a couple of major record labels - for a %.

No forms = no $$$.
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#2485111 - 04/13/13 08:50 AM Re: PRO question [Re: Bartholomew]
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 6829
Loc: Japan
Thanks for the great responses guys-what I mean by not getting it is, it doesn`t make sense to me, to be asking first time applicants what they have already out there. I want to be sure I get paid before I distribute my music right?
_________________________
Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

Skipsounds on Soundclick:
www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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#2485140 - 04/13/13 10:10 AM Re: PRO question [Re: skipclone 1]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 3894
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Thanks for the great responses guys-what I mean by not getting it is, it doesn`t make sense to me, to be asking first time applicants what they have already out there. I want to be sure I get paid before I distribute my music right?


I set up my BMI affiliation when I released my 1st solo LP, back in 1988. Along with setting up my publishing & personal self with them, I also registered the tunes from that album. They ask on the individual tune paperwork what album it has been released on, which helps them track radio play. That was all that was asked, as I recall, & at that time album releases were the main way that music was distributed. Now you can have download only releases, so they may word that question differently. But if my stuff weren't on an album, there basically wouldn't be anything for them to follow up on, but that was part of registering the tunes, not setting up my account with them. When you have an album coming out, then you can deal with each tune with your PRO, but for now, you're probably just getting your account online & ready for taking care of the rights collection for your compositions.
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