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#2458622 - 12/27/12 12:35 PM Afraid to buy a tube amp...
-Will- Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Louisville, KY
Anyone ever been in this boat? I currently have a solid state Peavey Studio Pro 112, which I like but I want to buy a low wattage tube amp, something I can use at home or as a monitor mic'd at church. I was thinking something with variable wattage like maybe a Tiny Terror or Egnater Rebel 20. I was initially going to go with a Blackstar HT-5R, but I'm afraid that the 5 watts won't be enough at church... so then I looked at the TT and I don't know if it would get clean enough, so now I'm trying to decide between the Rebel 20 and Tweaker... But then again, since I am really uncertain, I thought about saving money and just buying a Fender Super Champ X2 or Mustang...

There really isn't a question here... was just sharing my frustration as there is always too much gear and not enough money.
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#2458642 - 12/27/12 01:37 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Aaaaaaah... A subject near and dear to my black heart. wink

For starters, if you crank a low-watt tube-amp but roll back your guitar's volume-knobs and also use your picking-hand "touch" to get a clean, clear sound, you will likely find that there is plenty enough power in, say, an Orange Tiny Terror for playing with drums, bass, other guitars, etc. As you gradually bring the guitar's volume-controls up again and/or pick harder, you will pour on more and more overdrive and distortion, with a rainbow of tones in-between every step of the way.

Here's a review of the Orange Tiny Terror head and 2x12 cab with Celestion Vintage 30's that I typed up a number of years ago (bear in mind that I play fingerstyle/without a pick 100% of the time, which makes dynamic "play the amp" playing more controllable with a greater range compared to playing with a pick):

_____________________________________________________________________

Finally tried out an Orange Tiny Terror the other night, through an Orange closed-back 2x12 loaded with Celestion Vintage 30s; played a G&L A.S.A.T. (Tele-Custom style, with a humbucker at the neck position).

In short, what a killer amp!

With that particular guitar, I soon found the favorable control-settings to have the power-selector set to 7 watts, the Master-Volume absolutely fully dimed (I kinda wondered why they even included the Master Volume, they could've cut cost by only having one Volume and the Tone), the Tone at about 8:00 (very, very low, nearly all the way off), and the Gain up to about 2:00. This allowed me to roll back the guitar's volume for crisp, clean, surprisingly tight and somewhat reasonably loud clean (and I DO mean CLEAN) tones- nice and spanky!- and turn up for more and more overdrive and bite. VERY nice! AC/DC, ZZ Top, Clash, Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, etc. tones spoken fluently here! thu

Gainier and a little less refined (or a little differently refined) than my Fuchs Lucky 7. I could DEFINITELY dig owning both amps, though, and they'd probably play very well together simultaneously...

The difference between the 7- and 15-watt settings was very subtle, with just a bit more compression and sag with ever so little more overdrive when set to 7 watts; at 15 watts, there was a slightly tighter low-end and midrange. Far more noticeable a difference to the player than to any audience, I'm sure, and still not much of a difference, really. A barely perceptible difference in headroom and volume.

I highly, HIGHLY recommend the Orange 2x12 w/ Celestion Vintage 30's to ya! cool
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#2458711 - 12/27/12 08:58 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Guitarzan Offline
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Posts: 14800
i agree on the TT plus celestion v30's. sweet tones.
another cool amp is the Traynor Dark Horse and matching greenback loaded cab. a little less gain but a cool amp.
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#2458721 - 12/28/12 12:00 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Guitarzan]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5542
Loc: Hwy 49, California
I would check out the Mustang III in your search, just for kicks...

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#2458749 - 12/28/12 06:12 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Larryz]
-Will- Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Louisville, KY
The Mustang was on my list, either the I, II or II... I'm mainly looking at combo amps, I think the only one I listed that doesn't come in a combo amp is the rebel 20... How does the TT Combo fair? or is it better as a head/cab?
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#2458791 - 12/28/12 08:51 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: -Will-
How does the TT Combo fair? or is it better as a head/cab?


Depends- do you want a combo, or a head and 2x12 (or 1x12) cab? Which kind of sound do you prefer?

The TT head and 2x12 cab are VERY Rock 'n' Roll in a very good way! But not limited to that at all.
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#2458897 - 12/28/12 08:15 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Joe Grasso Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Peoria, AZ
...have you thought about Vox? I've got one of these little beasties, and love it!
http://www.voxamps.com/us/ac4/ac4c1-BL/

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#2458918 - 12/28/12 11:48 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Joe Grasso]
p90jr Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 1985
I'm a Vox enthusiast... the AC15 CC1 and C1 turn up used where I am for around $300, since they're attractive to beginners who give up. I like them and use a CC1 all the time and get great sounds out of it. It's loud for 15 watts (probably up around 25 in reality, from what my tech guy says), I just like clean headroom and I play with some heavy handed drummers and I have to crank it too much for my taste in those situations, but that's not the amp's fault.

I'm kind of GASing for a couple of VHT amps: the Special 12/20 (a 6L6 vintage Fender style amp, like a mini-Twin Reverb) and the Classic 18 (an EL34 British style amp... Marshall)... made in China but HANDWIRED using eyelet boards like the old amps/new boutique amps. Look up the street prices for them, A BARGAIN!!! and people say wonderful things about them, especially about tweaking them if you want!!!

I'd like one of each and I'd switch between them for clean and dirty sounds.

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#2458936 - 12/29/12 06:20 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: p90jr]
Guitarzan Offline
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Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 14800
one thing on my list is the Hughes and Kettner tubemeister 5, it even has their redbox built in for direct feed for recording or PA. BAM! now those 5 watts are alot louder.


Edited by Zan of the Dead (12/29/12 06:22 AM)
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#2458967 - 12/29/12 10:28 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Guitarzan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Zan of the Dead
one thing on my list is the Hughes and Kettner tubemeister 5, it even has their redbox built in for direct feed for recording or PA. BAM! now those 5 watts are alot louder.


Niiiiice... cool

I tell ya, I need an attenuator for my Lucky 7- and I AM talking about when playing with drums, bass, other guitars, and vocals! eek
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Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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#2459008 - 12/29/12 01:57 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Strategery Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3232
Loc: Georgia USA
I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 for $399 that includes head and 1/12 cab with Celestion speaker.
It's in pristine condition and I changed all the tubes out to JJ's when I first bought it.
Comes with the manual, padded head case and speaker cable.
No scratches or dings...perfect condition....1 owner.
I live near Columbus, GA.
Good luck on your purchase. :-)
Randy
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#2459031 - 12/29/12 04:33 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Strategery]
picker Offline
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Posts: 13141
Loc: Near 12th Street and Vine...
Check this series of videos out. It may help you make uop your mind...
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#2459111 - 12/30/12 07:45 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: picker]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2900
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I just bought a Fender Super Champ X2, and I have to say the thing is well worth the price. The speaker was a little too crisp at first but after a few weeks it started to break in nicely. I am very happy with it. It is well made, it has some very nice sounds on the modeling side and the clean is standard Fender black face clean. Buy the foot switch.
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#2459215 - 12/30/12 04:34 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: desertbluesman]
Terrell Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 1722
Loc: Austin, TX
What is your set list like? A TT isn't a swiss army pocket knife!!! Just sayin'

You might be a better candidate for a modeler.

Don't get me wrong. I consider myself a fan of tube amps and there is nothing that can ever replace a tube amp (or a wall of 9 varieties of them). A TT is cool little amp that breaks up pretty and cleans up on roll off and with dynamics. But it won't sound like a this or that or those amps for this that or those songs.

I'm just sayin' you might want to think about the list of songs and the range of needs...


Edited by Terrell (12/30/12 04:34 PM)
Edit Reason: I'm retarded

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#2459265 - 12/30/12 07:37 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Strategery]
harvey Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 968
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Strategery
I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 for $399 that includes head and 1/12 cab with Celestion speaker.
It's in pristine condition and I changed all the tubes out to JJ's when I first bought it.
Comes with the manual, padded head case and speaker cable.
No scratches or dings...perfect condition....1 owner.
I live near Columbus, GA.
Good luck on your purchase. :-)
Randy


Now if you only lived near Sydney, Australia.....
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http://stjambience.wordpress.com/


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#2459314 - 12/31/12 01:02 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Terrell]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Posts: 22354
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Originally Posted By: Terrell
What is your set list like? A TT isn't a swiss army pocket knife!!! Just sayin'

You might be a better candidate for a modeler.

Don't get me wrong. I consider myself a fan of tube amps and there is nothing that can ever replace a tube amp (or a wall of 9 varieties of them). A TT is cool little amp that breaks up pretty and cleans up on roll off and with dynamics. But it won't sound like a this or that or those amps for this that or those songs.

I'm just sayin' you might want to think about the list of songs and the range of needs...


Now, come on now, now, yer just makin' sense now!

grin
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#2459415 - 12/31/12 11:54 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Terrell]
-Will- Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Louisville, KY
Well, I just play at church, so pretty much just a contemporary Christian cover band... That being said, we play them how we want to play them which is a little more rocking than most originals. Like I said, right now everything is played thru the Peavey Studio Pro...

But you are right, I think at this point I've talked myself into a Mustang...
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#2459423 - 12/31/12 12:48 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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At least consider a Fuchs 4-Aces or Lucky 7 II paired with a Fuchs/Feiten Vintage Compact 212 cab; not cheap, but man, a whooole lotta great dynamic, touch-sensitive low-watt amp, with excellent reverb, boost, and channel-switching.

I love LOVE love my Lucky 7... cool I think you'd ind the Lucky 7 II to still be too loud! So I'd go with the 4 watt 4-Aces for your uses (it can even be run at 2 watts!). I include a demo-vid of the 21 watt Blackjack 21 Mk II as overall, it sounds quite similar to the Lucky 7 Mk II...

______

______
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#2459450 - 12/31/12 02:22 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
-Will- Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Louisville, KY
As a hobbyist... I can't even begin to justify spending that kind of money. I wish I could... I need something good yet affordable...
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#2459461 - 12/31/12 02:46 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Strategery]
-Will- Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Louisville, KY
Originally Posted By: Strategery
I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 for $399 that includes head and 1/12 cab with Celestion speaker.
It's in pristine condition and I changed all the tubes out to JJ's when I first bought it.
Comes with the manual, padded head case and speaker cable.
No scratches or dings...perfect condition....1 owner.
I live near Columbus, GA.
Good luck on your purchase. :-)
Randy


I got $393 in my paypal account... that's all I got right now...
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Music has no boundaries. It is yours to discover, to enjoy, to draw from and to pass on to others.

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#2459463 - 12/31/12 02:52 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: -Will-
As a hobbyist... I can't even begin to justify spending that kind of money. I wish I could... I need something good yet affordable...


Then seek ye out good used specimens of various cool low-watt tube-amps or digital-modelers; there are bargains to be found here and there. "Brand New" is overrated...

Bestaluck! Keep us posted!

Originally Posted By: -Will-
Originally Posted By: Strategery
I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 for $399 that includes head and 1/12 cab with Celestion speaker.
It's in pristine condition and I changed all the tubes out to JJ's when I first bought it.
Comes with the manual, padded head case and speaker cable.
No scratches or dings...perfect condition....1 owner.
I live near Columbus, GA.
Good luck on your purchase. :-)
Randy


I got $393 in my paypal account... that's all I got right now...


I'll go a little ways out on a limb here (meaning that I'm confident that I'm correct) and say that I believe that Randy is a stand-up guy that I would trust to do business with; known him online here and elsewhere for years...
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#2459464 - 12/31/12 03:02 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Griffinator Global Moderator Offline
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No love for the VHT Special Six?
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#2459466 - 12/31/12 03:11 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Griffinator]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Hey, Griff'! cool

Originally Posted By: Griffinator
No love for the VHT Special Six?


I bet it's a cool amp, I just haven't had the pleasure of taking one for a spin...
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#2459483 - 12/31/12 04:30 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Terrell Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 1722
Loc: Austin, TX
Originally Posted By: -Will-
Well, I just play at church, so pretty much just a contemporary Christian cover band... That being said, we play them how we want to play them which is a little more rocking than most originals. Like I said, right now everything is played thru the Peavey Studio Pro...

But you are right, I think at this point I've talked myself into a Mustang...


Not a bad move IMO...

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#2459580 - 01/01/13 09:30 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Terrell]
Strategery Offline
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Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3232
Loc: Georgia USA
Thank you Caev....and yes, I am a stand up guy.
People that don't know me should know that I ALWAYS keep my gear in pristine condition.
I started that in the 70's because I couldn't afford to replace gear that I had bought. wink

Anything that I sell...NEVER has any dings or dents is always in proper working order.
When I sell something....it's usually because I have redundant gear or I want to go else where with my gear in terms of tone.

With my Egnater Rebel 20...it is simply redundant.
I bought a Fender Supersonic 20 and I also bought a nice 5E3 clone.
Too much gear takes up too much space. wink

I've also got a BBE Maxcom for $125 as well as a DBX twin 31 EQ for the same price if anyone is interested.
All one owner and new condition. rawk

Randy
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#2459599 - 01/01/13 10:35 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5542
Loc: Hwy 49, California
Originally Posted By: -Will-
Originally Posted By: Strategery
I've got an Egnater Rebel 20 for $399 that includes head and 1/12 cab with Celestion speaker.
It's in pristine condition and I changed all the tubes out to JJ's when I first bought it.
Comes with the manual, padded head case and speaker cable.
No scratches or dings...perfect condition....1 owner.
I live near Columbus, GA.
Good luck on your purchase. :-)
Randy


I got $393 in my paypal account... that's all I got right now...


Unless my math is off you two are within $6 bucks! Now just get her from point A to point B! If you do try a Mustang, try the III first...

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#2459606 - 01/01/13 10:48 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Larryz]
-Will- Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 459
Loc: Louisville, KY
Why the Mustang III? It's way more wattage than I would ever need... As far as wattage I think the I would be enough. I was considering the II because of the 12" speaker.


Edited by -Will- (01/01/13 10:48 AM)
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#2459622 - 01/01/13 11:34 AM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: -Will-]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5542
Loc: Hwy 49, California
From reading the posts in the II thread, I would prefer the III. Yes it has more wattage, but that is not a bad thing and it gives you volume if you need it and the ability to turn it down when you don't. It packs a lot of horsepower for a small 35lb portable amp that can be used for practice or for small club venues. It has an upgraded Celestion 12" speaker for better tone/sound and better operating and patch tweeking controls. It doesn't cost that much more than the II and won't kill your budget...It has the same LCD controls as my Mustang Floor pedal which are just flat great...

Ps. You will probably get great sound out of the II as well, so try them both out!


Edited by Larryz (01/01/13 11:37 AM)
Edit Reason: ps.

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#2459632 - 01/01/13 12:29 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Strategery]
zonker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 2
Loc: northern Kentucky/Cincy area
Originally Posted By: Strategery
Thank you Caev....and yes, I am a stand up guy.
People that don't know me should know that I ALWAYS keep my gear in pristine condition.
I started that in the 70's because I couldn't afford to replace gear that I had bought. wink

Anything that I sell...NEVER has any dings or dents is always in proper working order.
When I sell something....it's usually because I have redundant gear or I want to go else where with my gear in terms of tone.

With my Egnater Rebel 20...it is simply redundant.
I bought a Fender Supersonic 20 and I also bought a nice 5E3 clone.
Too much gear takes up too much space. wink

I've also got a BBE Maxcom for $125 as well as a DBX twin 31 EQ for the same price if anyone is interested.
All one owner and new condition. rawk

Randy


let's talk, pm sent
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#2459633 - 01/01/13 12:34 PM Re: Afraid to buy a tube amp... [Re: Larryz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: -Will-
Why the Mustang III? It's way more wattage than I would ever need... As far as wattage I think the I would be enough. I was considering the II because of the 12" speaker.
Originally Posted By: Larryz
From reading the posts in the II thread, I would prefer the III. Yes it has more wattage, but that is not a bad thing and it gives you volume if you need it and the ability to turn it down when you don't. It packs a lot of horsepower for a small 35lb portable amp that can be used for practice or for small club venues. It has an upgraded Celestion 12" speaker for better tone/sound and better operating and patch tweeking controls. It doesn't cost that much more than the II and won't kill your budget...It has the same LCD controls as my Mustang Floor pedal which are just flat great...

Ps. You will probably get great sound out of the II as well, so try them both out!


Aren't all of these Mustang I, II, and III amps SS (Solid State) powered amps?

If so, the wattage rating vs the tube-amps discussed above is an apples-and-oranges comparison, to say the least. Besides the fact that a given number of "tube watts" are MUCH more powerful than a similar or even much greater number of "SS watts", one may deliberately push a tube output-section to fatter, warmer tone and overdrive- which is where a lower watt tube-amp comes in handy- while one typically AVOIDS pushing a SS output-section to that point- it's just for volume, for loudness, and generally not for dynamically responsive tone and overdrive. Very different animals in application. Low wattage in a SS amp is not the advantage that it can be in a tube-amp.

My all-tube, 7 watt Fuchs Lucky 7 hangs in there over drums, bass, vocals, and other guitars with loudness, presence, and "cut", having beaten out a 120 watt SS 1x15 bass combo (with a guitar plugged into it) AND a 100 watt SS 2x12 guitar combo, all at the same time in a live band setting. I didn't even bother to mic the Lucky 7, while, IIRC, both of those SS amps were lined-out to the PA (and monitors?) as well.
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