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#2454100 - 12/05/12 06:18 AM Bush-whacked!?!
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
I need some help from my buds, one of those Measure-twice-cut-once things. I'm looking to swap out the hardware on my Epi SG. Already set with Grover tuners & Schaller strap locks, part of my standard retro-fit - I even put strap locks on my Squier Mini. Anyhow, I have a nice Schaller roller-saddle bridge & fine-tuning tailpiece that were waiting for my next Gibson (no time soon), but right now, I'd like to put them on the Epi. The Epi is threaded for metric, of course, and has the wide ABR-style bridge posts, so I can't just drop in the Schaller parts. Stew-Mac used to have a sort of converter post for bridges, wide at the base, w/narrow posts on top, but I haven't seen it for a while. Has anyone had any luck or experience removing the bushings from a solid-body guitar? As always, "Don't mess with it," is an acceptable answer. Better to leave things as they are, than screw up a good, playable guitar.

I have seen a cheap roller-saddle bridge from GFS, that will drop into the Epi, but I really love the Schaller parts on an SG. They add mass and they make it easier to tune the thing. Any guidance will be appreciated.
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#2454104 - 12/05/12 06:42 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Terrell Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 1722
Loc: Austin, TX
Do you want to repaint it? Else YIKES!

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#2454114 - 12/05/12 07:05 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Guitarzan Offline
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Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 14794
i have pulled the bushings from my Epi V, i just kept the screw in and gently pried the bushing using something non marking ( piece of scrap wood) for leverage..gently ..a pair of pliers slightly open to fit under the bolt head used as a lever. no prob.
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#2454288 - 12/05/12 12:13 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Guitarzan]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Zan - much respect on your courage in even trying that. Was this your much-loved reverse V, too?

Mainly, I want to get rid of the Epi ABR bridge, and I know there are roller-saddle bridges that will drop in, but I already have the Schaller parts.

If this guitar was a junker, I'd probably grab a set of Vise-grips, and a wood shim, and have at it. I'd even considered heading up to the local hardware store, and getting a longer bolt, for better leverage, but it's a really nice guitar, and it's white, so if I crack the finish, or even worse, the top, Terrell's remark (YIKES!) would certainly apply.

I might still try it, in which case, how did you insert the new bushings? Steady pressure, light taps with a hammer, maybe using a shim to protect the top? I'm going to think about this for a few days, so if anyone else wants to jump in, please do. At least now, I know it can be done . . . whether I should try it is another question.
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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#2454324 - 12/05/12 02:08 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
The Epi is threaded for metric, of course, and has the wide ABR-style bridge posts, so I can't just drop in the Schaller parts.


Not to second-guess you- take no offense, please- but just for clarity here, are you sure it isn't the "Nashville" bridge, the type without a retainer-wire for the saddle-screws, and which has large threaded bushing-inserts pressed into the body, with threaded adjustment posts that are slotted on their tops for a screwdriver, instead of having small-diameter threaded posts screwed directly into the wood, sporting free-spinning "thumb-wheels" for height-adjustment?

Or by "wide bridge posts", did you mean wide-spaced, and not wide-posts?

Can you post a photo, either of your guitar's bridge, or a photo of an identical one from somewhere?

"Nashville" style compared to ABR-1 Tune-o-Matic style:

Can you give us any measurements of parts and spacing? (For post-spacing, go center-to-center or outside-edge of one to inside-edge of other and round off fairly closely; you might assume it to all be metric, but... ?)

* If you do wind up needing to pull some pressed-in bushings, here's a great tool (I had one, but someone "liberated" it and my bridge-jack tool from me... !! mad ); you just slip the bracket around the part to be pulled and turn the wing-nut on top to slowly, uniformly extract the part.

Schatten Knob and Bushing Puller

____________________
* If you have threaded-posts screwed directly into the wood, spin a hex-nut of the correctly matching thread-size as far down the post as allows room to use a wrench on it, and spin another one down till it butts up against the first, and snug them up fairly (but not overly) tight; then simply put a wrench to the lower of the two and go lefty-loosey counter-clockwise on it to remove the post. Go carefully, so as not to bend the post or damage the finish or wood.
_________________________
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#2454347 - 12/05/12 03:31 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5522
Loc: Hwy 49, California
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Roller-Bridge-Chrome-plated-fits-Les-Paul_p_661.html <--- I know you already know about these but I just think it's a better way to go. They may be cheap, but I have a buddy that bought one for his Epi 335 when he had a Bigsby installed. He's very happy with it and it will save risking damages to your guitar...

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#2454366 - 12/05/12 04:36 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
The Epi is threaded for metric, of course, and has the wide ABR-style bridge posts, so I can't just drop in the Schaller parts.


Not to second-guess you- take no offense, please- but just for clarity here, are you sure it isn't the "Nashville" bridge, the type without a retainer-wire for the saddle-screws, and which has large threaded bushing-inserts pressed into the body, with threaded adjustment posts that are slotted on their tops for a screwdriver, instead of having small-diameter threaded posts screwed directly into the wood, sporting free-spinning "thumb-wheels" for height-adjustment?

Or by "wide bridge posts", did you mean wide-spaced, and not wide-posts?

Can you post a photo, either of your guitar's bridge, or a photo of an identical one from somewhere?


Caevan, brother, please, no offense taken at your effort to help clarify the issue. Neither of the bridges in your link look exactly like what I mean, because the Epi bridges are sort of a bastard mix of what you've described - they have the ABR-style retaining wire, plus a wide post that can be adjusted with a flathead screwdriver, instead of the narrow thumb-wheel on the Nashville bridge, or the small threaded posts of the Gibson ABR. Here's what it looks like, you'll see what I mean. GFS Large Bushing TOM-style bridge.

Sorry, you'll have to look at the link. That's pretty much identical to all of the Epi bridges I've seen, whether on SG's LP's, DOTs, Firebirds or Explorers, anything with a TOM bridge. THIS seems to be the path of least resistance - it's the same link Larryz put up. I'm willing to spend $25 to not screw up my guitar, but I do see some really cheap Epi SG & LP Specials, from time to time, like $75-80 cheap. Maybe after I practice 'Zan's technique on one of those, I'll risk it. I don't expect to do this often enough to justify buying a tool just for this one task, but I'll keep it in mind.

Still looking for a fine-tuning tailpiece that will fit, but there are a few places I haven't tried. Any other ideas, or links to hardware are welcome.
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/figures-of-speech

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#2454388 - 12/05/12 06:25 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
gljohnson Offline
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Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado
You might check Dan Erlewine's "Trade Secrets" on the Stewart McDonald website. Seems like I remember him doing one on pulling bushings
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#2454402 - 12/05/12 07:11 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 22344
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Wow, to think these Epi bridges kinda sorta took the WORST of the ABR-1 and the "Nashville" and put it together... ?!


cool But that roller-bridge looks to be a good one, and the price is very nice...


Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
I don't expect to do this often enough to justify buying a tool just for this one task, but I'll keep it in mind.


Compare it to the cost of having a pro luthier do the work for you; and consider the fact that you can use it to more safely remove press-on Strat and Gibson style knobs as well as bushings for bridges, tail-pieces, tuners, etc....
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2454490 - 12/06/12 06:46 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Wow, to think these Epi bridges kinda sorta took the WORST of the ABR-1 and the "Nashville" and put it together... ?!


cool But that roller-bridge looks to be a good one, and the price is very nice...


Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
I don't expect to do this often enough to justify buying a tool just for this one task, but I'll keep it in mind.


Compare it to the cost of having a pro luthier do the work for you; and consider the fact that you can use it to more safely remove press-on Strat and Gibson style knobs as well as bushings for bridges, tail-pieces, tuners, etc....


I really don't like those Epi bridges - like I said, a bastard mix. The worst part, IMHO, is the retaining wire - I call it 'the bobby pin'. On most of the guitars coming out of the Epi plants, whether Chinese or Korean, they've reversed the bridge, so the screw heads face towards the pups & the neck, instead of towards the bridge!?!? (Take a good look at the roller bridge from GFS, and you'll see they've turned it the same way in that photo.) If that retaining wire comes loose, you get pseudo-sitar effects, as it buzzes under your strings. To turn it around the right way, you have to disassemble the thing, so you can have the wider slotted saddles for the heavier strings - this came up in another thread, and you were kind enough to remind me of this problem. With the roller saddles, you can turn it any which way, and I won't have to pay to have the saddles notched out.

You make a good point about the utility of the knob-puller, but that same $45 will just about get me the two roller bridges I need, and I can easily drop those in, myself. It's the coward's way out, I guess, but I can't afford to be too daring, right now. As I said in an earlier post, maybe after I practice on some real junker . . .
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/figures-of-speech

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#2454501 - 12/06/12 07:23 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Guitarzan Offline
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Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 14794
Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
Zan - much respect on your courage in even trying that. Was this your much-loved reverse V, too?

Mainly, I want to get rid of the Epi ABR bridge, and I know there are roller-saddle bridges that will drop in, but I already have the Schaller parts.

If this guitar was a junker, I'd probably grab a set of Vise-grips, and a wood shim, and have at it. I'd even considered heading up to the local hardware store, and getting a longer bolt, for better leverage, but it's a really nice guitar, and it's white, so if I crack the finish, or even worse, the top, Terrell's remark (YIKES!) would certainly apply.

I might still try it, in which case, how did you insert the new bushings? Steady pressure, light taps with a hammer, maybe using a shim to protect the top? I'm going to think about this for a few days, so if anyone else wants to jump in, please do. At least now, I know it can be done . . . whether I should try it is another question.


yup the negative v. really it is not a big deal if you are slow and steady.
they are only pressed in so pulling just needs some slow firm pulling.
my pickguard was mounted before the bushings and there was some parts of the pickguard jammed under the bushings. so i slightly reamed the holes and the bushings went deeper and only contacted wood. this gave me some brighter tighter tone and removed mud.

check out graphtech for a replacement bridge for your epi.
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#2454512 - 12/06/12 08:05 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Guitarzan]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5833
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
It's too bad you don't have a lot of "junk" lying around to practice this on. Sounds like you lack a bit of confidence in your handyman abilities. I certainly would! I wouldn't DREAM of doing such a thing, since I have TWO right hands(I'm left handed) with all thumbs when it comes to this sort of thing.

As my Grandma used to say: "When in doubt, don't!"
Whitefang
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#2454532 - 12/06/12 08:52 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: whitefang]
Guitarzan Offline
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Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 14794
i may be doing a re stringing soon and i possibly could prepare a little vid when i do.

i had them out at least 3 times doing work on my v.
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#2454539 - 12/06/12 09:14 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 3918
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
On most of the guitars coming out of the Epi plants, whether Chinese or Korean, they've reversed the bridge, so the screw heads face towards the pups & the neck, instead of towards the bridge!?!?


It's that way on all 3 of my TOM Epiphones & both Gretsches. Makes no sense to me, but they'll get replaced with Comptons before too long.
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#2454606 - 12/06/12 10:48 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2893
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I think Stew Mac has (or used to have) an extractor engineered to safely pull out the inserts below the bridge without teariong out the wood around the inserts.
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#2454661 - 12/06/12 01:28 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 22344
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
On most of the guitars coming out of the Epi plants, whether Chinese or Korean, they've reversed the bridge, so the screw heads face towards the pups & the neck, instead of towards the bridge!?!?


It's that way on all 3 of my TOM Epiphones & both Gretsches. Makes no sense to me, but they'll get replaced with Comptons before too long.


Yeah, that's actually the 'normal' way for Gibsons, too; Idunno if there ever was a particular reason, they just made and installed the T-o-M with the heads of the saddle-screws facing the bridge-pickup. Some people reverse 'm, and that's generally OK, so long as the saddles are oriented the right way, and not just flipped around with the slots set at angles, instead of sort of square/straight in-line with the string-paths...

I've always just left T-o-M and similar bridges whichever way they came from the factory, I've never had any trouble getting at 'em with a screwdriver; but I do like the "top-wrapped" way of stringing the stop-bar tail-piece, with the tail-piece screwed all the way down snug 'n' tight...


____
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Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
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#2454855 - 12/07/12 10:46 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Nice shot of that LP top, Caevan! I have seen a few Gibsons set up like that, but all of mine came with the screwheads turned towards the bridge? The over-the-top wrap won't work on the Schaller fine-tuning tailpiece, but I might try it on the Epi SG.

WhiteFang - I'm pretty good with hand tools, I do a lot around my house and in my work, but I'm also paranoid about screwing up my guitars by trying something I haven't done before. Can't put the wood back, you know.

'Zan, that's a very generous offer. I'd love to see it done, even on video - wouldn't mind getting a better look at the reverse V, either. At least on my Epi, they seem to have mounted the bushings after they finished the top, so that's one issue I don't have to deal with. The spacing for the posts seems to line right up, as well. There's an $80 Epi LP Special at GC - I might just get that to experiment on. If I'm lucky, I'll wind up with two working, modded Epis, if not, at least I won't have screwed up a guitar I like to play.
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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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#2454910 - 12/07/12 02:27 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Guitarzan]
pinkjimiphoton Offline
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Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 2418
Loc: new england, usa
Originally Posted By: Zan of the Dead
i have pulled the bushings from my Epi V, i just kept the screw in and gently pried the bushing using something non marking ( piece of scrap wood) for leverage..gently ..a pair of pliers slightly open to fit under the bolt head used as a lever. no prob.


+1

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#2454936 - 12/07/12 04:02 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: pinkjimiphoton]
Winston Psmith Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: pinkjimiphoton
Originally Posted By: Zan of the Dead
i have pulled the bushings from my Epi V, i just kept the screw in and gently pried the bushing using something non marking ( piece of scrap wood) for leverage..gently ..a pair of pliers slightly open to fit under the bolt head used as a lever. no prob.


+1


Okay, that's two 'yes' votes from people I trust. I'm still looking to get that cheap-o LP Special, and see how that goes - like I said, that way I might wind up with two modded guitars. BTW, the Graphtech gear still doesn't have the roller saddle design I'm looking for, but the GFS does.
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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/figures-of-speech

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#2454944 - 12/07/12 04:56 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 22344
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Bestaluck! thu wave

Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
Nice shot of that LP top, Caevan!


Not mine; just some random Google search-result that clearly shows what I was describing.

Here's mine (large, enlargeable pic).
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2454954 - 12/07/12 05:59 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
pinkjimiphoton Offline
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Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 2418
Loc: new england, usa
you MAY need to use just a touch of like, elmers wood glue or something when re-installing the bushings bro.
but they should come out relatively easily.

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#2455225 - 12/09/12 07:57 AM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1949
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Bestaluck! thu wave

Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
Nice shot of that LP top, Caevan!


Not mine; just some random Google search-result that clearly shows what I was describing.

Here's mine (large, enlargeable pic).


You win, brother - I like the top on yours more than that Tobacco-burst.
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/figures-of-speech

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#2455277 - 12/09/12 03:00 PM Re: Bush-whacked!?! [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 22344
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: pinkjimiphoton
you MAY need to use just a touch of like, elmers wood glue or something when re-installing the bushings bro.
but they should come out relatively easily.


Good call. cool

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Bestaluck! thu wave

Originally Posted By: WinstonPsmith
Nice shot of that LP top, Caevan!


Not mine; just some random Google search-result that clearly shows what I was describing.

Here's mine (large, enlargeable pic).


You win, brother - I like the top on yours more than that Tobacco-burst.


Yeah, I'm pretty happy! smile
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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