Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
A Bach Thread
#2410724 05/11/12 04:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Today I am listening to this old TV show from 2000. Andrei Gavrilov is performing Well Tempered Clavier Book I. Something he says in the beginning before Prelude in C major is how difficult it is too play in C major because there are no black keys. I never thought about it before I think he is right. It is hard to really dig in if there aren't any black keys.


Last edited by CEB; 05/11/12 04:32 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
KC Island
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2410731 05/11/12 04:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
K
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
K
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
Years back I heard a performance on public tv of No.1 performed on a clavichord. It was a revelation. Such nuance and passion! And then...I bought a clavichord and got to try it for myself. The instrument is so intimate, so tender, that the works take on a new meaning. Digging in is not necessary. Think floating.

K.

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2410732 05/11/12 04:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 22
O
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
O
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 22
I had a teacher that said it was one of the hardest scales to play and I agree, especially to play clean.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: A Bach Thread
Outkaster #2410739 05/11/12 05:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
No Bach thread should be complete without mentioning the Canadian pianist Angela Hewitt. She's so lyrical in her touch and interpretations. She's all over utube so easy to find. She plays Faziloi pianos exclusively too btw.



And yes, C major is the hardest major scale to play.

Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #2410742 05/11/12 05:40 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,735
Likes: 13
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,735
Likes: 13



Re: A Bach Thread
Jazz+ #2410744 05/11/12 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,019
C
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
C
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,019
Bach, eh? Let's take a minute and listen to one of the Maestros:

Re: A Bach Thread
Cygnus64 #2444441 10/10/12 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
This is kind of fun. Around the 25:25 the Tocatta and Fugue (BWV 565) is a tour de force on organ but it is interesting on piano. I like the cleanness of the piano doing this piece. I might play with this.


Last edited by CEB; 10/10/12 11:34 AM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2444446 10/10/12 11:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,307
E
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
E
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,307
Great thread! Gin and tonic for us Bachaholics, LOL.

Seriously, I'm not addicted to Bach but listen to his music regularly and run through some of his music on guitar, flute and mandolin - not on a professional level, that takes HARD WORK..... two four letter words in a row.
It's very beneficial in lots of ways, and the skills you learn carry over to pop music.

Re: A Bach Thread
Cygnus64 #2444451 10/10/12 11:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Originally Posted By: Cygnus64
Bach, eh? Let's take a minute and listen to one of the Maestros:


Whoah! The man has some awesome tone.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2444470 10/10/12 12:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 437
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 437
A thread about J.S.Bach on a Keyboard forum must feature THIS man:



A true genious when playing Bach (and many other things, of course)

Re: A Bach Thread
non c'e futuro #2444474 10/10/12 12:45 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 991
N
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
N
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 991
I'm learning Bach's Capriccio from Partita no. 2 in C minor for my piano exam at the moment, and I'm amazed how difficult it is!

It doesn't look too bad on the page, but obviously my brain isn't wired up for Bach. Six months in, I'm getting there, but it's been a struggle - although totally worth it.

Re: A Bach Thread
nickd #2444481 10/10/12 01:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,445
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,445
Good stuff, Sinfonias are very interesting to play as well. Finding that third voice is a challenge and fun.


Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff.
Re: A Bach Thread
Fusker #2444508 10/10/12 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,167
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,167
The cantata No. 29 from "Wir Danken Dir Gott" has probably the most famous Sinfonia, but a bit of trivia: Bach plagiarized from everyone, even himself- that is actually the Violin Partita in E Major, a major performance work for solo violin. (Also the first piece on Walter Carlos' Switched-On Bach.)

..Joe

Last edited by joegerardi; 10/10/12 02:18 PM.

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
Re: A Bach Thread
joegerardi #2444513 10/10/12 02:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,091
Likes: 21
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,091
Likes: 21
I'm getting goosebumps just sitting here and thinking of certain moments in St. Anne's Fugue. No other composer does that to me. Bach is truly sublime.


Moe
---
"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com
Re: A Bach Thread
mate stubb #2444528 10/10/12 03:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 5
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 5
I'm sick with high fever, but I'll try to assemble some random thoughts on Bach....

- His constant, absolute excellence of musical quality, even in the simplest tunes that he wrote for wife and children, is almost superhuman.

- When some of my student plays, say, the C minor French Suite for me, I always marvel at the magic of that music - and I've heard it for more than 40 years!

- It's the most difficult composer to play on the piano. The Bb minor fugue from WTC I is totally unforgiving; it's absolute clarity, or you sound like an amateur.

- At the same time, it sounds good on steel drums, xilophone, whistling, glassharmonica, even accordion.... (well, almost) grin - IF you you play these instruments *well*. smile

- A *whole* cantata every week! Wow! freak

My very humble homage:
Prelude in D major from WTC I


Last edited by marino; 10/10/12 03:47 PM. Reason: added last paragraph
Re: A Bach Thread
marino #2444532 10/10/12 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 22
O
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
O
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 22
Cool. To play Bach you have to have your shit together.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: A Bach Thread
ksoper #2444539 10/10/12 04:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 333
bg Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 333
Originally Posted By: ksoper
Years back I heard a performance on public tv of No.1 performed on a clavichord. It was a revelation. Such nuance and passion! And then...I bought a clavichord and got to try it for myself. The instrument is so intimate, so tender, that the works take on a new meaning. Digging in is not necessary. Think floating.

K.


I'd like to hear more about your clavichord sometime. Fretted or unfretted? What's it like playing with vibrato? Does it stay in tune?

Re: A Bach Thread
marino #2444540 10/10/12 04:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,693
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,693
Originally Posted By: marino
- At the same time, it sounds good on steel drums, xilophone, whistling, glassharmonica, even accordion.... (well, almost) grin - IF you you play these instruments *well*. smile
Most Bach even sounds good when played by a machine, with a cheesy synth tone. It's about the only thing that's tolerable played that way. I remember this from when canned sequenced hold music started to appear, back in the 80's IIRC.

Re: A Bach Thread
JeffLearman #2444581 10/10/12 07:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 89
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 89
Ah, Bach.

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

Last edited by vortmaxx; 10/10/12 07:26 PM.
Re: A Bach Thread
vortmaxx #2444589 10/10/12 08:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 921
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 921


I too could not resist.


Custom handmade clocks: www.etsy.com/shop/ClockLight
Re: A Bach Thread
Pale #2444613 10/10/12 09:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 382
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 382
So how do we feel about Cameron Carpenter's interpretations of Bach?



Virgil Fox pissed a lot of purest off too, but in my opinion, if Cameron can get some new folks listening that wouldn't have bothered before, then a little (?) bit of flamboyant isn't such a bad thing.


Les Mizzell
----------------------------------------------
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2444617 10/10/12 09:42 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 445
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 445
Originally Posted By: CEB
...how difficult it is too play in C major because there are no black keys. I never thought about it before I think he is right. It is hard to really dig in if there aren't any black keys.

No question. For me, my favorite keys to play in are Ab and Db. Some of this has to do with the fact a lot of the urban gospel repertoire is in these keys. But beyond that, I think they just feel better under my hands. Playing on all whites sort of lacks tactual context so to speak.


--Sean H.

Yamaha MOXF8, Korg TR76, Novation X-Station 61, Casio PX-320
Re: A Bach Thread
mate stubb #2444650 10/11/12 01:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
Originally Posted By: mate_stubb
I'm getting goosebumps just sitting here and thinking of certain moments in St. Anne's Fugue. No other composer does that to me. Bach is truly sublime.


You have no idea how universal this is. I remember the first Bach piece I heard years ago moved me to tears - before I even knew who the composer was. And I come from a very different musical background - western music forms a very small fraction of my listening. I still can't tell one piece from another, why the key scale is mentioned, or what the heck a fugue is. And I've seen similar reactions from friends who are accomplished musicians in the Indian classical tradition - even the die-hard purists who don't listen to any western music.

Thanks for this thread, and the posts in it.


Re: A Bach Thread
Les Mizzell #2444652 10/11/12 02:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,091
Likes: 21
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,091
Likes: 21
Originally Posted By: LesMizzell
So how do we feel about Cameron Carpenter's interpretations of Bach?


That was entertaining. It's certainly the freshest interpretation of D moll I have heard. He gets a bit carried away with the embellishments from time to time for me, but I'll bet old Bach would be smiling. JS was said to be a thunderous improviser.

He has incredible facility on the pistons, and that organ has crazy dynamics.


Moe
---
"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com
Re: A Bach Thread
mate stubb #2444674 10/11/12 09:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,167
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,167
The interpretation doesn't bother me too much. The sissy-boy spangly shirt? Yeah. That should go.

For me it's the Bach Aria from the 3rd Orchestral Suite. That piece can move me at any time. It can be either celebratory, melancholy, or just plain sad. Played quite loudly, it never gets harsh.

To me, the best single composition out there.

..Joe


Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
Re: A Bach Thread
joegerardi #2444699 10/11/12 11:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,165
Likes: 9
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,165
Likes: 9
Some of my own thoughts on Bach:

-I will be wrestling with the WTC until the day I die and my life will have been greatly enriched as a result.

-Every piano bench should have a book of Bach's 'other misc' works (Little Preludes and Fugues, etc) in it. Some of the pieces in there are quite approachable with limited ability and yet they too are excellent.

-Playing Bach helps me with bebop lines immensely.

-Glenn Gould was and is the man in my book.

-I can't believe the Brandenburgs sat unopened for so many years. Imagine writing such an incredible work for someone and them not even acknowledging it. Did Bach even hear them performed in his lifetime?


Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: A Bach Thread
Bobadeath #2444705 10/11/12 11:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,307
E
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
E
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,307
As a guitarist, I have to mention a couple CDs that are superb, but off the beaten track:
Bach - Four Suites for Orchestra - Brazilian Guitar Quartet - they really nailed it! Not just for guitar fans.
And Hubert Kappel did a fabulous guitar version of Partita #6 in E minor, although it's still better on keyboard. I don't remember the name of the CD, but I'm sure his website mentions it.
On mandolin, Chris Thile and Mike Marshall play Bach great - I wish they'd do a whole album of it.

Re: A Bach Thread
Eric Iverson #2444718 10/11/12 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,112
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,112
Here's some Bach for you--

Marino's "Bach to the Future"


"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
Re: A Bach Thread
Bobadeath #2444721 10/11/12 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,019
C
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
C
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,019
Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe

-I can't believe the Brandenburgs sat unopened for so many years.

Bach was basically forgotten for 100 years, his sons were better known. It wasn't til the mid- 1800s that there was a revival, largely due to Mendelssohn and Schumann. The violin sonatas (among the masterpieces of classical music) were found in a fish shop. Someone was wrapping fish with Bach manuscripts (probably copies).

This happens quite a bit with classical. The dreaded "Pachelbel Canon" was unknown until the 1970s when it was used in the movie "Ordinary People". Damn you Robert Redford! laugh Even in the 30 years I've been a pro, some composers have definitely gone in and out of favor: Sibelius is now a 3 hit wonder. Liszt is disappearing, Debussy too. Mahler has gone from obscure to overplayed. American classical music has come down to 3 people: Copland, Barber and Bernstein.(and Gershwin of course). All the other great classical American composers like Howard Hanson have basically become Jeopardy! questions.

Re: A Bach Thread
Cygnus64 #2444731 10/11/12 12:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,167
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,167
More to The point, the Brandenburgs were little more than a throwaway album of music composed over several years. Bach wanted a new job, and thought that the margrave of Brandenburg would be more likely to give it him with a little "grease." Read the fawning dedication, and how many times old Johann used the term "Your Highness..."

Didn't work though: he had to stay at Kthen.

..Joe


Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
Re: A Bach Thread
non c'e futuro #2444852 10/11/12 09:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 19
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 19
I learned Bach's "Prelude and Fugue in C major" on the organ, when I was a teenager (many moons ago). It sound good on the piano as well (without the bass line). Bach has influenced my compositions over the years. Sometimes when I perform a Bach tune, I can feel "his spirit" taking over my hands. I'm sure it's just my imagination, but that is what great music can do to you!


Randy Skolnik
Re: A Bach Thread
David Loving #2444854 10/11/12 09:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 5
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 5
Originally Posted By: daviel
Here's some Bach for you--

Marino's "Bach to the Future"

Thanks a lot Daviel. smile
Only thing, you linked to one of the only two pieces on the album that aren't Bach pieces! I have had the impudence of including two pieces of mine in that work, written "in style" and humbly dedicated to the Master.

Re: A Bach Thread
marino #2444864 10/12/12 12:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,112
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,112
My mistake! I thought 99 cents was too cheap.

The Complete Album

A regular on my iPod rotation

Last edited by daviel; 10/12/12 12:34 AM.

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
Re: A Bach Thread
David Loving #2454797 12/07/12 01:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Adding this here for future reference.

Too rushed but would make a killer octave study. I may try this if my wrists will take it. Age ( or bad technique) is catching up with me lately.



"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2454833 12/07/12 02:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,998
Likes: 12
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,998
Likes: 12
I prefer keys where the root is a natural and the 3 is sharp or flat. Those fit my hand as middle fingers stick out further than my thumb. I don't like keys where 1 and 5 are black and 3 is white.

I wish I had appreciated Bach more when I was taking lessons in school. There is a lot to learn with the fingering and the use of accidentals.


This post edited for speling.
Re: A Bach Thread
RABid #2455013 12/08/12 07:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 4
Y
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Y
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 4
Thanx CEB, Gavrilov is a monster pianist. I still remember an old vinyl of him playing Prokofiev's 1st piano concerto.., .Angela Hewitt is a fantastic player as well. I would add Tatjana Nikolayevna, the teacher of many great Russian pianists and a fantastic interpreter of Bach's music herself.

Last edited by yannis D; 12/08/12 07:12 AM.

Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands
Re: A Bach Thread
yannis D #2455078 12/08/12 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 799
Likes: 7
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 799
Likes: 7
Years ago, I memorized the 3rd Movement of Bach's Italian Concerto. A terrific composition with a bright melody and it was also a great left hand workout. Learning Bach's Italian Concerto had a positive influence on my playing.

When there a lull on stage or the crew needed a few minutes, I'd play it using the ARP 4 Voice Piano's harpsichord tone. Fun times. This thread has inspired me to find the sheet music.

Re: A Bach Thread
SteveCoscia #2455154 12/08/12 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
Originally Posted By: SteveCoscia
Years ago, I memorized the 3rd Movement of Bach's Italian Concerto. A terrific composition with a bright melody and it was also a great left hand workout. Learning Bach's Italian Concerto had a positive influence on my playing.

When there a lull on stage or the crew needed a few minutes, I'd play it using the ARP 4 Voice Piano's harpsichord tone. Fun times. This thread has inspired me to find the sheet music.


Try the Henle-Verlag edition on the Italian Concerto.

Oh yeah +100. The IC was the first major classical piece I attempted to learn in my early 20s. Yes the 3rd movement is joyous without question. I find the Andante section equally has beautiful.

My favorite recording of this piece is Alfred Brendel


Also no Bach keyboard thread cannot be complete without mentioning Rosalyn Tureck, which Jazz + did earlier in the thread.

Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #2455159 12/08/12 09:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 799
Likes: 7
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 799
Likes: 7
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
My favorite recording of this piece is Alfred Brendel.


Indeed. The Brendel rendition is real good. Bach's melody is so lively and inviting. It grabs the listener.

Re: A Bach Thread
SteveCoscia #2455172 12/08/12 11:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
I love Brendel. It was Brendel that really turned me on to Haydn.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2455594 12/10/12 11:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
She makes some interesting points. I hate to tell her that not only does Chopin sound like doggy doo on the Polymoog but I thought Bach did too.

I still can't bring myself to compare Bach to Arnold Schoenberg. I don't like Schoenberg.


Last edited by CEB; 12/10/12 11:45 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2456097 12/12/12 05:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
I'm continuing to work through The Well Tempered Clavier and I have some thoughts and questions.

1) I got an opportunity to have hands on an actual Harpsichord. Dang you have to be accurate and very articulate on those things. Piano is a lot more forgiving otherwise it is a smeared up jingly mess. I've play Harpsichord patches on Keyboards. The two experiences have nothing in common. I expect the harpsichord to be an easier axe to play on. It wasn't for for me. I was out of my environment.

2) My copy of WTC is marked for dynamics. This was done by Carl Czerny. The Harsichord doesn't do dynamics like a piano. Is what Czerny did considered proper piano treatment? On the Preludes I tend to want to do dramatic shifts in dynamics. I guess I am a Romantic at Heart.

Last edited by CEB; 12/12/12 05:26 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2456107 12/12/12 06:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,165
Likes: 9
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,165
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: CEB
2) My copy of WTC is marked for dynamics. This was done by Carl Czerny. The Harsichord doesn't do dynamics like a piano. Is what Czerny did considered proper piano treatment?


Not really. Edit: well I am no academically qualified to truly question Czerny, but you could maybe play these dynamics very subtly and it would sound fine.

Quote:
On the Preludes I tend to want to do dramatic shifts in dynamics. I guess I am a Romantic at Heart.


You can do whatever makes you happy. Seriously. But know that it wasn't the composer's intent, nor at all the style of the time.

Dynamics in Baroque literature definitely have a place. Subtle shading and highlighting of certain melodies and phrases can give the music further dimension. But bluntly wielding FFs and PPs to maudlin excess can ruin the integrity of the music.

Last edited by Bobadohshe; 12/12/12 06:19 PM. Reason: further thoughts about Czerny.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2456114 12/12/12 06:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,685
KCFF League Champ '12
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
KCFF League Champ '12
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,685
Dynamics in Baroque music are always subject to debate, but much of Bach's music was actually written for clavichord, rather than harpsichord. It's similar in sound to harpsichord, but is able to produce a range of dynamics. Bach almost certainly played these pieces with dynamics himself, but leaving it up to the performer was a common practice at the time, as details like dynamics were considered more of an afterthought. So, dynamics weren't often indicated, but that doesn't mean dynamics were or should be absent. I feel like most Bach pieces sort of "play themselves" in terms of dynamics though.

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2456117 12/12/12 06:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
I don't know about Czerny but I've always used the Henle-Verlag editions for all my Bach stuff--Italian Concerto, WTC 1&2 , Inventions, English & French Suites.

No dynamic markings in the Henle. I've listened to recordings of the pieces I do by varying pianists (sorry can't hang with the harpsichord) just for reference sake.

I don't alway agree with some of the fingering choices in the Henle but from a reading/learning standpoint, I prefer it over anything else.

A definite shout out though for the Alfred Masterwork editions of the WTC. BK.1 is edited by Willard Palmer. BK.2 edited by Judith Schneider and fingerings by Maria Sofianski.

In the intro of BK.1 they go into literally a 25 page essay ranging from dynamics , rhythm, Fugue structure, sustain pedal usage, arpeggiating chords in the Baroque style, tempo and very detailed analysis of the ornaments. Best I've ever seen. I like a lot of the fingering choices too. The Alfred is like a reference workbook (highly recommended)--definitely goes hand in hand with the Henle although I still prefer the latter from a graphic/reading standpoint.

Re: A Bach Thread
Cygnus64 #2456127 12/12/12 07:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,687
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,687
Originally Posted By: Cygnus64
Mahler has gone from obscure to overplayed.


Yes - any idea why that is? Is it a copyright thing?

Re: A Bach Thread
stillplaying #2456132 12/12/12 07:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
I have the Alfred's collection of Bach's 2-part Inventions. I really like that book it comes with a CD and they have nice notation on the ornamentations.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2456138 12/12/12 08:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,091
Likes: 21
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,091
Likes: 21
Bach on piano bothers me. I don't know why, but overuse of dynamics is probably a contributing factor.

Long live baroque instruments!


Moe
---
"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com
Re: A Bach Thread
mate stubb #2456162 12/12/12 10:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Yes I can see that being the culprit. I am at home at the piano I just played through the first Prelude in WTC and Czerny has dynamics ranging from pp to ff in the score.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2456164 12/12/12 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,685
KCFF League Champ '12
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
KCFF League Champ '12
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,685
The dynamic range of an actual clavichord is generally more like mp down to pp. It's a very quiet instrument.

Re: A Bach Thread
Bridog6996 #2456326 12/13/12 04:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Originally Posted By: Bridog6996
The dynamic range of an actual clavichord is generally more like mp down to pp. It's a very quiet instrument.


Speaking of which this is one of the points Andras Schiff points to in this discussion on Bach.



I will not pedal.
I will not pedal.
I will not .........

Last edited by CEB; 12/13/12 04:12 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2470049 02/09/13 02:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
You can find parts of this on YouTube but this is a full hour segment.

This is from a Chinese YouTube type site I don't if it can be embedded.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzcxMTI1NjUy.html

This helps me understand the issues I had with some of Glenn Gould interpretations. I like his interpretations of major Bach works but his interpretation of a lot of the stuff that I play through I don't like. In the middle of this he explains experimentation with tempos and other aspects in minor works like inventions, preludes, fugues and gigues but would NOT think of doing that to multi movement pieces and pieces of great importance such as Concertos or Partitas. Glenn was an interesting man.

Last edited by CEB; 02/09/13 02:58 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2494754 05/20/13 11:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
Ashville.Guru #2495248 05/21/13 06:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,598
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,598
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
Originally Posted By: mate_stubb
I'm getting goosebumps just sitting here and thinking of certain moments in St. Anne's Fugue. No other composer does that to me. Bach is truly sublime.


You have no idea how universal this is. I remember the first Bach piece I heard years ago moved me to tears - before I even knew who the composer was. And I come from a very different musical background - western music forms a very small fraction of my listening. I still can't tell one piece from another, why the key scale is mentioned, or what the heck a fugue is. And I've seen similar reactions from friends who are accomplished musicians in the Indian classical tradition - even the die-hard purists who don't listen to any western music.

Thanks for this thread, and the posts in it.


Not politically correct but I couldn't care less... JS Bach is by far the greatest western musician composer in recorded western history.
Pablo Casals says as much.

Re: A Bach Thread
I-missRichardTee #2495254 05/21/13 07:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 11
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 11
I have an aged LP called "The Pocket Bach" by George Fields, the first-chair harmonica virtuoso who played for films such as "Paint Your Wagon." He sat in a walk-in closet and played Bach one line at a time into an 8-track reel-to-reel. He used about 12 different instruments, one being a large Hohner chromatic with a hefty slide on it. Like all Bach, its riveting and perfect. It highlights how you can play it on ANYthing and have it translate seamlessly.

I see mention of his music, but I encourage you to read one of his many biographies. Your admiration will triple when you learn of how he lost a beloved young wife and several children to illness as a younger man, had to fight to inject any creativity into what was often seen as an adjunct to worship only and wrestled politics and the demands of teaching all his life. He usually had a cadre of puckerbutts pulling him this way and that all the time. To handle so many pressures and STILL crank out reams of such works makes him seem almost supernatural. Why, the poor man didn't even have tape cassettes, much less Pro Tools. You think YOU have rehearsal hassles.... shocked


Scotch whiskey is made from barley & the morning dew on angels' nipples. ~ Warren Ellis

https://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1
Re: A Bach Thread
David Emm #2495257 05/21/13 07:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,598
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,598
Originally Posted By: David Emm
I have an aged LP called "The Pocket Bach" by George Fields, the first-chair harmonica virtuoso who played for films such as "Paint Your Wagon." He sat in a walk-in closet and played Bach one line at a time into an 8-track reel-to-reel. He used about 12 different instruments, one being a large Hohner chromatic with a hefty slide on it. Like all Bach, its riveting and perfect. It highlights how you can play it on ANYthing and have it translate seamlessly.



I see mention of his music, but I encourage you to read one of his many biographies. Your admiration will triple when you learn of how he lost a beloved young wife and several children to illness as a younger man, had to fight to inject any creativity into what was often seen as an adjunct to worship only and wrestled politics and the demands of teaching all his life. He usually had a cadre of puckerbutts pulling him this way and that all the time. To handle so many pressures and STILL crank out reams of such works makes him seem almost supernatural. Why, the poor man didn't even have tape cassettes, much less Pro Tools. You think YOU have rehearsal hassles.... shocked


Amen to all of that work ethic and grit
Close to supernatural indeed
pablo Casals Said Bach was Divine
And again he said Bach was in his own category above all others- sorry for poor paraphrasing.

Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 05/21/13 07:27 PM.
Re: A Bach Thread
David Emm #2495351 05/22/13 06:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
K
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
K
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
Originally Posted By: David Emm
I have an aged LP called "The Pocket Bach" by George Fields


I'd love to hear this. I found bassharp.com and read the liner notes written, amazingly enough, by Rory Guy, better known as Angus Scrimm, "The Tall Man."

Re: A Bach Thread
ksoper #2515304 07/29/13 01:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
A like the far away sound of this piano. Usually everything I do sounds close and in your face. Not sure if this was the intent or just a consequence of it being an old recording.



"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2522405 08/28/13 03:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2608275 07/03/14 09:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
David Loving #2608357 07/03/14 12:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 723
W
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
W
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 723
Originally Posted By: David Loving
My mistake! I thought 99 cents was too cheap.

The Complete Album

A regular on my iPod rotation

With a title like "Bach to the Future: Piano and Synthesizer" I was expecting to hear piano and synthesizer _together_. From what I can tell by listening to the preview snippets some tracks are piano and some tracks are synthesizer; never both together on the same track. A pity - that could have been interesting.

I don't know what it is but with the exception of one artist I am always disappointed by synthesized Bach. That artist is, of course, Wendy Carlos. She had the training and the talent to use the right sounds and to phrase them expressively that other interpretations seem to lack, including IMO this one. With the exception of track 14 (English Suite in A Minor) the synth tracks don't do it for me. But perhaps I need to hear the complete tracks to judge them fairly.

Too bad Wendy's body of work is more-or-less out of print. According to her web site, "Due to major changes in the music business, we unexpectedly lost our ESD distribution, leaving us stranded with few good options." That happened several years ago now.

Re: A Bach Thread
WillNeverPost #2669560 03/03/15 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Nice 1 1/2 hour documentary.



Watching this one tonight.


Last edited by CEB; 03/03/15 08:08 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2669591 03/03/15 01:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,193
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,193
I'm almost finished with this 3 Part Invention (or Sinfonias)
In this one there is always at least one finger held as a tie in either hand per measure (and/or into the next) . . . the 2nd page is just pure genius!

Really knocked my socks off this one, Bach's genius was never clearer to me. . . . It's having it's effect on all my other playing (non-classical) . . .why I love to play Bach beside the pure joy of it! This is 'back-burner' work for me, at it for a few months now....I usually eventually get through them!

Bach 3 Part Invention in D Minor . . .

Last edited by Legatoboy; 03/03/15 02:23 PM.

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Re: A Bach Thread
Legatoboy #2669755 03/03/15 10:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 2
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 2
This thread is perfectly timed for me...

I think I'm going to start the Back two part inventions to help build up my hand independence.

Todd


Sundown

Just Finished: Condensation; Two Button Press
Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Fishing in Kingsbury
Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361
DAW Platform: Cubase
Re: A Bach Thread
WillNeverPost #2669763 03/03/15 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 5
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,324
Likes: 5
Originally Posted By: thisspaceforrent
Originally Posted By: David Loving
My mistake! I thought 99 cents was too cheap.

The Complete Album

A regular on my iPod rotation

With a title like "Bach to the Future: Piano and Synthesizer" I was expecting to hear piano and synthesizer _together_. From what I can tell by listening to the preview snippets some tracks are piano and some tracks are synthesizer; never both together on the same track. A pity - that could have been interesting.

Well, the album is roughly half piano and half synthesizers, so I don't think that the title is too misleading... grin

Btw, that was exactly the spirit of the project: To put the piano and the synths in direct comparison, in a classical music context. Both instruments were unknown to Bach (the piano in its modern form and the synthesizer), so in both cases, you could think of all these pieces as "transcriptions" - of which Bach was a master himself.

I never thought to use the two instruments together; in my humble opinion, that would have suggested too much of a "piano concerto" sound, and I wanted to avoid that.
The whole thing has a rather "chamber music" feel, which I personally like for that kind of music.
Love the Carlos realizations as well, of course. smile

Side note: I'm not really satisfied with the piano sound on that album. It was so bright and metallic that I ended up playing most of the piano pieces with the left pedal down. Not ideal for your dynamics... freak

Re: A Bach Thread
Sundown #2669773 03/03/15 11:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Originally Posted By: Sundown
This thread is perfectly timed for me...

I think I'm going to start the Back two part inventions to help build up my hand independence.

Todd


I helped me out tremendously to revisit the inventions. I hadn't played them since I was a kid. I'm kind of go nuts on stuff. I will get on a kick and do it. I was on the Bach kick for about a year. It started on Liszt's 200th birthday. I started lamenting the death of my technique..... Wishing I was 22 again, all that middle aged self pity crap.

My new kick is now Chopin. That is really funny because as a kid I friggin HATED Chopin. I love short pieces. I just don't have the time, discipline and memory to tackle Sonatas and other long pieces. I like Preludes, Etudes, and specially find of Grieg's lyric pieces.

I still suck at Bach. I'm just a Romantic player at heart. My favorites will probably always be Beethoven, Rachmaninoff and Grieg. I suck at those too.

Here is a warped piece of doo-doo. Invention 13 backwards. grin

Bach does some interesting things when backwards.



Last edited by CEB; 03/03/15 11:40 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890177 11/14/17 10:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890207 11/14/17 01:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,193
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,193


SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890208 11/14/17 01:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,165
Likes: 9
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,165
Likes: 9


Great playing!


Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: A Bach Thread
Bobadeath #2890209 11/14/17 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 4
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 4
Great playing indeed.

I like the tempo's a bit lower though. Maybe thats also because I'm used to my own tempo's.


Rudy

Re: A Bach Thread
RudyS #2890218 11/14/17 02:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,193
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,193
Originally Posted By: RudyS
Great playing indeed.

I like the tempo's a bit lower though. Maybe thats also because I'm used to my own tempo's.


It's not you... they are a bit fast in general I think. I play them slower myself...for various reasons rolleyes !

I agree, she really is great but I prefer slower tempos myself! Otherwise you get the things Glen Gould was slightly put down for (if that's possible) the 'Music as a Museum Piece' vibe...she is wonderful though... I've played many of them myself! Richter was who I was steered to, so I put some of his WTC up...

Richter was explained to me as very close to a Jazz musician in his feel for classical...living in the moment more not in the Museum....I was guided away from Howowitz for similar reasons ...Always with the statement and understanding of how great Horowitz was though...it's a matter of taste.

Last edited by Legatoboy; 11/14/17 02:53 PM.

SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Re: A Bach Thread
Legatoboy #2890230 11/14/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Her philosophy is the same as Glenn Gould.

"Bach wrote 2- and 3- part Inventions as a exercises for aspiring keyboard players to perfect one's technique and touch. Since any exercise is supposed to be difficult and push you to the limit, I did just that."

Glenn was emphatic that he remained absolutely true in performance of major works such as Concertos, Partitas, and Suites etc ..... But inventions, sinfonias, dance pieces, WTC ...etc... were open game for personal interpretation baby.

Hell I have no room to throw stones. I recorded Inventions backwards just for the hell of it. laugh

Last edited by CEB; 11/14/17 03:18 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #2890247 11/14/17 04:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
She has phenomenal, super-human facility like Yuja Wang.

Stylistically in Bach, I favor more of a lyrical yet probing, relaxed and less edgy approach like Angela Hewitt (who I posted earlier in the thread), Andras Schiff, Mikhail Pletnev and the always extraordinarily musical Murray Perahia. And older interpretations by Rosalyn Turek, Dinu Lipatti, Myra Hess, Robert Casadesus, Richter, William Kempf. And of course the historic recordings by Edwin Fischer.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 11/14/17 05:12 PM.
Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #2890250 11/14/17 04:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
Lyrical and relaxed is difficult. Chopin kicked my rear because of this. Subtlety is hard.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045431 05/23/20 04:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
CEB Offline OP
10k Club
OP Offline
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,810
Likes: 21
When too little to reach the pedals play Bach.

The D minor Prelude from WTC II. She is cute.



"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #3045491 05/23/20 05:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 439
Likes: 3
S
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 439
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
No Bach thread should be complete without mentioning the Canadian pianist Angela Hewitt. ...

Wow, I didn't know of her. Such an amazing performance!

1 member likes this: CEB
Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045516 05/23/20 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by Sam CA
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
No Bach thread should be complete without mentioning the Canadian pianist Angela Hewitt. ...

Wow, I didn't know of her. Such an amazing performance!


She's the pianist whose Fazioli 278 was accidentally dropped and damaged beyond repair.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/11/virtuoso-mourns-beloved-150000-piano-smashed-by-movers

1 member likes this: CEB
Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045539 05/23/20 11:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,998
Likes: 12
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,998
Likes: 12
I remember back in the 1970's, my piano teacher telling me that Bach would make me appreciate black keys. Then the first Bach piece I had to learn was in C. It did have a few accidentals.


This post edited for speling.
Re: A Bach Thread
RABid #3045651 05/24/20 04:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 5
G
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
G
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by RABid
I remember back in the 1970's, my piano teacher telling me that Bach would make me appreciate black keys. Then the first Bach piece I had to learn was in C. It did have a few accidentals.

Huh...

I have accidents every time I sit down at a keyboard...

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: A Bach Thread
Dave Ferris #3045659 05/24/20 05:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 439
Likes: 3
S
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 439
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
She's the pianist whose Fazioli 278 was accidentally dropped and damaged beyond repair.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/11/virtuoso-mourns-beloved-150000-piano-smashed-by-movers


That was PAINFUL to read. I hope after insurance fights, she recovers her investment.


"In a Facebook post Hewitt said her F278 Fazioli, the only one in the world fitted with four pedals, and worth at least £150,000, was “kaputt”. She said: “I hope my piano will be happy in piano heaven.”

I wonder what was the 4th pedal for?

Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045700 05/25/20 12:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
K
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
K
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by Sam CA
I wonder what was the 4th pedal for?

Clutch.

Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045737 05/25/20 04:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 7
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by Sam CA
I wonder what was the 4th pedal for?
If I remember right, it's the grand equivalent of an upright's soft pedal.

On a grand, the left pedal -- Una Corda -- moves the action sideways so that only one string out of each treble triplet is struck, and bass strings are hit by the softer corner of the hammer. In addition to softening the sound somewhat, it more importantly changes the timbre, since now you're striking one treble string while the other two become resonators.

On an upright (usually) the soft pedal simply shifts the hammers a little farther from the rest of the action -- closer to the strings -- so that you can't deliver as much energy to the hammer's hit. It still makes full centered contact with strings / triplets, but lower velocity makes it softer.

I'm pretty sure that the 4th Fazioli pedal is the same idea -- the hammer strikes full on center, but with less energy, giving a different timbre from the traditional Una Corda pedal.


-Tom Williams
<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
PC361, PX-5S, AX-Edge
M-Audio Keystation 88, Axiom 61
Re: A Bach Thread
Tom Williams #3045751 05/25/20 11:43 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14
Kind of. As I mentioned in the Hewitt/Fazioli thread: on a modern grand, the una corda pedal shifts the action so that two of three strings are struck - so one less. This results in a change in volume and timbre, since the softer part of the hammer is striking two strings.

The Fazioli fourth pedal moves the hammers closer to the strings (like an upright) which results in a reduction in volume, but not a dramatic change in timbre. thu

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045769 05/25/20 03:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 126
Likes: 1
R
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 126
Likes: 1
I gave up trying to play Bach long ago when taking lessons as I found it frustrating and easy to hit wrong notes. My teacher had me working on 2 part inventions right off.
I think that was a mistake. I found the book First lessons in Bach by Walter Carroll a few years ago and started working on them. I found those a much better intro to Bach to build confidence.
Also, I found fingering really helps me learn Bach. I started the Inventions and put fingering on every note even if obvious. That really helped me. Takes patience to get them up to speed.
They really help finger independence and make you concentrate. Working on no.13 now. Whenever I get to the end I'll do the 3 part. WTC book1 I've been working on also.
The fugue in C# major is a bitch but beautiful. Double sharps take getting used to. Having hands centered a lot over black keys in C# tests the weak fingers on whites.

Re: A Bach Thread
re Pete #3045867 05/26/20 05:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
K
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
K
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by re Pete
Also, I found fingering really helps me learn Bach. I started the Inventions and put fingering on every note even if obvious. That really helped me.

This. Every note, every heel and toe.

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045869 05/26/20 06:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 439
Likes: 3
S
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 439
Likes: 3
Thanks for all the comments in regards to the 4th pedal. I didn't think it was just a soft pedal. I was thinking it was a custom something that probably comes handy for period music of some sort. I may have misunderstood the article. I thought this particular piano was the only Fazioli piano with this custom but official 'upgrade'.

Re: A Bach Thread
Sam CA #3045875 05/26/20 09:22 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 14
In addition to reducing the volume, rapid passages are easier to play as the hammers have less distance to travel.

What the article doesn’t mention is that the fourth pedal is standard on Fazioli’s flagship model, so it’s an easy misunderstanding to make. It was unique only to Hewitt’s model, which has three pedals as standard - in other words, it was the only model 278 in the world to have a fourth pedal.

Re: A Bach Thread
CEB #3045950 05/26/20 06:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 677
Likes: 3
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 677
Likes: 3
Bach is such an amazing composer. I appreciate him more and more every year I play. My teacher handed me the WTC told me to pick a Prelude and Fugue, so without listening to any, I picked C minor (BWV 847) because it kinda looked like a Hanon exercise at first glance. I will NEVER make that mistake again. 😂 Took me 5 months to get it down at a passable allegro speed, but boy, it will do amazing things for your technique!!

For 2-part inventions, I suggest #4.


1975 Hammond A105/122RV, Yamaha N2 AvantGrand, Hohner D6 Clavinet, 1978 Minimoog Model D, Korg Mono/Poly, Yamaha CS-60, Arturia KeyLab mkII
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4