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#2339869 - 09/16/11 06:58 AM Best brass/horns libraries?
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1851
Loc: Clarkston MI
Alright I give up! Ive done everything I can to get quality horn/brass patches with my hardware boards. I bought all available brass libraries for motif XS and I'm really not satisfied. I hate to resort to software, but I guess I have too. So what is the best software library out there for brass/horns?

Started a new funk band and the horns need to sound good (real).
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#2339886 - 09/16/11 07:15 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mogut]
Brigham Young Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 28


Edited by Brigham Young (09/16/11 02:10 PM)
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#2339895 - 09/16/11 07:26 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mogut]
Mark Zeger Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 5081
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Mogut
Started a new funk band and the horns need sound good (real).

Um...then get real horns. At the very least, find a sax player for 1 part of the section then you fill in behind them with brass on keyboard. If the band is going to sound legit, this is the solution. You'd be surprise how good any sample/model/synth brass will sound with a live instrument on top.

OK, so I'm biased.

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#2339910 - 09/16/11 07:46 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Brigham Young]
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1851
Loc: Clarkston MI
Originally Posted By: Brigham Young
Damn!

Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Um...then get real horns.
Might be cheaper! But then I'll constantly have to be fending them off wanting to play Chicago tunes all night! wave
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#2339911 - 09/16/11 07:47 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mark Zeger]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 1003
Loc: Los Angeles
Has anyone ever tried splitting the horn parts between two or more keyboard players? I would guess that the difference in phrasing, timing etc. would begin to approximate some of the "realism" of a true horn section.
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#2339926 - 09/16/11 08:18 AM Re: Best brass/horns libraries? [Re: Mogut]
D-Bon Offline
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Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 7498
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
It's your lucky day: Nord just announced they added new brass sounds to their sample library.

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#2339963 - 09/16/11 09:38 AM Re: Best brass/horns libraries? [Re: D-Bon]
Mogut Offline
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Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1851
Loc: Clarkston MI
Well grab my crotch and call me michael!
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#2339965 - 09/16/11 09:46 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mark Zeger]
mcgoo Offline
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Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 1963
Loc: Indianapolis
Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
At the very least, find a sax player for 1 part of the section then you fill in behind them with brass on keyboard. If the band is going to sound legit, this is the solution. You'd be surprise how good any sample/model/synth brass will sound with a live instrument on top.


Very true. I did a fill in gig recently where the band called "Chain of Fools". The sax player made eye contact with me & visually directed me to follow his pattern on the choruses. Simple stuff & my ROMpler horns sounded great underneath his sax. Without him it woulda sounded cheesy, & I would've just left them out (& played organ instead).
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#2339992 - 09/16/11 10:25 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: mcgoo]
learjeff Offline
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Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 7650
Loc: NC, USA
One real horn goes a long way to making synth brass sound much more legit. Makes a huge difference. I remember when a local (Michigan) whiz kid named McCaffery used to play sax with one hand and early polysynth with the other, back in the 70's, and do a mean job of a horn section.

I also don't play horn parts with horn sounds; I play a part on organ that serves the same purpose. I'd rather be what I am and do what I do than try to imitate what I'm not.

I have nothing against those who love to imitate, and some are amazingly good at it. Unfortunately, more than a few aren't. When it's not really good, it's amazingly cheezy.

Another old memory, at an art fair approaching the bandstand, hearing a killer violin solo. As I got nearer I looked for but couldn't find the violinist. As I got close enough, I could tell that it was a keyboard player, and the synth's tone wasn't even that convincing. But his phrasing and technique nailed the violin approach and that made it work.
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#2340010 - 09/16/11 11:51 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: learjeff]
b3maniac Offline
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Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 162
Loc: South Carolina Beach Music Cou...
I like the MoJo horns for Motown, R&B, pop. They are especially good when used in conjunction with a real horn. (I use them in the studio with a live trumpet,and have have used them for gigging with a live sax). However, I find that some of the section horns on my Motif ES also blend well with the sax for playing live. So I'm currently using the Motif horns instead of carrying the laptop around. Don


Edited by b3maniac (09/16/11 11:51 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#2340027 - 09/16/11 12:47 PM Re: Best brass/horns libraries? [Re: Mogut]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 2873
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Phrasing, technique, and ambience are a lot more important than just notes. I spent years around live reeds, brass, flutes, and strings to have learned the nuances. Didn't realize it at the time that my ears were developing. Once you get the technique and phrasing down it can sound like a section. Ambience is very necessary as many brass/reed samples were recorded completely dry.

Probably the toughest to nail is fiddle (not classical violin).

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#2340043 - 09/16/11 01:50 PM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: learjeff]
Mark Zeger Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 5081
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: learjeff
I remember when a local (Michigan) whiz kid named McCaffery used to play sax with one hand and early polysynth with the other, back in the 70's, and do a mean job of a horn section.

When I saw James Taylor several years ago, he had Lou Marini on sax and Walt Fowler on trumpet. Walt played trumpet with his right hand and a Motif with his left fattening up the horn parts. Sounded fantastic for 2 guys. I've tried it but have to transpose the keyboard into Bb.

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#2340055 - 09/16/11 02:25 PM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mark Zeger]
Brigham Young Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 28
i updated my list

the nord new brass library sounds actually well
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm=Sound%20Libraries&cllibr=Nord_Sample_Library&clslib=Wind/Brass
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#2340056 - 09/16/11 02:27 PM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Brigham Young]
Brigham Young Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 28
Nord is getting more actractive . If they get better samples
than this, its going to be a must have


Edited by Brigham Young (09/16/11 02:32 PM)
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#2340272 - 09/17/11 08:29 PM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Brigham Young]
LesMizzell Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 329
Loc: Southeast USA
If you're going software. Forget the samples. Try:
http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/

I'm not using ANY brass samples anymore ...

Couple of examples
http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/music/Martin%20Persson%20-%20WIVI%20-%20Messing%20Around.mp3

http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/music/WA%20Mozart%20-%20WIVI%20-%20Gran%20Partita.mp3

http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/music/Martin%20Persson%20-%20WIVI%20-%20Fedja.mp3
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#2340296 - 09/18/11 01:16 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: LesMizzell]
non c'e futuro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/11
Posts: 437
Loc: Spain
wow, that sounds good!
And price looks nice too... smile

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#2340297 - 09/18/11 01:18 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: LesMizzell]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I made the mistake of buying the Wallander Saxophones and then getting turned off altogether (the demo version of the program is utterly useless for evaluating what it can do for you -- you're better off just listening to the audio demos instead). To me, the saxes sound like synths.

Only recently did I learn that these are considered their least successful efforts.

The Sample Modeling stuff is fantastic, but I don't use it for classical as the timbre is too "splatty" and the playing is too "loose", even after some production. But wow, it sure fits Jazz, Broadway, Big Band, R&B/Funk/Reggae and Pop/Rock!

The Vir2 library sounds nice from the audio demos. If I ever find it marked down 50% I might add it to the collection, but by then I expect Sample Modeling will have released Soprano Sax (latest demos published this week are amazing), Horn, and Tuba.

I remain curious about Wallander for non-sax sounds but have been afraid to spend the money. But I may study their price tiering as the intro package may have discounts for the larger ones (owning the older sax library does entitle me to a discount on either woodwinds or brass but I forget which).

The subset of Chris Hein Horns that is in Kontakt served as placeholders for me while awaiting Sample Modeling's developments. They have the right timbre for jazz and can go a bit splatty for expression and realistic phrasing. But I've had zero luck getting anything musical out of the uber-expensive guitar library so have been hesitant to dump money on any of the three high-priced CHH libs.

I NEVER use sections for anything -- sounds too synthy. I avoid block chords like the plague and consider that an organist's approach. So I never care about horn sections in libraries; I piece together individual parts and make sure they aren't quantized or otherwise straight-up aligned. People breathe at different times, for one thing (or should, if they've been trained properly to listen to what's going on around them). At the very least, True Divisi is needed (and few provide it).

For symphonic stuff, aside from VSL (and their new Dimension Brass library), there is Hollywood Brass from EWQL, and CInebrass (which many swear by, and which I have kept on my radar). Miroslav Philharmonik (easily obtainable in its full edition for $99 or less, if you time it right) can be quite good and has Breath Control patches (no one else does, except Sample Modeling), and they also cover some unusual articulations and playing styles. The same goes for Sonic Implants.
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#2340582 - 09/18/11 07:41 PM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mark Schmieder]
LesMizzell Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 329
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
I remain curious about Wallander for non-sax sounds ...


I've not used the saxes. The only sax I'll ever use is a real one.

I've had great success with the main brass instruments - trumpets and trombones. Less with the winds.

For winds and brass and strings, I'm using Wallander and Synful. The two together do a really nice job for most of my orchestrations, especially when combining some Vienna string samples with the Synful strings.
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#2340844 - 09/19/11 03:33 PM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Mark Zeger]
Wastrel Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 1003
Loc: Los Angeles
[quote=Mark Zeger I've tried it but have to transpose the keyboard into Bb. [/quote]

Now THAT would be a legitimate use for the transpose button on your synth...
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#2340965 - 09/20/11 12:16 AM Re: Best brass/horns? [Re: Wastrel]
non c'e futuro Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/11
Posts: 437
Loc: Spain
Originally Posted By: Wastrel

Now THAT would be a legitimate use for the transpose button on your synth...


+1 laugh

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#2341836 - 09/23/11 04:26 AM Re: Best brass/horns libraries? [Re: Mogut]
Bumbados Offline
Member

Registered: 09/23/11
Posts: 1
the best free is Dsk Brass.
First Call Horns(big fish audio)blew my mind with the expression
an Milestone sound very good for a single horn player with air expression but there ar many programs out with the same expressions.

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