metromike Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Currently learning this song (in E flat minor - ugh). Anyway, I have my Motif split with a clav patch on the bottom half for the main riffs of the song, but i am having trouble finding some good horn pathces. My typical horn patches are really "brassy"; and on the recording it almost sounds like there are some saxes in the part (more so than trumpets)..?? You guys have any thoughts on parts I can layer together?? Thanks!! Quote Gear: Roland RD700, Yamaha MotifES6, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland JP-8000, Roland AX-7, Roland Juno-106. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yeah it's more brass/sax ensemble. I can't help with specific Motif patches, and in my case, we let the guitar player handle those riffs (SRV style). There's already TWO clavinet parts in the tune, so I'm busy enough as it is. Note that learning this means you'll nail down "Higher Ground" and "I Wish" soon thereafter. Stevie Wonder loves E flat minor. Quote I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If you already have a performance built for the split, then add a sax section sound in as a 3rd voice to go with the brass sound you already have going. The Sfortzando brass is a good sound to start with, then (at least on my S90ES) there was a sax section that was called "4 Brothers" that is pretty thick sounding that you could blend in. I play clav on my Nord Stage for this, and then have a brass performance that is 4 different parts that I can blend with the volume faders to bring out more sax, less sax, more trumpet, etc. Quote Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B3 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Besides the main clav riff, I switch to B3 to do the horn parts, and the guitar player doubles with me, with octaves. It sounds very thick. Of course, in the case of my band, we can take some liberties to not have to sound like the original and to play our own version, that´s not everybody´s case... Quote My drawbars go to eleven. Gear: Roland VR-09, Nord Electro 2 61, Korg CX-3. Hear my music: facebook.com/smokestoneband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Stevie Wonder loves E flat minor. I've noticed this as well, and often wondered if it was because it's easier for him to find those keys physically. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 What's better than Eb pentatonic. Relish the key. I enjoyed that key better than E. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think you are right, it's easier to find black keys than the white keys due to their 2-3-2-3 pattern. I myself often wondered is it because it's easier to find the keys or he just likes Eb. I like how Eb sounds though, somehow it sounds cooler than, I dunno, ordinary E. Quote Custom handmade clocks: www.etsy.com/shop/ClockLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_3guy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 What's better than Eb pentatonic. Relish the key. I enjoyed that key better than E. or he just likes Eb. I like how Eb sounds though, somehow it sounds cooler than, I dunno, ordinary E. I've never liked E. Never liked soloing in E. It's a guitar player key. They take any tune that's in F or Eb, basterdize it & play it in E. I can solo all day long in Eb or F. I love how Eb & Bb sounds - dark & moody, mysterious. Quote Steve www.seagullphotodesign.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Eb is generally better than E for us horn players and Stevie's horn charts are some of the best ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 It's never been an issue for Stevie finding one key "easier" than the others, as he's so much of a bad ass. Horn's were likely the biggest reason for Eb, followed by his love for "flatted" keys in general. Lots of Stevie tunes are in Eb, Db, and Ab. When I play Superstition with a horn band, its always Eb, when a guitarist calls it, it's most often in E. I always play the horn lines on Hammond and it sounds great! Besides, with 8 clav parts in the original, there is no way to really cover it all 100%, so the right feel and overall spirit is far more important. Quote Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Sharrock Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Dan's on the money with the Sax section. Try editing the main brass sound to give a bend up to the note when played hard (Pitch envelope velocity). That helps get the feel for the top Bb note in the brass run in the verse. Also add a swell to the filter/amp for the sustain notes. There are a couple of brass patches that already do swell, copy the parameters to your favourite brass sound to give some movement. I have this programmed on my XF if you need more info. Quote Gig rig: Motif XF8,Roland A37~laptop,Prophet 08,Yam WX5~VL70m. Studio: V-Synth GT,Korg DW8000,A33,Blofeld,N1R,KS Rack,too many VSTs Freefall www.f-music.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRubberDuck Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I play it in both Eb and E (for a female singer who has trouble reaching the low notes). I try to emulate Stevie's flat finger, percussive style too, cause it sounds closer to the original (in a way people actually notice). It is significantly easier to do on the higher, black keys. Not that Stevie wasn't a bad-ass. Just sayin. DRD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Besides, with 8 clav parts in the original... EIGHT?! I thought it was two. Ah well, it's more than one anyway. :-) Agree that Hammond sounds great on this as well. -John Quote I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I also use a hammond for this part. I try to avoid as many brass part as possible. Sometimes they work if the notes are short, but for long brass chords, I almost never find them convincing. Quote Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzjazz Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You can find the multi-track on various torrent sites. The 8 parts are really just two with different clav pickup variations and effects, if I remember correctly. So great to hear that after all these years. I drove myself nuts trying to get it down when I was 18 but quickly realised it was multitracked and made a composite part for myself - have fun with it. Darren Besides, with 8 clav parts in the original... EIGHT?! I thought it was two. Ah well, it's more than one anyway. :-) Agree that Hammond sounds great on this as well. -John Quote www.dazzjazz.com PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation. BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano. my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites 1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 BTW, what I posted above about the key being easier to find was in no way meant to be a slag on Stevie. He kicks ass, and I'm sure he has tunes in various keys (I've not checked, but I've seen a few). Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I also use a hammond for this part. I try to avoid as many brass part as possible. Sometimes they work if the notes are short, but for long brass chords, I almost never find them convincing. My feeling exactly. Keyboard horns work best for stabs. For longer notes, the static, prefabbed nature of the typical horn patch gets laid bare. By contrast, a B3 with chorus and leslie has lots of groovy movement inside it. Use a hammond sound. Experiment with changing leslie speeds mid-phrase. Everyone will love it. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polkahero Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'm trying to get my band to perform this tune, and I wrote out all the horn charts from the original isolated track recordings. The issue right now I guess is the key (guitarist would rather play it in E but seeing as he is the main vocalist it would be easier to sing in Eb?), plus my bandleader (who is the keyboardist) needs to figure out the clav part I wrote out for him. With his limited practice time, this might take a while to get down. Not to mention out band rarely rehearses because we're so spread out. Quote '57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, Leslie 251, Leslie 330, Leslie 770, Leslie 145, Hammond PR-40 Trek II UC-1A Alesis QSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 FYI I used this: http://www.halleonard.com/product/viewproduct.do?itemid=310942&menuid=810&subsiteid=3&&viewtype=songlist and it provided both parts. Definitely got the major bits if not dead-on note-for-note. -John Quote I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You can find the multi-track on various torrent sites. Any chance you could provide a link, or a file with those 8 seperate parts? I'd love to hear it broken down. Quote Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 A blind man can "feel" the black keys much faster than the white. Small wonder that Stevie favored Eb Ab Db keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You can find the multi-track on various torrent sites. Any chance you could provide a link, or a file with those 8 seperate parts? I'd love to hear it broken down. Klonk Here for the Superstition Multitrack Quote Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've never liked E. Never liked soloing in E. It's a guitar player key. They take any tune that's in F or Eb, basterdize it & play it in E. +1. F*ck E. Quote Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Horn's were likely the biggest reason for Eb, followed by his love for "flatted" keys in general. Lots of Stevie tunes are in Eb, Db, and Ab. Could be. But that doesn't mean he always chose keys that were easy. He has Dizzy Gillespie play a trumpet solo in the ridiculous key of B concert. He sure didn't do him any favors with that. I wonder if Stevie just likes the 'sound' of those keys? When I play Superstition with a horn band, its always Eb, when a guitarist calls it, it's most often in E. I always play the horn lines on Hammond and it sounds great! Besides, with 8 clav parts in the original, there is no way to really cover it all 100%, so the right feel and overall spirit is far more important. Totally my experience too. I'll be subbing with a band and start this tune off in Ebm and get confused looks from the guitar player and realize 'this is a band that does it in Em'. At least I get to do a cool modulation to Em. Overall feel and vibe are definitely more important than creating every nuance of the impossible clav part. Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Stevie grew up playing Gospel music where in black churches most of the songs are played in flatted keys. No doubt, the man is talented enough to play in any key that *feels* right to him at the moment. Quote PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Prof is right. And thank you Meisenhower! Quote Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanS Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If you already have a performance built for the split, then add a sax section sound in as a 3rd voice to go with the brass sound you already have going. The Sfortzando brass is a good sound to start with, then (at least on my S90ES) there was a sax section that was called "4 Brothers" that is pretty thick sounding that you could blend in. I play clav on my Nord Stage for this, and then have a brass performance that is 4 different parts that I can blend with the volume faders to bring out more sax, less sax, more trumpet, etc. We do it in E, as our singer has an easier time a semitone up. I use clav from the S70 & Fantom XR, & a couple of horn patches form the S70 layered up. Don't remember offhand which ones Quote What we record in life, echoes in eternity. MOXF8, Electro 6D, XK1c, Motif XSr, PEKPER, Voyager, Univox MiniKorg. https://www.abandoned-film.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metromike Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks everyone for the great input!! Quote Gear: Roland RD700, Yamaha MotifES6, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland JP-8000, Roland AX-7, Roland Juno-106. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 That is very true Prof, the gospel churches do love those flatted keys and that is where Stevie cut his teeth. On the other hand, like you said, he is talented enough to play in any key, or all of them if he chooses. Here's a short but sweet clip of Stevie playing a little Giant Steps with Stanley Clarke. Not bad for blind guy that loves to play the black keys, eh!! [video:youtube] Quote Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Before the Jazz heavyweights rip Stevie's take on "Giant Steps", keep in mind that he's a composer who plays keys and not a Jazz pianist. The fact that Stevie *hears* well enough to "play at" a tune that is challenging among jazz musos is a testament to his talent IMO. Quote PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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