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#2287476 - 03/30/11 07:56 AM Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison....
Beethree Offline
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I read the older threads on the subject. Particularly interested in hearing from people that have used each. These will not be for kicking bass. I am particularly interested on how "acoustic" piano sounds through them.
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#2287551 - 03/30/11 10:48 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
MoodyBluesKeys Offline
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Since there are over 60 views and no replys yet:
I have not tried both of them. However, I own a pair of K10's, and a pair of EV SXA100+ (which are 12" woofers).

Playing a Kurzweil PC3X with the various acoustic pianos (my most frequent practice is on the Kurzweil, even though I also have an acoustic grand) - not a lot of difference in tonal quality. I really like 12" woofers on keys - since I already had the EV's I had a pair of 12", so I bought the smaller and lighter K10's for carrying around gigging. They do well enough (gigging board is a PC3, sometimes with a Nord E3) that I have not carried the EV's back out, and they are lighter for loadin/loadout. If you are well pleased with your SCA360's - the SXA100+ are a lower priced, slightly lower powered version. If you are going to keep the 360's - why not go with the K10's.
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#2287553 - 03/30/11 10:54 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: MoodyBluesKeys]
tonysounds Online   content
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I had K12s, and now use the K10. My S90es being the “acoustic piano” sounds great those boxes, and while there was a very very slight difference in low end overall, the weight saving of the K10 made it a no brainer for me.
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#2287555 - 03/30/11 10:57 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: tonysounds]
Sven Golly Offline
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Much like Tony, the weight/size savings far overweighed (pun intended) any extra bass the K12 offered.

Using Kurzweil PC3/Motif ES7 for "acoustic piano", FWIW. wink
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#2287560 - 03/30/11 11:16 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Sven Golly]
ITGITC? Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Much like Tony, the weight/size savings far overweighed (pun intended) any extra bass the K12 offered.

Using Kurzweil PC3/Motif ES7 for "acoustic piano", FWIW. wink


This is important, as I often find myself playing LH bass.

If the K10 can do the job, I'm all for a smaller, lighter cabinet.

Thanks!
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#2287563 - 03/30/11 11:28 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: ITGITC?]
Bill H. Online   content
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The horns on these two cabs have different dispersion patterns, which may factor into your decision. The 10 is more of a short throw horn with 90 degree conical dispersion, the 12 a medium throw 75.

If you're using this for monitoring yourself the 10 should work fine, but if you are relying on this to cover rooms of any size, personally I'd move up to the 12 and carry the extra 9 pounds.

I also very much like the sound of a 12 on keyboards in general. It's more than extra bass. They just sound fuller.

I've never used either of these cabs on a gig though so FWIW...

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#2287567 - 03/30/11 11:47 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Bill H.]
rappa29 Offline
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My rig is an XK1 and NE3.

I also switched from a K12 to a K10. Before switching, I used the K12 on a couple of gigs as both main and monitor. It sounded great in both applications.

I exchanged it for a K10 because, I don't play LH bass and more than half of our gigs have FOH, so I use it for a monitor. The few gigs that don't have FOH are small venues and the K10 is plenty. I was complimented recently on an outdoor gig, about how great the K10 sounded 30' out from the stage.

I only had 1 issue with it farting, using it as a main because I had the DEEP switch engaged and I was pushing it harder than necessary. Since then, I've gotten a better idea of my gain structure and it's been holding up and sounding great!

Buy a K12, use it on as many gigs as you can within 30 days, then return it for a K10 if you want. That's what I did! wink

Initially, I was hellbent on, "I want a K12!"

After buying the K12 and using it on 3-4 gigs, I decided the K10 is perfect for my application...light load, small venues and venues that have FOH.

Edited to add: If the gigs with FOH vs no FOH ratio favored the latter, I'd probably have kept the K12. Although, considering the schlep factor, I'd probably still end up with the K10. Heck, even then, I had to carry my K10 2 blocks for one of our gigs and that sucked!! That QSC bag\case is pretty and fits it perfectly, but why they didn't put wheels on it is beyond me! I promptly ordered a speaker case\bag with wheels after that gig!! smile


Edited by rappa29 (03/30/11 11:59 AM)

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#2287571 - 03/30/11 11:58 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Bill H.]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Haven't heard the K10 but have heard the K12 and I prefer your EV 360s for AP myself.

Unlike most here, I'm not a huge QSC fan. I like 'em better then JBL or Mackie but that's about it.

I thought the 360 sounded more defined along with a smoother top end then the K12. I A/B ed them early last summer in a SA with a CP300 fwiw. Personally I haven't used the K12 on a gig but my friend has.

He uses an S90XS and plays in a band with a LOTTA guitars. They do Allman Bros, Poco, CSN, Marshall Tucker--that Southern Rock/Chuck Leavell type thing. He used the K12s for about 6 months and was complaining to me that when the dbs started increasing on gigs, the Yamaha piano started losing it's tonal quality with the QSCs. He said he had a hard time keeping up with 3 guitars and pedal steel. cry
I told him about the EVs. He took a chance, bought a pair on closeout for a under $1200, within a week he'd put the K12s up on the St. Louis CL. smile

Personally I'd keep the EVs for best AP sound. Next step up I'd recommend would be the RCF 710A or 712/722A. Gonna cost more dough but you get what you pay for. RCF makes the finest plastic box that I've heard. I'd put it against many companies' Chinese wood boxes.
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#2287611 - 03/30/11 02:11 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Dave Ferris]
Beethree Offline
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I don't hate my EV's by any means. I do find them to have a bump around 100hz, and they also seem EXTREMELY directional. Depending on positioning on stage they can seem quiet to me while too loud for my bandmates, or vice versa. I am thinking the wider dispersion pattern of the K series would be a plus. Also....the dual inputs are an attractive feature, and with the K10, the smaller footprint and slightly lighter weight would also be a plus.
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#2287640 - 03/30/11 04:40 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
Dave Ferris Offline
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You're right, they are directional. I sold mine last summer to Brian Ho here on the forum, but I still really like the tone of them though. I found when I put them on poles as foh, the horn didn't project all that well and the dispersion wasn't good. But to be fair, they were designed originally has wedges plus they are an older design as opposed to the QSCs.

Again I haven't used either QSC extensively on a gig. Just at a more "Jazz" level in the store--up close and personal I liked the 360's tone better then the K12 and that was with the CP300.
I'm sure the DP "sound" enters into the equation as well. Also I think at that price point, there's always going to be something that bugs you. I do think it is an apples to apples fair comparison though.

I also like that particular EV box for the fact that it's made in the US and the amp module is constructed in Germany at Bosch's Dynacord Hq. The only EV MI boxes that are US, that I'm aware of left, are the 360 and the ZXA1 & 5.

If you don't mind the 47-48 lbs, you might want to demo the new Yamaha DSR112s. They are getting rave reviews on the Pro sound forums from people that bought them over the QSCs. I'm sure they'd go loud, I'd question the clarity when put up against an RCF 712/722A--then again, they're half the price.. And then again, 48 lbs. takes them out of the realm of portability. smile

The good thing is that the DSR112s, like the QSCs, are fairly easy to hear in an MI or local Pro Sound Co. store as opposed to the RCFs---which are near impossible.
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#2287644 - 03/30/11 05:08 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Just wanted to add-- on the footprint issue you're right there too. It got to the point where I rarely used two for stereo unless it was a concert on a bigger stage. Two 360s took up just too darn much real estate!

However I think with any 12" box there is going to be space considerations, especially if you're going stereo.

To briefly comment on that on going debate, Sunday night the band was cranking pretty good. I brought the pair of RCF TT08As. Set one on a pole behind me, just slightly above ear level and the other one on the floor, just under my CP5. I had both speakers panned hard right and left on the mixer.
Midway through the second set when the volume started to rise, I shut off the floor 08A and changed the pan of the single speaker on my A&H Zed 10 to 12 o'clock. Lost some of the imaging but he sound was more focused.

As I've said in the past, for louder volume scenarios, I feel mono is better.

For a very lightweight, high powered, single 10" box, I would go to great lengths to hear the RCF 710A. Expect to pay around $850-900 though.
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#2287667 - 03/30/11 06:47 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
Bill H. Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Beethree
I don't hate my EV's by any means. I do find them to have a bump around 100hz, and they also seem EXTREMELY directional. Depending on positioning on stage they can seem quiet to me while too loud for my bandmates, or vice versa. I am thinking the wider dispersion pattern of the K series would be a plus. Also....the dual inputs are an attractive feature, and with the K10, the smaller footprint and slightly lighter weight would also be a plus.


The horns on those EVs are listed as having a 65 degree pattern. I have a pair of Yorkvilles with a 60 degree pattern and yeah - when you get down that tight things get very directional.

The 90 degree conical pattern of the K10s means that you should be able to place them practically anywhere onstage and hear them. I'll bet that's why QSC used that particular horn on the K10 - so they could be used as wedges as well as on stands. But even the K12 should be better than what you have.

If this is important to you, be sure to look at the HF dispersion specs of the speakers you are considering. It's something a lot of guys don't pay any attention to.

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#2287672 - 03/30/11 07:43 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Bill H.]
VegasGT3 Offline
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I have one of each. The K12 sounds fuller and more rounded, the K10 is punchier, but they are both fine for me. The K10 is easy to transport and fits into the bonnet of my boxster, so it is the choice for the small gig or rehearsal.

I will say that the difference really comes down to weight and size more than the sound. It's not the 9 pounds, but also the bulk and space it takes up. Medium size rooms will get the K12, but large rooms I go through the PA and I would use the K10 as a monitor. Therefore, I declare the K10 as the most versatile choice.
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#2287682 - 03/30/11 09:19 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: VegasGT3]
J. Dan Offline
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This is timely, as I've been considering a purchase of one of these. My application's a bit different, however. I currently have a Crate 10" powered speaker that sounds like hell. I don't use it as a live monitor anymore, though, I use IEM's. It's sort of a utility speaker for me. If I'm just wanting to set something up and practice somewhere, or running music at a small gathering, or need a little speech reinforcement for a presentation for my day job. However, the sound is so bad, that if I am writing new patches, I have to monitor through headphones or IEM's, or the sounds won't turn out right (my studio is currently in storage).

So, would either/or the 10"/12" be suitable for monitoring for sound programming, etc? Would some of my applications (speech in a room of 50 people) warrant the narrower dispersion of the 12", especially considering schlep factor isn't much of an issue? If I want to go for best sound QUALITY, not volume, is there enough of a difference to warrant the 12? Keep in mind also, I do a lot of synth stuff, including synth bass...and if I mix it too bass heavy, the FOH subs go nuts an the sound guys hit my channel with the HP filter (I hate that!).
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#2287688 - 03/30/11 10:24 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: J. Dan]
allan_evett Offline
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Dan, I've listened to K12's in use. I suspect you'd be happier with the K12, considering its' narrow dispersion and the fact that you'd be using it - in part - for full room applications. Positioned properly, it would sound great for personal monitoring as well.
To tie that in with the OP's original question: I'm very happy with my K10 for onstage monitoring. I play 'piano' through it quite a bit; sounds great. The small footprint is quite helpful too. It finally farted last week, but it wasn't a piano tone that was the cause. I was playing a punchy, bag pipe sort of lead; got a tad low on the Motif, and experienced a velocity spike due to onstage antics. Checking later, I noticed that I'd accidentally left the Master Effect off on the Motif; it normally puts a slight compression on the sound. That may have been the issue, as I'd played some low and loud leads at previous gigs without farts being produced by the K10.
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#2287695 - 03/31/11 01:28 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: allan_evett]
rocket man Offline
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How are you going to positions the K10 or K12? -Lying on its side or upright? With the 90 degree or 75 degree horn dispersion, that shall make a difference.

I have a pair of K12 speakers (I chose the K12 to handle low frequency synthesizer--think: beginning note of "Jump"), with a Nord Stage and a Yamaha XS for piano sounds. Both sound good through the K12s, with the exception of about four notes that tend to "honk" on some patches. I have inserted a 15 band stereo equalizer between the mixer and the speakers for "honk" control, and I only engage the eq. when those few piano patches drive me nuts.

Also, the "500 watt" / channel amp (same amp for both the K10 and K12) is nice until driven hard. Then, things sound stressed. It would have made much more sense for QSC to have given 70 watts to the woofer and 300 watts to the horn driver. Incidentally, there are many different ways to rate power. Whereas QSC advertises "1000 watts", realistically think 250 watts per woofer and 250 watts per driver.

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#2289091 - 04/04/11 09:50 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: rocket man]
Beethree Offline
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Played through a k10 last night on stage, and again this afternoon side by side with an EV sxa360.
It did pretty well on the gig. Stage volume of the band was loud, but I was kind of off in my own little corner. It ended up doing just fine volume wise.
I did experience a little harshness in the high end...not sure however if I that was a result of me .pushing my mixer, which I don't ordinarily use, At least at my moderate volume today, it was not an issue. I need to try to recreate the problem when I am home alone.
The EV speakers, which are 12', definitely have a slightly richer sound, compared to the K 10, which is a little brighter and more forward. The EV also has an artificial bump around 100 hz, which has always nagged me.

The form factor of the k10 is appealing. I am actually considering, should I keep it, getting a k12 to pair it off with instead of another k10. The flexibility of bringing one or the other, or both, appeals to me. I suspect that they will be matched closely enough to sound fine in stereo, but I am a staunch mono advocate anyway, I do like two speakers for gigs where the instruments are not mic'd.
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#2289094 - 04/04/11 09:51 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: VegasGT3]
Beethree Offline
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Originally Posted By: VegasGT3
I have one of each. The K12 sounds fuller and more rounded, the K10 is punchier, but they are both fine for me. The K10 is easy to transport and fits into the bonnet of my boxster, so it is the choice for the small gig or rehearsal.

I will say that the difference really comes down to weight and size more than the sound. It's not the 9 pounds, but also the bulk and space it takes up. Medium size rooms will get the K12, but large rooms I go through the PA and I would use the K10 as a monitor. Therefore, I declare the K10 as the most versatile choice.


Have you tried running them together, either as dual mono or in stereo?


Edited by Beethree (04/04/11 09:52 AM)
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#2289271 - 04/04/11 07:20 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
VegasGT3 Offline
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Only at home, not on stage. I don't have a need for stereo on stage and I would go through the PA if I needed more than one K10 or K12. It sounds fine at home, both stereo and mono.
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#2289274 - 04/04/11 07:47 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: VegasGT3]
kanker. Offline
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Originally Posted By: VegasGT3
I don't have a need for stereo on stage and I would go through the PA if I needed more than one K10 or K12.
thu
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#2289349 - 04/05/11 06:22 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: kanker.]
Beethree Offline
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I would like to add, after having an empty house to try this, that the EV holds its tone Better at higher volumes than does the QSC.
Still on the fence......

QSC pros: Better form factor, wider dispersion, flatter response in the low end.
EV pros : Slightler nicer, if colored tone in the highs and mids. Handles higher volume more gracefully.
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#2289628 - 04/06/11 06:27 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
Beethree Offline
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I think I am the only one still following this thread - but anyway......
I am going to go listen to the JBL PRX612M today.
12' woofer - supposedly handles high SPL's better than the QSC,
closer in weight to the k10 than the k12, with a wooden, or partially wooden cabinet, and research shows that they HAVE addressed the chattering noise gate issue that plagued their
500 series. 90 degree dispersion. Same price as the k10. I will have the k10 and receipt in my car, and if I prefer the JBL I will exchange it.

The K10's seem fine for onstage monitoring with instruments through the mains - better than fine. I do play other smaller gigs with various bands where my onstage sound is providing the room sound, and I am very sure one K10 will not cut that, and doubtful that 2 would. They start to sound bad, or at least not as good, before they hit their maximum voulume. So while they COULD be loud enough, I don't think they could be loud enough in their sonic sweet spot. I am sure others have had different experiences, and admittedly I have not tried this, and am making an educated guess, so take that with a grain of salt. I'd be happy to be corrected, or proven wrong on this.
If I am blown away by the JBL's I may start a new thread.
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#2289659 - 04/06/11 07:25 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
DanL Offline
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BeeThree, I use my K10 without PA support all the time and haven't had any issues with it. I was actually told by another keyboard player that I was too loud at one gig, and he was in the back of the room. I don't ever run it past halfway when I have my mixer. When I use a keyboard plugged right in I have to open it up some more, but haven't had any problems with the sound deteriorating.
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#2289666 - 04/06/11 07:41 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
ITGITC? Offline
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Originally Posted By: Beethree
I think I am the only one still following this thread - but anyway......


I am following it.

And I would appreciate you checking out the JBL and reporting back.

I still think a wooden box has the propensity to sound better than a plastic box - everything else being the same.

JBL has been making excellent speakers longer than I can remember. (Of course, as a child of the sixties and seventies that kinda messed me up.) cool

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Mr. Beethree!

Tom
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#2289667 - 04/06/11 07:48 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: DanL]
Beethree Offline
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Originally Posted By: DanL
BeeThree, I use my K10 without PA support all the time and haven't had any issues with it. I was actually told by another keyboard player that I was too loud at one gig, and he was in the back of the room. I don't ever run it past halfway when I have my mixer. When I use a keyboard plugged right in I have to open it up some more, but haven't had any problems with the sound deteriorating.


Good to hear.
I was cranking it in my basement yesterday, and started to get a LITTLE brash and unpleasant distortion when it started to push. Since I don't often (ever) play in my basement with a full band, that is not the most scientific location for me to test it.

If I don't exchange it for the JBL today, I will bring it to a rehearsal tonight.
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#2289672 - 04/06/11 07:56 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
DanL Offline
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The thing I really like about the K10 is the wide angle spread on the sound. My band all says they can hear me much better now vs my old Mackie speaker. I'm thinking of getting another so I can (gasp!) run in stereo, if for nothing more than self indulgence. I love hearing my boards in stereo, and it's a small light package and not much more to hook up.
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#2289678 - 04/06/11 08:08 AM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: DanL]
Beethree Offline
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Posts: 1081
Originally Posted By: DanL
The thing I really like about the K10 is the wide angle spread on the sound. My band all says they can hear me much better now vs my old Mackie speaker.


This is the main reason I am replacing my EV's. I think the EV's sound better than the k10's - no question - but they are highly directional, and I have had instances of band members asking me to turn up when I am plenty loud, or to turn down when I can't hear myself all that well.
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#2289823 - 04/06/11 12:36 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: Beethree]
theGman Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 587
Loc: Banshee, Virginia
I have a K10 and was considering getting another; read above about running a K12 with the K10, and seems to make sense. What would be the disadvantage of doing this?

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#2289830 - 04/06/11 12:59 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: theGman]
ITGITC? Offline
Grand Poobah of Posting
10k Club

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 16404
Loc: Raleigh, NC, USA
Originally Posted By: theGman
What would be the disadvantage of doing this?


The disadvantage is that if you ever have reason to need a matched pair for stereo - as in DJ work or other playback of a recording mastered in stereo, the frequency response will be varied between the two.

If you resell these, you will probably need to sell them as separate items rather than as a pair. Thus, they won't be as attractive to those who are looking for a matched pair.

I would not recommend buying a K12 and a K10 for this reason.

But, that's my opinion and not only do I expect that not everyone here will agree with me, I would be terribly disappointed IF THEY DID! laugh

taz
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#2289920 - 04/06/11 07:27 PM Re: Revisiting the QSC K10 vs. K12 comparison.... [Re: ITGITC?]
VegasGT3 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 271
Loc: Las Vegas
The more I use the K10, the more I like it. It transports so EZ and sounds great as a rehearsal amp or monitor. With a mixer, I doubt you would need more volume. I've played casino stages and would only need 1/2 the output. For large halls or outdoors you are running through a PA anyway, so I don't get this volume discussion at all.

BTW, the EV 360's ARE nice. but they are bigger and heavier and cost a lot too. In a band mix, I see no advantage. Solo Piano or Jazz could be a different story, but I think you would be splitting hairs (but that can be fun!).
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