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#2282730 - 03/14/11 10:32 PM Yoko Ono rap
Gruupi Offline
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I was watching VH1 today and they had a John Lennon concert on. At the end, as an introduction to "Give Peace a Chance", Yoko read a speech kind of like a rap that was a political rant, it sounded like a modern everyday scare tactic speech that could have been written yesterday. I was so surprised when at the end she let on that it was an Adolf Hitler speech. I did some searching but couldn't find a transcription for this speech, does anyone know where I might find it. It is/was kind of scary how people can be scared into things that would normally be considered immoral.
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#2282800 - 03/15/11 08:17 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Gruupi]
dvuksanovich Offline
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Scary and immoral... like breaking up the Beatles?

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#2282807 - 03/15/11 08:34 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: dvuksanovich]
SEHpicker Offline
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Yoko Ono curdles my blood.
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#2282927 - 03/15/11 05:44 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: SEHpicker]
02R96 Offline
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Ahh yeah, staying on point...

Have you looked on YouTube for a video of the speech? It might be easier to track down if we knew what was said.
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#2283054 - 03/16/11 07:11 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: 02R96]
Gruupi Offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vh9tj-ESWk

Ok, I found the clip on YouTube, thanks for the advice 02R96.
Again, I was just surprised after hearing the words that it was Hitler. It probably doesn't have the same impact if you already know ahead of time who the speech was from.
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#2283191 - 03/16/11 03:19 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Gruupi]
d Offline
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Beatles, esp Lennon & Harrison, were big Hitler afficianados; had to do with the Pavlovian response of crowds to mass manipulation &, maybe, just jacking the bar crowds at the Hamburg clubs they played.
Catch some of the photos of Beatle in hotels above crowds with Lennon faking a mustache & giving the Nazi salute (particularly in Australia).

As far as "breaking up the Beatles", give it a rest, kids, & get in touch with history.
The Beatles were breaking up b/c of diffs between Lennon & McCartney (not to mention the hassle of working with a certain whiny guitarist that they both regretted taking on) long before YO hit the scene.
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#2283274 - 03/16/11 07:51 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: d]
Floyd Tatum Offline
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I guess that's supposed to be a joke, the 'hitler afficionados' thing?

Quote:
As far as "breaking up the Beatles", give it a rest, kids, & get in touch with history.
The Beatles were breaking up b/c of diffs between Lennon & McCartney (not to mention the hassle of working with a certain whiny guitarist that they both regretted taking on) long before YO hit the scene.

That's the politically correct line these days. But, let's be real. If there was any chance of them not breaking up, that chance was killed off when she showed up. Can you imagine having that hanging around with someone all day long while you're trying to work? The other beatles should have had the balls to stand up to John and say - "no f****** way. get her out of here, or we walk".

I mean, come on: beatles jamming with Yoko

I'm certainly not advocating anything Hitler said. But, according to this web site, he never said that particular quote.

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#2283278 - 03/16/11 08:07 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: SEHpicker]
Floyd Tatum Offline
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Originally Posted By: SEHpicker
Yoko Ono curdles my blood.

thu She curdles my blood, and curls my toenails.

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#2283354 - 03/17/11 06:02 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: d]
Chad Thorne Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
As far as "breaking up the Beatles", give it a rest, kids, & get in touch with history.
The Beatles were breaking up b/c of diffs between Lennon & McCartney (not to mention the hassle of working with a certain whiny guitarist that they both regretted taking on) long before YO hit the scene.
+1. Yoko's presence helped nothing, but Lennon's insistence that she be present at recording sessions, etc., was the real problem.

As far as Yoko herself, very intelligent, hard-working woman. Her artistic perspective is very unique and doesn't resonate with a lot of people, but I think she's entitled to it. And the fact of the matter is that most of the activist, spiritual or philanthropic stuff Lennon is remembered and idolized for came about as a direct result of his relationship with Ono.

And I do love to regale my bandmates with my version of her song "Don't Worry Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking For Her Hand In The Snow)" on occasion...


Edited by Chad Thorne (03/17/11 06:22 AM)
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#2283357 - 03/17/11 06:14 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Chad Thorne]
Chad Thorne Offline
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#2283366 - 03/17/11 06:50 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Chad Thorne]
Eric Iverson Offline
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Well, the Beatles were masters of crowd manipulation, but I don't think they started any wars or sent anyone to the gas chambers. (Or maybe they were just part of crowd manipulation machine......)
Re: Yoko breaking up the Beatles: Paul McCartney was asked that question recently on TV by Katie Couric, and he said, "No." I guess he would be in a better position to know than most of us... LOL!
To me, it's better for them to break up when they did, than to continue on if it was no longer working for them. Let's just be thankful for the magic they created when it WAS working!
Yoko? I don't like her singing, but certainly don't hate her as a person, and yes indeed, John had a right (like any other man) to be happily married... even if he WAS a Beatle!

PS To make sure I'm not misunderstood, most of your "stars", say Bob Dylan and Miles Davis, understood how to play the game in terms of maintaining their image, etc. etc. although they also rebelled against it, as did the Beatles. I'm not implying anything evil on their part. You also see this phenomenon with Hollywood movie stars - in part they like the attention, except when it drives them crazy.


Edited by Eric Iverson (03/17/11 07:25 AM)

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#2283375 - 03/17/11 07:30 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Eric Iverson]
whitefang Offline
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Who's this "whiny guitarist" d refers to? Certainly he can't mean Harrison, who really was a part of it all even BEFORE Lennon.

And was that Hitler quote the same one about how young people have gotten out of control that was also quoted in the movie "Billy Jack"?

Most of the Hitler quotes people bring up come from speeches he made before being elected Chancellor, in that effort to GET elected. He said a lot of shit he figured the people WANTED to hear, not unlike most modern day American politicians. The trouble started when he began to believe some of it. Not unlike most modern day American politicians...
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#2283388 - 03/17/11 07:52 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Floyd Tatum]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: floyd tatum
I guess that's supposed to be a joke, the 'hitler afficionados' thing?


Not at all a joke; look up some of the pictures to which I referred.
Also check into bios, esp in regard to Harrison. He & his pals in Monty Puthon were big into Hitler.
That doesn't mean they liked him or anything, simply that they studied him historically.
Originally Posted By: floyd tatum

Quote:
As far as "breaking up the Beatles", give it a rest, kids, & get in touch with history.
The Beatles were breaking up b/c of diffs between Lennon & McCartney (not to mention the hassle of working with a certain whiny guitarist that they both regretted taking on) long before YO hit the scene.

That's the politically correct line these days. But, let's be real. If there was any chance of them not breaking up, that chance was killed off when she showed up. Can you imagine having that hanging around with someone all day long while you're trying to work? The other beatles should have had the balls to stand up to John and say - "no f****** way. get her out of here, or we walk".

You don't get the hisory...that's exactly what Lennon was trying to get someone to do---provoke a situation that gave him an out from the band !
He wanted an excuse to leave.
Any study of the band's history & esp his own words makes that clear.
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#2283390 - 03/17/11 07:57 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Who's this "whiny guitarist" d refers to? Certainly he can't mean Harrison, who really was a part of it all even BEFORE Lennon.


Kinda off in yer Beatle history, old pal.

Harrison was Paul's young friend before Lennon & Macca met but not at all part of things until later.
Though they used him as a player, both McCartney & Lennon were frustrated with GH as a player (many of "his" lines were created by PM, JL or George Martin).
Check Geoff Emerick's memoir for some behind the scenes info, then come back.
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#2283460 - 03/17/11 12:08 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: d]
Eric Iverson Offline
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Whiny guitarist?

Well, maybe SOME of his parts were written by John or Paul or George Martin, but he wrote some nice songs that they deemed worthy to record, and played some nice guitar parts (and wrote some good songs) post-Beatles.

Harrison's slide playing is certainly unique, and to my ears, beautiful.

Yes, both John and Paul thought of him as a kid, even after he grew up, based on what I've read. But that's only human. I still think of my little sister Val as my kid sister, although she is the real musical talent in the family, and I am 57 and she is 53.

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#2283466 - 03/17/11 12:23 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Eric Iverson]
Floyd Tatum Offline
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Originally Posted By: Eric Iverson
Re: Yoko breaking up the Beatles: Paul McCartney was asked that question recently on TV by Katie Couric, and he said, "No." I guess he would be in a better position to know than most of us... LOL!

You can't expect Paul to express his true feelings about YO in public, it's not in his best interests to do that. But he has in the past hinted about, or even stated, his dislike for her. But he doesn't seem to do that any more. He's smart - he has to do business with her, and I think he believes it's better for him if he keeps his true feelings to himself. And he'd probably be right about that.

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#2283471 - 03/17/11 12:30 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: d]
Floyd Tatum Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
You don't get the hisory...that's exactly what Lennon was trying to get someone to do---provoke a situation that gave him an out from the band ! He wanted an excuse to leave. Any study of the band's history & esp his own words makes that clear.

So you're saying that instead of just coming out and saying "I'm leaving", that he instead took YO to the studio with him all the time, knowing that it would annoy everybody so much that it would force a breakup, and he could avoid having to do it by himself? I don't think so. That would be an extreme case of passive-aggressive behaviour.

And if it were true, he would have acted differently after the breakup. But, he didn't. They (JL and YO) acted the same after the Beatles were broken up. He went everywhere with her, and did everything with her. She insinuated herself into the spotlight through him.

I think he might have done too much acid. It screwed Peter Green up, too.

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#2283475 - 03/17/11 12:39 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Floyd Tatum]
Eric Iverson Offline
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There is also the fact that the Beatles were a lot younger then, and doubtless have grown up a little since then. I wish George and John were still around - it would be interesting to see them now. Though we did have George until his late 50s. 40 was way too young for John to die!

Plus which, when you're around people on a constant basis, you tend to get on one another's nerves. Which is one reason bands don't tend to last forever, LOL.

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#2284007 - 03/19/11 08:40 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Eric Iverson]
whitefang Offline
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Wasn't that the main reason Billy Preston was brought into the fold? They tended to act like grown-ups once an "outsider" was brought in, and they began to be at their best behavior.

d, Harrison WAS Paul's friend before he met Lennon, but when the band was formed, Harrison WAS a founding member. I believe it was Pete Best they had to "put up with".

As Lennon and McCartney were the predominant songwriters of the group, it was only fitting THEY came up with the riffs Harrison played on record. But it was clear he was up to the task. If he whined at all, it would have been because he felt, and rightly so, that his input and feedback was being ignored by the bigger egos. You have to remember that at the time(1969 or so), McCartney was pretty much full of himself, and Lennon was pretty much full of shit. But in Lennon's defense, he merely brought Yoko into the studio as an observer. In later years, it was McCartney who brought HIS wife into the friggin' BAND!
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#2284056 - 03/19/11 11:17 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Floyd Tatum]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: floyd tatum
Originally Posted By: d
You don't get the hisory...that's exactly what Lennon was trying to get someone to do---provoke a situation that gave him an out from the band ! He wanted an excuse to leave. Any study of the band's history & esp his own words makes that clear.

So you're saying that instead of just coming out and saying "I'm leaving", that he instead took YO to the studio with him all the time, knowing that it would annoy everybody so much that it would force a breakup, and he could avoid having to do it by himself? I don't think so. That would be an extreme case of passive-aggressive behaviour.

And if it were true, he would have acted differently after the breakup. But, he didn't. They were the same after the Beatles were broken up. He went everywhere with her, and did everything with her.

I think he might have done too much acid. It screwed Peter Green up, too.


That's exactly what he did.
& he did it deliberately.
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#2284060 - 03/19/11 11:23 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Eric Iverson]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Eric Iverson
Whiny guitarist?

Well, maybe SOME of his parts were written by John or Paul or George Martin, but he wrote some nice songs that they deemed worthy to record, and played some nice guitar parts (and wrote some good songs) post-Beatles.

Harrison's slide playing is certainly unique, and to my ears, beautiful.

Yes, both John and Paul thought of him as a kid, even after he grew up, based on what I've read. But that's only human. I still think of my little sister Val as my kid sister, although she is the real musical talent in the family, and I am 57 and she is 53.


I agree.
GH actualy wrote some nice tunes early on, even, but his best work, like Macca's best work, came after 1966.
BEFORE THAT LENNON DOMINATED THE BEATLES .

ALLA U CATS WHO THINK YER BEAS FANS NEEDA GET N TOUCH WITH FACTS !!!!
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#2284061 - 03/19/11 11:25 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Wasn't that the main reason Billy Preston was brought into the fold? They tended to act like grown-ups once an "outsider" was brought in, and they began to be at their best behavior.

d, Harrison WAS Paul's friend before he met Lennon, but when the band was formed, Harrison WAS a founding member. I believe it was Pete Best they had to "put up with".

As Lennon and McCartney were the predominant songwriters of the group, it was only fitting THEY came up with the riffs Harrison played on record. But it was clear he was up to the task. If he whined at all, it would have been because he felt, and rightly so, that his input and feedback was being ignored by the bigger egos. You have to remember that at the time(1969 or so), McCartney was pretty much full of himself, and Lennon was pretty much full of shit. But in Lennon's defense, he merely brought Yoko into the studio as an observer. In later years, it was McCartney who brought HIS wife into the friggin' BAND!
Whitefang

You are just wrong, Fang.
Grow some facts, instead of what you think happened.
As is the case, atttested to by engineer Emerick, GH CONSTANTLY complained that he wasn't allowed to be creative.
Then, after HOURSSSSSSSSSSS in the studio, he'd fail to come up with a part.

[Hey, that's not really SO BAD, THESE WERE THE BEATLES!]

He'd then complain abt having to "just play a part"............?!?!

READ THE F-ING BOOK already insteada just "thinking" what U think based on Beatle history !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Both Lennon & Macca WERE fed up with him by 1966.

Harrison's saving grace as a musician was his somewhat remarkable recoverably as a rock player in 1967~1969, after he left back the pretense of Indian music.
He made some truly phenomenal recordings in that period.
Not that that mattered so much, since he hated pop music---or his place in it--- anyhow.
That sounds cold, I know, but WTF, time grows short.
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#2284087 - 03/19/11 12:35 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: whitefang]
Chad Thorne Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
In later years, it was McCartney who brought HIS wife into the friggin' BAND!
A dated joke, and a little sad now, but very funny at the time: "What do you call a dog with wings? Linda McCartney."

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#2284131 - 03/19/11 03:53 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Chad Thorne]
Gruupi Offline
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I haven't read Geoff Emerick's book, but with so many things written about The Beatles over the years I have a hard time with one person who might have a bias towards George simply because he didn't like him. Did this engineer work with them for many years or maybe he just happened to catch Harrison on a particularly bad period. Maybe you could fill us in some more details without having to read a yet another book on why The Beatles broke up.

I don't mind this thread veered off from what my original point was. That it's funny how people can use words to manipulate people into almost anything. It does show that as much as some Beatles fans may dislike Yoko, she still was a pretty smart individual with a conscience. I guess we never will tire of people trying to blame her for The Beatles ills, but I think she was more of a symptom than the disease.
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#2284256 - 03/20/11 06:59 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Gruupi]
whitefang Offline
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I guess what my problem, d, is I base all I say on this according to statements made by the surviving members themselves found on their "Anthology" tapes. After all, there are several books written about Bob Dylan(I have two), and STILL nobody is sure what's really true. The only thing that's similar in the two books I have is that he was born Robert Allen Zimmerman and lived in North Hibbing, Minnesota. After that, they are vastly different.

There IS a story I read in an interview with Lennon done very shortly before his death that by that time, he and McCartney have pretty much patched things up, and Paul was visiting John at his New York apartment. They were viewing "Saturday Night Live" and saw that Harrison was the musical guest that night. For a minute, they toyed with the idea of popping down to Rockefeller to surprise him. I think it was McCartney who quickly nixed the idea claiming, "It's supposed to be HIS appearance on the show. Us going down there would draw attention away from him and wouldn't be fair. We've been unfair to him enough, haven't we?"

But then, the engineer wasn't there that night, so it probably isn't true...
Whitefang
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#2284442 - 03/20/11 09:08 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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As for Yoko, she is one person I ignore as much as I can no matter who she gets her rap material from...as for George being the whiney guitar player that Paul and John could do without, I must disagree...he was the best guitarist of the three and never got the attention he deserved IMHO...one only has to pick up a beatles song book and run through his chords to get the feel of what the beatles foundation was based upon...P&J wrote the music and came up with the riffs and concepts but it was G that glued it "all together" and I'm sure that by 1966 there were many riffs between them all...

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#2284456 - 03/20/11 10:25 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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I think you meant "rifts", but I get the drift. One rift I read about concerned Ringo, who usually never caused any problems or made any stinks. But he once was beginning to feel taken for granted. "Everybody's making suggestions about what each other should do or how each other should play or whatnot. Nobody bothers ME with any of that." was akin to his complaint. But he was quickly told by Paul and Martin "Well, it's because you always seem to know what to do!"

Max Roach went through the same thing with Charlie Parker and was told basically the same thing.
whitefang
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#2285120 - 03/22/11 06:50 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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There are those that read the books and know the history of the Beatles much better than I...but I grew up with them as I'm 61 years of age and speak from the heart and therefor make mistakes with regard to the written history...

there were big riffs [rifts] written even during their best recording years(ie. Rubber Soul IMHO--but I like earlier stuff too)...Paul thought he could outplay George and get more of a rock edge on Rubber Soul...Paul did a great job and changed their course a little but he was better off on bass and writing on keyboards...he couldn't hold a candle to George on guitar and neither could John as I've listened to them all as singles after the big breakup (just go on Youtube)...George is by far the best on guitar however for riffs and intros on the original recordings, I would have to do more research to see who wrote what (ie. a song like Day Tripper compare it to While My Guitar Gently Weeps)...till then, anyone can say Paul and John were the guitarists and I would try to understand their point of view but then again I'm more of a rhythm player... thu

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#2285350 - 03/23/11 11:43 AM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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The problem here is people working from the myths they learned or developed as fans.
Certainly comments drawn from the heavily revisionist portrait of the band in the Anthology series are intended to strengthen the Beatles's overall myth/image.

To those who don't know, Geoff Emerick was one of the bands 2 main engineers, the direct assistant to George Martin.
First was Norm Smith (1962~1965) & GE (1966~1968).

Emerick was directly responsible for most of what we consider the audio finesse of later Beatle recordings.
While he demonstrates a clear preference for some personality traits of various members, none of them escape critism & none of them fail to get some praise.
If you want to garner some actual behind the scenes knowledge of what wen't on in the studio with that band, his book is the best source.
His book's not abt their collapse but abt how they actually worked in the studio.

Final note on Harrison, he was a skilled player but mostly in the last couple years of the band. Before that much of his playing is, frankly, average.
I suggest that he was the least vital of the 5 musical Beatles & that if there was a single member who all the others thought of as the "glue" it was Ringo.

As far as McCartney's playing, listen to "Taxman" or "Good Morning" & tell me he's not GH's equal.
A typical Lennon solo, with his bluesy edge, may be heard on "You Can't Do That" or several tracks on his 1st post-Beatles album.
Most importantly, even many leads attributed to GH were developed by the 3 main writers in the band: PM, JL & George...Martin.

Back to Yoko Ono, many may not like her music but she's got legit capabilities: classical training on piano & pre-Lennon work with Ornette Coleman & John Cage.
Y'may not like her stuff but that's a matter of taste rather than flaws in her ability...& it may have as much to do with her scapegoat status as anything else.
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#2285372 - 03/23/11 12:17 PM Re: Yoko Ono rap [Re: d]
Floyd Tatum Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
The problem here is people working from the myths they learned or developed as fans.
Certainly comments drawn from the heavily revisionist portrait of the band in the Anthology series are intended to strengthen the Beatles's overall myth/image.

To those who don't know, Geoff Emerick was one of the bands 2 main engineers, the direct assistant to George Martin.
First was Norm Smith (1962~1965) & GE (1966~1968).

You, on the other hand, have read a book by an assistant engineer, and thereby have become the Oracle of Beatle Truth.

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