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Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) #2253427 12/15/10 05:51 PM
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Tusker Offline OP
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Not sure of the changes for the "B section."

What do you play? Thanks,

Jerry

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Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Tusker] #2253430 12/15/10 06:00 PM
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B section? You mean the turnaround? I generally play | F#-b5 B7 | EM7(#11) A7 | C- | which probably aren't right, but most bass players want to play the bad old Real Book changes which DEFINITELY aren't right...


A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: kanker.] #2253437 12/15/10 06:13 PM
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F#m7b5 B7#9b13 E7#9#11 A7#9b13

From a chart that Shorter himself wrote. Or so I'm told, but I'm sure it's probably true. It certainly sounds correct according to recorded versions. I usually just call it this:

F#m7b5 B7alt E7alt A7alt

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Bridog6996] #2253443 12/15/10 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bridog6996
I usually just call it this:

F#m7b5 B7alt E7alt A7alt
Yeah, I suppose I should add that I look at B7, for example, as a dominant voicing that can include any alterations or upper structures that sound appropriate, particularly in a jazz setting.


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Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: kanker.] #2253457 12/15/10 07:19 PM
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Not to hijack the thread (well sorta) - how do you typically voice a #9 b13? 3, b7, #9, b13?

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: MoKen] #2253459 12/15/10 07:23 PM
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I usually play it D7#11, Db7#11. That's the same melodic minor scale as F#m7b5, Fm7b5. My harmonic rhythm is 1/2 of what it would be if I were playing 4 chords instead of 2. That doesn't mean I'm playing it right though. That part tends to go by quickly enough that I'm fine chilling on two chords instead of four both when I solo and when I comp.

Last edited by Bobadohshe; 12/15/10 08:43 PM. Reason: clarification
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: MoKen] #2253461 12/15/10 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: MoKen
Not to hijack the thread (well sorta) - how do you typically voice a #9 b13? 3, b7, #9, b13?
Depends. If it's a LH voicing, I'd voice the A7#9b13

G (below middle C), C, C#, F

If I were to spread it over two hands, I'd probably play it more like G, C#, F, C as a basic voicing, probably throw in some other stuff for good measure though wink


A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: kanker.] #2253488 12/15/10 08:46 PM
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I can hear the circle of fifths in the Miles Smiles recording ... but I so want to hear an A flat9 (6) instead of the A7#9b13. blush

I know, it's like going back to grammar school ... but it's a really nice movement of voices from the E alt.

I like voicing the A7#9b13 as C# and G with an F major triad on top (two handed). Thanks for the one handed tip.

BTW what kinds of voicings are you using on the "C7" and "F7"? I am stacking quartals mostly.

Thanks,

Jerry

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Tusker] #2253499 12/15/10 09:58 PM
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I'll throw out something you won't see in any Aebersold or other fake books.

The Master, Jimmy Rowles showed me this a long time ago. It's more fun for me to blow over then the original.

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||

Try it. cool

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Dave Ferris] #2253531 12/16/10 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'll throw out something you won't see in any Aebersold or other fake books.

The Master, Jimmy Rowles showed me this a long time ago. It's more fun for me to blow over then the original.

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||

Try it. cool


Cool!


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Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Bobadohshe] #2253561 12/16/10 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'll throw out something you won't see in any Aebersold or other fake books.

The Master, Jimmy Rowles showed me this a long time ago. It's more fun for me to blow over then the original.

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||

Try it. cool


Cool!


I am speechless. That's beautiful. Thank you.

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Tusker] #2255017 12/21/10 10:36 PM
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Yep, the old Real Book is so wrong!

It's always fun to throw a new spin on this one though.

As a bassist, if I'm feeling the energy from the others, I go into double-time now and then. It keeps things interesting and often proves more inspiring for the soloists.


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Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Mark Schmieder] #2255384 12/22/10 11:00 PM
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Thats a great tune to mess with..why bother w/the F#..you can start a number of places..go down chrom, 2/5 it..when thats called, I will sometimes ask the bass player what he's going to do there, as many will just do what they do..but its cool to mess with it...different variations also open up different soloing avenues..cool.

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Dave Ferris] #2255397 12/23/10 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'll throw out something you won't see in any Aebersold or other fake books.

The Master, Jimmy Rowles showed me this a long time ago. It's more fun for me to blow over then the original.

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||


Try it. cool

That E natural just makes the voicing ring! Sweet!! Into the bag it goes! thu


Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: Dave Ferris] #2255400 12/23/10 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||

Try it. cool


Damn. That is some honey suckle chocolate dripping kisses, Dave.


"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: timwat] #2255403 12/23/10 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: timwat
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||

Try it. cool


Damn. That is some honey suckle chocolate dripping kisses, Dave.
The other thing is that it's a 'more sensible' turnaround, given that a | iv | bVII7 | I or i turnaround is common, and very easy for the ear to digest. Adding the upper neighbor #vi | VII7 is icing.


A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: kanker.] #2255415 12/23/10 01:32 AM
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Just make your checks payable to Dave Ferris and send to.... laugh

You know I felt real lucky to be able to go over to Jimmy's house, hang and just pick his brain. It wasn't really a formal lesson, I'd start playing some tunes I was working on and he'd ALWAYS come up with something different, hip yet ever so subtle. I'd be there for over an hour, sometimes two. I'd ask him what he wanted and he'd say, "hell, I don't know, $25 or something". Unbelievable!

Here's a guy who played with everyone from Benny Goodman, Billie Holiday, Ella, Zoot Sims, Benny Carter, Ben Webster and modern guys like Buster Williams, Billy Hart and many other younger guys in LA like Larry Koonse, Eric Von Essen.

He was coming from the tradition but was very open to the "modern " stuff. He LOVED Wayne's tunes as well as some of Miles's things. Similar to someone like Hank Jones.

From todays' perspective he had "no chops" to speak of but his "street" harmonic vocabulary and how it applied to real world tunes and situations were something that can't be learned out of a book or at any school. He was very musical and had a style that was immediately identifiable. Kind of a cross between Teddy Wilson, Monk with some Bud Powell in there--and of course his own thing.

He was a very deep cat and is missed by all Jazz lovers everywhere.

Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: kanker.] #2255438 12/23/10 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: kanker.
Originally Posted By: timwat
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||

Try it. cool


Damn. That is some honey suckle chocolate dripping kisses, Dave.
The other thing is that it's a 'more sensible' turnaround, given that a | iv | bVII7 | I or i turnaround is common, and very easy for the ear to digest. Adding the upper neighbor #iv | VII7 is icing.

There. Fixed! wink
Excellent analysis, Kevin. I've found it sounds very cool if you voice the m11 chords as four-note fourth stacks (e.g. F#-B-E-A) too.

Thanks for sharing the Master's ideas with us, Dave. You are lucky to have known him,

Last edited by MonksDream; 12/23/10 04:02 AM. Reason: Hadn't read Dave's post

Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker
Re: Advice for FootPrints (Wayne Shorter) [Re: MonksDream] #2255446 12/23/10 05:16 AM
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Another thing that Rowles showed me on "Four". Later on I heard Hank Jones do this so I think it was a NY thang.

You can do this on both "A" sections but I always do it on the second to give it more of a surprise. On the second "A" section starting on bar 11 (of the section) for the blowing and melody the standard changes are:

| Fm7 | Bb7 | Gm7 F#m7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Eb Maj7 | Fm7 Bb7 ||

alternate blowing:

| Fm7 Fm/Eb | Dm7b5 G7b9 | Cm7 F7b5 (or Gb7b5) | Fm7 Bb7 | E Maj 7b5 | Eb Maj 7 Bb7 || (The E Maj 7 b5 is a pretty stock sub that I just threw in for grins)

Obviously the above doesn't work with the melody so it's:

|Fm7 Fm/Eb | Dm7b5 G7 b9 | Gm7 F#m7 | Fm7 Bb7 | etc | etc ||

It's a very common movement you see on tunes like Green Dolphin or Lady is a Tramp. It blew me away the first time he showed it to me on that tune, in that context. Like I said, it's the subtle things........


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