Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Page 5 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#2232225 - 09/21/10 11:36 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 4362
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Mark-

Try and get that ZXA 8" off the floor. With the CP-5 even my new higher end RCF TT08As (8") don't sound as good on the floor, in the wedge position, as they do mounted on an Ultimate Support speaker pole. They sound "boxier" on the floor for sure. If you don't want the "pole look" in your house, you might try some straight studio monitor stands. I sometimes put my RCFs on these and they're perfect.
http://www.kkaudio.com/stands.html

I think Kirk, the owner of KK Audio, has a line he sells through GC or you can order direct. Nice guy, I've known him for 30 years. His stuff isn't the most high end you can buy but it's very functional, looks good and will probably last you the rest of your life.

But definitely get those speakers off the floor , I'll bet they'll sound better.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5, RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers


Top
KC Island
#2232235 - 09/22/10 02:38 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I had thought about engaging the subwoofer switch, but then forgot to try that. Ironically, in re-reading the full manual just now, I see that they recommend the same, when placed on the floor (whether upright or in the wedge position) -- although it takes a couple of readings to realize this is what they are saying.

At home, I have plenty of options to get this off the floor. It's more in gig situations where I would be a bit concerned, but it could sit atop the bass speaker in those situations -- although I like the idea of the 45 degree wedge orientation facing up from the floor. Atop a riser, that will probably end up working out OK.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2232374 - 09/22/10 02:57 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
OK, I've fixed the honky-ness in the piano, by engaging the subwoofer switch as recommended in the manual.

For acoustic piano, I am getting the most natural and even response by sitting the monitor wedge-style (vs. upright) atop an Auralex Gramma isolation platform, engaging the "use subwoofer" switch, and setting the trim to 0 dB as recommended (and thus using lower output levels on the keyboards themselves than I normally do). This cuts frequencies below 100 Hz, and thus also makes the loudspeaker more efficient in the low mids.

I am not able to take the time right now to unscrew the faceplate and switch the coverage angle for the wedge position, but even so, it sounds better this way than upright atop the isolation platform.

This was just a quick test as I am working from home today -- I didn't take the time to run through a bunch of sounds; just acoustic piano, for a few minutes in different styles. I'm satisfied that this fixes the problem with honky-ness.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (09/22/10 03:00 PM)
Edit Reason: typos
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2232449 - 09/23/10 12:50 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
My bandleader is sold on switching to an E/V ZXA1, after a long jazz rehearsal tonight where every sound on his Korg Triton and Nord Electro 2 sang out with extra clarity and detail compared to his Roland KC500 (now up for sale) and Peavey combo amps (also now up for sale).

Even cheesy brass patches sounded better, and were rounded vs. brash. Still cheesy, but bearable and not piercing as on the combo amps. The only mild challenge with the E/V is to avoid a boxy sound for acoustic piano and a few other patches, which is really just up to placement and the low cut filter.

We had an arch-top guitarist and flutist, alongside me on bass guitar, keys, and drums. The E/V allowed us all to be better balanced than ever, with everyone hearing each other more than at previous rehearsals. Only the keys went through the E/V.

As in my own home, we found it best to engage the 100 Hz cut. This improved all of the patches, including acoustic piano and organ. A pole-mount configuration might benefit from the full-range setting.

The big test will come when next we go to The Bistro in Hayward CA, where we usually have to turn any bass EQ all the way off due to the extreme boom and echo in that place (one of the two or three most acoustically challenging places I have ever played, but a great club for its staff and the well-established old-timer jazz and blues musicians who frequent the place).


Edited by Mark Schmieder (09/23/10 12:52 AM)
Edit Reason: typo
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2232458 - 09/23/10 04:18 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
DanS Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 6452
Loc: Montréal
Mark, are you running your keys stereo into the ZX?
I tried this last week at rehearsal and it was acceptable.
I found the low end of my piano sounds to be boomy, so I will probably engage the sub out setting on my K10 as well.
I'm thinking of elevating the speaker a la Gramma too (probably make something with some plywood and leftover studio foam)), as I'm liking the Recoils under my monitors in the studio quite a bit.
_________________________
What we record in life, echoes in eternity.

S70XS, Privia PX-5S, XK3c, PolyEvolver, PolyEvolver Rack, Voyager Performer, Univox Mini-Korg, LM-8ST, K10.

http://www.facebook.com/ElegantMessBand?ref=ts

Top
#2232484 - 09/23/10 06:23 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: DanS]
colourisred Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Germany


on my search for an easy to cary and good sounding amplification (especially for acoustic piano from Nord Stage), I had the opportunity to testdrive nearly all contenders mentioned in this thread, each for several days.
At the end I bought two EV ZxA1. I choosed the version with 100 degree horn because when comparing the two possible "horntypes" I had the impression that the 100 degree version sounded a bit "warmer", "more natural", "less like horn".

When playing with band (for me mono is the way to go) at rehearsals and small venues one single ZxA1 is sufficient and provides a lot of fun.
I use it always with 100 Hz cut engaged even when playing in stereo at home. My only complaint is a slight hiss even when volumeknob is turned to zero.

Top
#2232488 - 09/23/10 06:54 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: colourisred]
AnotherScott Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7076
Originally Posted By: colourisred
I choosed the version with 100 degree horn because when comparing the two possible "horntypes" I had the impression that the 100 degree version sounded a bit "warmer", "more natural", "less like horn".

That makes sense. I would expect the wider and more even dispersion to sound more open and natural, less inclined to any possible harshness, and more consistent over a larger area. The more controlled 90 x 50 dispersion could be advantageous, though, for things like on stage vocal monitoring, where you're worrying about feedback, obviously not an issue for use as keyboard amplification. Narrow dispersion is also useful in stage monitors where you have a bunch of them where stationery players/singers want to more easily hear primarily their own mix.

Top
#2232659 - 09/23/10 06:56 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: AnotherScott]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I experienced the hiss at first, but it went away once I went to balanced cables. Have you tried that yet?

I'm using the mono out from my keyboards so far.

They didn't have the 100 degree horn so I didn't get to A/B. Looking at the frequency chart, it appears a bit more biased, with an earlier rolloff as well, but both are fairly flat in the mid-range so probably sound similar in most contexts.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2232942 - 09/25/10 08:07 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
BlackandWhite Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 331
Loc: NorCal, USA
Well, my local supplier dissuaded me from even trying the ZXA1, saying that, as a K10 owner, I wouldn't be happy with the EV's lack of headroom. That was easy!
_________________________
"I never knew that music like that was possible." - Mozart ( Amadeus movie)

Top
#2232972 - 09/25/10 12:39 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: BlackandWhite]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
????????

This thing is MONSTROUSLY loud, even at low settings!

I suppose for P/A use in a club, the K-10 and K-12, being larger speakers, will project more. But they all have relatively the same power delivery for averages (vs. peaks).

So maybe he's talking about the 200 watt difference in peak rating, when he's talking about headroom? Slightly less room for transients on the E/V?

Whatever. It just seems strange to take a supplier's word, when they have their own stuff to push.

My store rep recommends the E/V over the QSC for most people using it as personal keyboard monitoring, even though it's cheaper. How often do you see that happen in retail?

Of course, this is the battle of the two best brands at the moment, so in some senses it is splitting hairs, vs. comparing to Mackie et al.

And certainly, it seems silly to switch from one to the other if you're not starting from scratch. If you're not happy with what you have, you can always wait for the next generation and re-evaluate. This is a competitive field, and new models arrive every couple of years, if not more frequently.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (09/25/10 12:42 PM)
Edit Reason: discretion
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2232986 - 09/25/10 03:31 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
As this could affect many people's decisions re: E/V vs. QSC, I must report my findings this afternoon that the mic input and the line input do not sound the same.

So, even though the levels are easily matched at zero, there is still some colour added by the mic input even with zero gain, and less bottom end.

This became clearer to me while setting up some of my custom patches on my new XK-3c, as I had the XK-1 plugged into the mic channel of the E/V. When I swapped the XK-3c back and forth, it was clear that the main channel has more bottom end.

As the block diagram shows the mic pre-amp in series, and as the expectation is that that channel will be dedicated to vocals, I'm guessing it wasn't designed to be flat, since vocals aren't full frequency range. Maybe it even has a low cut filter.

For me, it's not such an issue, as I'm only gigging on bass guitar and upright bass at the moment, and as I will be buying a Radial JDI Duplex later this week, which will give me all the control that I need for merging two keyboards into a single balanced channel going into the E/V.

Anyway, the point is that anyone needing more than two mono keyboard channels or even a mono-sum of stereo keyboard outputs, will definitely need a table-top or line mixer in front of this speaker, for best results and the most control.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (09/25/10 03:34 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2233003 - 09/25/10 05:05 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
There was an older thread that I came across a few days ago, that mentioned that E/V has a powered 12" coming out by end of hyear, but apparently no 10" on the horizon. Currently, they just have the 8" and 15".

Remember in my comparisons, I only put the two brands' 8" models up against each other. I think it will be interesting to see how the 12" shootout goes, once both E/V and QSC have powered models to compare.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2233043 - 09/26/10 12:01 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Michelle (ggurl) Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 2610
Loc: near San Francisco
Thanks for all of your posts, Mark. You are definitely informing me about issues regarding comparison I would not have thought of.

Question: I know you said it's not much of an issue now, but are you considering, in the least bit, taking back the EV speaker and getting a QSC in light of input situation? In other words, do you still think the sound of the EV is so much better than the QSC that you'd rather buy a DI to be able to run two keyboards thru to it (without resorting to using the mic line) rather than return the EV and buy the QSC instead?

This assuming you could take back the EV if you wanted to ...

Thanks again for your input! (no pun intended)
_________________________
Original Latin Jazz
CD Baby

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

Top
#2233065 - 09/26/10 04:18 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
The passive DI is going to be purchased regardless, as keyboards should go through a passive DI on stage and in the studio.

I've been getting line noise on my True 8 Precision's two combined mic/line jacks, because the DI part of it is active and unbalanced. When I really thought that through, I realized that I needed to finally get the Radial JDI Duplex unit.

At gigs, I have occasionally (but rarely) had grounding issues with keys, or have worked with keyboardists who have had such problems. Since the JDI is in the picture anyway, I may as well kill two birds with one stone (the throughput from the E/V should be usable as a balanced feed to FOH).

Actually, the two inputs on the E/V are functional for line inputs, it's just that they don't sound the same. At a gig, I would rarely care, and probably wouldn't be using two keyboards anyway as the Kurzweil PC3x covers almost everything.

Everyone's needs are different, which is why I mention these details. Some people need EQ anyway, so would insert a small table-top mixer before the P/A loudspeaker.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2233119 - 09/26/10 12:10 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Michelle (ggurl) Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 2610
Loc: near San Francisco
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The passive DI is going to be purchased regardless, as keyboards should go through a passive DI on stage and in the studio.


OK, thanks, Mark. I hate to sound like a idiot, but I need clarification: do you mean you will ALWAYS run keyboards thru the DI before they go into the speaker at all times? Of course I know about taking amp output and running it thru a DI before it hits a house PA (some amps, including mine, have a DI out onboard so I've not used extra hardware for that in quite a few years), but you mean to use the DI as one would use a mixer, is that correct?

I was planning on just plugging the keyboard directly into the speaker input, no mixer, no DI. Is that a bad thing??
_________________________
Original Latin Jazz
CD Baby

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

Top
#2233129 - 09/26/10 01:03 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Michelle,

Looking at the block diagram again from the downloaded Radial manuals, you merge signals by giving up the throughput connector on one channel of Radial DI.

So, yes, the signal would have to be pre-merged using the Radial JDI Duplex and the on-board volume controls of the respective keyboards.

From the E/V user manual's block diagram, the Master Out of E/V ZXA1 is after the mic pre-amp but before the overall master power amp stage of the loudspeaker. It is thus a line level balanced output, adequate for DI purposes going to FOH at a club.

Actually, there is some ambiguity there, but the spec says Line Out, so presumably it is 600 ohms vs. 150 ohms. Some clubs may not like this, if connecting to a snake and assuming everything needs mic gain. Maybe someone else can chime in on whether this tends to be an issue or not.

Anyway, with a Radial JDI Duplex unit, you could have up to four keyboards running in mono, with two pairs of summed outputs on the two JDI channels, if you don't mind suffering the slight degradation in audio quality (even at 0 dB gain) going through the mic-only input of the E/V for one of the summed pairs.

In that case, you would use XLR-to-XLR cables for both connections.

If you skip the XLR-only channel, so as to completely bypass the mic pre-amp in the ZXA1, you can still do two mono keyboard channels going through the JDI Duplex as a much superior summer than a typical ABY box or even line mixer (or tabletop mixer). Being passive devices, these are very transparent -- even moreso than an Allen & Heath tabletop mixer or Ashly line mixer.

Please note that Radial has some inconsistencies in their block diagrams; this seems to be due to changes between mk I, mk II, mk III, mk IV, and mk V. But the routing described above seems consistent between all of the PDF's that I found at their site.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (09/26/10 01:10 PM)
Edit Reason: typos
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2238229 - 10/17/10 07:50 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
AnotherScott Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 7076
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
They didn't have the 100 degree horn so I didn't get to A/B. Looking at the frequency chart, it appears a bit more biased, with an earlier rolloff as well, but both are fairly flat in the mid-range so probably sound similar in most contexts.


Can you explain what you mean by biased? And earlier rolloff in what respect? I'm assuming HF?

I actually just had the opportunity to briefly A/B the 90 and the 100. I would agree with your supposition that they should sound pretty much the same in most contexts, in that they are certainly sonically very similar to each other. If you are directly on-axis, the 90 has more "air" up top. At just slightly off-axis, they sound pretty much indistinguishable. As you get a little more off-axis (in its 40 degree orientation), the highs noticeably drop off on the 90. Probably just what you'd expect. :-)

For a stage monitor, if you want the best sound for yourself while not prompting others on stage to tell you to turn down, you're probably best off with the 90, as long as you're willing to take some care in positioning. If you often don't have the flexibility to necessarily be able to place something in the optimum position (whether because of limited stage space, limited setup time, or just the way your gear is set up) and want it to sound its best (and pretty much the same) almost regardless of where you place it (and whether you need to place it horizontally or vertically), the 100 would be advantageous. (Yes, you can change the 90 to optimize it for horizontal or vertical dispersion, but that's probably not what you want to take the time to do after you get to a gig and see the stage setup.) But these are fine points, and I imagine most people would be perfectly happy with whichever one they got.

Top
#2238286 - 10/17/10 04:52 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: AnotherScott]
BlackandWhite Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 331
Loc: NorCal, USA
Hopefully not going too far off-topic, I just bought a stand for my K10, which I use as my monitor for 2 keys, summed to the single xlr out to FOH. I had been setting it horizontally on a crate, stool, or whatever. Mounted vertically, it seemed to deliver a much clearer sound at high volumes. Could simply be a figment; anyone else done this comparison?
_________________________
"I never knew that music like that was possible." - Mozart ( Amadeus movie)

Top
#2245750 - 11/15/10 03:54 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 6629
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Just wanted to say that the E/V ZXA1 was called into service this weekend for a female jazz/soul vocalist using a Sennheiser Evolution dynamic mic, and I was extremely impressed with the S/N ratio, smoothness, and naturalness, as well as the full dynamic range being preserved.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, Dingwall ABI, Yamaha BB1025X, 50th T-Bass, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass
Yamaha WX5, Hammond 44 Melodion & XK1c, Moog Voyager, DSI Prophet12 & Evolver

Top
#2250517 - 12/04/10 01:46 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Root]
ybakos Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 2
Loc: Denver, CO
After hearing so many positive comments about the QSC K8 from keyboard players, I finally had to see what big deal was. Could it really sound better than my beloved Traynor K4?

I just AB'd the QSC K8 and the Traynor K4 -- wow. In terms of comparable sound quality, I am shocked. The K8 is so much more musical than the K4. I've never witnessed such a drastic difference between two amps before.

If you doubt whether or not the K8 can provide enough bass, fear not. In my opinion, unless you're playing some super-low grooves (eg, deep deep dub) you'll have more than enough bass.

I can't wait to carry my new friend to next week's gig (the QSC K8 is half the weight of the Traynor K4).

Top
#2250541 - 12/04/10 03:32 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: ybakos]
Michelle (ggurl) Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 2610
Loc: near San Francisco
Awesome,Ybakos, thanks for the feedback. I love the idea of going with the smaller K8 if possible ... especially given that Mark did prefer the sound of the K8 over the K10. I was/am considering a K10 but I did get a chance to try one at a local store, running various keyboards through it (not CDs, but instruments, which seems a better representation of what I'm going to be using it for). It was pole-mounted, everything. I was surprised that it sounded slightly "boxy" to me. I guess from the raves I was expecting none of that at all, which is perhaps naive on my part. It didn't inspire any impulse whipping out of the credit card ... not to say it sounded bad, it didn't! I think I was just expecting it to sound more transparent than it did. Still better than any amp I've heard.

I've found a dealer who carries both the K8 and K10 ... I will be trying those both. The EV sounds great too, need to find one to check out.


Edited by Geekgurl (12/04/10 03:39 PM)
_________________________
Original Latin Jazz
CD Baby

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

Top
#2250546 - 12/04/10 04:12 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
Michelle (ggurl) Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 2610
Loc: near San Francisco
For those of you who have the EV cab or K8, I have a question: how does the bass resonse hold up over distance? I just searched and read a comment on another forum (I think it was ProSoundWeb or HC) that the signal sounds great up close, ie, for monitoring, but that the bass response really falls away with distance. "Distance" wasn't quantified, but I am considering using these not only to hear myself, but to project sound in small-ish venues. I don't want it to sound bad out in the house.

That's one odd thing about the amps I have now ... Motion Sound KT-80s. It is very easy for those to sound harsh where I'm sitting but people (including other musicians) mention how clear they sound and how nice the keys sit with the other instruments (drums, bass out of a separate bass amp, sometimes vox) all the time. I keep expecting someone to tell me my sound is harsh because that's often how it sounds to me at close range. I don't want to make a decision based only on how it sounds to me if the characteristics of a smaller speaker mean the house won't have a good listening experience. Anyone have thoughts on this?


Edited by Geekgurl (12/05/10 09:51 AM)
Edit Reason: punctuation
_________________________
Original Latin Jazz
CD Baby

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

Top
#2250596 - 12/05/10 03:44 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
Tusker Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 5993
Loc: Saddle Ridge
I haven't heard any significant drop in bass over distance on my K12. Never had to engage the bass boost switch, even when kicking bass in small venues.

The QSC's provide very little coloration. It's a clean clear sound with no added harshness OR roundness. To me, some Motion Sound and Barbetta products are designed to add pleasing coloration and roundness. I would also contrast the K series with the Eon G2's and SRM450's I have played through which aren't "round" but can add harshness to certain frequencies.

This means that with the K series, the keyboards need to provide a rounded sound (perhaps through eq, filters or a preamp) when you want that "warm, round" tone. They are fairly transparent speakers.
_________________________
"Musical ideas are prisoners, more than one might believe, of musical devices." Pierre Schaeffer

Top
#2250606 - 12/05/10 06:14 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Tusker]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 2446
Loc: DE
Last night we played a holiday party, and our guitar player did an hour of jazz dinner music with backing tracks he had recorded in Sonar and rendered down to mp3. We hooked his laptop and guitar directly into my K10, guitar in one input, laptop in the other. It sounded amazing, and the one thing I noticed that I never realized, that there is little to no drop off in volume as you move away from the speaker. 30' away, the volume was the same as 10' away. I didn't notice any difference in frequency response either. This was at a relatively low volume, low enough so people could talk over it, but still loud enough that you knew he was there.
_________________________
Live: Roland FA-08, Hammond SK1-73, Moog LP
Toys: Yamaha S70XS, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6
www.bksband.com

Top
#2250858 - 12/06/10 07:33 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
GovernorSilver Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 4342
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: Geekgurl
For those of you who have the EV cab or K8, I have a question: how does the bass resonse hold up over distance?


Good question. I have an EV ZXA1. I've played 4 shows with it now, and 3 of those shows, I've had a direct feed from my mixer to the FOH PA as well as to the ZXA1.

My other EV cab, the SXA-360, was powerful enough for a wedding gig. It was used by my friend for DJ-ing.
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/governorsilver

Top
#2250896 - 12/06/10 09:51 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: GovernorSilver]
Mr. Nightime Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 3581
Loc: Melbourne, FL
This weekend I played my first gig with my K-10, and was absolutely floored. 2 guitars, bass, drums, and keys. I had to turn down a bit. Perfectly clear, clean, beautiful sound. I placed it on an amp stand vertically, leaned back a bit.

All of my sounds were enhanced by the K-10. My XB-2 never sounded any better than it did them. Playing my new Yamaha MM8 through the K-10 completely obliterated any potential buyer's remorse.

With that amp, the only person that can possibly touch my sound is the guy that does a jazz gig with a B3 and twin Leslies that have had the amps removed, and are powered by QSC power amps. And my non-Hammond sounds are better than his (Casio driving a Triton Rack).
_________________________
"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.
So God helped him and created woman.

Now everybody's got the blues."

Willie Dixon





Top
#2250997 - 12/06/10 02:35 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Mr. Nightime]
Michelle (ggurl) Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 2610
Loc: near San Francisco
Gov'nor (or anyone else w/ a K8 or EV ZXA1), if you get a chance to test the projection of bass frequencies over a distance of say 40 feet from source, I'd love to know your findings! Really interested in naming a lightweight monitoring solution on my Christmas list this year ... smile
_________________________
Original Latin Jazz
CD Baby

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

Top
#2251125 - 12/07/10 06:19 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
Theo Verelst Online   sleepy
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2119
"projection of bass frequencies over a distance of say 40 feet from source"

Cool!
And in the open field or damped room, please, or we'll the whole time hear only one repeated drone reflex resonance the whole time...

Top
#2251160 - 12/07/10 07:36 AM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Michelle (ggurl)]
GovernorSilver Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 4342
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: Geekgurl
Gov'nor (or anyone else w/ a K8 or EV ZXA1), if you get a chance to test the projection of bass frequencies over a distance of say 40 feet from source, I'd love to know your findings! Really interested in naming a lightweight monitoring solution on my Christmas list this year ... smile


You might have to wait a while for a report from me. Our band rehearsal space is nowhere near as long as 40 feet in any particular dimension.

You might be better off renting a K8 or ZXA1 for one of your gigs (if that's even possible).
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/governorsilver

Top
#2251307 - 12/07/10 01:45 PM Re: A/Bing the new QSC K10 with the old Traynor K4 [Re: Theo Verelst]
Michelle (ggurl) Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 2610
Loc: near San Francisco
Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
And in the open field or damped room, please, or we'll the whole time hear only one repeated drone reflex resonance the whole time...


Well, unfortunately that aspect has nothing to do with rooms I play, which have some live (acoustically) characteristics and hence some bounceback to them.

Gov, you're right, I might have to opt for trying to rent, though I don't know of any rental places near me yet that have either of these. Or make the trip out of my immediate area to a store that carries all these models so that I can return and replace if my first choice isn't what I'd hoped.

And 40 feet is really the maximum length in terms of places I play that I'd need to be concerned with ... we usually play small places that don't need house sound. I'm thinking anything bigger than that would need house sound. One place we play, there's a bar area but the music also is supposed to project to an eating area and it's fairly live room with high ceilings ... I'm guessing it's 40 feet distance or so that we're blanketing with sound but I could be wrong. I don't know, admittedly I'm not the best estimator of spatial area outside of rooms in homes (because I saw so damn many of them while looking to buy that I became a human tape measure) ...


Edited by Geekgurl (12/07/10 01:50 PM)
Edit Reason: felt like rambling some more
_________________________
Original Latin Jazz
CD Baby

"I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith

Top
Page 5 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner