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#2229619 - 09/13/10 03:18 PM CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10
marcus r Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Goteborg, Sweden
So, here's one of my almost yearly postings...
Sorry for few contributions, but love you guys' discussions.



Kawai has been due for an update of their stage line of digitals. Here they are:

www.kawai.co.jp


MP10 and MP6 should apparently arrive late this fall.

MP10 highlights:
- New RM3 Grand action (wood + "Ivory Touch")
- 88 key sampling
- UPHI Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging (only Kawai knows...)

With 32 kg it would actually match to replace my increasingly worn P-150. Would love to try that action. No sales rep in Sweden... Copenhagen/Denmark is not that far though.

Regards,
Marcus
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#2229621 - 09/13/10 03:23 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: marcus r]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Isn't competition great?

Without it, we'd be stuck with crap from ALL of the manufacturers.

The Kawais may, as usually, be hard to come by in stores.

I think the last time I saw one was in Sam Ash during a visit to see my friend in the L.A. area.

Those of us without access to Kawai dealers anxiously await the first reports on the keybed action and piano/e-piano sounds in the new Kawai range.

Any pricing info yet?
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#2229622 - 09/13/10 03:31 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
marcus r Offline
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Registered: 09/18/06
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Loc: Goteborg, Sweden
According to information on Kawai forum (Germany), a little bit higher than the current MP8 mkII.

(I think there were some figures in Yen...)
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#2229624 - 09/13/10 03:33 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: marcus r]
marcus r Offline
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Actually, 273.000 (Yen)
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#2229630 - 09/13/10 03:55 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: marcus r]
Joe Muscara Offline
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And hey, they shaved 7 lbs from the MP8II. wink

(No, I get it, there's no way they could get the weight of a keyboard that uses solid wooden keys much lower. I'm just teasing in view of these super lightweight boards from some other manufacturers. However, the MP6 is around 8 lbs lighter than the Roland RDs. I wonder how that Kawai "Responsive Hammer Action" feels.)

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#2229663 - 09/13/10 07:08 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Joe Muscara]
kanker. Offline
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Looking forward to checking the MP10 out, see if the pianos are actually usable.
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#2229671 - 09/13/10 07:21 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: kanker.]
Bobadohshe Online   content
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Registered: 12/25/06
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Awesome. It'd better be pretty happening to compete with the CP-5. I'll check it out at NAMM most likely.

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#2229703 - 09/13/10 10:16 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Bobadohshe]
Adan Offline
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Posts: 1997
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Based on those very dark pics, looks like they've eliminated the raised top on the bigger MP, which actually could be quite useful for stacking another keyboard. In general, I've been impressed with how Kawai keeps improving a great product, though in my book, 70 lbs is still over the line in the "home furniture" category. The MP5 didn't impress me greatly, though it's a decent value for the price.

There's a kawai dealer in Campbell, CA, just north of San Jose, that carries the complete line. Went there once. Worst music store experience of my life. I would rather be spend 4 hours locked in a room with a used car salesmen than talk to those people ever again.
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#2229710 - 09/13/10 11:53 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Adan]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Thanks for warning us. :-) I'll save my gas money.
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#2229769 - 09/14/10 07:57 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Tobbe Offline
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I feel a bit of GAS coming on... especially the MP6 sounds interesting to me. At a price that, according to www.kawai.co.jp, equals €1600 or $2100 this is seems like a really nice affordable stage piano. I have glanced at the MP5 now and then - a nice piano with full fledged 4-zone midi control. Now with the additions of modern features like "drum machine", mp3 playback, speaker sim for EP's and tonewheel organ sim this looks sweet!

I'm a bit surprised though - while the MP6 looks like an updated MP5 they've seem to have changed the MP10 altogether - and it seems like it has lost the 4-zone control! While I'm not 100% sure of this, it seems so when reading the product sheet - of course we won't know for sure until the manual is available.

Nevertheless - these two seems like serious contenders to the CP5/CP50 and RD700nx/RD300gx.
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#2229773 - 09/14/10 08:13 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: marcus r]
D-Bon Offline
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I like how the MP10 has the Kawai logo right above the keys, as on an acoustic. That's a classy touch. I also like how the soundset is limited, similar to the CP-1. As I commented in the SP4-7 thread, a "stage piano" should focus on pianos and omit the useless drum, vocal, and brass sounds that are better off in workstations.

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#2229792 - 09/14/10 09:15 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: D-Bon]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: D-Bon
I like how the MP10 has the Kawai logo right above the keys, as on an acoustic. That's a classy touch.
I didn't notice that at first - that's very cool!

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#2229805 - 09/14/10 09:41 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Joe Muscara]
ProfD Offline
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Those Kawai stage pianos look nice. Those extra features are tailor-made for a lounge lizard, er, solo pianist.

Seventy (70) lbs is nothing compared to carrying the weight and stress of a full band. wink cool
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#2235148 - 10/04/10 05:56 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: ProfD]
Tobbe Offline
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Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 1664
Loc: Örebro, Sweden
The MP6 info, including user manual, is officially released:

clonk!

I must say - I feel quite a bit of GAS coming on! smile With the addition of drum patterns, USB audio playback (and recording) and presumably better vintage keys, including tonewheel and tube speaker sim, this could be a winner (in it's pricerange, of course).


Then, according to a Kawai rep @ the piano forum the MP10 will be officially announced on october 25th. Until then, here's the pdf brochure from Kawai Japan.

Edit/update: somehow I had gotten the wrong URL to the brochure above... my mistake! I had copied the link to the japanese DP catalog instead... but now it should be alright!


Edited by mr_T (10/04/10 04:37 PM)
Edit Reason: wrong pdf link...
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#2235158 - 10/04/10 06:59 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Tobbe]
Tuggy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/09
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I'm still waiting for the audio demos, especially for electric pianos, if better than my PC1SE, this is a definite GAS raiser for me.

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#2235167 - 10/04/10 07:29 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Tuggy]
zephonic Offline
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I recently drove by Koln to check out the MP-5 and ES-6. Nice stuff but I was a little underwhelmed, though.

I really wanted to like the MP-5 as it seems like a great controller, but I can't say it blew me away. Neither in touch, nor sound.

Hope the new MP's can take it to the CP's, but they're gonna have to be a LOT better than the outgoing models to succeed.

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#2235174 - 10/04/10 07:51 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: zephonic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
I really wanted to like the MP-5 as it seems like a great controller, but I can't say it blew me away. Neither in touch, nor sound.

Yeah, on paper, the MP-5 looked great... strong feature set and design... like you said, a great controller. The MP-6 looks to be very much the same thing except with improved action and improved sounds, so it looks like they kept the strengths and addressed the weaknesses. I'd be excited about trying it if it didn't weigh close to 50 lb. But I do recognize that weight is typically part of the price you pay for more piano-like actions.

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#2235181 - 10/04/10 08:10 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: AnotherScott]
Toano88 Offline
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I have a friend that has an MP-8, wooden keys, 90lbs. But it plays wonderfully. You have to like the sound of Kawai acoustic pianos, that's what their sampling. My friend only plays piano, for that its got a rather full sound. If your used to very bright pianos you won't like the Kawai. But I have gotten used to hearing him play through it and would miss it if he played anything different. I like the AC piano sound on them.
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#2235230 - 10/04/10 10:46 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Toano88]
CEB Offline
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I play Kawai stage pianos. IMO the piano soundsets work better when playing solo rather than when playing in a band setting. I find them functional for both uses.

But I REALLY LIKE the action.

I need to contact Kawai and see about getting an endorsement deal it seems like I'm their biggest fanboy.

Something I hope Kawai addresses this new series is to do something different with the finish. The skin on the finish of the MP5 and MP-8 are VERY prone to dings and scratches and smudges etc.... The cosmetics do not hold up well to road usuage. If the Kawai had a flat top you wouldn't want to place another keyboard on top of it unless you had no problems with the the paint coming off where ever the 2 keyboards touched.


Edited by CEB (10/05/10 11:08 AM)
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#2235305 - 10/04/10 03:01 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: CEB]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I know piano feel is highly subjective, but I personally find the Yamaha CP-5 escapement far faster and the keybed more responsive than the Kawai MP-series (any model). If this MP-10 has a brand new keybed action, I will definitely want to try it out -- meaning, visiting Sam Ash on my next L.A. visit (no one carries Kawai here -- though maybe Bananas does from time to time).

Interesting comments about solo playing vs. ensemble playing. Didn't we just hear the same comments about the Yamaha CP-5? Are Digital Pianos in general voiced more for home solo playing than gig playing with a band?
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#2235309 - 10/04/10 03:10 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: zephonic]
kanker. Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Hope the new MP's can take it to the CP's, but they're gonna have to be a LOT better than the outgoing models to succeed.

They're going to have to be a HELL of a lot better IMO. The Kawai digital piano sound just ain't quite there by a bit of a stretch. I hope they've raised their game considerably, if anything just so they continue to put out wood action keyboards wink
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#2235315 - 10/04/10 03:36 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: Mark Schmieder]
CEB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
....
Interesting comments about solo playing vs. ensemble playing. Didn't we just hear the same comments about the Yamaha CP-5? Are Digital Pianos in general voiced more for home solo playing than gig playing with a band?

That could be, I don't know.

I played Roland stage pianos for quite a while. I was having issues with bad wrist pain and the Kawai seemed to fix it. I really like the action on the Kawai but it is heavy!

I think the RD soundsets and and the Yamaha Motif sounds for that matter work better for band work IMO. The Kawai pianos are much darker and the Kawai bright piano patches are just brutal. But I like the way the Kawai sounds when playing classical and jazz at home. I especially like the way it sounds when playing pianissimo. For the live gigs I play the Kawai sounds aren't that good but I'm old enough to remember a lot worse. At least it isn't a CP-70. grin

I have a TX81Z wasting a space in my rack. I ought to get a Motif rack or something to use as a piano patch source. But I hate spending money.




Edited by CEB (10/04/10 03:43 PM)
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#2235521 - 10/05/10 11:04 AM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: zephonic]
AnotherScott Offline
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MP-6 samples are posted at

http://kawaius.com/main_links/digital/PRO_2010/mp6_audio.html

Sounds good to me. If it were under 30 pounds, I'd probably buy it.

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#2235538 - 10/05/10 12:07 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: AnotherScott]
Dave Ferris Offline
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The "Concert Grand" has a bit of a refined CP-300 sound to it...which is not a bad thing at all. It sounds very good recorded, but then so do a lot of DPs.
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#2235540 - 10/05/10 12:10 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: AnotherScott]
allan_evett Offline
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I listened to the MP-6 tracks, then checked out the MP-10 / MP-6 brochure, as posted by the OP.

The MP-6 Concert Grand and Studio Grand are both quite impressive, recorded. Having owned a Kawai KG-2, and played a few of the other grands made by Kawai, I'm very familiar with the sound. The MP-6 does sound like a fine, mic'd reproduction of a Kawai Grand. In comparing the sound to that of a current Yamaha or Roland sampled digital piano, I'd say it's definitely a darker, yet rich tone. The Studio Grand reminds me somewhat of Program 2, Studio Grand in my PC3; but - in all fairness to Kurzweil (The PC3 being a terrific instrument, but not a dedicated piano) - the MP-6 seems to have a stronger sonic depth, with regard to piano tone.
If the player/keyboard connection is top o' the line, then Kawai may have a winner on its' hands. At 47 lbs, and including the sounds and features offered, the MP-6 could be a solid alternative to the RD-700 NX, or S90 XS. This is one I'm going to want to play at NAMM, as my current impressions are partial ones - being based only on a recording.

The info and specs for the MP-10 look very strong, competitively speaking. But what I think will determine its' place among digital pianos is the exact nature, sound, and playability of "Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging" (vs. "Progressive Harmonic Imaging", as found in the MP-6). This new MP-10 sound source will have to be something new, and different to place it in the ranks of the CP-1 and V-Piano, which - from my experience with both - are in a different league than other digital pianos.
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#2235545 - 10/05/10 12:28 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: allan_evett]
D-Bon Offline
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I can hear an improvement, though it's not radical. The artificial quality that plagued previous versions is lessened, though not entirely gone.

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#2235557 - 10/05/10 01:02 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: kanker.]
learjeff Offline
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Originally Posted By: kanker.
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Hope the new MP's can take it to the CP's, but they're gonna have to be a LOT better than the outgoing models to succeed.

They're going to have to be a HELL of a lot better IMO. The Kawai digital piano sound just ain't quite there by a bit of a stretch. I hope they've raised their game considerably, if anything just so they continue to put out wood action keyboards wink
You mean, it's even worse than NE2? Or does the NE2 get a pass due to its other sounds?
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#2235567 - 10/05/10 02:15 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: D-Bon]
kanker. Offline
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Originally Posted By: D-Bon
I can hear an improvement, though it's not radical. The artificial quality that plagued previous versions is lessened, though not entirely gone.
Yeah, that would be my initial impression too. It's definitely a step up from the previous generation's sound, but I'd have to spend some time with it to really get a better impression
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#2235568 - 10/05/10 02:16 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: learjeff]
kanker. Offline
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Originally Posted By: learjeff
Originally Posted By: kanker.
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Hope the new MP's can take it to the CP's, but they're gonna have to be a LOT better than the outgoing models to succeed.

They're going to have to be a HELL of a lot better IMO. The Kawai digital piano sound just ain't quite there by a bit of a stretch. I hope they've raised their game considerably, if anything just so they continue to put out wood action keyboards wink
You mean, it's even worse than NE2? Or does the NE2 get a pass due to its other sounds?
Heh, you know me - I'm quite satisfied with the piano sound in the NE2.
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#2257448 - 12/30/10 07:38 PM Re: CP-5 contender, Kawai MP10 [Re: kanker.]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Played the MP10 today and a Kawai DP console that shared the same action has the MP6, I think it was the CN33, don't hold me to that though. I was more focusing on the action then the model #.

The MP10 is nice ! Good selection of pianos from the "Concert" series. I like the "Jazz" pianos too. 3 variations on each. Excellent Rhodes, the very first one. Probably the nicest action I've played on a stage piano. For a studio I can see someone using this as their centerpiece. Also excellent for the home hobbyist or practice instrument for a pro player when there's a space/noise/$$$ issue. Tons of tweaking parameters for someone so inclined.

I brought my CP5 along for comparison. cool The Kawai action is superior, no question but something about the way the action and sound connect on the CP5-- I prefer it more. I guess I'm still a "Yamaha guy". grin

I wish he would have had the MP6 since that's the main one I'm interested in for gigging. The action felt more substantial on the CN33 then the Yamaha but also kinda slippery, I'd probably get used to it. The main piano sound through my 240 phones was good, different then the CP5. I might get used to it too but for now the edge still goes to the CP5.

Also got to play the Roland FP7f. The sound is pretty good but not a night and day improvement from the last generation. For me the action still bottoms out hard like the FP7. I would pass on this.

So waiting to see what's new at NAMM but as of right now leaning towards getting the SV-1...again. cry And possibly selling the CP5 and downgrading to the CP50. So basically I'd have two. The Korg for the more Rock/RnB/Jazz/questionable load in/small stage footprint gigs and the Yamaha for the straight Jazz gigs.

I played my old Yamaha GT-2 'Gran Touch' that he took in for a trade on a Korg, Kawai or Roland DP of my choice. He cleaned it up nicely, getting 13 years of accumulated dog hair out of the interior and fixed the non-playing keys-- it was a bad sensor board that he ordered from Yamaha for $150. He's also going to regulate the action..wow, I didn't know that could be done! But already the thing sounds and plays 50% better--I think I want it back. laugh

We'll see if new anything at NAMM changes my mind on the DP front.
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