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#2188699 - 05/09/10 03:58 PM How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again?
Beethree Offline
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Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1123
Cannot seem to find this in a search.......
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#2188700 - 05/09/10 04:25 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: Beethree]
JMcS Offline
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 2527
Press and hold the Brake, Control and Tone buttons and power on.


Scroll up through the menu to page F.

Have fun.



Edited by JMcS (05/09/10 04:42 PM)
Edit Reason: Add info.

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#2188816 - 05/10/10 07:11 AM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: JMcS]
Beethree Offline
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Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1123
Thanks!!
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Yamaha CP4, Hammond SK1, Mac Mini w/Mainstage, 2 JBL PRX612m's, Hammond A100,Leslie 147, Ventilator,Farfisa VIP, RMI electric piano, Young Chang 6'0" Grand, Voce V-5, Nord Electro 4 HP

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#2188916 - 05/10/10 12:37 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: Beethree]
muzikteechur Online   happy
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Loc: Kittery, Maine
Don't set your expectations too high...
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Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

A-105, Leslie 715, XK-3c, Kurz PC1x, Neo Vent, Motion Sound KP-200S, and a bunch of other stuff that weighs too much and doesn't sound authentic.



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#2188926 - 05/10/10 01:28 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: muzikteechur]
Beethree Offline
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Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1123
Just want to have some kind of piano sound, however crappy for the occasional rehearsal .
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#2189004 - 05/10/10 05:02 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: Beethree]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
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Sure that was XK1, not XK3?

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#2189007 - 05/10/10 05:10 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: The Real MC]
JMcS Offline
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 2527
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Sure that was XK1, not XK3?


The XK-3 and '3c have the Extra Voices built in. Hammond didn't make this known partly because they aren't state of the art sounds but mostly because they wanted the XK-3/'3c known as an organ and anything else would detract from that.

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#2189052 - 05/10/10 08:42 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: JMcS]
The Real MC Offline
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!!!

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#2189100 - 05/11/10 04:43 AM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: The Real MC]
muzikteechur Online   happy
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Registered: 07/30/08
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Loc: Kittery, Maine
The extras are a 60's pseudo-Wurli, a 70's Rhodes-ish sound, an 80's Electric Grandish sort of thing, two weak clavs, a Saw, and a lead sort of sound.
All very poor, especially when compared to the authenticity of the rest of the instrument. But, again, not really intended to be a drawing point of the instrument. A Nord Electro it ain't as far as EP and Clav.

After you do the BRAKE/CONTROL/TONE thing, and access the menu, you have to select "drawbars" and set them all to zero to hear the sound.
I find that after I've accessed the extra sounds, even after I've turned them off, there's some extra noise when playing with the drawbars at zero. Part of that was the Tube being on, but I had to cycle the organ off and on to get rid of it (which un-accesses the extra sounds).
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Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

A-105, Leslie 715, XK-3c, Kurz PC1x, Neo Vent, Motion Sound KP-200S, and a bunch of other stuff that weighs too much and doesn't sound authentic.



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#2189107 - 05/11/10 05:12 AM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: muzikteechur]
JMcS Offline
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 2527
On the XK-3c the drawbars stay active while the EV's are on but on the XK-3 they turn off. The XK-3 does not have the two synth sounds. The Control button can be set to call up the F menu page on both. However, the 3 finger salute must be done at power on on the XK-3 to make the menu page active and be able to turn the sounds on. The Control button can be programmed to call up the F page on the '3c and the 3 finger salute does not have to be done at power on to be able to turn the EV's on. Also, the User button can be programmed to toggle the EV on and off.

The XK-3c can access the EV's via the upper or lower manual (on the '3c not the System LM) using the split feature. By setting the split point at the highest C one can toggle back and forth between the organ and the EV's by hitting split. In addition, using manual bass allows the pedal tones to be blended in with the EV. Using the various pedal tone parameters - Decay, Sustain, Velocity and Poly along with the pedal "Voice" and attack setting the pedal drawbars can be used to fill out the EV tone.

When in lower manual mode the EV's respond to MIDI note data coming in on channel one so with a System a third manual may be used along with the System's 2 manuals plus pedals for organ.

Something I just learned this morning is that if the upper manual and pedals are set to the same channel the extra controller (sending on that channel) will play the blended EV and pedal tone but the '3c's manual will still play the organ alone. If kicking bass, the tones are blended there as well so a pretty hefty bass is available. Or a different bass module can be used.


Edited by JMcS (05/11/10 07:53 AM)
Edit Reason: add info.

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#2189670 - 05/12/10 09:29 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: JMcS]
The Real MC Offline
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Well I gave it a try and was surprised to find page F.

I have 70s EP, 80s EP, Clav1, Clav2, and vibes on my XK-3. No wurly or leads.

I have the XLK3 lower manual and it won't trigger them, only the upper manual. No way to blend organ and EPs, they are mutually exclusive. Turn the "EX" sound bank on and it disables ALL tonewheel sounds.

Tube overdrive, reverb, EQ, tone controls, pitch bend, mod wheel, leslie sim all work with the sound bank. Scanner vibrato has no effect. I can save it in a preset but I have to do the 3 finger salute on power up to recall the sound bank otherwise I get a tonewheel set.

No way are the Clavs "weak". I used to own a real clav and this set is pretty authentic. A real clav has yarn to dampen the string when you let up a key and you get this goofy release tail, you can hear it in the XK-3. The attack transient is right on. These are actually the most useful of the sound bank.

Clav works well with the tube overdrive when playing dynamic staccato stuff. I plugged my Moogerfooger Murf into the effects loop and was able to dial in the various permutations of the tone tabs of the real clav. Haven't tried my Morley wah pedal.

Vibes would have been real nice layered with tonewheel organ. 70s EP is passable for practice, 80s EP is useless and doesn't sound like the classic FM piano. I wasn't expecting great sounds.

Too bad that tonewheels can't co-exist - this would had been perfect for Green Eyed Lady or Foreplay/Long Time.

There wouldn't happen to be a page "G" would there...?!?

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#2189714 - 05/13/10 04:34 AM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: The Real MC]
JMcS Offline
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 2527
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Well I gave it a try and was surprised to find page F.

There wouldn't happen to be a page "G" would there...?!?


I haven't found one yet. On the '3c holding the 3 Leslie buttons down and powering on toggles the key trigger point to the lower switch normally used for velocity. Doing it again toggles it back to the higher point.

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#2190108 - 05/14/10 05:44 AM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: muzikteechur]
JMcS Offline
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 2527
Originally Posted By: muzikteechur
After you do the BRAKE/CONTROL/TONE thing, and access the menu, you have to select "drawbars" and set them all to zero to hear the sound.


Check the volume setting for the Extra Voices. IIRC the default setting is 100. You can turn them up so they match the organ volume better. Also, you might try one of the higher velocity settings.


Originally Posted By: muzikteechur

I find that after I've accessed the extra sounds, even after I've turned them off, there's some extra noise when playing with the drawbars at zero. Part of that was the Tube being on, but I had to cycle the organ off and on to get rid of it (which un-accesses the extra sounds).


What is the version # of the software that is installed in yours?

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#2438114 - 09/12/12 10:40 AM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: JMcS]
zoooombiex Offline
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Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 502
Loc: Ohio
This is a bit of a zombie thread revival, but I just stumbled across the whole hidden voice thing the other day and thought I'd add my $.02.

Tone-wise, the clavs and vibes are not bad. Two of the EP's are passable, one horrible EP, one horrible synth sound and one kind of funky but whacked-out synth sound.

For the clav, I hooked up my NE3 with an A/B box and I could tweak the XK3c clav to be pretty much the same. And actually, I usually run my clav through wah, distortion, and into a guitar amp, and with that setup you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I liked the fatter clav-1 sample, but the other was good for funky, cutting stuff.

One big difference though was the sample decay. The NE3 has a nice long, full sustain like a real clav [though it won't go into feedback :)] The XK3c dies off relatively quickly. It's not something you'd notice when doing the normal staccato clav playing, but if you hold out a nice distorted chord on the XK3c it will die out before you probably want it to.

For kicks, I also hooked up my D6 through the same setup. The Nord was a little more authentic dry, but again through effects they were all pretty close.

The vibes samples were probably a little closer from the start, and again could be tweaked to be pretty much the same. The NE3 has the advantage of different release settings, but with a damper pedal in the XK3c it was a wash.

The 60s EP was decent, though IMO it's a rhodes, not a wurly. I think the Nord rhodes samples are pretty good and I always preferred them no matter what settings were on the XK3c. But with a little tone tweaking and some light overdrive, the 60s EP is definitely workable.

The 70s EP is similar but starts to get some of that hollow 80s sound. It's not bad and you can dial some out by eq'ing, but then you've pretty much dialed it to sound like the 60s EP.

The 80s EP is pure cheeze. Horrible.

The first synthy lead sound is also pure cheeze. In the youtube video below the guy plays Jump with this sample and that pretty much says it all.

The other synthy lead sound was so riduclous it was actually kind of fun. I could only imagine using it as a gimmick, but it was still surprisingly enjoyable.


Also, just to elaborate on some points raised above, you can indeed layer the EV's and organ on the XK3c. And adding a pedal bass under a clav actually sounds pretty darn funky. But another neat trick is that you can run two sounds at once separately. Just split the keyboard, assign the EV to one part of the split and use the drawbars for the other side. (Effects are shared though...)

Two other points, you can assign the "user" button to turn the EV on and off. And you can save the EV's as a preset for quick access.

This all is probably old news to everyone else in the world, but there you go FWIW. Thanks to Jim and/or whoever else discovered this. Fun stuff.

And here's a video doing a quick demo of the EV's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1BHUEKQei4

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#2438168 - 09/12/12 01:52 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: zoooombiex]
JMcS Offline
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Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 2527
It is fairly difficult to produce a high velocity value with the X-3/3c's keyboard. If other controllers can be used or if the System lower manual can be sent through something that can add a % or value to the value generated the attack harmonics that are often not produced can be generated reliably. It makes a big difference in the sound.

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#2438172 - 09/12/12 02:26 PM Re: How do you access the alternate sound bank in the Xk3 again? [Re: JMcS]
CEB Online   content
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Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 6691
They are hidden for a reason. LOL!
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