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#2150164 - 01/04/10 10:47 PM Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..?
Mi8ty B0osh Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/10
Posts: 1
Bit of a novice here when it comes to tech equipment..which is why I'm here for a little help smile.
Is there any device..drum machine..looper etc with pre installed bass lines etc, that I can use for very basic live accompaniment. Where you can trigger the bass line to follow your chord changes using a guitar input into the device.
So basically I want the base line to follow my chord progression live..in real time. I know most of these devices have tons of programing capabilities with the option to create from scratch a more complex arrangement...but I would like to know if this simple option is available on any of these devices... thanks for any insight... thu

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#2150174 - 01/05/10 02:20 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Mi8ty B0osh]
Crazy Fingers Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Welcome to the forum Mi8ty! I have a Boss DR-770 that has that feature. It has a few bass sounds in there (upright, slap and rock) and you can program bass lines as well as the drum part.
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#2150224 - 01/05/10 07:45 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Crazy Fingers]
picker Offline
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 13106
Loc: Near 12th Street and Vine...
Zoom makes a drum/bass machine that you can program to do that stuff with. I'm not sure what the learning curve on it is like.
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#2150302 - 01/05/10 11:22 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: picker]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5247
Loc: Hwy 49, California
Welcome aboard BOosh...

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#2150320 - 01/05/10 12:10 PM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Larryz]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 9613
I'm not aware of any that will follow you, and the lag would probably suck. Bass and drums should set the tempo, not follow it.

On the other hand, there are boatloads of ways to write a track and you would have to follow it, just as you follow a drummer and bassist in a band, and follow the arrangement as written.

Band In A Box is one easy way in for you. Most any of the DAW programs would work, too.
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#2150336 - 01/05/10 01:19 PM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
RobRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 416
Loc: Ottawa, ON
You COULD do it, but it wouldn't be pretty. You'd need a guitar-to-MIDI converter, a hex pickup and a Roland Real-time arranger to provide drums and bass (and other instrument accompaniment).

Although I have a Digitech Vocalist II that can tell what chord I'm playing to provide vocal harmonies from just the guitar signal through a 1/4" jack. So an enterprising company could combine the chord detection tech and the R/T Arranger tech and provide a real-time accompanist product. The tech exists to bring it all together. It would follow you and you'd even be able to switch up variations based on verse and chous etc. with a footswitch.
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#2150337 - 01/05/10 01:20 PM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
RobRose Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 416
Loc: Ottawa, ON
You COULD do it, but it wouldn't be pretty. You'd need a guitar-to-MIDI converter, a hex pickup and a Roland Real-time arranger to provide drums and bass (and other instrument accompaniment).

Although I have a Digitech Vocalist II that can tell what chord I'm playing to provide vocal harmonies from just the guitar signal through a 1/4" jack. So an enterprising company could combine the chord detection tech and the R/T Arranger tech and provide a real-time accompanist product. The tech exists to bring it all together. It would follow you and you'd even be able to switch up variations based on verse and chous etc. with a footswitch.
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Gibson LP, PRS Custom 24, Girlbrand Tele, MusicMan Luke II, Tyler Variax, ESP EclipseII, Taylor GC Koa

PRS Custom 2-channel, Quilter MP Amps

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#2150967 - 01/07/10 10:36 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: RobRose]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5247
Loc: Hwy 49, California
Having a machine follow you with bass and drums in real time is not a "simple option" to find...I have the band in the box Boss DR5 which allows some guitar triggering but do no recommend it for what you're suggesting...I can load the bass and drums (keyboards, horns, etc.) into my Digitech JamMan Looper and use it live...but you have to follow and/or play with the tracks laid down (this will save hours of programming on the DR5)...I can also record live bass and drums on to the looper and have the best real time effect you can ask for (up to 99 songs)...just a suggestion...

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#2153072 - 01/12/10 11:01 PM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Larryz]
Mojo Bone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/04/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Deep In The Corn
Aaah, The Dream.....not having to depend on unreliable musicians to cut a gig. [sigh]

Yeah, I had that dream, too. Been chasin' that grail awhile, but the sad truth, as I see it, is that in a solo situation, you really need to be able to play solo guitar. (you don't have to be Joe Pass or Laurence Juber, though it couldn't exactly hurt)

Using a looper or tracks works best as a spice, rather than a main dish, because when you have parts that aren't live, it's just not live music anymore. I'm thinking of all the jumping around the hiphop folks have to do to distract an audience from this inescapable fact. If you have a great light show, dancers, costume changes, clever comedic patter or some such, you can pull it off for a few songs, but for me, it doesn't really work for a whole set.

That said, you can do a lot with Ableton Live and a laptop-not too many loopers let you change loop length on the fly like Ableton. (and you can use prefab loops or roll your own AND save them for future mangling) Roland's DR-3 drum machine has a feature called Rhythm Progressions; you can have three-maybe more sections, say verse, chorus, bridge, ending, and select them on the fly by sending the DR3 different MIDI notes, BUT the change doesn't happen til the current section is done playing-you can insert an extra chorus or verse or , heh, "Take it to the bridge-uh", great if the dance floor is full and you're not yet ready to 'turn it over'. You might could even synch Ableton to the DR3 as a slave and the DR3 would still respond to MIDI commands from Live. (or have MIDI notes from the DR3 trigger section length live-instrument phrase samples in Live) There are lots of cool options, but an arrangement that's spontaneously generated and follows you is still on the horizon, in my opinion.
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#2153096 - 01/13/10 04:52 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Mojo Bone]
Strategery Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3230
Loc: Georgia USA
I just sold my Boss DR-880 to a young college kid and he hooked it up to the top of the line Boss Looper pedal.

I'm an older guy and had much fun with this drum/bass machine but I sat there and watched this kid hook them up by cable and look up and enter some midi codes and next thing you know..he was a friggin one man band!! rawk grin

He had those two pieces of gear talking the same language in nothing flat!
I was very impressed.

Ok, the DR-880 does have bass lines and styles that you can choose from but you have to go in and preset the chord changes, but that goes very quickly.
If you have a set list...then you simply go in there and make the changes.
It's not that bad of a task.

Good luck.

Randy


Edited by Strategery (01/13/10 04:52 AM)
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#2153184 - 01/13/10 08:37 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Strategery]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 9613
"The Dream.....not having to depend on unreliable musicians to cut a gig. [sigh]"

Well, that us a whole different issue. I've been making my own backing tracks and such since MIDI was first released... I mean 4 bit sound cards and like that. I was around when Greg first released Cakewalk, and I had two of the earliest versions... one for standard MIDI cards and one for the MQX-32.

In the long run I discovered that the value in other musicians is not that they play, it is -what- they play. I was a drummer all through high school, and I can thump my way around a bass or a piano. But put a REAL bass player in the bass chair, and it is a different ballgame.

Very few solo cats are really good enough to pull off making amazing music on their own by cutting all the parts themselves. And nothing beats the groove set down by a live group.

In the mid-1990s I joined the "Real Music Played By Real Musicians In Real Time" club. Other answers are fine, and get work done when you need to get work done. But for making music, nothing beats the band.
_________________________
"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

Steve Martin

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.


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#2153214 - 01/13/10 09:44 AM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Crazy Fingers Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 58
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Amen Bill!
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#2153338 - 01/13/10 02:45 PM Re: Drum machine, looper for 'live' accompaniment..? [Re: Crazy Fingers]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5247
Loc: Hwy 49, California
I'm playing around with making my own "live" backing tracks using a looper...as I sing the song, I record what you see me playing as backing chords, when my lead comes up, I kick in the backing chords for a verse/chorus, then go back to singing and playing and kick off the looper...it's live and it sounds as good as what I just played as a back up guitar man and saves hiring another person to come up and play a few chords...first seen it done by Hall & Oates's Sax man live on Man Eater, playing back a line in harmony with what he just played...

my looper does allow for recording whole songs, to include waiting for phrases to come around after kicking them in with a footswithch, overdubbing on the fly etc...you could also use it as a band in a box and record live backing vocals, bass, drums, etc...but if doing a solo act it's too much crap to deal with...just using it as a back up chord man for short leads is enough for me doing a solo thing and/or playing with just my harmonica buddy as a duo...

as Bill says, the whole band is the way to go...

the method I use is easier than playing with a band in a box and it's a whole lot less programming and memorizing while doing a solo act...just do the song live, hit erase, and then move to the next song and do it again...it'll take time but I'm working on it as it's just too dry doing leads without backing chords...don't need bass and drums when playing solo... rimshot

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