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#2147469 - 12/26/09 08:15 AM Help needed for a really small room
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Hello fellow musicians, technicians and engineers wave

My name is Filipe and i have been producing music since 1995, and started producing more seriously since 2003. i recently bought a pair of near field monitors Adam a7, a super upgrade since i was working with a pair of behringer B2031A. I never had any kind of room treatment since im working on an office shared with my wife, i had to correct exaggerated bass frequencies and reverb mud with my akg headphones. I always knew that in order to have a quantum leap in my mixing skills i would have to treat my room, after successfully convincing my wife i got me a small room...errr, let me correct, a reallyyy small room, were i can now try to make a mixing both. In order to do this i need your help for determining the possibilities. The room measures are W= 1.40m L= 2.40m H= 2.50m

I made a few 3d views of it








Its a really small room and i dont have the knowledge to make it sound good/ acceptable so i hope you guys can give some pointers to make it work.

Thanks in advance, merry christmas and a happy new year!

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#2147474 - 12/26/09 08:25 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Frank2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Montreal, Canada
well, it is easy, treat all the 12 corners with 6" of owens corning 703 or Roxul safe'n'sound(cheaper, as good for acoustic but less rigid and easy to manipulate than 703)covered with fabric like burlap or cotton. Than 4 inch everywhere else.


Edited by Frank2 (12/26/09 08:26 AM)

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#2147478 - 12/26/09 09:01 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Frank2]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Thanks Frank i cant find OC 703 in Portugal ive looked already but no luck, ill check out the Roxul. Ill have to figure out a way to fit the corners so it wont steal all the space inside. I don't think triangular fits will do. Can only 12" panels solve the problem? if so should i leave air gaps between wall and panel or what do you recommend?

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#2147597 - 12/26/09 08:09 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Frank2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Montreal, Canada
i am not sure i do understand. but in the way i understand what you say, pannel of 12" large are too small. I would say at least 16" and do them full.
For wall pannel, it would be better to have 1 or 2 inch of air, but i guess you can't afford to loose that space, specially in the left and right area witch is so close, so put the treatment directly on wall. Understand that you need to make this room dead at the widest frequency range possible.

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#2148056 - 12/28/09 03:56 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Frank2]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Heres the specs of the best rockwool i could find after days of searching, does this look like it can do the job?





Edited by zenmind (12/28/09 03:57 PM)

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#2148221 - 12/29/09 07:03 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Frank2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Here is a list of many type of absorption coefficients, look if you can acces to a product that would have same spec as the Owens corning 703:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

I would take the time to find something better than that. Your low frequency problem will be very big so you need something very effective in low frequency range. Here in Richelieu, Canada, i have to do a special order to have the 703, it is not a product that is used very often so most hardware store don't have it in stock.

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#2148448 - 12/29/09 06:16 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Frank2]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
No luck with our suppliers here, none have heard of OC and the stuff i can find is all the same, good values for mids and highs but crap for lows, guess im stuck for the moment, is there any way i can enhance the absorption capacity of the material i posted above (until now its the one with higher values below 200hz, maybe in conjunction with other materials?

Thanks for your help Frank!

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#2148472 - 12/29/09 08:07 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Frank2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Montreal, Canada
well, if you can find a way to compress it more, it will help...It have to be around 3lbs/ cubic foot. Here, i have to talk with the boss directly, employee at the counter can't do any special order and are not interrested in helping. They just say " we can't have it, sorry" or "i don't think it exist". Now i have the business card of the boss and i call him directly, he place the order for me smile

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#2148658 - 12/30/09 12:51 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Frank2]
audiofreek Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/09/01
Posts: 782
Loc: Prince George,CANADA
If you do a "Superchunk"in the coners,you will be able to absorb to much lower frequencies.

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#2159000 - 01/29/10 04:41 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: audiofreek]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Sorry i disappeared but i have been travelling and just got back.

Well concerning the room i gave up for now, it wouldnt work anyway.

I decided to transform my office in a studio. I will post some pics soon, im going to build 10 broadband traps and order some corner traps from music store (they have their own brand really cheap.

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#2159409 - 01/31/10 01:09 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Hi ppl!

So here is my new puzzle, i used to have this room full with a big book shelf and other furniture, i emptied it and now its a big eco chamber, no use to turn on the monitors.

As i said earlier im building 10 broadband acoustic panels 1.36m x 0.60cm 4" thick, with the rock wool that i posted the specs above. I will use this design i found on Gearslutz .

So my idea is to put the panels in the front wall and the back wall covering them almost completely. Also im putting a cloud. For the corners i will buy the corner bass traps from music store (wife said nooo way to stick panels on the corner, bla blah..) so my qustions are:

1-Am i overdoing it?

2-Will the window and the closet be a problem, if so what to do?

3-Is there a better way to distribute them?
Heres some pics of the soon to be Zen home Studio razz







Cheers!



Edited by zenmind (01/31/10 01:20 PM)

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#2159713 - 02/01/10 08:16 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Originally Posted By: zenmind
1-Am i overdoing it?

Without knowing the dimensions of your room I can't say. But as a rule, it's not possible to have too many bass traps.

Quote:
2-Will the window and the closet be a problem, if so what to do?

Lack of symmetry is a problem.

--Ethan

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#2159860 - 02/01/10 02:06 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Ethan Winer]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Hi Ethan!

Thank you for popping up, the dimensions of the room are:

W - 2.85 m
L - 4.90 m
H - 2.66 m

I dont like to produce at high volumes so im aiming to have proper acoustics for no more than 85db. Im opened to any suggestions to tame this room smile

ZM

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#2160115 - 02/02/10 08:24 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Acoustics is linear, so whatever happens at low SPL levels also happens at high levels. As for advice, it's all over this thread. Or find it all summarized in one place here:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan

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#2195692 - 05/28/10 03:13 PM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Ethan Winer]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
After a few months of working hard heres the almost final result of my studio. I made 6 bass traps and now im in the process of making 4 more. Im also adding some acustical foam on the places that the traps didnt cover.

Heres the traps...




And heres the almost final setup, still have to make a clowd, the main monitors now have Auralex Mo-pads to decouple...The sound improved 400% im really happy with the results, though im still having problems around 120hz


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#2195829 - 05/29/10 10:25 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Very nice! thu

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#2264983 - 01/21/11 09:40 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Ethan Winer]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Hello Ethan and forum,

Im back again with yet another studio construction problem. I will have to move from the room i setup earlier (above)and will have to go back to the initial plan (the sketch room i first posted),

Im going to tear apart the wall with the door (see first pictures above)and extent the room a little bit so the measures will be:

Height - 2.60m
Width - 2.15
Lenght - 2.70

No windows just a door, my questions are;

1-What materials should i use to build the new wall so it keeps the sound in? what thickness and products to use etc...

2-Should i make a soffit system to put my adams a7 and behringer monitors?

3-I will have a looot of low end problems so what can i do to tame the room? problems are really bad starting from 60 to 500 hz

Thank you all in advance for your help smile

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#2264995 - 01/21/11 09:58 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
1) Sheet rock.

2) No.

3) Add a lot of bass traps.

--Ethan

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#2757309 - 02/20/16 01:29 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Ethan Winer]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Hello Ethan and forum!

After a few years of using the studio of the picture i recently changed to a basement and a completely new challenge to tame the ultra bad acoustics of the room. Its a 4m by 4m and 2m hight it resonates like the inside of a kick drum hehe!

I had to cover the front wall with 20cm thick acoustic foam (double layers)(, plus 4 broadband panels and created an almost perfect listening spot by adding a broadband panel to each side of the sealing corners were i sit, i have to figure a way to put a cloud but since im 1.95m tall i risk banging my head every time i get up the chair :P, oh well nothing good comes with out sacrifices.

Watch the video:
https://youtu.be/e5v_Sm8QWJY

I cant do much on the back of the room since the windows wont let me put bass traps on the corners (you will understand after watching the video) any sugestions?

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#2757703 - 02/21/16 10:48 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
I dunno, it looks like you've added about as much treatment as can fit. How does it sound? It must be much better than it was, no? grin

--Ethan

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#2758294 - 02/23/16 01:55 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: Ethan Winer]
zenmind Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 12
Hi Ethan,

The room sounds amazing, stereo imaging and accuracy is above acceptable. I can hear a 1db change in eq, but there is still problems at low end, cancellation still occurs (though were i sit is clean). Would a cloud help to minimize the lack of treatment in the back of the room? The odd window shape wont let me treat the corners and any more treatment in the front will make the room super dead but still low end problematic. But yeah much, much better and closer to any producers dream space control room smile

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#2758425 - 02/23/16 10:20 AM Re: Help needed for a really small room [Re: zenmind]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Any place you can put thick absorption can only help. Most people ignore the ceiling because it's difficult to put bass traps there. So if they do anything at all they add only a small cloud at the reflection area. But covering the ceiling with large thick absorbers is always good.

--Ethan

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Moderator:  Ethan Winer