Hi all,

My son presented me with the fantastic oppotunity to upgrade my studio monitors by pressing his finger into the diskant horn/tweeter on my tannoy reveal active.

Listened to Adam A7, JBL, KRK(muddy big ones)

Since there is a monitor jungle out perhaps I could get some input from you on what monitors you like.

/Fredrik

I assume you'll buy a replacement tweeter and keep your current though damaged system as an extra? It seems a shame to toss it if it can be easily repaired.

Yes off course.

first we would need a budget and a little more info. I use Dunlay SC-IIIAs with a Cello amp in a Real Traps treated room for stereo work. The Dunlavy/Velodyne surround rig went to the Great Room at home when I figured out that the studio surround work was never going to pay for itself.

Were I buying new today I'd probably buy Lipinski 707s with a pair of the matching subs and their custom speaker stands and amps. Very nice design and a fantastic sound.

Questeds are always nice. Adam 2.5s are very nice. I liked our Westlakes, and ATCs are a great choice.

There is no shortage of monitors out there, it only matters what quality you want and how deep your pockets are.

Technically, monitors with built in speakers... er... AMPLIFIERS... have more distortion than separate components... I can't explain it, I'm not a double E. On the other side of the equation, when a speaker cab is self-powered, you don't have to worry about external crossovers, amplifiers, balancing component outputs, and you can reasonably assume that the built in amp has enough power and headroom to do the job without distorting and burning your voice coils (depending upon the manufacturer that you pick).

The one thing that I try to avoid are the fads.. speakers form companies that nobody ever heard of a year ago.... because likely they'll disappear within two or three years and you'll own an orphan.

I have a pair of Genelec 8040a and absolutely love them. In addition to sounding great, the speakers are very well protected. The vulnerability factor eliminated a lot of other possible choices.

I have the DynAudio BM5As.

They sound very good to me. I think I paid $1200 out the door from Sam Ash, they were a demo pair. I've seen a pair has cheap has $900 on the LA Craigslist and Gearslutz Classifieds. I know you are in Europe so prices may vary. There is a large European contingent selling stuff on GS so you might want to check that out.

Like Bill said, it comes down to how much dough you want to spend. You can really go nuts with this stuff. I feel the Dyns are a nice compromise, this pair is a notch up from entry level, maybe a step up might be the Focal Twin6. I thought the Dyns had a little nicer sound for Acoustic music than the comparable Adam or Genelecs but that's my personnel opinion.

There are so many brands out there but has mentioned, stick with a longtime manufacturer. You might want to think of getting some dedicated monitor stands so the speakers and tweeters are out of harms way plus this puts them usually at optimum listening level. I bought a pair of KK Audio stands that I love.

Agreed - monitors without built in speakers have no noticeable distortion what so ever.

inb4davesaysblose701s.

oops, let me go back and correct that....

There - that's better although now I can say I did not know that. I always thought ref monitors with built in amps had less distortion being that the amps are ideally (hopefully) matched to their drivers by the manufacturer, have shorter cables, better connections etc. Not saying I disagree - I just never heard that and have no comparative experience of my own.

as did I. Just seems logical. But tests have been run, data has been compiled, and that is why the Lipinski monitor stands are built the way that they are built (hollow tubing which can be filled with sand or lead shot, with a slot or their amplifier to keep the cable run as short as possible... probably under a foot.) Marcus and Lukas wanted to have the best possible sound, lowest possible distortion, etc.

They also make their own converters which sounded very nice to me and some mic preamps which I have not used. And on the fun side, I heard their 6.2 surround setup in a small room in Ocean Way and it was stunning.... 174/24 bit symphonic recordings with the "6" being a high rear mounted cabinet which made it sound as if you were really sitting in a symphony hall.

Just how long does a cable have to be before it degrades the signal in a measurable (or even audible) way?

Thanks for the clarification Bill. I'm not familiar with Marcus Lucas or these products you speak of. I'm guessing (or not) that once you reach a certain level of high fidelity this all becomes very subjective and we alll know this has been argued to death. I'm also betting that if I heard the set up you refer to I would be very impressed.

Depends. Audiophiles, yes. Mastering guys, no. Accuracy is what mastering types are looking for. And yes, one can always argue that all decisions are subjective.

A number of mastering rooms have replaced their Dunlavy rigs with Lipinski speakers. This is one of the situations wherein progress has been good to us, as the Lipinskis have taken the best parts of the past products, tested, refined, augmented, and changed these designs to make a better mousetrap. Likewise they looked at the Bel Canto amplifiers (which became the amp of choice for many Lipinski speaker users) and created their own amplifier line, same with converters etc.

This differs from audiphile lines of equipment in that the audiophile gear is often not accurate, but 'pleasing'. Nothing wrong with that. But there is where subjectivity is more in play.

Depends upon the signal that you are pushing through it. There are tables for the drop in voltage over distance for common extension cords. You would probably be pretty dismayed if you looked at one and saw how much voltage drop there was in the typical 16 gauge extension cord over 50 feet. Guitar cords start to change the signal almost immediately, which was one of the first promotional tools used when wireless guitar rigs were introduced. But we are also talking about a number of factors which occur besides degradation, relating to the electrical performance of the amp and speakers.

I wouldn't say it is something that you need to worry about. It doesn't hurt to know about it. And if you really study it, you might change how your systems are assembled. But that whole can of worms comes with additional issues... like, the low budget gear is not going to be helped much since it really sounds like shit anyway, but who wants to pay for the real deal and cart it around every night?

Not since I discovered years ago that my 30 gal compressor won't kick on unless plugged directly into an outlet. User manual says do not use w/ extension cord. Almost returned it but read some where that you should RTFM.

Anyway the current is so small with speakers that I think the reactance becomes much more important than the minute voltage drop. Besides who cares as long as you drop an equal amount of very small volt across all speakers?

What was the subject of this thread again?

Also I know nothing about mastering equipment and makes so thanks for enlightening me.

You would probably be pretty dismayed if you looked at one and saw how much voltage drop there was in the typical 16 gauge extension cord over 50 feet.

I don't think I have anything close to a 50 foot extension cord, but I could hook up several and read the voltage at the wall and the voltage at the end. Perhaps someone here with a lot of free time could do this and publish the results.

You wrote ... to keep the cable run as short as possible... probably under a foot.

Since you mentioned an actual footage, one could construe that a cable length of several feet could degrade the signal or not?

Are we splitting hairs here? Is there an audible difference between a speaker run of one foot or ten feet?

Hi thanks for the suggestions

budget is around 1200 dollar so I guess the lipinskis are out of the question, I will look into westlake and ATC guess they are also out of the question because of the budget

Anyhow I made a shortlist of

Dynaudio DP5m
Genelec 8030A
Adam A7s
Focal CMS 50

Anyone with experience with
PMC DB1S+
PMC TB2+

Any other to add to the short list??

Stands was a very good suggestion.

Interesting discussion on distortion and cable length, an audiophile friend of ine spent 100dollars on rubbersupports for his cd player....guess I'm not there yet.

/Fred

I did a double check on my model # and they are actually the Dynaudio BM6As mkII NOT the BM5As. I get their model #s mixed up, the 6As are the newer model with better bass response.
http://www.dynaudioacoustics.com/bm6amkii.asp

Regarding the PMCs, before I bought the Dyns I did look at those but decided they were out of my league price wise. But here is a thread I started over at GS regarding the PMCs and the fact they were re-designing their product line. Some people chimed in that are lot more familiar with the speakers than I am.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/377079-new-pmc-db1s-tb2s.html

Personally, I would take some CDs (or created your own mix CD) to a store that has a variety of monitors set up in a listening room with switching capabilities. You should be able to quickly narrow your list down based on your ears, not someone elses. Make sure you are very familiar with the source material.

Also SoundonSound has numerous full reviews available at their site. So long as it doesn't say eSub you can read the entire review online.

Sound on Sound Monitor Reviews

Busch.

PMCs were very popular for a time, and seem to have dropped off the radar.

"I would take some CDs (or created your own mix CD) to a store that has a variety of monitors set up in a listening room with switching capabilities."

This is less useful than you might imagine, and savy salesmen can beat you in a second using common but dishonest sales methods. Here is a simple one... play a speaker that has, say, a hyped upper mid-range, followed by a speaker that is perfectly flat. The flat and accurate speaker is going to sound dull and lifeless after your ears have heard the hyped speaker. Meanwhile, if you mix on a speaker with a hyped mid-range, your mixes will be light in the mids, vocals and solos will meld into the background. Then if you master on the same speakers, you will again dampen the mids, compounding the error. Why would the salesman care which speaker you bought? Profit margins, manufacturers sales bonuses, or excess inventory come to mind.

Hey not to barge in but could we change the topic title, please? I keep scanning the page and seeing "My youngest son, killed."

Thanks!

Terrible, unfortunately I don't know how to change the title.

I wanted to bring this speaker cable issue up again, partly because I did not hear from Dave,so I don't know that he got my last link, and partly because, in going through some papers today, I found a speaker cable column written by the late Mark Amundson of FOH magazine.

In his column he describes the pitfalls of picking cables, and also gives the formula for determining cable impedance, which I though was kinda handy for the tech types who really want to know what is going on. I tore it out of FOH and stuck it with other tear sheets that I planed to keep around, since it is often easier to find stuff in a stack of paper than to compile all the appropriate references from the tech books and manuals when someone asks a complex question like 'what difference does speaker cable make'. (I know that the question was a little different, but you cannot properly answer it without adding the other considerations.)

So,I imagine that FOH keeps archives on line. Look for Marks Nov 2009 article.