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Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line #2138255
11/28/09 04:21 AM
11/28/09 04:21 AM
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Westville, IN
allan_evett Offline OP
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allan_evett  Offline OP
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The post regarding the PLG-150 organ board got me thinking. The Roland Fantom G series has some excellent sounds/features. But when I've played one of these keyboards, I've been struck by the lack of programmability/versatility of the organ voices. It seems that, other than a few upgrades and control twists, the basic organ sounds haven't changed much since the mid 90's (JV>XV>Fantom) Meanwhile, Kurzweil has been offering KB-3 mode for over ten years, and has continually improved upon it. It would be great to see a modified VK Engine (with a killer, modeled rotary sim) as an option - kind of like what's been done with the RD 700 line. I wonder though, if this might be something beyond the scope of an 'ARX Clonewheel Card'(Compared to SRX technology, I'm not familiar with what ARX is capable of). I'd be looking for a fully controllable organ voice: drawbars, rotary speed, etc. all addressable from front panel and pedal controls. Also having the organ parameters controllable via MIDI would be ideal; would definitely tempt me to upgrade from my XV-5080 to a Fantom GR.
(Guessing that we'll see that one at Jan.'10 NAMM)


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







KC Island
Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: allan_evett] #2138269
11/28/09 07:07 AM
11/28/09 07:07 AM
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Gary75 Offline
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The day a keyboard satisfies that need will be a great day! I guess they came closest with the V-combo clone organ with it's ability to accept srx cards. Obviously this would be far better if it was the other way round with an organ card. Doesn't the V-Synth have a CX3 engine in there?


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: Gary75] #2138296
11/28/09 11:23 AM
11/28/09 11:23 AM
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burningbusch Offline
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The recently discontinued Roland G70 has the VK organ modeling built in with a neat mini-drawbar feature as well. Some of the other high-end Roland arrangers have it but the G70 was the closest to a pro synth.



Busch.

Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: burningbusch] #2138305
11/28/09 12:36 PM
11/28/09 12:36 PM
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Gary75 Offline
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Well you learn something new every day, I had no idea such a thing existed!


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: burningbusch] #2138317
11/28/09 01:24 PM
11/28/09 01:24 PM
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Posts: 3,915
Westville, IN
allan_evett Offline OP
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allan_evett  Offline OP
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I don't recall the V-synth having a Clonewheel engine, though I do seem to remember it taking cards that duplicated other synth engines (The D50 card is the one that comes to mind.) Great concept, though.

I remember the G70, and its' built in VK engine/drawbar controls. I think I nixed the idea at the time, due to the G70 price point. Also, it was impossible to find one to play (Always seemed to be a 'special order' item).

Korg had built a CX-3 engine into their Pa-Pro X, which effectively provided an M3 sound engine with a CX-3/mini drawbar combination. It sounded killer on the video from one of NAMM shows. I was about to pull the trigger on that one a while back (thinking: 'perfect 2nd tier 76 key compliment to my main tier 88'). However I discovered that, while the Pa-Pro X had the sonic capabilities of the M3, it lacked the synth programmability. All it had was a simple edit section for Programs: brightness adjustment, single ADSR, maybe one/two other things. Not sure if you could even store those edits, either.

The PC3X essentially has all of the right features on board - especially with KB3. But I like having a different, complimentary soundset (Yamaha, Roland, Korg, etc.), and figure that the other manufacturers should offer the same flexibility. There are work-arounds,especially using multitimbral capabilities and MIDI. But sometimes I just want two 'everything' 'boards (one 88, one 76) that I can just plug in and play. I've experienced too many set up situations where I've wanted to have the best sounds, but have ended up being crunched by time (especially festivals). It's a PITA scrambling to connect MIDI cables, modules, etc. when your act is on in three minutes...

The V-Combo was a great piece, and I did use one back in '03/'04. What was frustrating about that one, though, was the lack of separate outs for the organ section. I'm with you, b3boy, on that concept being engineered the other way around: organ card/board in the synth; and build it with a pair, or two, of extra outputs. But now we're back to where I began with this...


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: allan_evett] #2138321
11/28/09 01:57 PM
11/28/09 01:57 PM
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Posts: 8,141
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burningbusch Offline
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I've been hoping Korg would come out with a self-contained CX3 module for the M3 series. The M3 is modular and as you can add a full RADIUS synth, it would be extremely cool to have a drawbar controlled CX3 module that could also be added to the unit. That, along with the RADIUS-EXB would give you excellent synth, organ and sample playback.

It has always been a head scratcher for me as to why the Big 3 include organ modeling to their top arrangers but never the pro synths.

As far as KB3 mode is concerned, it never worked for me (including the PC3).

Busch.

Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: allan_evett] #2138322
11/28/09 01:58 PM
11/28/09 01:58 PM
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Gary75 Offline
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My mistake! Was thinking of the Oasys! Too much study affecting brain sorry!


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: allan_evett] #2138324
11/28/09 02:02 PM
11/28/09 02:02 PM
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Montreal, Quebec
Ian Benhamou Offline
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The V-Synth doesn't have an organ model. It's really a synthesizer. Although it does have rompler capabilities, it's not a unit you use to dial up a piano or string patch. It really is used for synthesizer sounds.

I'm with you on the workstation plus concept. From what I understand, only the Oasys had full workstation features and sounds plus VA and CX-3 engine, but it cost 8 Grand.

The Motif and Fantom are strictly ROMplers with sampling. Why the Fantom series hasn't integrated their VK technology or V-Synth/V-Piano technology is puzzling. Maybe and ARX board will be released that could do this. As far as I understand, the ARX boards are not ROM cards but actual synthesizers. They use up their own polyphony and they use modeling synthesis. Maybe something new at NAMM.

The PC3x has the ROMpler, with complete programming capabilities, plus VA oscillators and KB3 mode. This is all packed in at a reasonable price. There's no sampling though. We'll have to wait for the K3000 possibly.


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The Musical Box
Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: Ian Benhamou] #2138341
11/28/09 03:40 PM
11/28/09 03:40 PM
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Posts: 3,915
Westville, IN
allan_evett Offline OP
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allan_evett  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Ian Benhamou

I'm with you on the workstation plus concept. From what I understand, only the Oasys had full workstation features and sounds plus VA and CX-3 engine, but it cost 8 Grand.


As far as I understand, the ARX boards are not ROM cards but actual synthesizers. They use up their own polyphony and they use modeling synthesis. Maybe something new at NAMM.



I always thought that, sonically, the OASYS 76 would be an awesome 'board to own: Just leave the Rompler, VA, and CX-3 onboard and put it out at a reasonable price (say within range of a PC3). I Don't need the on-board recording studio., etc. OASYS 76 LE, perhaps ? Never happened, and certainly won't now. That's too bad: it might've captured the market better than the M3, which - as we've seen - was not originally designed to cover a broad player base, style-wise. (VS 2, or OS 2 with the extra sounds was designed to fix that image; but I'd already returned my M3M to Sweetwater for a Motif XS 7...).

Thanks for clarifying the ARX board capabilities, Ian. That makes them more like the PLG boards from Yamaha - which is great news.


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: Wish: A Clonewheel Option For The Fantom G Line [Re: allan_evett] #2138363
11/28/09 06:04 PM
11/28/09 06:04 PM
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Posts: 1,575
Montreal, Quebec
Ian Benhamou Offline
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Yeah, I gasped when I first saw the M3. What a ghastly looking synth! It looks more like an arranger keyboard than a pro synth. It almost looks like the empty spaces on each side of the module were left there for speakers.

Korg has never been my cup of tea soundwise. Even in the old days of the M1, I much preferred the sound of the D-50. The M3 for me is more suited for hip-hop producers than pro keyboard players.


Ian Benhamou
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The Musical Box

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