Good point. I know some makers list the origins of particular lines in their catalogs, perhaps Breedlove does this- I'll have to take a look.


Well, I'm unlikely to be traveling far with the guitar, so once it acclimates to the North Central Texas climate, it will be in a fairly stable environment. (As opposed to our music director who just plunked down a grand or so for a "beater" to take overseas.)

That the thinlines may have more of an electric profile neck is also a factor. As yet, I've not been able to put in any serious time trying out the 12s in my locale- just a few minutes each, due to RW interruptions- but I did note that the 12s were more akin to my classical in neck dimensions.

A little more ease of use (due to a slimmer neck profile) may help me fit in with the more practiced musicians.

Thanks for that!

for what it's worth, I play a Danelectro 12 string (90's model) through a Janglebox and never fail to have guitarists in the crowd come up to ask how I made a Dano sound like McGuinn's Ric.

Jerry Jones makes a better Danelectro...

I've also heard good things about the Eastwood and Italia 12 strings...

Acoustics, I dream of having a Guild someday. I have beat up Yamaha. I've played old Alvarez 12 strings that were wonderful guitars, but I don't come across them ever.

I've seen a few good reviews of the Janglebox. How much do they run again?


Well, there is this one at my local Music Go Round (see the top of the page):
http://www.musicgoround.com/search.aspx?q=12-string+guitar&cid=8&scid=0&sid=0&z=&d=10&min=&max=&c=10&ob=6

I think I ordered my original Janglebox right before they had to raise the price... they're maybe $280 for the new JB2, but it can function as a compressor, treble boost or clean boost... or all three at once... people complained that the originals were "one trick ponies," but I've had fun coming up with lots of stuff to use it for... including on an acoustic guitar for flat picked or finger picked passages in a song with a lot of strumming otherwise. Elliot Easton apparently uses it as his boost for solos or something driving Marshall JCM 2000 stacks. We've plugged a lap steel and a mandolin into it with cool results.

Go play that Alvarez, it might be great... I haven't seen one in a while but I guess the price has appreciated.

Interesting- is there a Janglebox demo floating around out there?

As for the Alvarez...yeah, I'll give it a try. My only personal experience with the company was the first guitar I ever owned. It was a cheapie- I played it hard for a few years, and when I took it in for an issue that had developed, the tech (at Charlie's of D/FW) told me it would be cheaper to replace than repair. Enter, my Ovation.

Re: the sub-$1000 Breedloves:

From their catalog, the Atlas series (of which these 12s are a member) are



etc.

I didn't realize until just recently that my Carvin links in the first post were bad- they're fixed now.

"so once it acclimates to the North Central Texas climate, it will be in a fairly stable environment. "

It is not going to acclimate. You either have to have a humidifier or you don't. If the instrument dries out, you'll have frets popping, neck warpage, and possibly bridge rotation (at which point you can throw the guitar away.) I had frets popping on my Santa Cruz when I left it in a dry environment, thankfully I caught it and got it to the luthier before too much damage had been done.

Which brings up another point..... remember when guitars were not as finicky as they are today? Seems the cheapest ones are the most hardy.

Well, I haven't had any humidity-related problems with my A/E Washburn thinline bass, my other guitars (including a Yamaha classical guitar and a couple of hollowbodies), or my 32 year old cello, so it may not be much of an issue around here.

(Nor did my last cello teacher, and his instrument was 400+ years old...)

Of course, I have no idea as to whether cellos and guitars have comparable vulnerabilities to the climate.

Our humidity varies between 33%-83%, with an average of 58%.

I really, really want to try out a Jangle Box, myself! One of the compressor pedals that seem interesting to me... And if Roger McGuinn uses and endorses it, it's gotta be good!

"Of course, I have no idea as to whether cellos and guitars have comparable vulnerabilities to the climate."

They should, so if one is safe, the other should be, too. The average of 58% is very nice, but once things drop below 40%, I'd be putting in a hmidistat or something similar. (My own cheap answer was to drill some 1/8" holes in a couple of film can lids, and cut a small piece of sponge to fit inside each film can. Keep it damp, not wet, and leave one or two and the instrument in the case when the humdity is low.)

Here, in the winter the humidity can drop below 11%. I had whole house humidification put into the studio and both houses.

I cut my musical teeth too in a Catholic church choir. It is surprising how egotistical (I sadly have to admit I am guilty here as well) everything can be even in a situation where you are really just supposed to be leading people in song.

So instead of trying to stand out, think more about blending in. Church choir isn't the best place to try and be unique and stand out. My experience in ten years in the choir really helped me think about the big picture and how to play music with other musicians, it wasn't just about what I was playing. If you really think the 12 string is something you want to try then it's ok. but remember its really about the group experience, not you standing out in the performance.

Well, I'm not so much trying to stand out as to bring something to the mix that isn't there already- a little extra texture.

Remember, this group already has 2 (high-end, well played) 6-string acoustic guitars in the mix...a third would be pretty redundant. I'd contribute more by joining the choir proper (doped up on a LOT of allergy meds).

Of course, realize also that the final decision as to what- if anything- I contribute to the choir rests with the music director. If he wants my 12, he gets my 12. If he wants me to play a 6, I'll do that. If he'd prefer I sing, so be it.

I'm with you on the texture thing. What about an instrument tuned a 4th above, like a Baby Taylor or a Mustang or DuoSonic? Get those extra high textures without the redundancy in the guitar range, as three would be a bit much... Or a baritone guitar? (That might mud things up in a church...)

Yeah, I had been thinkin' about the same things; also, what about a nylon-strung, amplified-classical-like guitar? Nice, warm, churchy, different from the others there yet blendable...

Hmmm...I hadn't considered going for something short-scale. I can't say that I've played anything tuned up a fourth... I'd have to figure out the locations of the chords.

On the baritone side...while I'm looking to own a bari some time in the future, I already have a few guitars I tuned to NST that covers a bit of the same sonic range...

Besides, the bass player might complain! And we have fairly bright sound overall- our choir is definitely soprano-heavy- and it sounds quite nice in our Church. We've also recently added some teens playing a flute and a violin (or viola...couldn't tell at the time).

I am all for mini-orchestras, in church or elsewhere... SERIOUSLY!
Soprano-heavy?? Well, the good girl singers in our church seem to be mostly sopranos.. or maybe high altos. There are no good male singers right now, since one of our former bandleaders is taking a sabbatical. Of course, there is me, a baritone... but I never developed any kind of vocal chops, although occasionally I'll suggest a harmony note to one of the singers.

I would love to have a good violinist or cellist in the mix. For a while I played mandolin in a church in the Village where sometimes the pastor's kids came in, Juilliard students on violin, viola and cello. Yes indeed it was simple music - hymns - but I really enjoyed playing with them, and was honored that they LET me!

On the inexpensive side, I have a Danelectro electric 12-string. Easy to play, mostly, but pulls sharp if you're not mindful of your fretting hand... I have to admit I've wondered about coupling it with a JangleBox, especially since I can't afford the luxury of a Rick...

Also on the inexpensive side, I own an acoustic Alvarez and it's great. The bridge they're using right now is designed so that the bridge doesn't lift. Good action, good sound.

At the other end of things, a Taylor 354ce would probably satisfy all of your 12-string cravings. It'll sound and play great, and plug in superbly with the Expression system.

If you could find a Taylor T5 12-string used, that'd probably also be stunning--lots of sounds and easy to control plugged in....

Mind you, sometimes just playing a six string capoed someplace other than everybody else makes a contribution....

Y'know, the several times that I played a Danelectro 12 string electric- the "new" ones that came out in the '90s- I liked 'em enough to want one sometime; just never got around to it. Pretty cool guitars, really.

Y'know, the several times that I played a Danelectro 12 string electric- the "new" ones that came out in the '90s- I liked 'em enough to want one sometime; just never got around to it. Pretty cool guitars, really.

I understand that there are pedals that give a sort of a 12-string type sound. I've never tried one, though some people have told me that they don't sound that good. Might be worth trying out in a store that lets you do so before purchasing.

Still, given the intended usage, there is no advantage to an actual 12 string, as there are two other guitars playing at the same time. Something in a different pitch would probably be a better choice.

If it weren't for us already having a good bass player...

http://www.zozomusic.com/musicstore/pc/Hamer-Chaparral-12-String-Electric-Bass-Guitar-CH12-47p19.htm

(Heh-like I could actually play the thing! Might make a nice conversation piece, though. ;))

There's also Nashville tuning, where you take a regular 6-string guitar and use octave strings for the lower 4 - as opposed to the lower 40, for you Alaskans in the audience......

In churches one quickly realizes that the vast majority of the congregation isn't focusing on the details of our genius guitar parts anyway, which of course doesn't mean we don't want to play well and sound good anyway!

PS Should have been the "lower 48" - my bad, LOL! Doesn't change the Nashville tuning, though.....

"There's also Nashville tuning, ..."

Well, it's Nashville strung.... but that is a decent idea. I'd at least capo up four frets though.

OK...while I've heard of Nashville tuning, I'm entirely unfamiliar with the details of it.

Octave strings are??? My tuning would look like???

Oh yeah- I don't own a capo, so if I were to get one, suggestions for a quality one would be appreciated.

Nashville stringing is putting the next octave up strings on a guitar, in place of the normal gauge and, obviously, then tuning the strings an octave higher.

So the high E and B stay the same. The others are understrung to the same gauge as the high strings on a 12 string.

In a capo, look at Keyser. They seem to be common, and are well made.

So, if I understand this properly, the tuning will still be EADGBE, but the EADG part of it will be an octave higher?

So my chords stay in the same positions and I get the "jangle" of the 12 string without buying a new guitar?

That could work...

The octave strings- what size are they usually? Would I need to get some 12-string sets or could I just use a variety of light strings?

" the tuning will still be EADGBE, but the EADG part of it will be an octave higher?"

Yes, just like a 12 string.

10, 14, 9, 12, 18, 27 is one listing that I see. No reason to buy and break up 12 string sets, just go to where they sell singles and buy the gauges that you need.

I'm going to have to give that some serious thought. Thanks!