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#2130886 - 11/02/09 06:49 PM Crash course needed...
Griffinator Offline
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I'm a rhythm guitarist by trade. Always have been. Only leads I've ever done were learned by rote, and they always took a while.

Here's my problem.

I have a lucrative gig sitting in front of me waiting to take (band is booked through March, nothing less than $125 per person per show, 2-3 gigs per week).

Originally, I had discussed coming in as a rhythm player to support their lead guitarist, who wasn't happy with the lack of density in the band's sound.

Now, the lead guitarist has quit, and I can take the gig if I can learn their set list (45 songs, none of which I've ever played on guitar) in a week and a half.

Now, I can knock down primary riffs, chords, things like that this fast, but no way in hell I can tear apart 45 solos (well, probably 30-35, since some of the songs have no "lead" parts per sec) and memorize them all in 10 days.

So I need a crash course in just basic trick licks so I don't sound like a complete noodling moron out there faking it with pentatonic scale quarter notes.

Anyone got a resource for me?

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#2130893 - 11/02/09 07:34 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
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sorry man, I feel your pain. Wish I had some good advice for you, but I don't, other than to suggest that you not become another hack guitarist stringing together old tired licks.
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#2130902 - 11/02/09 08:54 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
trushack Offline
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Loc: DC Metro area
Originally Posted By: Griffinator

Now, I can knock down primary riffs, chords, things like that this fast, but no way in hell I can tear apart 45 solos (well, probably 30-35, since some of the songs have no "lead" parts per sec) and memorize them all in 10 days.


You're further along than you think. Build your "placeholder" solos out of those chords and riffs. Pull apart a main riff and reassemble it in a different order or "double stop" it. Find the main chord tones, add some "flavor" notes like flat 5...there's a lot you could do here and you'll stand a better chance of improving your sound rather than recycling old stuff everyone has already done before.

If you need something quicker and dirtier, an old trick I learned was that you can basically play any notes you want in a phrase as long as you begin an end it on the root note. For example, if the key is A, you can start a phrase with an A, play whatever notes, then end on A. It won't sound perfect, but you'll hit more "right" notes than "wrong" ones.

I've never found this to work very well for anything other than weird, jazz/fusion stuff, however, though it can spice up a rock solo when used sparingly. You may want to experiment a little bit on your own before trying this out with the band,

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#2130916 - 11/02/09 09:49 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: trushack]
Larryz Offline
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You've got a lot of bookings through March, start advertising for a lead player ASAP, unless your sound will carry you through without a lead player...advise the next gig or three that you are minus a player and are reducing your prices and be willing to give up a gig if you can't pull it off....just thinking outloud and let the band decide...you may sound just as good with or without the lead parts...hard to tell without hearing you...

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#2130944 - 11/03/09 12:47 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Larryz]
Bluesape Moderator Offline
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Just try arpeggiating the chords in these songs for a feel of where they go - in the Pentatonic scale, minor runs can be played in the same position on the neck as the chords, such as frets 5 through 7 for A, with major runs made 3 frets down - 2 through 4 for A. PM me if ya want.
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#2130951 - 11/03/09 02:11 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Bluesape]
Justus A. Picker Offline
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The only thing you can do is fake it. Learn the general structure of the lead break, where it begins, where it ends and how it gets there. What sort of "story" it tells and try and emulate the path. You want to make it your own anyway. You're a good writer, just think of the lead breaks as little instrumental compositions and insert your melodies for what is already in place.
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#2130961 - 11/03/09 04:37 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
skipclone 1 Online   content
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Without seeing the set list, I would second the advice of playing from the chords. Keep your hands in the same position, arpeggiate the notes and just add hammerons and pulloffs. Some people play solos entirely in that style.
I`m guessing that kind of gig would require you to play recognizable riffs note for note-not much of a shortcut around that and it always sounds like crap if you kinda sorta do it. You got some homework to do my friend. Good luck.
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#2130968 - 11/03/09 05:03 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: skipclone 1]
Billster Offline
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Just work the key signature in the correct major or minor pentatonic scale and you'll sound like a rockin' guy. Don't play minor pentatonics over major key chord progressions. Don't play the relative major over minor progressions.

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#2131206 - 11/03/09 04:27 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: skipclone 1]
Griffinator Offline
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I`m guessing that kind of gig would require you to play recognizable riffs note for note-not much of a shortcut around that and it always sounds like crap if you kinda sorta do it. You got some homework to do my friend. Good luck.


Luckily for me, there's only one piece where there's an expectation of note-for-note - and it's a composed interlude, so it's understandable - Molly Hatchet "Dreams"...

Rest of it, as the bassist told me, "we really don't give a f*** as long as you're hitting the changes and it sounds good."

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#2131218 - 11/03/09 05:08 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
Fingerstyle_Jim Offline
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Here's what you need - "pentatonic scales" - search this online and learn, it's the only scale Angus Young Knows(ACDC) and it will get you through a lot, OK most of the rock songs out there today. When I played in a bar band they let let me improvise most of the solos and the pentatonic(5 note scale) saved me. Big time. 5 simple patterns on the fretboard, trust me,

Jim
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#2131232 - 11/03/09 06:00 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Fingerstyle_Jim]
Griffinator Offline
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Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
I already know pentatonics, guys. I just remember sitting in an audience at watching a guy noodle through pentatonics and thinking "damn, he's ruining the song"

So I was hoping maybe there might be someplace I could swipe some quick and dirty "cliche" licks that are found in a lot of these solos so I could at least recognize them when they came up and cop that much of the original solo.

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#2131239 - 11/03/09 06:30 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
A String Administrator Offline
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#2131270 - 11/03/09 09:58 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: A String]
Gruupi Offline
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I have listened to your recordings Griff and you can play, so you should at least take the gig. A week and a half is tough but approach it as simply as possible. Ask the band to maybe quickly arrange the tunes so that you aren't playing as many leads until you get your feet wet. If you are good at improvisation then maybe things will be easier, sometimes wanking on a pentatonic scale can be effective:).

I was in a similar situation on my first ever paying gig and had to learn a full three sets in a month. I was lucky in that most of the stuff was three chord rock and I just played lots of Chuck Berry type things, I hadn't played any of the songs before, and couple that with never having gigged you can imagine how nervous I was. I nearly threw up in the club the night of the show. If I had to listen to the performance I would be embarassed, but really it went ok, the club was really meant for 30 people but 100 were there.

So just attack this as a work in progress, no one expects you to learn 45 songs and be tight in 10 days. Do your best, work hard, and just realize that if these are people you want to work with then they will be understanding as you learn to fit into their musical scheme.
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#2131273 - 11/03/09 10:45 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: A String]
JMaserati Offline
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Registered: 10/24/09
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Hey Griff -

See if any of the songs are on vanderbilly.com - video lessons, song by song.

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#2131291 - 11/04/09 01:34 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Fingerstyle_Jim]
picker Offline
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There really is no shortcut to excellence. Go with what you know for now, and work on it as you do. Things will improve gradually.
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#2131307 - 11/04/09 05:22 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: A String]
Griffinator Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String


Not until just now, but it's going into the bookmarks. smile

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#2131308 - 11/04/09 05:22 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: picker]
Griffinator Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
There really is no shortcut to excellence. Go with what you know for now, and work on it as you do. Things will improve gradually.


There are definitely no shortcuts to excellence, but there are shortcuts to functionality on short notice. smile

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#2131311 - 11/04/09 05:44 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
A String Administrator Offline
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I agree with the other guys Griff. Play "within the box" for now, just noodling a little bit over each song. As you go, learn the solos.

Until the gigs, start out by playing the songs from your set list, on an MP3 list and practice adlibbing solos. You will find that some have a natural melody that you can create and easily remember. With others, you will have to wing it. The really hard ones, that you just can't seem to get, ask them to remove for a gig or two while you work on those ones specifically.

Mainly, practice, practice, practice. But then...isn't that always the advice.
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#2131312 - 11/04/09 05:46 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: A String]
Griffinator Offline
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Believe you me, I'll be rehearsing probably 6-8 hours a day this week, more if I can get away with it.

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#2131314 - 11/04/09 06:19 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
Billster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator
I already know pentatonics, guys. I just remember sitting in an audience at watching a guy noodle through pentatonics and thinking "damn, he's ruining the song"


He was probably playing the wrong pentatonic scale. wink

A lot of guys focus on the minor pentatonic, because its a close relative of the blues scale. That's more or less okay for a I-IV-V blues progression, but if the chord progression is more advanced, then there's going to be problems.

For instance, an A minor pentatonic will be a disaster on an A major progression. For an A major progression, you can just drop to an F# minor pentatonic, which is more closely related to an A major scale.

As you get more into the chord progressions of the songs, you can start incorporating pentatonic scales based on the root of the relative Dorian or Mixolydian modes. For instance, a C minor progression can be approached with a D minor pentatonic or G minor pentatonic.

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#2131321 - 11/04/09 07:11 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Billster]
A String Administrator Offline
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You know...You got me thinking Bill. An easy way to pull this off is to use the blues scale and the minor scale. Then, he could use the major side of the relative minor for playing over major stuff and the minor scale for minor stuff. At least for now anyway...

(You probably know most of this, but I'm going to add it all in for others who may not.)

For example:

The A Minor Scale:

------------------------------5-
------------------------5-6-8---
------------------4-5-7---------
--------------5-7---------------
--------5-7-8-------------------
--5-7-8-------------------------

The note on the fifth fret, sixth string is an A. So you can tell which minor scale you are in, using that note. If you start on the scale down on the third fret, sixth string, it's a G so you are playing the G minor scale.

Now, the blues scale in A:

-----------------------5-8-
-------------------5-8-----
---------------5-7---------
-----------5-7-------------
------5-7------------------
--5-8----------------------

Now, if we apply the "relative minor" thinking, we can easily pull off a major sound:

-----------------------5-8-
-------------------5-8-----
---------------5-7---------
-----------5-7-------------
----3-5-7------------------
---------------------------

Instead of starting on the A, we are starting on the third fret, fifth string which is a C. I won't get into the semantics of it, but you can use this pattern over major sounding songs. Just make sure that the third fret, fifth string C, becomes which ever key you are playing in. So, if you have to solo over a D major, you would slide the whole scale up two frets so you are starting on the fifth fret, fifth string.

Try hitting the C power chord then sliding up into the A blues scale. You can hear that you suddenly have a major sound instead of a minor sound. You just have to adjust the notes you start and finish on. You can also play the A minor scale for C major, but for now, try messing around with the Blues scale.
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#2131350 - 11/04/09 08:22 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: A String]
Billster Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String
Now, the blues scale in A:

-----------------------5-8-
-------------------5-8-----
---------------5-7---------
-----------5-7-------------
------5-7------------------
--5-8----------------------

Now, if we apply the "relative minor" thinking, we can easily pull off a major sound:

-----------------------5-8-
-------------------5-8-----
---------------5-7---------
-----------5-7-------------
----3-5-7------------------
---------------------------

Instead of starting on the A, we are starting on the third fret, fifth string which is a C.


I would point out that the 8th fret on the sixth string is also that same "C" note (I marked them in bold) so you don't even need to move your hand position. wink

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#2131399 - 11/04/09 10:38 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Billster]
Mojo Bone Offline
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All of the above, plus you can always re-state the melody, harmonize it, do the theme and variations, and/or arpeggiate the chords. I don't know of many good repositories for stock licks, other than GP's 25 Licks You Must Know series and 50 Rockabilly/Country Licks, etc. If you have GP back issues from the 80s and 90s you're good to go, or you can search for cliches online, like the one where you do a repeating lick on the B and E strings, moving the lick up a half-step with every other rep, playing it faster and faster as you go, 'til you get to the top of the fingerboard then do an up-bend with a really wide vibrato.....I think that one's called "The Climax", so maybe save it for the end. ;-)
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#2131403 - 11/04/09 10:44 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: A String]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String
Have you seen this site?

http://chrisjuergensen.com/lessons.htm


What's that? wink thu
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#2131417 - 11/04/09 11:34 AM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
picker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator
There are definitely no shortcuts to excellence, but there are shortcuts to functionality on short notice. smile


I've not heard your playing, but from what the guys are saying, you're already functional. If you are looking at a high profile gig with critics listening critically, maybe you need more than functionality before you dive off at the deep end. More power to if that's the case.

But if you're playing bars, most people can't tell whether or not a guy noodling pentatonics over a solo break is ruining a song or not. Shucks, most folks are there to get drunk and/or get laid, and you're just background music anyway. They couldn't care less if your music is technically marvelous or crap, as long as it gets them where they want to go.

And all bar owners care about is selling drinks and not running off the regulars with a band that is too obnoxious with volume. And if they are selling enough drinks, the regulars could be dispensable. So, they couldn't care much if you're Al DiMeola or Geech Crumbo either

From what you said, it seemed like you were asking how to get to where you were more than functional. I figured you were looking for excellence. Sorry if I misunderstood.

What I say next may seem very simplistic and formulaic, but I stand by it; if you don't want to noodle, don't noodle.
Good music is a matter of the tasteful use of what you know. Until you can broaden your knowledge base, take the knowledge you have and employ it in a musical way. Think your solos out ahead of time if you don't feel like you can do it effectively off the top of your head. Compose them thoughtfully and learn them. Then they won't be just a string of notes from a pentatonic or any other scale. They'll be music.
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#2131440 - 11/04/09 01:22 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
A String Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: A String
Have you seen this site?

http://chrisjuergensen.com/lessons.htm


What's that? wink thu


I've been going over that link frequently, since you posted it Caev. Some fantastic, free stuff in there!
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#2131447 - 11/04/09 01:43 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Griffinator]
GuitarPlayerFL Offline
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I don't have a site (and I hate to admit I know this...I was 13. ), but the live version of Let Me Go Rock and Roll on Kiss Alive has Ace spitting out every Rock guitar cliche known.
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#2131475 - 11/04/09 02:57 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: GuitarPlayerFL]
Mojo Bone Offline
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Wow, can't believe I'd actually forgotten about that.
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#2131483 - 11/04/09 03:18 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: Mojo Bone]
d Offline
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Some of the advice above is good, some very good, esp. the idea A-String posits of thinking in terms of scale reductions + variations.
However, even though this band seems relaxed about the whole thing, we all know that sometimes recordings get drilled into the fans ears so that they expect particular lines to be played.

First listen to nothing else but the songs you need to learn & if they're played in a certain order, listen to them in that order. May seem unnecessary but it will help.
Play along as persistently as we read Hendrix in 1965 did, that is, constantly.
Only listen to anything else if it seems your brain's getting fried.

Next, pretend you're 17 years old & scan every source for tabs to give you some idea of what happens in the tunes you're at a loss for [don't waste time evaluating them at site; copy & paste them into some collector, such as a notepad or your mail program's compose tool & then compare them side-by-side] & watch YouTube or other vid sources to scan the parts the original bands play.

Lastly, remember that playing has to be relaxed to work as entertainment.
Do the best you can & let it be.
Oh, & don't forget that old advice: That bum note you just hit is right next to one that will sound good; slide & keep going!
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#2131494 - 11/04/09 04:28 PM Re: Crash course needed... [Re: d]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Don't make this an ordeal that it doesn't need to be; put your best foot forward, you'll do fine enough for the first gig, and just keep pluggin' away and improving the leads each week, little by little.

Solo wise, select two or three songs to try to nail or close to it (and NOT one after the other in the set-list; spread 'em out!); pick a few more to get a highlight or two for, like the beginning of a solo or another signifigant, memorable part; and adequately fake your way through the solos on all the rest. That'll get you through the first week, and on through the next and so on.
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