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#2130771 - 11/02/09 10:30 AM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: Phred]
Joe Muscara Offline
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MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 4262
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Phred
In my experience, when the singer asks to perform a certain version of the tune, all they mean is the version of the vocals. Put another way, your singer wants to do Annie's version because of the way it is sung, not because it has a harpischord part or whatever. Many singers that I know, don't give a rat's heiny of what everyone else is playing, just what they get to sing...
Great point! What the singer means is that they think they can sing along with this version. Perhaps it's in a key that suits them, or the arrangement of the vocals works for them, or maybe they don't even know the original.

So whatever you do will be fine as long as it works with them singing it that way. She may even go, "wow, that keyboard part is great" when you play the organ part, and think that you came up with it. If that happens, shut up and smile, and let her think you are this crazy great keyboard player.

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#2130837 - 11/02/09 02:59 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: RedKey]
iLaw Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 888
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: RedKey
It could be worse:
Much worse

Ouch! When I start making a list of all the bad covers I've seen/heard on YouTube, it will take a very, very long time before my list gets to either Annie Lennox or Sam Tsui.

Larry.

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#2130839 - 11/02/09 03:06 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Dave Horne Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/11/01
Posts: 8915
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Phred
In my experience, when the singer asks to perform a certain version of the tune, all they mean is the version of the vocals. Put another way, your singer wants to do Annie's version because of the way it is sung, not because it has a harpischord part or whatever. Many singers that I know, don't give a rat's heiny of what everyone else is playing, just what they get to sing...
Great point! What the singer means is that they think they can sing along with this version. Perhaps it's in a key that suits them, or the arrangement of the vocals works for them, or maybe they don't even know the original.

So whatever you do will be fine as long as it works with them singing it that way. She may even go, "wow, that keyboard part is great" when you play the organ part, and think that you came up with it. If that happens, shut up and smile, and let her think you are this crazy great keyboard player.


Exactly.
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#2130860 - 11/02/09 04:52 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: iLaw]
RedKey Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 147
Originally Posted By: iLaw
Ouch! When I start making a list of all the bad covers... it will take a very, very long time before my list gets to either Annie Lennox or Sam Tsui.
Larry.


Agreed. Both are great. I was just imagining Moonglow being asked to pull out his "Vocal Planet" sample set to play the "Dah/Doh" part. Actually, I'd pay 3 bucks to see that.
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#2130881 - 11/02/09 06:32 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: Wastrel]
EscapeRocks Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 469
Loc: Dallas, Tx
Originally Posted By: Wastrel
I've played it in C since my early teens and I'm not sure I *could* transpose it without brain damage.


Dammit!!! I'm sending you the bill for cleaning the soda off my computer keyboard!!. LOL

grin grin

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#2130884 - 11/02/09 06:44 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
EscapeRocks Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 469
Loc: Dallas, Tx
Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
Originally Posted By: StanC
Our sound guy said it was "OK" -there was guitar in the place of the organ leads. Now that's blasphemy!!

I can tell you that when I heard of the guitar version of Whiter Shade of Pale I thought... no way. But I saw it live (and I forget the 'supergroup' that played it) and it was fantastic.


Bill,,

That group was simply named HSAS, for Sammy Haggar, Neal Schon, Kenny Aaronson, and Michael Shrieve.

I saw them do this song live too in San Francisco and I thought it rocked.
While I love the original, love playing it, and it is classic, I thought Neal and Sammy did a great job on it.

Neal really pays homage to the signature organ hooks and parts.

Here's a vid of it:

HSAS: WSOP

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#2130891 - 11/02/09 07:14 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: EscapeRocks]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
"HSAS, for Sammy Haggar, Neal Schon, Kenny Aaronson, and Michael Shrieve."

Thanks for that. I'm usually not a fan of 'swinging dick' events, but that was a great show.
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#2130913 - 11/02/09 09:42 PM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: RedKey]
Dave Pierce Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 3212
Loc: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted By: RedKey
It could be worse:
Much worse


You know, I actually sorted of liked that version until about 1:30. Then, all of a sudden, I just f'ing hated it. Don't know if it got better, I decided not to waste the remaining 3 min...

--Dave
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#2131007 - 11/03/09 07:23 AM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: Dave Pierce]
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 5858
Loc: Central PA, USA
Quote:
by AnologAddict:

Don't mess with the classics
- Don't play stuff you hate just because the audience may want it
- NEVER EVER EVER play the Celine Dion version of any song, least of all "River Deep Mountain High".


1. "Don't mess with the classics".
I totally agree. Do the original organ parts. I think the statement about the singer just wants to sing the song as she heard it on that version is a great point. Just remind her that "singers sing and musicians play".

2. "Don't play stuff you hate just because the audience may want it". A great rule of thumb, but over the years I've had to bend this rule. I keep a barf bag close at hand just in case.

3. "NEVER EVER EVER play the Celine Dion version of any song, least of all "River Deep Mountain High". grin


Mike T.
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#2132284 - 11/08/09 12:04 AM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: MikeT156]
AUSSIEKEYS Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 873
Loc: the land of OZ
if the singer wants to do whiter shade of pale...make sure the singer is the keyboard player and they'll never stuff with it'


I know as I just added it to the new band I'm in ...I sing it in the band, I play it and they certainly are not going to stuff with it.

its sung in my "singing" key and played in my "playing" key which I thankfully can say is C

so all is good.....

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#2132293 - 11/08/09 02:18 AM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: MikeT156]
Analogaddict Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1712
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: MikeT156

2. "Don't play stuff you hate just because the audience may want it". A great rule of thumb, but over the years I've had to bend this rule. I keep a barf bag close at hand just in case.

Mike T.


...I'm not a stranger to bending this rule either... wink But I try to avoid songs that make me nauseus. Sometimes I'm wrong, though - we recently rehearsed UB40's "Red Red Wine", and it made me absolutely sick to my stomach, but at the gig I kind of started liking it since it really worked with the audience. Now, I almost look forward to it.
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#2132321 - 11/08/09 06:38 AM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: Analogaddict]
muzikteechur Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 156
Loc: Kittery, Maine
We recently ran into this sort of tramping on sacred ground with the Zombies' "Time of the Season."
Singer wanted to sub the second organ solo for a guitar solo. I said no. Very simple. Some things aren't negotiable.
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#2132330 - 11/08/09 07:24 AM Re: Advice needed: “Whiter Shade of Pale” blasphemy? [Re: muzikteechur]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
I think that we as musicians honor these performances more than the typical audience member, because these parts meant something to us when we were growing up and learning our instruments. The audience is very accepting, for the most part, unless it looks as thought you CAN'T play it 'right'. I play an acoustic guitar version of Little Wing, Axis:Bold as Love, Strawberry Fields, and Tomorrow Never knows. Tomorrow Never Knows is really out there, as I base it on a riff from Zepelins Misty Mountain Hop. People love it. The Hendrix stuff... drop in a couple of Hendrix signature riffs and chord forms and again, people love it. I don't and don't claim to play them note for note, but people like what I do and I often get credit for being better than I am, just because I don't do exactly what they expect.

And in terms of playing songs that you hate, again the audience is very forgiving and I've found that people will approach you, impressed with the depth of your knowledge of a band, if you play what was a earlier hit, or maybe their second-best known hit. In many cases, the audience is as tired of the SOS as you are.
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