Have you guys noticed that when people decribe themselves as "serious" musicians, they tend to spend more time acting like pedantic douchebags and less time rocking the f*ck out?

I am not a serious musician. That is all.

Most people think they are special. I hate to break it to most of them that they are rather ordinary, but someone has to do it.

Don't lie--you don't actually hate to break it to them. I think you enjoy it.

But that's a good thing--it's important to love what you do.

Curly Howard of the Three Stooges played bass and he was definitely not serious.

But everyone loved him.

Anybody that describes themselves to me as a serious musician gets (and deserves) a taint punch. I know a few of these douche bags, they can almost play, but not quite. Usually high on technique, low on feel. And they do annoying sh*t like sit around on the bus analyzing scores to symphonies they will never play OR conduct. Always managing to miss the point, they can bore you for hours about the incredibly well written 3rd french horn part to an obscure Stravinsky composition.



Don't get me started.

Hey Moe, swing it! Nyuk nyuk!
Fortunately I haven't run into too many "serious musicians", but the ones I have were real asshats.

But what about Harpo Marx? He played the harp. That has to qualify as a serious instrument!

You're a serious musician.

True, Erik. I've also noticed that people who truly are "serious" musicians NEVER refer to themselves that way.

You're a that way.

Chico Marx played piano seriously well, and he was definitely not serious.
Groucho Marx played guitar really well, and he was NEVER serious.

But DON'T NEVER accuse the Harpo man of being serious...

I remember a scene from 'Disorder in the Court' where Curly is playing URB. He was a seriously funny man.

You're disorder in the court.

I used to be a "serious" musician.

(Serious = code word for "arrogant a**hole")

Ok, let it rip. I am a serious musician!

I have to be. All the rat-bag, a$$-hat, holier-than-thou bands in my little armpit of Washington State that are looking for a bassist list "serious musician" as a pre-requisite.

I'm thinking of starting my own band and posting on CL for "non-serious musicians".

Most of the 'serious' ads around here state, "must have own equipment and car".

Erik hits the nail on the head.

If you ever answer a craiglist/paper/whatever ad where a band is looking for a musician and the phrase "we're very serious about our music," is uttered during the initial conversation, make up some excuse and get the hell out of there.

Here he is in "Disorder in the Court".


You can watch the entire film if you have 16 minutes to spare.
google video

Shirley you can't be serious?

I'll remember this thread next time someone asks for the TAB for some obscure bass line buried deep in the mix of a song someone has to learn by the next day for an audition or as the first dance for a bride and groom.

Is it me or do all the people in serious bands, who want to make it big, spend hours seriously on the music but spend no serious time on the business side?

Is that even a serious question or just a series of seriouslys?

One guy in the band does all of that stuff...

You're not suggesting that there is at least one serious musician in every successful band are you?

I'd rather just have fun.

Thanks Jeremy, and that IS said video. we have five grandkids who all loved that movie, so consequently I've seen it about fifty times in a 15 year period.

Allow me to add a corollary.

If someone else calls you a serious musician, it may well be the truth, and a compliment.

If someone refers to themselves that way, the above comments apply.

Tom

Unless they call themselves a serious musician first, in which case you probably want to ignore them, or possibly do violence to their frame.

No. Unrelated thoughts.

It seems to me that, in music (as with most of life) a person's attitude often means just as much, if not more, than their skill set. I've noticed certain behaviors manifest themselves in various musician personalities... the one that annoys me most is that whole "I'm very, very serious, special and important" thing I run into from time to time. Sometimes they're technically skilled, but often they are not. They're just barnacles on the music. They're dismissive to new ideas, but they don't have any ideas of their own. They can get the job done, but it usually happens without much flair or personality, and the performance is about as compelling as watching grass grow. But they're very serious musicians... so, you know... there's that. And you know it because they tell you this all the time.

These folks usually aren't special or important at all, and they wouldn't know how to rock if someone strapped them to a frickin' La-Z-Boy. They are basically creative buzzkills who are most likely overcompensating for a lack of confidence and ability with a know-it-all, grave and pedantic attitude.

And I think they should all attempt to copulate with lightbulbs.

My band's attitude toward playing music can be summed up by Spencer Tracey's toward acting: "Hit the marks, say the jokes, collect the check, and go home."

I'm about to be invited to join one of the aforesaid "serious" bands. All good friends of mine for years. They want to practice "at least once a week" and gig "occasionally."

I'm gonna have to break their hearts. While these guys have been sitting around playing pocket pool for years, I've been "hitting the marks," etc.

You and I would never get along on a tour bus.

I kinda understand if someone posts an ad looking for "serious musicians" when they really mean "no flakes". A better term would be "person serious about making music and performing". There is a real problem when someone classifies themselves as a "serious musician", pompous a*s would be more like it, kind of like the term "expert".

Who would I consider a serious musician? Someone that:
- has been professionally trained
- has a degree in music
- an active member of an orchestra for a serious length of time
- a member of at least 2 other working musical collaborations
- creates and performes their own music
- give instrument lessons with backing theory
- makes their entire living off their musical endeavors
- loves music and lives for the thrill of being part of it
- corrects people and downplays when they are called a "serious musician".

So, all in all, there aren't many of them.

Since I was only in an orchestra for one year (in college over 40 years ago), I guess I'm not a serious musician.
I made all the other requirements, though!

Just to clarify: I don't think there's anything wrong with taking music seriously... but come on--look at the big picture. Be a frickin' person, ya know? I think there's a degree of humor and self-knowledge that should probably accompany any artistic endeavor, and it just seems like so many of these "serious" bungholes can't quite figure this out.

No matter how serious the music is, don't we still "play" music? Think about that for a minute... we PLAY music; we don't "work" music. It's playing--we play. I'm not saying it's a game, but really, come on... while many of us are involved in music because it's a career or a calling or because it was a way to meet members of the opposite sex (or the same sex--I don't judge), the impetus to get into music was the pursuit of joy. So don't try to take the joy out of music, and I won't take a dump in your Cheerios, OK?

Paul, is that you?

This simple statement applies to so many things that are wrong with people.

Could an 10 year old boy, who just flawlessly performed a beautiful piece of classical music, on a big Steinway Concert Grand, in front of a packed house at Carnegie Hall be classified a Serious Musician? Gee, I don't know, just asking.
Rocky

Many band ads ask for serious musicians.

You guys may be serious musicians or not.

Me, I'm a timewaster...

Cheers

Graham

Better ask the kid himself.

Let's see
- still lives with parents
- no day (or any other) job
- no means of transportation
- plays on a borrowed instrument
- still watches cartoons
- never finished high school
- is attracted to under-aged girls
- most likely a whiner when things don't go his way

Sounds like half of my current friends.

Best post of the day, award ! ROTFL

For some of us this is far too close to the truth.

Why do you have to post such uncomfortable things?!?!?

My son is 24 and a guitar player.

Hmmm...I've always thought of myself as being one level below "serious," and taken compliments from those who call me serious, without having referred to myself as serious in perhaps nearly 2 decades (we can all be asshats in our 20's).

I know you all know this but I thought I'd acknowledge the elephant in the room.

"Serious" is a codeword for developing (typically young) musicians who want to do more than just get together and jam or have pointless rehearsals.

However, just because they want to do more doesn't mean they know how to do more, i.e. book shows or record CDs.

In other words, they have a goal but they don't know how to reach it. Usually it's a lack of business knowledge/experience.

So while they think they're being "serious" and having productive rehearsals they really are just spinning wheels and wasting everyone's time.

The current trend in upcoming musicians (usually singers) is to want to be discovered. They think the way to do that is to post a bunch of half-@$$ YouTube videos and then use the disclaimer that "I'm actually better than these vids". And then they sit at home and wonder why no talent agents are answering their CL ads.

I think "serious" is more about what you do than an attitude expressed.

I consider my daughter a "serious" musician -- she's in college studying to be a music teacher. That means she has to take both the music classes and the education courses -- long hours, lots of classes, and many extracurriulars required.

Her primary instrument is voice, and she plays flute and piano. She's also take classes in brass, strings and percussion. She sings in the choir and the chamber singers (tough to get into) at her college.

I see how hard she works at it. But she never calls herself a "serious" musician.

Quite funny: My wife and I were arguing (yeah, that never happens) and she was complaining that I spent too much time playing the damn bass, and practicing with the band. Of course, I replied, (with almost no laughter) "I am a SERIOUS musician!". Her response, "No you're not. Your the same asshole you've always been, just louder."
I'm not a serious musician, I'm just a loud asshole, because that's who I am. So, maybe one has to be a serious person, before they can be a "serious" musician.... Just a thought.

I'm serious about putting on a good show and playing the music the best I can but I am far from being a serious musician. I lack the discipline to be a truly serious musician. Then again I'm getting too old to be that serious. I just want to have fun.

Loud asshole=serious musician.
I think that works.

That's it, in a nutshell. Turn up the discipline, and we can be taken seriously, but life is getting too short for that, especially if you are already happy with where you are in it.

Well, you can be serious as in working hard at it and taking pride in your work, without thinking that you invented music or something like that, can't you?
Not all hard-working musicians are arrogant assholes. Some of them are goodhearted people who love to help others. Just for the record.
Me? I INVENTED MUSIC, and anyone who doesn't realize it is a major league moron, tone deaf or both......... Do any of you tone deaf major league morons know where I can get a gig? Just asking......

Since time is relative, I'd say one year could be considered "a serious lenght of time"

The serious musician is the guy who, during practice/rehearsal, plays an extra 16 bars after everyone has stopped.

Give me hilarious musicians every time.

The scenario you just offered sounds kinda hilarious to me.

How did I miss this post?

Check.
I flaked out a year early.
Check.
Check.
Nope. I suck at writing music.
Used to.
Nowadays I do...kinda sad when I think about it.
Check.
Check.

*whew* Dodged the bullet on that one. I don't want to be mistaken for someone who's serious about anything...I don't like serious people.

Davio, how about these?

No
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No
I plead the 5th
Sometimes

I'm still riding the line.

A serious musician is kinda like a really baaaad dude. They don't spend much time talking about it, they don't really feel the need.

Picker.... Agreed on this last point. Real tough guys don't need to brag about being tough--they just are. Great musicians are similar.

So if Chuck Norris were a musician he would be a serious musician NOT a Serious Musician.

This is not a serious musician. This is a guy wearing a sign that says, "Taint-smite me. Frequently."

In truth I thought "orchestra for at least a year" was going a bit far. Unless that was irony? I'm blessed to work with three guys who are serious enough to get the music right without anybody getting his panties into a bunch about it, or copping a 'tude. We laugh and joke a fair bit at rehearsals while we NAIl the sumbitch. That's all...

From the posts so far, I think 3 types of "serious" musicians have been described:

1. Those who take themselves too seriously (they think they are the s--t).

2. Those who are willing to do the necessary work to play/sing/perform well. Stuff like practice, help to carry,set up and repair equipment and make sure the non-serious lead singer or lead guitar player makes it to a gig on time.

3. Curly on double bass.

But Harpo was a hell of a harp player! [No, not blues harmonica, for those of you who don't know the difference.....]
Was he a "serious musician"? Be kind of hard to ask him, since he never spoke.......

Sounds serious to me. Here is a discussion of Harpo as harpist. Fascinating. By the way, Harpo is said to have talked a lot when not in costume. Here is an excerpt of a BBC show where he speaks in an interview.

Let's hear it for the real #2 then; all puns and alliteration deliberate.

Music Is a very serious business where I come from.
Make three mistakes in a row,you are Fired!

1. Make three hundred mistakes in a row, and you are considered AVANT-GARDE!
2. Sometimes I feel like my only mistake was taking up music in the first place. Of course, by now, it's too late.... LOL