What more do you need to know? they make the best keyboard amps, no disputing it, everything else is either too weak, too muddy, too heavy, too much money, not enough channels, etc... The only amp that can compete in my book is the Traynor and even that is too much weight to lug around when a Barbetta can do the same job minus the stereo, which is utterly useless for live use anyway.

BigJPAtton,Tarkus

My view of the Barbetta 32c Elan is actually 'mixed'!

I have a Barbetta SE32c Elan. It has a single 15" and a horn with a 4 ch mixer with one low level channel, effects loop, 3 band EQ, cooling fan inside , low and hi level outs and 450ws Bi -amped AND 36.5 lbs! A very nice package and lightweight and loud as heck!

As others have said, stick with the 2 bass speaker Barbettas. The 32c Elan has a "bass heavy" tone and a vague mid-range that I have found is hard to work with live. It's going on Ebay though I have questioned this rationale cause it's the only 15" amp I own, all my other amps have 12"s, and it's just such a great all in one package in a pinch. I have a heavy duty le Cover cover with it too! It's really not that bad with an outside EQ and BBE!
lb

I spent most of my life playing in mono, and now that I'm playing in stereo I'm not going back. Ever. It's that simple.

Attaboy.

Mono sucks grocery carts full of hot chile peppers.

Oh c'mon Tom, you gig in mono now and then, with your JBL Eon speaker. Can't be that bad, now and then........

Cheers!

Bill

Oh. I know. Music is cool. I'm just having some fun.

Aren't those peppers colorful?

It's all good.

The Pro,

Sometimes I would team the Barbetta up with a Roland KC-350 in stereo. Sometimes use the Barbetta or KC alone. I have 3 other rigs also beside these, mostly stereo.

I'm a stereo junkie myself but to be honest after a long long string of gigs in stereo (like a year and a half to 2 yrs.), I had to play in mono with a P120/Korg Cx-3, and a KC-350 alone, and EQ and BBE because of logistics, outside no less, and I was suprised at how good the single Roland KC350 sounded.

I found that in running mono the acoutic environment and space ambience actually can make mono pretty tolerable. Also how the rest of the band is sounding in that space! The piano (P120) sound was pretty good that day and I actually enjoyed it in mono. So I began using other rigs and instruments in mono for smaller gigs, and got used to mono again. I'm still a stereo junkie but I have come back a bit on how I feel about mono!
lb

I had the sona 32 and returned it, it was good but not great, keyboard amps with 15" are just too bassy, the 31 & 41 are the good stuff.







I found out the same thing, after using stereo for a while live and going back to mono I prefer mono, it sits in the mix better and besides, no audience can hear the stereo anyway so it's a lot of work for the reward(?).

At home and recording I always use stereo though.

BigJPatton,

Yep! We concur here! I like 12"'s except for certain concert circumstances that seem to be the exception to the rule in a louder band context and then they have to be really good 15's in a hi-end cabinet preferably 3 way. I don't play those shows often and most of my bands don't need that!

I actually feel the "bore" (size) of 12" speakers are kinda nice for piano and keys!

lb

I disagree with this on two levels:

First, what the audience hears is a mix of direct and indirect sound... there's what comes straight from the stage and what comes as a matter of reflection from the room. The more directions that the sounds come from the more reflections it's bound to create. I doubt that everyone in the audience hears perfect L/R stereo but I don't doubt that they hear more nuances overall from a stereo source than a mono one.

Second, when I'm on stage the most important person listening is me. What I hear directly impacts the emotional content of what I play so the better it sounds to me, the better it sounds to the audience. As long as my keys have stereo outputs, I will use stereo monitoring.

I use the Traynor K4. As other forum members know, I also use more esoteric (and expensive) stuff: Accoustic Image head + AccuGrrove cabinet, Bose PAS L1's, Motion Sound KBR3d, Sona Barbetta's (in stereo) and every other combo amp made at one time or another...

KB amps are trade offs. Traynor is pretty good, pretty loud, stereo, portable and nice looking. My Accoustic Image/AccuGroove pairing sounds BEAUTIFUL. But it is expensive, and it is mono (unless you double the price, buy 2 cabs and a stereo head - (I think either Fortner or Bryce uses this on the road)

Sona Barbettas are very nice - but midrangey. They are expensive and mono..

Motion Sound amps are cool animals. Generally, their construction and electronics are notoriously cheap (and hard to get inside to repair). But they somehow work pretty darn good.

Powered monitor (JBL Eons, etc.) sound nice. But they are mono, and have precious little sound sculpting control....

My advice - find your dominant sound (are you a piano player, organ, synth?) and find the amp that does your most dominant sound the best within all reasonable parameters.

There is no one truth. Just a lot of sensible honest compromises.

I use the Traynor K4. As other forum members know, I also use more esoteric (and expensive) stuff: Accoustic Image head + AccuGrrove cabinet, Bose PAS L1's, Motion Sound KBR3d, Sona Barbetta's (in stereo) and every other combo amp made at one time or another...

KB amps are trade offs. Traynor is pretty good, pretty loud, stereo, portable and nice looking. My Accoustic Image/AccuGroove pairing sounds BEAUTIFUL. But it is expensive, and it is mono (unless you double the price, buy 2 cabs and a stereo head - (I think either Fortner or Bryce uses this on the road)

Sona Barbettas are very nice - but midrangey. They are expensive and mono..

Motion Sound amps are cool animals. Generally, their construction and electronics are notoriously cheap (and hard to get inside to repair). But they somehow work pretty darn good.

Powered monitor (JBL Eons, etc.) sound nice. But they are mono, and have precious little sound sculpting control....

My advice - find your dominant sound (are you a piano player, organ, synth?) and find the amp that does your most dominant sound the best within all reasonable parameters.

There is no one truth. Just a lot of sensible honest compromises.

I am the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby.

he he....!

I will argue the fact along with Mr. Pro. I could give a rats arse if the audience could tell the difference between stereo and mono. I CAN and I AM THE ONE I HAVE TO PLEASE. If I get a better sound it inspires me to play better.

Now on to 15" speakers, I say to each his own. But you cannot get the growl out of 12" on a Hammond clone and you sure as heck don't get the fat bass (that my 6'10" Kawai gets) out of rompler piano with 12" speakers. Everything is subjective but don't tell me 15" are to bassy. That's simply not true. It may mean you need to lift them off the floor as has been discussed here before.

Thanks - I can appreciate your experience with the spectrum of gear available (and unavailable : getting a hands on test has been unnerving) - like I said - I play bass and keys and my dominant sound is whatever the song calls for, and in the current band, that is 1/2 bass and whatever I decide to paint the picture with.

I have to be versatile - and I won't let amp limitations get in my way - I'll keep the gutar amp handy if it fills a "niche".

<Btw - we do Funk #49 by the James Gang - I get to annoy the drummer with sampled percussion as well. >

I guess I am lucky (or cursed) from the diversity of music that I play - (I once put out a CD of Halloween sound effects... there's a Keyboard Corner CD Idea for ya! ).

Tarkus,

I'd just go to East Village pretty soon after you check out the MS. C4 is right, I did get a decent piano sound out of the KBR-3d after alot of experimenting, Stereo QG and BBE just on the piano ... The K4 is pretty solid all around!
lb

I have been using Barbettas for over 15 years. They have been rock solid and have provided me with all the volume I could ever wish for. My curent pair, which I've had for about 7 years are the 31Cs. They are super high fidelity. Everything from piano samples to huge brass synth patches and deep, deep bass synth sounds. The dual 8" speakers move a lot of air. The only thing they never did reproduce to my liking was low organ notes from my Electro. I had to do a lot of tweeking of the bass tone control to make it passable to my ears. They are pricey, but aren't all our synths and keyboards? Why on earth does anyone expect to get great sound reproduction out of inexspensive keyboard amps is beyond me......

Tarkus
Carvin has a power monster combo amp. It has 7 stereo inputs and 1000 watts. I know it's a mail order purchase, but a couple of forumites have a Carvin. Might be worth calling Carvin for more info.
K1015 - 1000 Watt 15in. Woofer and Titanium Driver
http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=K1015&CID=KBA#options

Ah - the oft overlooked Carvin!

Thanks for the link.

I'd like to get some updated opinions on keyboard amps.

One thing I haven't seen addressed: On a lot of gigs, I play left hand bass. I like it to sound like a real bass guitar, to give the band all the "oomph" of playing with a live bassist. So on some of those gigs, I carry two amps, one of which is an Ashdown MAG-C115T-300 into which I send *only* the bass guitar patch. It's 300 watts into a single 15, and it really gives the band the bottom I look for.

But I hate carrying two amps, and so for most gigs, I don't even bother. I'm wondering if any of the keyboard amps are comparably convincing as bass amps so I can get that quality out of one amp that isn't too big or heavy.

The amps that interest me most, so far, are the Traynor K4 and the Barbettas.

I like that the Traynor has some stereo-ness to it. I saw where BigJPatton called the stereo useless, but although I haven't tried it, The Pro's response to that sounds valid. It may not be as good as two separate cabinets, but since I usually won't bring two cabs regardless, the question is only whether it is better than one mono cabinet, and it sounds like it might be.

Further, one of my main sounds is Hammond simulation, and I suspect the leslie effect will be much better in a stereo speaker like the Traynor. In fact, the Traynor's two close stereo speakers are probably about the same distance from each other as the two sides of a rotary horn are. So that amount of stereo separation might add that much more realism to that effect. I also like the idea of the tube channel of the Traynor, again, to help get more convincing Hammond tonalities.

So my main question about the Traynor is, does it have the bass response to really simulate a bass guitar at significant volume levels (comparable to a real bassist playing with a live rock drummer)? Other than that, my only concern about it is that it weighs a bit more than I'd like it to.

The Barbettas are lighter (some of them by quite a bit). I don't know if their ability to function as a bass amp are better, worse, or comparable to the Traynor, any thoughts? If it were a good enough bass amp, and substantially lighter, I might be willing to give up the stereo and tube of the Traynor.

I saw someone mention an JBL 15" Eon G2. I've tried that... it doesn't really give me the bass I want. When you start to push it, it has a funny high pitch thing that happens, that I'm not sure how to describe, but maybe some of you have heard it and know what I mean?

I think a dedicate bass amp makes a difference.

I am using a Barbetta Sona 41 (2 by 10) in three piece rehearsal with drummer and guitar, and I am kicking bass with it. The drummer is getting plenty of smooth clean bottom to play against ... and he is not a soft drummer.

I will likely add a bass combo at some point though ... it just seems more open sounding when you have a separate bass source.

I have a Barbetta Sona 31c that I used to use live but now use a Traynor K4.

The Barbetta is very unidirectional, so if you're using it for monitoring yourself I think it can be OK, but it lacks the power and sound spread to compete with drums and stuff or to address an audience, and it sounds terrible for acoustic piano, but surprisingly it sounds better than my K4 for organs and electric pianos, probably because it has to be cranked to be heard well and it breaks up a bit, giving it a growl, I still use it for rehearsal and always enjoy my organs tones through it.

I can't recommend it for gigs though because of the issues above, I would go with a Traynor.

For the price point, I found the K4 to be very good. Yes it has enough oomph to carry the bottom end with conviction.

As to the stereo observations...I think most of that debate is pretty goofy. Do you really think more than 2% of a listening audience can tell you are in stereo from 20 feet away regardless of how far apart your speakers are? The only ones who could really make the distinction between combo in stereo and set up with greater separation would be the musicians you are playing with (if you aren't solo) in a rehearsal studio. Other than that it gets lost in the wash.

All that being said, I've used the K4 at an outdoor gig (band environment) and it held its own just fine, in fact the drummer made me turn it down.

So for me, if you're spending about $700 (US), I'd go K4. If you have $1500 to spare, then absolutely go JBL or the like. Better yet, get both....the K4 is very nice and portable for smaller venues.

It also depends on the main sounds you'll be using. 15" speakers are better if you need more bass. 12's and 10's are actually truer sounding for piano sounds.

I've owned the Traynor K4 and the Motion Sound. I no longer use KB amps, and still recommend separate cabinets like the 2 Accugrooves I had, but...

My impression was Motion Sound is a warmer, woodlike sound and has much better stereo for a single cabinet. The Traynor is a well made amp, louder and cleaner, but not as satisfying for stereo piano sounds. Both are good KB amps, but if it were my choice of those two, I'd go with the 200.

Had one for a short while. The original. Very muddy. Don't bother.

I know it's not for you Tarkus but I love my little Roland AC90 stereo amp. Nice clean uncolored sound in an inexpensive, lightweight package.

Busch.

Accugrooves....loved them but it was too much for me to carry.

Spec wise, I've found that the K4 was not as portable as the KP500sn that I use. I found the 10 lbs makes a huge difference (57 vs. 47 lbs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-UegJzKKo8&feature=related

I also play LH organ bass and I never turn the bass all the way up.

I think you might get more of a stereo sound out of the Motion Sound because of the angles of the cabinet. A mutual friend has the K4 and Motion sound KP200 and says that the KP has much more of a stereo effect than the K4.

How is the debate goofy? My keyboard has a stereo sample for the acoustic piano. The sound that I hear influences how I play. When I play that keyboard through a single amp in mono, I can't play my acoustic piano sample; it sounds that bad to me. I have a similar problem when the balance is bad and I can't hear other musicians, can't hear myself, etc. Sound quality matters to me, but then I'm just kind of a goofy guy.

Busch,

Could you gig with the AC90 in an outdoor setting without going through a PA? Just curious. I just had a gig outdoor with my trio and we just went without a PA (although we had one set up for the mic/announcements). I used my K4 and it is loud enough for that setting.

aL

Tough call. I would think it would pump it out. I am using it in a quiet restaurant setting and it's more than enough (no live drums though). I feed it a strong signal from the TC Electronic Konnekt and only run on a volume setting of 2. I run my keys and backing drums through it.

Guitar Center has them for $499 through the end of the month. You should try one out and see if it works out for you.

Busch.