A major scale played in the usual way goes like this:


---------------------------2-3--
-----------------------3-5------
-----------------2-4-5----------
-----------2-4-5----------------
-----2-3-5----------------------
-3-5----------------------------


That's two octaves. But it's also possible to add a third octave by slanting the scale down the neck, like this:


------------------------------------------10-12-14-15-
-------------------------------8-10-12-13-------------
------------------------7-9-11------------------------
---------------5-7-9-10-------------------------------
---------5-7-9----------------------------------------
-3-5-7-8----------------------------------------------


I tried playing that, and while it can be done, it's pretty darn difficult because of the stretching and thumb repositioning. What have I stumbled on here, an oddball bit of theory or a very advanced technique?

The "theory" is the same, but the latter fingering could allow you to do things that suit given passages and ideas better than the previous one. Dissect, mix-and-match, utilize and assimilate!

Anytime that you explore and map out possible fingerings and voicings on the fretboard, it's a good thing.

hey TS, have you ever heard of Segovia scales? Theyre scales Segovia used for teaching that provided 2-4 octave versions of scales, used to help students achieve good tone at any portion of the fretboard on classical guitars. You should look into that because it would fit the hand better than some of the jumps you're putting there.

Two big things guitarists need to worry about when attempting long linear stuff like this is tone (location/string wise) and ergonomics. That being said, you should be very specific on which finger goes to which fret and where jumps occur, as it will make you a more secure and fundamentally-pronounced guitarist. Then after this, make sure that the scale is completely legato (completely flowing both up and down). If you want a link to the segovia scales, ill provide one.

Do a lot of one-string-playing.

Then doing position shifts in the middle of more conventional scale patterns will seem a lot easier.

Yes, please and thank-you!

Commence and break out with the Segovian scalar linkage!

"Police!"

"Spank-you!"

"You're talcumed!"

How 'bout this:

---------------------------------5-7-8---10-12-14-15-
--------------------------5-7-8--------------
-------------------4-5-7--------------------------
-------------4-5-7-----------------------------------
-------3-5-7------------------------------------------
-3-5-7------------------------------------------------

The fingerings repeat and they're only 3 notes per string, so it's a bit friendlier. HOWEVER, to get the full three octs we still need to shift for the last upper tetrachord, which is obviously less friendly as you can see. Any other ideas?

Richard Lloyd had this scale as part of the lessons he put up on his website. He says as a kid in NYC in the late '60s he learned scales out of a book, but being able to watch people like Hendrix and the great guitarists close up when they'd play he noticed they all played scales and runs vertically, just the way you stumbled onto, and that's part of the reason they sounded better than the average "box position" players... and they had longer reach than normal. He seems to have revised the lessons on the site, but I remember doing the exercises (and being a fan of he and Tom Verlaine and Television I'd picked up the habit of playing vertically somewhat already) and my fingers making cracking noises from being stretched out like that...

http://www.richardlloyd.com/lessons/index.htm

the one I remember from Lloyd, that I practice and use a lot is:

----------------------------------------------------------14-15-
---------------------------------------------12-13-15-17--------
--------------------------------9-11-12-14---------------------
--------------------7-9-10-12----------------------------------
---------5-7-9-10----------------------------------------------
-3-5-7-8-------------------------------------------------------

Hot damn!

One of the lessons on Richard Lloyd's website answers the question I had months back about why the guitar is not tuned in straight fourths.

Section "Lessons", subsection "Why Is The Guitar Tuned Like That?" (There's no direct link I can see.)

Not sure he's right mind you -- this might be on the those just-so questions, like how the zebra got his stripes. But I'll take one explanation over zero.

-------------------------------------12-14-15-------------------
------------------------------12-13-15--------------------------
----------------------11--12-14---------------------------------
-----------------12--14---------------------------------------
--------12--14--15----------------------------------------------
12-14-15--------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------12-15-----------------------------
--------------------------12-15----------------------------------
------------------12-14-15---------------------------------------
-------------12-14-----------------------------------------------
-----12-13-14----------------------------------------------------
12-15------------------------------------------------------------


nothing wrong with a box now and then...switch between the two and play in Em or G even though it's just a couple of octaves...you may not need 3....

http://chordmelody.org/pdf/Segovia%20Scales/ there ya go. The tabs underneath aren't tabs, but which finger you use for the note. If you guys want me to tab out a specific scale, i'd be more than happy to do so, just let me know which one. That being said, make sure you pay attention to using the right finger and making sure it flows seamlessly

Cool, thanks, Grey'!

I take it that the "tab" lines still refer to their corresponding strings- the bottom being the 6th/"Low-E", top being the 1st/"High-E"- correct?

And that the numbers displayed on those refer to fretting-hand fingers- "1" being the 1st/"index", etc.- and NOT representing frets, as is much more usually seen- correct?

I noticed- or should I say, I n ticed- that the pdf for the EMaj-C#m scale fingerings is missing the letter "O" all over the place! Just thought I'd mention that, in case anybody was confused (as I was) over what the heck "Diat nic Maj r & Min r Scales" for the "AC USTIC GUITAR" were...

Thanks again- I'm not criticizing, just asking and pointing out!

Regarding that O thing, I dont see what you're saying. I can see all the O's on each pdf. Regarding the correspondence between strings and tablines, yes you are correct.



I'm having trouble understand what you mean by this. If you're asking if this type of tab is normally seen, it's not. Normally, when music notation is done in the normal format, it will tell you what finger by having the numbers for the left hand fingers (1, 2, 3, or 4 (or T)) adjacent to each notehead. Also, with regards to determining what string something's on, sheet music will have the string number (1 through 6) either directly above or below the note inside a circle.

http://www.free-scores.com/download-sheet-music.php?pdf=17826#

^here's a good example of such. In this piece by Napoleon Coste (which was a prominent 7 string player in his day btw! Caevan should understand why I'm referencing this), we see in the first measure that 4 with a circle around it. That means all of that part is on the 4th/D string. All the normal numbers next to noteheads refer to left hand fingers.

I'm referring to the way that the "tab"- that isn't quite typical tab- shown beneath the notation on each those PDF's shows finger-numbers (instead of fret numbers) on six lines that are normally representing the strings of the guitar (in guitar tablature). It appears on a quick perusal that they do still correspond to the strings, 6 through 1, from the lowest to the highest. I wondered if I was correct in thinking that, if that would consistently be the case there.

(FWIW) Weird; every time I load the pdf for the EMaj-C#m scale fingerings, it briefly shows the "O's", but then they all wink out across the entire 'page. Randomly selecting a few of the others shows no such oddities.

I don't play that diatonic shape at 3, but certainly starting at 10. Also, that's the way I play Pentatonic and blues riffs past 9.

Dm Blues

E----------------------------------------------16-17-20-22
B-------------------------------------15-18-20------------
G----------------------------13-14-17---------------------
D-------------------12-15-17------------------------------
A----------11-12-15---------------------------------------
E-10-13-15------------------------------------------------

That's kid of a cool pattern because it accentuates the chromatic note on the A, G and high E.

Nice topic and some new things for me to try / learn. I've found I'll practice scales longer if I add some long echo effects while I play, makes it more interesting like I'm playing a solo in front of 50,000 adoring fans....oh time to wake up Lefty! Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
L.B.

Hehhehh! Hey, not only that, but you can time the delay so that it provides a rhythmic interaction between your picked notes and the echo repeats. Makes it more interesting, and makes it as much a rhythm/tempo sharpening exercise, as well!

I like to lay a few chords on the looper and then just take off on it...but then I find myself missing lunch, the noon news, etc. as I get into it for about an hour or two or...go from a minor progression to something jazzy and there goes another hour (beware of loopers)...

LMAO!!!!!!!

Totally....

Loopers eat time, in more ways than one...

They are a great way to practice scales, leads, write, record, etc...but yep, they can eat time in more ways than one...but sometimes that's a good thing...just have to keep track of your practice time if you get carried away...

I never really spent much time on scale practice for itself but I did find playing diminished lines across the fretboard interesting (it started with a particular composition & how best to play a line).

Ex: 1/ open postition

E= 0--3
B= --2
G= 0--3
D= ---3
A= -1--4
E= 0--3
(gotta love them open strings!)

Ex: 2/ along the neck, 2 notes per string

E= ------6--9
B= -----5--8
G= ---3--6
D= --2--5
A= -1--4
E= 0--3

Or 3 notes per string
(a great galloping exercise)
[*]
E= --------------------------19--22 [& for real champions, bend up to g ! ]
B= --------------------17--18--21
G= -------------12--15--18
D= --------8--11--14
A= ----4--7--10
E= 0--3--6

Each takes one to a completely different area...which also takes us to a different area, i.e., the variant tones one gets when playing the same note on different strings, something to consider along with the geography.

[* Sharp eyes may notice flaws in this diagram.
Mea culpa !
It has been left intact, flawed tough it be, so that the following post from GreySeraph will maintain context.
The corrected version is below.]

how on earth are you gonna bend up to a G from the 22nd fret?

Well, I did say it was for real champions, didn't I ?

Actually you're quite correct, GS, I made a mistake in transcription...& a couple other mistakes as well, starting with including the 19th & 22nd frets on the 1st string at all (much less confuse the 22nd & 24th frets) !
How did my chart go from the 17th to the 18th & then 21st frets for the 2nd string ? [That's the start of the problem.]
Sheesh!

Of course here's what it should've looked like:

E= -----------------------18--21 [& for real champions, hit 22 & bend up to e !]
B= --------------------17--20
G= -------------12--15--18
D= --------8--11--14
A= ----4--7--10
E= 0--3--6

Thanks for reminding me to always check my work before turning it in !