I just found out that Gelb Music in San Mateo CA has no plans to carry the PC3 due to floor space, but does carry the PC3-61 (and the PC3X, currently out of stock).

I visit SoCal once or twice a year, and other areas of Northern California are doable as day trips from here.

So I'm wondering if anyone knows of a store that carries the 76-key version.

I'm not interested in the synth-action 61-key version and it's barely cheaper than the PC3 anyway.

I'm intrigued by the semi-weighted action of the PC3, and hope I could compare it to the weighted action of the PC3X and have an S90 or MOTIF series 88-board for immediate context (vs. depending on tactile memories).

I know we have a few happy owners on this forum, but one really has to try things oneself to make final decisions.

It is a competitively priced board, often coming in at under $2000. I've even seen some good deals on PC3X's of late.

Depending on how the final price of the S70 XS and S90 XS play out, the Kurzweil PC3 series may become my only real contender for a stage-worthy 88-key board (as mentioned in other threads, my Studiologic VMK188plus does not past muster as a gigging instrument, due to AC adapter, no MIDI zones, and other factors).

its a sad state of affairs in the SF Bay Area for keyboard shopping

I use to give Gelb all my business but then they got squirelly on price.

I use a store in Wisconsin these days.

Hi Mark,

My apologies if you've done this.
Kurzweil Music Systems have a list of dealers on there website. You just need to punch in your area.

>>> Kurzweil Product Dealers <<<

I hope its vaguely up to date . The NEWS page is certainly not.

Mark, if you find a dealer let me know too. I'm in the SF Bay Area too and have been disappointed by the absence of any PC3 to try.

Well, I was too busy at work today to watch eBay, after setting up a few PC3 and PC3X item watches last night, and let a PC3X slip by for only $820!

I think it went cheap because the guy had a zero rating (either a newbie or someone otherwise not proven to be trusted yet).

Oh, the PC3X is still in stock at Leo's Pro Audio in Oakland CA the last I checked. I'm hoping they'll eventually stock the LE edition and maybe a few other variants. In the past, they did a pretty good job of carrying most or all of the full line.

There has been someone on EBay for a couple of weeks claiming to be from Bangkok, listing PC3, PC3X, maybe other stuff. Starting bid way way low, supposedly new and to be shipped from the U.S. Smelled like scam to me - I have turned scams over to EBay before when there was soemthing in the listing like an external email address needed to purchase. I don't think you really missed out.
Sweetwater matched price on the B-stock PC3 that I bought about 3 months ago with an EBay listing. Find a VALID listing - something that doesn't look like a scam - and give it a try. Unit arrived in perfect condition, now is my "go-to" gigging board, and the 3X stays in the studio. I just ordered another 2-tier stand for gigging with it and the 2661.

On-topic suggestion: ivorycj frequents this forum - he probably has contacts to find out where there is a stocking dealer in CA.

Mark, I tried the pc3x at gelb and called leo's about the pc3 months ago. At the time, they said they didn't carry it.

For some reason that link for dealers didn't light up when I viewed the forum on Firefox (Windows) from work earlier today.

I clicked on it just now, and it's clearly a four-year old list, as half of the stores are out of business, but I didn't know Haight-Ashbury had been a Kurzweil dealer, so I'll give them a call. It can't hurt.

Leo's Pro Audio in Oakland still has their floor model of the PC3X in stock, and I gave it a ninety minute whirl this morning, followed by half an hour or so on the MOTIF XS 8 as a sanity check.

I'm still going to call other local stores to see if anyone has the 76-key PC3 to try, but I find the PC3X just feels right to me, as a good balance between the needs of piano playing, organ playing, and both acoustic samples and synth sounds. It has good escapement -- better than the MOTIF's (though the latter's is passable and livable). I'll play my VMK again when I get home.

Kurzweil seems to be getting into more stores and e-stores at this point in time. Nova Musik now carries them, as of a couple of months ago. I don't know if it would be a good thing or a bad thing if they made their way back into Guitar Centre.

That was my feeling as well. The feel is a good compromise for someone who primarily wants to play piano/EP sounds but still light enough to be pushed into service for synth and organ sounds. None of the sounds are of the "blow you away" kind, but they are very playable. The PC3X is the most "organic" digital keyboard I've played. I still find it very enjoyable to play after owning it for 4 months.

Today I went to Gelb to play the PC3x and PC3 61. The guy at there told me the PC3 61 had the same action as the PC3 but when I just checked the website, I found out that it did not.

I didn't like the PC3-61 action at all and felt that the Nord Electro 3 they had just gotten in had a better action.

I played w/ the PC3x a lot and found it to be really nice. I AB'd it to a CP33. I'm more used to the heavier action on the 33 but the 3x offered a lot more.

Prices at Gelb seemed to be high. PC3x was $2995 (first quote) and $1995 for the Electro 3.

BTW, They also had an sp3x which I didn't find inspiring to play at all.

Bhodaway10, glad that you too got a chance to try the PC3 series today, and in comparison to stuff you know.

This is OT, but I'm curious whether NE3 has same keybed as NE2 -- especially as you preferred it to PC3-61. I have no interest in PC3-61, but am just curious, as I always like to know what's what with these keyboard manufacturers and their keybeds (often Fatar).

The SP3X didn't inspire me either; nor have any digital pianos from any manufacturer, as they seem to make too many compromises to be good bang for buck. Geesh, most of them use wall warts!

Mark, I've played the Electro 2 many times. I've always thought it's keybed was choppy and very plastic feeling. I would have never wanted to play it's acoustic piano because it always sounded as if it had a weird metallic/electric sound to it. Although, for organ, EP, and clav, it's always been really good.

At first listen, I didn't love the Electro 3 acoustic piano. I definitely didn't compare to the PC3x/cp33 samples. However, I noticed it was running through just one speaker so I put it in mono. I actually liked the sound and I was able to play some jazz standards and thought I could actually play this on a gig. The keybed is a little tighter than the Electro 2.

In the end, I think the electro 3 is too $$ right now for what it does and for what I need.

BTW, the Yamaha CP33 is pretty affordable - probably in the $900 range! However, it has just a good acoustic piano and a so-so EP compared to the PC3x or the electro.

I actually think the PC3's semi-weight might be a really nice compromise to the PC3x.

I'm still going to call those other area stores to see if anyone has the PC3 76-key model in stock. Hopefully tomorrow.

Mark, based on your preference for the PC3X and VMK actions (both of which I like), I would be surprised if you like the PC3 action, especially if playing piano on it is primary for you. I found the keys to spring back in a way that was very unpleasant, requiring even more force to hold down than on most weighted 88 boards. I liken it to the Electro action: OK for organ and synth sounds, but not enjoyable at all for piano and electric piano sounds.

I did play the VMK for a few hours last night, for a sanity check, and it's definitely a more professional action than the PC3X, but not so much so that it's worth keeping in favour of the PC3X.

The MIDI implementation in the VMK series is a PITA and it takes some effort to get it to speak to my computer plug-ins properly; I don't have this problem with my "real" keyboards. :-) I'm rather tired of MIDI-only devices that aren't designed as "instruments".

Thanks for the feedback on the PC3 action -- that seals the deal. It's just a waiting game now on the PC3LE and making sure I don't consider it crippled (I do like the finger-sized drum pads but that's not a deal-breaker). Dave Wesier said he was fairly sure it would share the TP40L(?) action of the PC3X.

Good thing I didn't go for any of those eBay auctions; as suspected, the seller of the lower-priced units was a scammer, and claims have been filed against him with PayPal and eBay.

Just as a final sanity check, I should find out which Fatar semi-weighted action is being used in the PC3, and what other keyboards use that action (in case I can't find a PC3 in stock anywhere).

It's always best to try for oneself, and playing the PC3X again this morning reminded me that the balanced hammer action is a bit of a distraction for serious piano playing, so I may find that I keep the VMK188plus for the home after all.

For the sake of other SF Bay Area residents, here is the low-down on local coverage for Kurzweil as it stands today:

Most of the listed dealers on their website are out of business. A couple of others have access to order Kurzweil but don't have any in stock. Of those that do have stock at hand:

1. Santa Rosa Music Centre (707/566-0477) has a PC3X
2. Leo's Pro Audio (Oakland) (510/652-1553) has a PC3X
3. Gelb Music (Redwood City) (650/365-8878) has a PC3X and PC361

No one has a PC3 in stock. The PC361 is synth action; whereas the PC3 has semi-weighted action (Dave Weiser announced both the 61-note and 76-note versions of the upcoming PC3LE will use the semi-weighted action, however).

I hope this helps some people on this forum.

Last night I played the VMK188plus for a good long time, and felt the differences between that and the TP/40L action in the PC3X were minimal after all, that the graded action of the VMK188plus isn't quite smoothly graded enough to be like a real piano, and that the springier action of the TP40L will be better as a compromise for sounds across the spectrum anyway.

The 76-key PC3 uses the Fatar TP/8 action, which I think is a good compromise in the semi-weighted category, but having diminished the differential between the VMK series (TP/40GH action, I think) and the PC3X (TP/40L), think I'll stick with the PC3X vs. PC3 in spite of the easier load-in of the latter for cars/gigs.

But I'll check around first to see what else uses the TP/8.

Here's the spec page, from which you can easily traverse to the other Fatar actions:

http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_8PIANO.htm

I think the Prophet '08 uses a lighter semi-weighted action than the TP/8 but will check. It's just so time-consuming to track down all of those old notes at this point.

Apparently, other Kurzweil keyboards like SP-series use TP8, so that settles that question.

Also, I have confirmed that the differences between VMK188plus and PC3X keybed are minute. Slightly lighter weight, which is actually a good thing, and balanced vs. graded. But VMK only has four grading zones anyway; it isn't gradual, which reinforces my own perception. I think these two keybeds play very similarly.

For synth action, some say the Prophet '08 uses Chinese-made action (CME?) and that most other high-end synths use the same Fatar action (TP/9?) that is semi-weighted vs. unweighted, so it's good the 61-note PC3LE will use semi-weighted like the 76-key version as that puts it more in league with other top synths.

Does the nord stage use the fatar action? I played a stage 88 yesterday and it didn't feel weighted at all.

I had a Prophet 5 and it's action was the same as the Mini Moog and Voyager I had. I'm close to Houston,TX and in the market for a PC3X. They have them here I just have not been to the stores yet. Have listened to them plenty on YouTube though, I think they sound great.
You gents/women are a lot of help in this matter.

Haight Ashbury had nothing in the Kurzweil line about a month ago. And there was no indication that this would improve.

This thread is too timely. I have been looking to try out the PC3 76 myself for about a month or more. No one around here seems the least bit inclined to carry this item. I'm trying to read between the lines here.
I worked in retail many years ago. And the merchandising nightmare that always pissed me off was people coming into our demo stocked store, asking questions for an hour or so, so they could go buy the product mail-order for a price that would run us out of business.
Get this, Apple had this Try-a-Mac deal when the macs first came out. These #$%^wads from Hillsbourgh would come in the store to claim a a boxed up mac system to try out for the weekend. This way they had something to put under the Christmas Tree. They would then bring the slightly used merch back, as they were going to buy the real deal from the Stanford or USC bookstore and get the student discount, that we could not of course offer. And we ended up with scuffed up products. It was not a sustainable business model
Slightly off topic but I will bring it back soon.
I'm thinking the Gelbs, etc. can't and don't stock the hot items just so buyers can try them out before they buy the product online somewhere for much less. They pay real money and carrying costs to put a product on the floor. Then they hope that any one who cares to come in and bang away does not damage the goods. Have you seen the Nord demos in GC San Francisco? All the boards are all missing knobs? And something like a keyboard can turn obsolete in a fortnight the way technology marches along. I think this SF bay area is hard on Retailers. Black Market Music left the City years ago, the story was that nobody wanted to pay them a fair price for anything. Computers and Music a great store, very knowledgeable people, long gone.
Conclusion: I know everyone wants the best price, but how does one put a value on the local community?
I ramble. Peace out.

Several stores have the Kurzweil SP2 and/or SP3. If we can confirm that uses the Fatar TP/8 keybed, then we can effectively try the PC3 76-key model indirectly (though the piano sound will be different and might affect perception of the keybed).