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#2091574 - 06/29/09 07:59 PM cleaning vintage Gretsch
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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I know about Gibsons and Fenders, but given the fragle state of vintage Gretsch binding and I don't know what kind of varnish, how does one clean these old instruments without causing damage? The '67 Gretsch that I got is pretty filthy, the binding is all yellowed, cracked, and filled with grime; and the space under the pickguard looks like the space beneath my college dorm room bed. The metal on the pickups is grimy and encrusted, and the Bigsby needs a good cleaning.
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#2091579 - 06/29/09 08:32 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
The metal on the pickups is grimy and encrusted, and the Bigsby needs a good cleaning.


With corroded metal parts I remove & hand clean them with brass polish on a soft rag. If it's really rusty, some light steel wool can burrow through the grime. With the binding I'd start with just a moist rag to see if the glue is holding. If it seems to be hanging together add a bit of liquid detergent, though I find just the lightly dampened towel gets all but the most persistent dirt. I also like lemon oil on rosewood fretboards.
I'll be going through this whole cleaning process soon on a 60's Framus archtop that a client traded to me for some studio time.

Scott Fraser

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#2091619 - 06/30/09 01:46 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Scott Fraser]
GeoffB Online   content
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As above, and gently!!!

Health to play it Bill!!!

G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

Frank M:Back in the day you could have a trio with two people.

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#2091644 - 06/30/09 05:55 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: GeoffB]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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Scott,

Yeah, I've always used lemon oil on my fretboards. Love the stuff, and it cleans very well. It is the binding and varnish that I am most worried about.. even too much water could get behind, swell the wood, and there's trouble. Guess I'll just have to be real careful. I was hoping that something like naptha would be a better choice, less likely to get down into the wood. Oh well, just got to be careful. And the Bigsby. Someone mentioned a gun polish for aluminum, but I've lost the reference.

Geoff..

Yeah, going in for another surgery on Tuesday next. My hands, arms and shoulders are pretty messed up between the nerve, ligament, and arthritis damage but I have forced myself to play. I've continued to use the little finger that they wanted to fuse and, though not comfortable, certainly it is usable. Trying hard to be 'normal' and do normal things, and I've gotten back more than anyone expected. Now the knee (again...). Thanks, and I've decided that I'm gonna be fine, so I've stopped listening to them.

Bill
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2091659 - 06/30/09 06:44 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Fumblyfingers Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
Trying hard to be 'normal' and do normal things, and I've gotten back more than anyone expected...... I've decided that I'm gonna be fine, so I've stopped listening to them.


Yes!!! Now you're talking! Having a great positive mental attitude is more than 1/2 the battle and will really help as far as recovery. Keep that going Bill.

All the best with the upcoming surgery.

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#2091719 - 06/30/09 09:39 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1793
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
Scott,
Yeah, I've always used lemon oil on my fretboards. Love the stuff, and it cleans very well.


It cleans as well as conditions. The fretboard feels a little smoother & faster after a lemon oil cleaning.

Quote:
It is the binding and varnish that I am most worried about.. even too much water could get behind, swell the wood, and there's trouble.


A damp cloth, rather than one wet enough to shed water, is what I've always used, although none of my guitars have a truly cracked finish. Even a 1920's Washburn doesn't appear like there are varnish cracks that would allow water penetration. Just crazing.

Quote:
Guess I'll just have to be real careful. I was hoping that something like naptha would be a better choice, less likely to get down into the wood. Oh well, just got to be careful.


Isn't naptha a solvent? I would think that might dissolve the varnish, whereas water (with or without a bit of detergent) would be repelled by varnish.

Scott Fraser

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#2091767 - 06/30/09 11:02 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Scott Fraser]
Mudcat Offline
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Bill,
Be careful cleaning the binding. Old Gretcsh guitars are notorius for having the binding crack and fall off.

I've been lucky with mine. It's pretty yellowed but thankfully no significant cracking.

Tracy
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#2091773 - 06/30/09 11:14 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Mudcat]
Rootstonian Offline
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Registered: 02/20/06
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Would love to see some "before and after" pictures if possible.

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#2091801 - 06/30/09 12:31 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Rootstonian]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Originally Posted By: Rootstonian
Would love to see some "before and after" pictures if possible.












so far just used a little Formsbys Almond Oil. Think I'll do a complete dismantle/clean.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2091822 - 06/30/09 01:22 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1793
Loc: Los Angeles
My word! That's just plain beautiful. Congrats!

Scott Fraser

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#2091859 - 06/30/09 02:16 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Scott Fraser]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
My word! That's just plain beautiful. Congrats!

Scott Fraser


Thanks Scott.

It has cosmetic issues... There is a half inch piece of binding missing from the neck near the highest fret, the back has been well scratched by someones belt buckle, and its got dings and checks from its age. The binding is cracked in many places but not lifting... may only be held on by the varnish that has also yellowed and cracked. The jack plate is non-original and one of the switches is missing it's screw-cap.

But simply wiping it vigorously with almond oil made quite a difference.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2091877 - 06/30/09 02:35 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
GeoffB Online   content
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Registered: 11/05/04
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That's just lovely!!

smile

G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

Frank M:Back in the day you could have a trio with two people.

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#2091943 - 06/30/09 06:09 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1793
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
, the back has been well scratched by someones belt buckle,


I've never understood this. How anybody can own a beautiful instrument & then scratch the %#@& out of it with their belt buckle is just beyond me. In high school it used to a sign of uber-coolness to wear your belt buckle one notch over to the left, to show that you played guitar. Did everybody else forget to do this when strapping on their beautiful Gretsches?

Scott Fraser

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#2091959 - 06/30/09 07:12 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Sweet! The back of that neck looks sooo inviting... ! Those are the single-coil HiLo'Tron pickups, right?

And here's to successful surgery, and a speedy and excellent recovery, too, Bill!

When I cleaned up, restrung and set-up an old '52 Les Paul goldtop for a friend a few years back- AGES of grime!- I had good luck using "Trick" guitar cleaner/polish, sprayed lightly on a soft all-cotton cloth, followed by careful application of GHS Guitar Gloss cleaner/polish. The latter, a cream, goes on wet, and is then left to soak up surface crud and oil, etc. and then dry into a soft, powdery consistency, which is then buffed off.

Because of the way it dries to a soft powder, you want to keep from getting it on open-pored/bare wood like rosewood or ebony, and out of overly cracked areas of finish where it might get underneath and prove stubborn to remove. As I said, though, with a little care I had great luck using these on that old '52 goldtop. The back of the neck felt sooo much better afterward!

I also got excellent results using the GHS Guitar Gloss to remove decades of crud AND whatever goopy furniture-polish or whatever else had been applied over the years, from an early '60s Silvertone "Classical". It took about five or six passes to remove said "goop"- it was thick, waxy and and sticky!- but in the end, the owner was genuinely shocked at the difference, exclaiming "Oh, my Gosh, HOW did you get it so nice and CLEAN like that?!" grin She thought that I had sanded it down and applied some new finish or something...

Besides the aforementioned crud and goop, it had been repaired after being accidentally smashed on a stage when someone tripped and fell with it; the repair of the wood was sturdy enough, but absolutely NO attempt had been made to repair the finish over large areas of patchily exposed surface on the sides. This had been exacerbated by player-wear over the decades, as well. I was pleasantly surprised that the polish/cleaner gave me no troubles in those areas!
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#2091999 - 06/30/09 11:22 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 629
Loc: Hwy 49, California
I like Dunlop 65, and on old beauties like my dad's gibson, I would spray the rag instead of the guitar and then use the karate kid method wipe on...wipe off...don't know about the dismantle and clean idea, but I know you're talented and know what you're doing...those old hippy belt buckles reeked havic on the backs of many a fine guitar...I always wore a shirt over mine or took the belt off..the old man would have killed me if I scratched his baby...cool chet special...

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#2092028 - 07/01/09 05:41 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Scott Fraser]
Rootstonian Offline
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Registered: 02/20/06
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Yeah, no kidding! I like it just the way it is smile

Good trade indeed...beautiful instrument!!

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#2092048 - 07/01/09 06:19 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Rootstonian]
Mudcat Offline
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Registered: 07/20/01
Posts: 3213
Loc: Twangtown, USA
Nice!

Are you considering having the missing binding replaced?
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#2092056 - 07/01/09 06:32 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Mudcat]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: Mudcat
Nice!

Are you considering having the missing binding replaced?


I'm notsure. I'll take it to the luthier who works on my guitars and let him tell me what is best. I would like to find a source for the jackplate and missing switch handle though. (and he might be able to source them for me.)

No, I just want to clean it up. Still trying to decide upon a polish for the Bigsby, which is dull and ugly looking.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2092065 - 07/01/09 07:09 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Mudcat Offline
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Registered: 07/20/01
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Here's a good source for Gretsch hardware: http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoast/gretsch/parts.html

They stock the switch knobs but I don't think they have the jackplate. Make sure you order the vintage version. They also carry replacements for Japanese built Gretches whch are not the same thing.
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Mudcat's music on Soundclick

"Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-

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#2092072 - 07/01/09 07:38 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Mudcat]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
Thanks for the source. They have the switch caps that I need. I have to wait for my guy to get back from vacation before I do anything, but that is a helpful link.

Years ago I sold my Fender/Bigsby to a fellow who had a contact with a guy who bought out all the old Gretsch parts. I should see if AI can find him again, he likely has the jack plate.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2092137 - 07/01/09 10:32 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 1793
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Bill@Welcome Home Studios
Still trying to decide upon a polish for the Bigsby, which is dull and ugly looking.


Bigsby's are aluminum aren't they? They all seem to have a duller pewter look to me, as opposed to being chrome plated or stainless steel. I've had very good results getting gold-plated & chrome parts to sparkle with Brasso on a soft rag.

Scott Fraser

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#2092271 - 07/01/09 04:46 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Aren't there some special cleaners/polishes for aluminum automotive rims? I bet that stuff and a little elbow-grease would put some bling back in your Bigsby...

One of those Mr. Clean "Magic Eraser" sponges might buff up the aluminum nice and quick, as well; then again, it might sorta scuff it up, instead- I'd try it on the underside of the handle first...
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2092335 - 07/02/09 01:18 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
GeoffB Online   content
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From a chemistry point of view:

AluminIum(!) is a shiny metal which oxidises to a dull grey surface (aluminium oxide).

The above oxide is totally inert - ie it does not react with anything else and actually protects the pure metal underneath from further oxidation (one of the reasons it's used in aviation - no need, really, to paint it).

SO....

If you remove the oxide to reveal the shiny aluminium underneath, it will soon re-oxidise and go dull again.

Either live with the (safe) aluminium oxide or be prepared to lacquer the metal when bright.

Geoff
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

Frank M:Back in the day you could have a trio with two people.

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#2092350 - 07/02/09 04:22 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: GeoffB]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: GeoffB

Either live with the (safe) aluminium oxide or be prepared to lacquer the metal when bright.

Geoff


Geoff,

But it ain't purty!

No it is mottled and not 'even' in its oxidation, and there are quite a few years of dirt and sweat rubbed into it. I know that if I do get it nice and clean, it will oxidize again, and that is okay.

I don't expect it to look like chrome, because that would be anti-what it should look like.

I do think that the various compounds mentioned: gun or wheel polish: probably have some oxide retardant in their makeup, slowing down the oxide process. I don't think that it would hurt the metal to add a layer of protection against grime.

But I'll leave the decision in the hands of my friendly local luthier.

A couple of days ago I rubbed the body down with almond oil, and filled two rags with dirt. Last light I took the guitar apart, took the Bigsby off, dissassembled the pickups, and gave all the parts a good cleaning. I rubbed the body down well with an orange based cleaner, and scrubbed the fretboard with lemon oil and a toothbrush. Laid a light coat of lemon oil on the fretboard, replenished it where it soaked in. Great parts of the fretboard were quite thirsty. After a time I rubbed the body down again, rubbd the fretboard out, and put it all back together. Re-strung it.

I filled three rags with dirt. (old hand towels). The rest of the guitar looks pretty good now. But the Bigsby is dragging down the whole look.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2092374 - 07/02/09 06:28 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
GeoffB Online   content
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Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 7820
Loc: UK East Midlands via Scotland
By the way - all your images are being shown (to me) as having been moved or deleted.

I think I'd maybe give part of it a rub with the oxidising-retardent polish & see what happens.

G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

Frank M:Back in the day you could have a trio with two people.

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#2092377 - 07/02/09 06:53 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: GeoffB]
Mudcat Offline
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Registered: 07/20/01
Posts: 3213
Loc: Twangtown, USA
Originally Posted By: GeoffB
By the way - all your images are being shown (to me) as having been moved or deleted...


Same here.
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"Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-

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#2092378 - 07/02/09 06:56 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: GeoffB]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: GeoffB
By the way - all your images are being shown (to me) as having been moved or deleted.

G.

Thanks for the catch. Fixed now.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2092430 - 07/02/09 08:23 AM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 16328
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
SOO00oo... How's she sound? Acoustically, as well as plugged-in?

I imagine the playability could benefit from a little set-up work, that's to be fairly expected.

But... how's she sound?
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2092581 - 07/02/09 12:46 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 8872
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
SOO00oo... How's she sound? Acoustically, as well as plugged-in?

I imagine the playability could benefit from a little set-up work, that's to be fairly expected.

But... how's she sound?


I'll need some time to dial in the right amp settings and stuff, mostly I've been worried about getting it cleaned up and ready to play and waiting for my guy to get back in town to set it up properly. But just fooling around a bit, dialing in different amounts of amp distortion and switch settings, I'm able to get a bunch of cool tones. I always liked the Gretsch wide tonal range. I don't know exactly what they do differently than Fender or Gibson, but the tone controls and switches always seem to do something other than just muffle the output. I had the same pickups in a Corvette, and I loved that guitar.

But I'll be a better judge after a visit to the luthier.
_________________________

"Is it possible that he was alive when you began the autopsy?"
"No. His brain was sitting on my desk."
"But could he have been alive?"
"He could have been alive and practicing law somewhere."

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#2092641 - 07/02/09 04:28 PM Re: cleaning vintage Gretsch [Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 16328
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Featuring Filter'Trons, not HiLo'Trons, but still some very good examples of the versatility of "That Great Gretsch Tone":

Pete Townshend’s Recording Secrets

Originally Posted By: Gibson Lifestyle "Mythbusters" feature
Joe Walsh reciprocated Townshend’s earlier gift of an Arp synthesizer by giving The Who guitarist a fully-formed studio rig: a 1959 Gretsch 6120 Chet Atkins Hollowbody electric guitar and a late ’50s Fender narrow-panel tweed Bandmaster 3x10” combo amp (along with an Edwards volume pedal and Whirlwind cable to run between them). This might look like one of the most counter-intuitive setups in the history of rock, far more appropriate to vintage rock and roll or country playing than to the gargantuan crunch and krang that Townshend wrestled from his gear. But a closer look — and listen — reveals just how perfectly the combination worked to achieve the sound that The Who guitarist had in his head, as revealed throughout 1971’s Who’s Next, 1973’s Quadrophenia, and a little of everything else he recorded in the studio from then on after, solo or with the band.

While a medium-depth archtop electric might seem like the guitar least suitable to Townshend’s sonic and physical abuses, a listen to many of the tracks on these classic albums reveals its characteristics loud and clear. The Gretsch 6120’s “FilterTron” pickups provide decent sustain and good punch, but they are also fairly low-output humbuckers, and provide plenty of string definition and harmonic sparkle. Coupled with the hollow guitar, they excel at anything from the musical feedback that Townshend liked to induce as a recording tool, to an enticing blend of crunchy sparkle that helps power chords and arpeggios alike slice right through the mix. The tweed Fender Bandmaster, for its part, is an extremely rare and desirable amp that produces about 28 watts from a pair of 6L6GC tubes through the unusual speaker complement of three Jensen alnico 10”s. It offers enough clarity to present a yield, shimmer soundstage at clean settings, but breaks up early enough to provide chunky tube overdrive at volume levels that won’t send most delicate condenser and ribbon mics into meltdown. Together, they create “a sound from paradise”, as Townshend told Guitar Player magazine in 1993, having just used the rig once again to record parts of the latter-day Who album Psychoderelict.


Given the choice between the Arp synth-rig and the '59 Gretsch 6120/narrow-panel "tweed" Fender Bandmaster 3x10 combo-package, I'd certainly go with the Gretsch and the Bandmaster, for sure! thu
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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