No comment.

At the beginning of 2002, when I was one of the moderators, I invited Gregory Bruce Campbell to the Lowdown after seeing a picture of his 9 string on the AFM site. This turned into one of the ugliest threads I've ever seen on the Lowdown. Ironically, the war with Gregory was with another friend of mine I had invited to the Lowdown as well. They were both almost banned from the forum but somehow it was eventually reeled in.

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/529398/1/The_nine_string_exists

Wally

For those of you who may have been planning to say, "that isn't a bass", remember that is what I have heard for my entire life when I show up to play jazz with an electric bass (no matter how many strings it has).

Owww. Just looking at that picture makes my left hand hurt.

It's a bass alright. It is one that is not for me and never will be.

A Boesendorfer extended grand piano goes down to F or F# as well. So these extended basses aren't the only instruments that get down to whale country.

"A piano for bass players"

Very cool, and the cat can certainly play it. It's not really any stranger than a Chapman Stick. I wonder what sort of PA support he needs to make the 21Hz note audible. I would need a bigger car, which ain't gonna happen.

(speaking of The Stick; Tony Levin's Stick Men started their current tour in Syracuse NY a couple Fridays ago, but I had a damn gig scheduled before I found out about it. Doh!)

I thought it was elephants whose hearing goes the lowest of all the creatures.

Yeah... I'm a tard.

Elephants and as it turns out ferrets. Both can hear down to 15-16Hz depending on what reference material you look at. Turns out ferrets are ridiculous little critters. Their hearing range is 15Hz - 44kHz. That's officially the largest range I found.

Hmmm, I tried 6 and realised that was one too many for me. To each his own (number of strings). Here's a paraphrase from the Anvil: The Story Of Anvil book, when they auditioned a new bass player called Gregory or something, who got the job. Lips or Robb said about him:



And. That. Was. It. No more mention about his chosen instrument, no rant about 5-string basses or whatever. Just that and nothing more. The way it should be (unless a band wants to establish a certain look or image, but we've been down that road before).

Yep, same story, and same idea about the number of strings. The players I've heard with 6 or more strings tend more toward solo playing(alone or in a group setting), have very advanced or idiosyncratic technique, and if they have a band, it's usually more or less built around them.
I wouldn't mind having that kind of skill and technique, but I probably would have it if I wanted it bad enough, and I don't begrudge those who wanted it bad enough to develop it. In the final analysis, it really boils down to what kind of music you hear in your head and heart, and how much you want to play it. I say have as many strings as you can handle and still make tasty music, and call it bass, or bass plus, or Uncle Bob if you want to. Let's get off each other's backs with our self-imposed limits and let the music flow. Anyone who still listens to music on the radio knows we need some decent music from somewhere.

What skill and technique? I realize the clip was short, but I heard nothing to justify the purchase. I have heard plenty of guys do monstrous things on 4-7 string basses. Kudos to them. This guy was nothing but a poser with a big bass.

Then again, if I really wanted to be pissed off, I could buy some recording he's done.

yes, this is not news. i'm glad this guy has found a bass that makes him comfortable and allows him to express himself the way he wants.

there's plenty of basses like this on talkbass. conklin has been making 8s for quite some time. at this point, there is quite a lot of support for extended range basses (ERBs).

robb.

Nice comment in the old thread, robb...classy.

We just took on board a new bass player at church who uses a very wide necked 7 and a just-as-wide 6 string... I look at that 2x12 he wears across his chest and just cringe... and to make it worse, his fingers are these short, stubby little things, 3/4 the length of mine... but he says he can't play a bass with the strings closer together like my jazz or he stumbles all over himself. And he is GOOD.
I tried a 6 string, briefly, before coming to the conclusion that that was 2 too many, and promptly sold it and my beloved 5 string also... now I'm back down to a more manageable 4.
I guess it comes down to not only the number of strings but the width of the board as well... my 6 string was very narrow, not much wider than my 5, but this other guy's 6 string at the nut would take 3 of my jazz necks to cover. It just matters what you're used to and what's comfortable. And ya gotta admit, to the uninformed masses, that runway slab full of steel frets and strings looks and sounds awfully impressive...

DX

We had a number of similar threads over the years in the forum, and ultimately they all wound up going in circles. Some people have taken very dogmatic approaches and others are open minded about the concept of extended range bass.

Ultimately it all boils down to how you think of the instrument and your needs. For a lot of people there's a comfort factor that's the product of years of experience, or attachment to a tradition. And breaking from those patterns is tough to do. Other people are looking for an instrument that fully allows them to express the full range of their ideas. And perhaps a 5 string or even 6 has not been enough to express those ideas. Enter instruments like the Conklin or a Chapman stick.

I think there's room for both kinds of players in a wide spectrum of music.

ERBs are nothing new and there are many accomplished bassists using them. I applaud those who are out there pushing back the bounderies of our instrument. I just as equally applaud those who are out there layin' it down in the traditional style.

I have said many times, both here and on other boards, that I am very disappointed with bassists (or any musician for that matter)who criticize and ridicule others. I have never understood the hate for ERBs or the contention that those who play them are not "real" bassists. Likewise, I have no tolerance for those who would sneer at players who remain on 4 strings.

I contend that Leo Fender did us all a big diservice when he invented the first Precision with only four strings. I mean if it was supposed to be a 'bass guitar' it should of had six strings right from the get-go. After all the 'baritone guitar' has six strings, it would seem logical that a 'bass guitar' would have the same number.

I of course realize that Leo was designing a replacement for the upright bass and therefore followed that design. In fact he intended for the precision to serve as a means for 'guitarists' to be able to easily play bass parts....essentially putting bassists out of a job! And he almost succeded because both bandleaders and "real" bassists would never sully themselves and their reputations by being seen with one! It took some brave pioneers to bring the electric bass to its current acceptance.

Even when I first started playing the instrument in the late 70's there was still quite a bit of predjudice against the electric bass in jazz. And many "real" bassists only doubled on electric because they "had to".

We've come a long way baby!

But even today bass is still looked down on by many musicians as being the "easy instrument", you know, the one you picked up because guitar was too hard for you.

I believe that much of the problem lies in our tendancy to identify ourselves in relation to our chosen instrument, "I am a {insert preferred instrument + ist here}" rather than "I am a musician". I'm not saying that it is improper to be discerning, but as long as someone is making beautiful music why should the tool used to do it even matter?

Just relax everyone, the "proper bass police" are not going to show up and demand that you surrender your instrument and play only those with the "correct" number of strings!

So lighten up and just enjoy the music!


Cheers!

Agreed wholeheartedly.

And you're a wide spectrum.

I'm constantly stunned by the level of dogma you find in these conversations. I recently bought a 5-banger and loaded it E-C; I've been taking crap from bassists and guitards ever since. Why? I'm not asking anyone to change how they play, or what they play. I've just decided to do something different. If a cat wants to play just two strings, I'm cool with that. It won't make me change my mind about what I play, but I won't have a problem with them for doing something different.

Here is a little extra just because some might find it amusing:

I was talking with a guitar player about my bass and he said, "Why don't you just play guitar?"

I replied, "I'm not allowed."

He asked, "Why not?"

"I screwed up and learned how to read music."

The look he had was priceless.

That's perfect!

DX

I think he was spot on when he described the instrument as " a piano for bass players". His band "little and large" is a trio with a drummer and another bassist on a 5 string. So he uses that higher end quite a bit in that band as he seems to play most of the melodies. If you are comfortable expressing yourself on an instrument then i say go for it regardless of what it is. I am definitely most comfortable on my six string. The string spacing and tension just feels right. But to each his own.

My only problem with ERBs is when talentless people use them as a way to stand out. Like a gimmick. That and to me the high strings on 7+ stringed basses sound too tinny and empty. But that is just personal taste.

I am always thankful that people are out there thinking outside the box and pushing boundaries. It is people like that that make the world such an interesting place. Everyone thought that Anthony Jackson was nuts when he told them about his idea for the 6 string. But look how much great music he made with it and how many talented people have made the 6 string their musical voice.


.

I could never see myself playing something like this, let alone holding one. I mean, heck, my six string gets far too heavy after about 30 minutes.

Personally, I'm not even used to my six string yet, and I've had it for six months. I've really found no use for the C string yet, except for potentially transcribing solos on the end of the G down to it, and extending my walking. Actually, now that I think about it, it's much more preferred to keep walking in shape than to extend up the neck. God, I hate that.

The only reason I bought instead of a five of the exact same model / type was because I already have a five, and because the bass was too good to pass up. Hmm. Maybe I should've gone with the five?

I'm kind of surprised. I've loaded E-C for 15 years now. Almost no one has ever even noticed. Most don't even notice that it's a fretless.

I need to start hanging around musicians that give a damn.

it's hard work being awesome for this long.

robb.

A low F#. Well I quess I wouldn't have to hear my guitar player bitch at me for not playing lowest note I can eh?
It'a nice looking and sounding bass and more power to him.
Definately nothing I'd ever see me realistically using.

I don't play songs in F#.

He plays them in Gb!

Wally

Yeah but we do lots of stuff in G, A, and E. I would never have to play anything higher that the A string. He would probably be exstatic.

I admire the Man, he followed his hearts desire and made himself a custom instrument exactly the way he wanted it. The fact that its a 9 string bass is even cooler, it required some effort to do what he did to create the Bass and then to normalise it as his goto bass is again quite amazing!!

He seems a nice guy to boot. I will have a Seamy D custom bass some day also.

I plan on having a one string bass built. I will then go to the NAMM show and do a demo performance in which I only play whole notes.

Me too. However, I am a little surprised that he felt the need to customize the bridge and pickups, though. I'd have done those single string bridges. And I'd have used, say, a couple of J pickups aligned in a P configuration. That'd have cut costs by a ton, and the pair of single coil J pickups would have done the hum canceling that the P pickups do. And I'm afraid to consider what kind of truss rod thing he's got going on to keep that wooden landing strip all straight. I'd have made a phone call to Moses; Mayby buy two Vertical Jump Basses without pickups installed, mill flat the bottom edge of one and the top edge of the other, and glued them together with some biscuits like Norm on The New Yankee Workshop would do. "And don't forget to wear these: saftey glasses." Thanks for the advice, Norm....

Yup. That's what I'm doing tomorrow.

Hope this isn' too much of a diversion, but any of you guys ever play an 8-string, like a Hamer, the ones that are really essentially 4-string, but with 2 strings per note (like a 12-string guitar). I've only seen a few guys play those, but they have a pretty unique sound that is suitable for certain types of music - in particular, folk, in my opinion. Just curious how they are to play as I've never layed my hands on one.

A few forum members have 8 (4 doubled), 10 (5 doubled) and 12 string basses (4 trippled), IIRC. I want to say Jeremy and Sr. Nuts are among the elite. There are also some famous bass players that have used them on famous tracks. Ask somebody else who/what they are because I don't know off the top of my head.

Apparently, robb is a member with a 9 string member.

Tom Petersson (Cheap Trick,) Nikki Sixx (Duh,) Doug Pinnick (Kings X) and I THINK but don't quote me... Timothy B Schmidt (Poco, Eagles) play(ed) 12 string basses. I know there are more out there... I just can't think of who it might be. I'm probably wrong about Schmidt. It's right there behind my eyeballs but I just can't pull it out.. and for some reason his is the only name that comes to mind.
Tom Petersson pioneered the long scale 12 string concept back in the late 70's with Hamer.
I think Hagstrom made their 8 string octave bass in the 60's though. Mike Rutherford (Genesis,) Noel Redding (Jimi Hendrix) and even Hendrix himself played H8's, among others.

DX

PEARL JAM!!!!!! Jeff Ament. Whew, that was bugging me.
ANYWAYS.... there you go.


DX

Yes, I have an eight string bass. Four strings each with an octave string next to it.

I like it and was pleasantly surprised to find out that when I brought it to a gig the rest of the band liked it too.

Which will subsequently be placed on Youtube, played by bazillions, and launch Jeremy into a whole new realm of stardom... sounds good...
And when will the 3 String come out... (Single string with 2 octave strings?) fretted or fretless? or fan-fret?

Sorry. I'm tired... been in the sun all day... forgive me, I'm not used to it. I don't get much sun normally but the mine is shut down for a week.


DX

The subject of 8, 10, and 12 string double (or triple) coursed are another topic entirely and has been discussed quite a bit here.

Monte Colvin from Galactic Cowboys played 8 and 12's a lot.

John Paul Jones played an 8 string Alembic on all of Led Zeppelin's Presence album.

Entwistle used 8 strings off and on.

Aforementioned Jeff Ament played a 12-string on "Jeremy", "Why Go", "Deep", "State of Love and Trust", and "Go".



He played the first 12 string bass but it wasn't a long scale. It was 30.5" scale because they originally couldn't get it to work at 34" scale due to the extremely high tension on the neck. It wasn't until sometime in the 80's that (I believe) Hamer made the first 34" scale 12 string bass.

I've owned several Hamer Chaparral 12 string basses (34" scale) and at the moment I have a cheap Rogue 8 string (double coursed) bass.

I really wasn't talking about the guy in the video. I was thinking more about guys along the lines of John Pattitucci. Of course, if your technique is better than his, I should listen to you. Got any recordings out I can get hold of?



I would have liked to have heard something that used that F#, or even notes working down to it.



yeah, I've heard some of them too. Those six-plus string guys were the players I was referring to above.



Do you really feel confident enough in the superiority of your own knowledge and ability to sit in judgment and pontificate like that? Again, are there any recorded examples to validate your statements, or do we just have to take your word for that you're that much better than 9-string guy?



See above 2 question about your body of recorded work, in case I should want to be pissed off, too...

She's not on much, but Amy from Clatter has at least a 12.

And a few other doubled-string basses on his solo/duet albums, right?

I used to play an 8-string Ibanez back in the mid 90's. I was inspired to get it by Jeff Ament's work with Pearl Jam. That bass sounded like a whole lot of awesomeness! But it was so heavy and ungainly that it was like wearing a piece of furniture. I wound up selling mine just because I didn't have material that demanded me to play an 8 string and it was physically uncomfortable to play.

Playing an 8 string presents some particular challenges. Fingerstyle playing is a little more challenging. I think I got better results from playing it with a pick.

I am stunned anyone would notice at all, or see it as more than a mild curiosity.

I've heard TNB play. He is the real deal and I doubt that there are more than a few people here on the forum (if there are that many) who could do the gigs he does.

I have a friend who juggles bowling pins in the middle of a song with his bass still strapped on. How many people here on the forum can do that gig?

Well. I can balance things on my chin while playing bass.

And remember the good old days when Victor would ride his silly-high unicycle? And finish the solo with a back flip? He ain't so young anymore either.

There's quite a few of them around now. This is an ACG bass:

Agreed. I've seen tnb sit in on a jazz gig on upright and play masterfully -- even with an upright of a different scale than his own. I've heard him "mess around" on electric. Scary.

I can dig on folks using many-stringed basses. It can be really cool. I agree with the general point that folks should play instruments that allow them to express themselves musically as they see fit.

I ain't gonna judge someone by number of strings. Whether I appreciate what they do or not will be based on how they use those strings. Dig?

Peace.
--Dub $$

Add me to the list, I watched/listened to him do "Smokey Joe's Cafe" in Vero's Riverside Theater. Doubled on upright and electric... but I missed him in Jupiter's Maltz Theater playing tuba in "Barnum".
As jeremy says - he's the real deal and a pleasure to hang with.

I have 5 four string basses, 1 five string bass, 1 six string bass, and one eight string bass. (also one "science project bass" which is unplayable at the moment, so I'm not counting it.)

That gives me a total of 39 strings divided by eight basses for an average of 4.785 strings per bass. That has to count for something.

Also, I've played a 2-string fretless built by Chris Stambaugh. Was way fun. Except for the triple-stops...way tricky...

Peace.
--s-uu

You're a triple-stop.

what project are you perpetrating on a poor defenseless bass, you mad fiend?

rok.



robb.

I mentioned it on the side thread but I do have an 8 (Galveston).

I understand the perceived blasphemy of having a "bass" instrument that goes outside the needs of providing the bass role.

But there is more to music than just the bass role; it just happens to be the coolest part.

And after investing a lot of effort learning the EBG interface it seems a shame to have to start all over with something like piano (or the "miniature T-bird" in the photo ) just to be able to get the rest of the music out. (Probably not while providing the bass role in an ensemble, mind you.)

YMMV

This is usually said by pompous giutar players who play power chords and thats it. Playing the melody to Mr. PC in the first through 5 fret area or any bob marley song will usually shut them up even though these basslines aren't too hard.

4 is enough for me. Maybe one day I'll move to a five but I've never really had the need too, although I could use it for alternate fretting posistions. Learning it the hard way will only strenghten my hand so thats the way I look at it.

Unless there were some serious edits, I've seen noob flaming that was more onerous that that thread.