hey guys. i am a very seasoned musician(bass, keys, drums, guitar) but i know little about recording. i am looking to build a small project studio in my basement. it is not going to be used as a full on recording booth so i am going to try to keep it reasonable. even though it is not a pro setup i want to generate solid ideas off it. if i am going to demo something i want to be able to take it to someone and they can really hear my ideas. i do not want to make junk.

i want to be able to mic up a 7 piece drum kit and be able to track it at one time. so probably a kick mic, one on the snare and each tom and a couple overheads. maybe 2 vocal tracks at most. a bass track, a couple guitar tracks and a couple key tracks. i plan to run as much as possible through a DI box. from previous experience it gave the best sounds although there is something to be said for someone who can mic up a cabinet.

i am looking for advice. something that is all in one like the old school 4 tracks were. or maybe something computer based. so suggestions are welcome. i know that protools is the popular program but probably way way way out of budget.

Not sure if you really asked a specific question...?

These days...there are MANY ways to set up a studio...and the term "studio" is being applied to everything from a sinlge computer with some freeware app like Audacity, a cheap I/O converter card and one microphone...
...to more full-tilt setups that have all the expected studio appointments and full racks of gear.

What do you already have...lets start with that?
Also...how much are you looking to spend?

i have nothing at this point. just an old fostex 4 track that i dick around on and a couple shure mics. anyway. i would like to say maybe 5k for a budget. this is not going to be a pro rig. i want to use it to make a good demo when needed. i want to use a decent software if going the computer route. probably use a mac for a computer since they dont do much well but recording is one it does. i have tried lots of freeware in many forms and they are usually junk. there are a few ideas. sorry to be so vague but as i said i do not know my ass from a hole in the ground.

along the lines of the old 4 tracks and later portastudios, Tascam makes a box, the US428, that works much like a portastudio did (in terms of presenting a familiar face to the user), but has a boatload more power. It is limited in the number of tracks that you can record AT THE SAME TIME, but you can record a lot of tracks. It also supports MIDI. If you can deal with only recording 2 tracks at a time, the Tascam US-122 can usually be found on ebay for about $150, and is a pretty smart and inexpensive way to get your feet wet with the concepts of software recording and editing. Cheap lessons, if you will.

Most any computer you'll buy can handle 16 tracks of recording and playback at the same time. You might need to strip out some softwares running in the background that DO NOT NEED TO BE RUNNING, but it is a simple and straightforward proceedure.

Just as a point of reference, there are several ways to approach the production of drums, not the least of which uses samples of real drums, controled by some plug in like EZ Drummer which can be run from within your recording application. Or you can use drum pads to trigger these sounds, and record the results into your DAW software. (I mention this, because if you can't mic a guitar cab, how can you mic a drum kit?) I have a nice drum kit set up right behind me in my music room, but I'm learning to use EZ Drummer.

I'm a fan of Samplitude, and an intro level Sampltiude costs about $80. (The version that I use costs about $4k, so there is an upgrade path.) But there are similar products from most manufacturers, and most do a good job.

If you NEED to record more than 4 sound sources at a time, you'll need a larger interface. There are a large number of choices. I am a fan of RME, but you'll find a lot of proponents here of other hardware solutions.

You'll need some monitors that tell you the truth. In my experience the least acceptable is the Mackie HR-824. You'll find a lot of lovers and haters of this monitor on line. In my opinion, when set up properly, nothing any cheaper sounds better or has as wide a frequency response.

Mics should be chosen by need, and mics are always a good tool to buy used.

It never hurts to have some room treatment, but you should read as much as you can before you spend a dime, and do not be fooled into buying foam solutions.

thanks bill. do you agree that a mac for cpu based recording is the better route than a pc. like either an imac or a macbook pro

That's probably not a road you want to go down.

However, I can say without a doubt that an iMac is NOT the way to go. iMac = toy.

dumb question. and there are no dumb questions only dumb people. (like me) when recording on a CPU how do you control it. i mean like on an old analog desk there are knobs, faders, etc. does a mixer run through usb? or do you control with the mouse, keyboard, etc.

Mac vs. PC debate can turn ugly. Sufficed to say, either option is perfectly fine. Beyond that, it's up to preference. Overall, everything depends on your budget and what you want to accomplish, but these days it makes little sense to not go the computer route in my opinion. The one thing I'll say is that, unless you know it will be necessary to have your studio rig be mobile, go desktop, not laptop. Desktops are faster and stronger, more customizable, and much less expensive. You'll get more for your money.

What you'll be controlling with a computer is your audio software of choice. Pro Tools is one example. There's also Sonar, Audition, Tracktion, Cubase, Logic, FL Studio, and a whole bunch of others. Find one that suits your budget. The software itself is really the least of your worries at the beginning stage, as any of those options get the job done. There are even some free programs as well that might suit your purposes just fine. Hardware is way more important: good mics, preamps, audio interface, monitors, etc. Spend money on those items before thinking about dropping big bucks on Pro Tools.

If you know how to run an analog desk, running the software should be a breeze, provided you're comfortable with working with computers in general. If you're like my dad and just checking your email is a technological adventure, then you might have some issues. Otherwise, it's just knobs and faders, except on a computer screen, although the overall experience varies depending on the software.

Do you buy your car based upon the fuel that it uses, or do you buy your car based upon performance, handling, comfort, then buy the fuel that the car that you love uses?

You will spend your time in your software audio application, not using the OS. You should buy your software based upon features, look, feel, and performance, and you should buy the computer and OS which supports that software.

Most all major audio applications do a respectable job. Each has strong points and weak points. Being a guitar player, you might understand it this way.... maybe you like a Gibson guitar in general and a Les Paul in particular, you probably still would not say bad things about a vintage Strat, or Gretch, or Rickenbacher. For some reason, internet assholes have turned your choice of computer into a religous war; and it is really stupid. THESE ARE TOOLS. Do you really care if the name on your hammer is Staney or Plumb? Or do you just want to drive a nail?

It would be fair to say that, if you should prefer audio software that runs on the Mac, you are going to pay a premium price for that choice. Bob Lentini (developer of SAWStudio) has a $300 netbook that runs 70 tracks of audio with comps and eqs on most tracks. A Macbook Pro will be well over a thousand dollars. When I built my last studio computer I considered trying the iMac, but the cost for the iMac was over $4,000; while the equivalent PC that I built cost me just over $1500. This does not mean that you should not run a Mac, it only means that the choice is costly. I bet that a $500 PC laptop from Best Buy or Office Depot or wherever, coupled with a $300 used firewire or USB interface and the $80 version of Magix Samplitude Home Studio is all that you'll need for a long time to come.

I've been using recording software as long as there has BEEN recording software. I've tried many of the major offerings and have at various times been on the test teams for seveal software and hardware manufacturers. My personal favorites both run on the PC. In my opinion, the best value (without compromising performance)in audio software is with Samplitude Home Studio that I mentioned earlier. I use the big brother of the line as my daily "go-to" recording and editing software. I used to use SAWStudio. So my recomendations would be those two. But as I said above, the choice is more a look at feel thing, and these softwares suit me and offer me the features that I need. Sonar, Nuendo, Digital Performer, Pro Tools... all will do the job. Don't be suckered by good advertising and marketing. Most of the stuff that people try to make into a BIG DEAL really won't mean much to you at all. Study a bit. read a bit, buy once, buy smart, and get back to the goal, which is to record music; not become a computer guru, nor argue minutae on the internet.

thanks for the help bill. you can build a sweet pc based box for a cheap price. quick question. if you use a recording software that can run on a mac or pc and you use a mac can the data you create on your mac be used on a pc that is using the same software.

Yes.

thanks griff. i think i am going to go in a cpu base. any suggestions as far as interfaces. more than likely a windows based machine. i got to play around with cubase today at guitar center(i needed a new cover for my burgundy beast ) while playing around with it i think i can handle it. the sales guy went through it pretty quick. and made it look easy. my biggest question is "is a high power sound card needed"? i know when doing things like graphics and video you need a killer video card. is this true when doing audio. i am not sure since you are really not recording through the sound card. so many questions. so much to learn.

I don't know that this is true, so let us go over a few things.

If you create a wave file (which is how most DAW softwares work today) this file can be exported and used by ANY DAW software on any platform that accepts wave files.

IF you follow the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences Producers and Engineers Wing/AES document for exchange of audio data, your files will open in any program and be time-aligned and play back correctly.

You do NOT have to be using the same software. Any software will work. You do not have to be using a special interface.

What happens is that people make edits and when trying to export their data they do not follow the guidelines, and their edits end up out of time because every DAW software manufacturer has written their own way to handle edit decision lists; or the exported files end up sounding different because the guy doing the export didn't render the changes that he wrote to the exported files (modern DAW software does a lot of non-destructive editing... the changes are run in real time every time you play the file, rather than being mixed down and becoming a part of the file, unless you tell the software to write the changes to the file. I should point out that, running a lot of effects and changes in real time every time the files play causes a load on the computer that it does not see when the changes are written to the file. Too big a load= computer stuttering on playback. To me it makes sense to write the changes to the file, once you are happy with the changes); or the files will sound different because you've got certain effects that I don't have; so when you send the files to me, I can't access the same reverbs or eqs ir whatever that you've used.

There are several other methods of file exchange which try to incorporate and convert the various edit decision lists, and these work work... more or less, sometimes, or maybe not. But if one simply follows the NARAS guidelines, one cannot go wrong.

It occurs to me that you may be considering recording raw tracks at your place, then editing them elsewhere, where someone might have more toys and/or a better system upon which to edit. Yeah, that is an easy one. Render the files, take the disk tot he new place, load it up, and there ya go.

In terms of an interface, the interfaces offer various things. They all offer a way to get audio into a computer. Many include A/D conversion, D/A conversion, but some do not. Some include mic preamps. Some include MIDI. Some include SMPTE. Some include multiple formats of digital and analog and can be used as translation boxes among different types of input and output. Some include routing software musch like an on-board mixing console. Some include free software tools to help to make the job easier. Some come bundled with various softwares to make a complete system. Some come with proprietary computer interface cards. Some instead use USB or Firewire.

So the costs are all over the place, depending upon what you need.

Obviously, the quality of the converters and the associated circuitry are going to be a factor. A cheap converter set will not sound as good as a better converter set. And if you only neeed to record two channels at once, it is going to be cheaper to buy an interface than if you need to record 24 channels at once.

A lot of people including myself swear by the RME line of interfaces. A little more pricy that average, they bring super support, painless installation, a super routing software, a great set of free tools, and really decent sounding converters to the table, and they hold their value. Even used, these interfaces cost a little more. Worth every penny. For me, it is a push between them and Lynx, and the deciding factors for me were the routing tools and the support. (I use external converters plugged into my RME boxes, for even better quality.)

Presonus ands M-Audio seem to hold the middle ground. A good value in price and performance.

Again I'll suggest the budget entry of the Tascam US-122 as an all in one solution you can use to learn the tricks of the trade; then upgrade to something with more power when you are ready. At $150 used, you get MIDI, audio, mic pres, guitar inputs, line inputs, analog and digital inputs and outputs, a light version of Cubase, and a light version of Gigastudio (software instruments).

But what you need to buy depends upon what features you need. I have a rack of mic pres, so I don't need mic pres. But a lot of guys will buy the Behringer ADA 8000, which is 8 line and mic pres coupled with 8 A/D and 8 D/A converters, with lightpipe output, for around $250. This is not a computer interface. Plug it into a lightpipe-enabled interface like a Frontier Designs Group Wavecard or Dakota card, or an RME Multiface or similar (RME has a whole line of new products which which I am unfamilar, like the RayDAT card...) and you've got a decent 8 channel rig that allows you to upgrade the I/O without having to change interfaces. Since the you will use the interface and its routing, and you'll set the computer up to run with the interface/software as best possible, it makes a lot of sense not to have to change the interface unless you have to do so. But as you gain more experience, you are likely to want to upgrade the quality of they converters or the mic pres.

Hope this helps.

Bill

Some advise on the drum sound. I still haven't quite mastered this yet, but I have recently discovered a few unusual things that really make a big difference for the drum sound.

I was playing with some fiberglass sticks for YEARS. The tips were worn away. I couldn't figure out why the sound was so bad. A few weeks ago I went to Acrylic flexible sticks. These make a huge difference in the sound. ALSO....The type of floor, not just the floor covering, will also make a difference. I'm on a 4" cedar riser now. It reverberates some. Before I was on a solid wood riser on tile over concrete floor. The distance the microphones are from the drums are very important. Too close and you will just get the ring of the tight part near the rim. Too far and your drums will sound "distant". I'm using a set of 6 Shure microphones for my drums.

Dan

In a few weeks I'll have some new drum videos up, with the Acrylic sticks. They give my drums that nice FUSION sound !!

A great sounding studio starts with acoustics. All the best gear in the world will still turn out crap in a crap room, period.

AFA Mac vs PC, stick with what you are comfortable with already, unless you desire the challenge of learning a new OS. Many DAW apps are cross platform, and waveforms (.wav, aiff, etc.) are not OS specific, and can be imported into any DAW.

Build a great sounding space to record, and a properly acoustically tuned space to monitor/mix, then spend money on gear.