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#2129612 - 10/29/09 08:18 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
Beethree Offline
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The beautiful thing is that whenever Sabbathia pitches in this series he will be matched up against Cliff Lee. Either side could win this matchup, but against any other pitcher, Sabbathia would be an almost sure win.
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#2129624 - 10/29/09 08:35 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Beethree]
DanL Offline
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Charlie has faith in his pen too. There really was no concern in the 9th. An error let the yankees score and there were 2 outs with a man on 2nd at that point, and a 5 run cushion.

Sabbathia won't match up against Lee next game, I bet they pitch him game 3 in Philly on 3 days rest.

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#2129636 - 10/29/09 08:52 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: DanL]
Bobadohshe Offline
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That was a beautiful effort by Cliff Lee. I honestly expected nothing less. The question is will any of the other Philly pitchers match up as well against the other Yankee pitchers? Cole Hamels can definitely be gotten to. And Pedro is a roll of the dice, especially against the Yankees whom he has face innumerable times in the post season.

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#2129643 - 10/29/09 09:07 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: DanL]
Magpel Offline
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Originally Posted By: DanL
Charlie has faith in his pen too. There really was no concern in the 9th. An error let the yankees score and there were 2 outs with a man on 2nd at that point, and a 5 run cushion.

Sabbathia won't match up against Lee next game, I bet they pitch him game 3 in Philly on 3 days rest.


Well, I was referring to Charlie's own candid words about his bullpen (Lidge in particular) before the start of the playoffs, not to the decision to leave Lee in last night...though honestly is if you can save 15+ pitches on your 3-start ace's arm with a 6-0 lead, why wouldn't you? I thought it was an odd decision, but I like it because I love seeing CGs, especially in the playoffs.

Remember a few years ago when the only thing separating Ozzie Guillien a complete game world series was 2/3rd of an inning that Jose Contreras couldn't finish? Garland, Buehrle and--I think--Freddy Garcia had all pitched complete games before him. Jenks finished the final 9th. Bizarre.
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#2129671 - 10/29/09 10:30 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: DanL]
Beethree Offline
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Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 430
Originally Posted By: DanL


Sabbathia won't match up against Lee next game, I bet they pitch him game 3 in Philly on 3 days rest.


Interesting thought - you might be right about that - ESPECIALLY if they lose tonight.
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#2129679 - 10/29/09 10:42 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Beethree]
Magpel Offline
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Sabbathia in game 3?? No chance. Pettitte is a great road pitcher (Torre always held him out for game three) with more big game experience than anyone ever, and he's been outstanding so far this postseason.

Plus...game three is on Saturday. That would be two days' rest for CC or Cliff, not three.

I think you'll see CC and Cliff on the 1,4,7 if it plays out like that.

A big question is whether Girardi would pitch Pettitte on three days' rest in game six, something Pettitte hasn't done in 120 starts.
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#2129714 - 10/29/09 11:29 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Beethree]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Beethree
The beautiful thing is that whenever Sabbathia pitches in this series he will be matched up against Cliff Lee. Either side could win this matchup, but against any other pitcher, Sabbathia would be an almost sure win.

confused rolleyes

Sabathia pitched very well last night. The Yankees bullpen - not so much. They'll still be the same no matter who Sabathia is pitching against, right? wink

Seriously...what is it going to take for people to stop saying whoever Philly is playing has better pitching? First it was the Rockies, then the Dodgers, now NY. grin

Cliff Lee (playoff era .54!!!!!) pitched as good a game as any I've ever seen, especially in the WS - against the vaunted Sabathia, who clearly didn't pitch as well as his former teammate. Advantage - Philly. Pedro - we'll see tonight...but I'm guessing he's not gonna suck - the sporadic Mr. Burnett's the one with the weight of the series on his shoulders. Advantage - I'd have to say Philly. Cole Hamels - last year's glory boy - bet he's got something left in the tank. Pettitte is a great hurler fer sure, but with the home crowd behind them, I'd have to give the advantage to Philly. Bullpen-wise: Madsen, Lidge, Happ, Blanton - all excellent pitchers...given what I saw last night from the NY pen, I'd have to say advantage - Philly.

...and NY would be nuts to pitch Sabathia in Game 3. He threw a zillion pitches last night and needs the rest...not to mention how distrespectful that'd be to the rest of NY's pitching staff.

I stand by my prediction - the Philly win in Game 1 was huge, and the Yankees are in deep doo doo now. I'm not the only one who thinks that, either.

Matter of fact, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say if NY doesn't win tonight, they're in serious danger of being swept. Philly doesn't lose much at home during the playoffs. evil

Go Phillies! smile

dB
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#2129731 - 10/29/09 12:14 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Dave Bryce]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 650
Loc: DE
Pettitte is a great pitcher, and him matching up against Hamels, well Cole better have a gem in the works. Last matchup Phils were beating Pettitte 4-1 and it was one of many blown Lidge saves that lost the game.

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#2129739 - 10/29/09 12:32 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: DanL]
Magpel Offline
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dB, you will live to regret calling Joe Blanton an excellent pitcher. Heard it here first. wink
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#2129759 - 10/29/09 01:01 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
Bobadohshe Offline
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I also favor Pettitte in Pettitte vs. Hamels, judging solely by their play off starts so far this year. Hamels hasn't been that clutch lately.

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#2129771 - 10/29/09 01:31 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 650
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: Magpel
dB, you will live to regret calling Joe Blanton an excellent pitcher. Heard it here first. wink


That's just mean! smile Blanton is a good pitcher. Maybe not excellent but he's another one who when he's got his good stuff, he can be very tough on the hitters.

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#2129772 - 10/29/09 01:37 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: DanL]
Magpel Offline
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Registered: 02/07/01
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Loc: New Paltz,NY,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: DanL
Originally Posted By: Magpel
dB, you will live to regret calling Joe Blanton an excellent pitcher. Heard it here first. wink


That's just mean! smile Blanton is a good pitcher. Maybe not excellent but he's another one who when he's got his good stuff, he can be very tough on the hitters.


Hey I like battlers like Blanton! But I don't see him as a very good matchup against the Yanks. He's the kind of righty the Yanks just wear out.

But it all remains to be seen! I think I was a titch surprised last night that Lee was able to maintain the dominance he's shown against the two lesser offenses he'd faced. I thought he'd pitch well but not THAT well. It was really magnificent.

What an acquisition! And to think they were disappointed they couldn't rope Halladay.
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#2129787 - 10/29/09 02:20 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 650
Loc: DE
I don't think anyone in but Halliday was disappointed they didn't get Halliday. The press on it was the Phils brass thought Lee was the better pitcher, and if so, he sure has surpassed expectations.

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#2129796 - 10/29/09 03:11 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Magpel
dB, you will live to regret calling Joe Blanton an excellent pitcher. Heard it here first. wink

Okay, maybe I got a bit carried away there...I'll sub in Scott Eyre... grin

Re: Game 3 - love to see the Hamels of last year show up. That'd be so cool...he's untouchable when he's on.

My vote for best/most dependable Philly reliever would probably go to Madsen. thu

dB
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#2129860 - 10/29/09 07:18 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Dave Bryce]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Burnett is on fire!

dB
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#2129871 - 10/29/09 08:24 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Dave Bryce]
Geoff Grace Offline
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1-1

Congrats Yankees fans.

Best,

Geoff
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#2129872 - 10/29/09 08:31 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Geoff Grace]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Bad calls on both sides - first, on Howard's "catch" which was called a DP, then on Utley being called out at first in the top of the eighth and finally the called third strike on Howard in the ninth. In all fairness, the first two were both tough calls....

So, NY wins a must won game for them. I'm still thinking Philly has the advantage. thu

dB
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#2129874 - 10/29/09 08:33 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Geoff Grace]
Magpel Offline
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Series on.

Not even a gripping game, really. Very good pitching. Wouldn't you just know it in a clash of offensive titans? A-Rod and Howard can't do anything but strike out.

Ump had a strike zone by Dali tonight, though.
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#2129875 - 10/29/09 08:34 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Magpel
Not even a gripping game, really. Very good pitching. Wouldn't you just know it in a clash of offensive titans? A-Rod and Howard can't do anything but strike out.

Ump had a strike zone by Dali tonight, though.

Fully agreed across the board.

dB
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#2129876 - 10/29/09 08:34 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Dave Bryce]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 650
Loc: DE
This is right where they were against LA, went back home and that was it. Execellent job by Yanks pitching tonight, Phils just couldn't get anything going.

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#2129877 - 10/29/09 08:37 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: DanL]
Mark Zeger Offline
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Bottom 7th/top 8th missed calls result in inning ending double plays. rolleyes

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#2129884 - 10/29/09 08:55 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
Geoff Grace Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 5983
Loc: Southern California, United St...
Originally Posted By: Magpel
Ump had a strike zone by Dali tonight, though.

grin

Best,

Geoff
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#2129890 - 10/29/09 09:34 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Geoff Grace]
Bobadohshe Offline
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Registered: 12/25/06
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That third out on Howard was ridiculous. He probably would have struck out anyway though...

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#2129914 - 10/30/09 01:57 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Mark Zeger]
Bridog6996 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Bottom 7th/top 8th missed calls result in inning ending double plays. rolleyes


I definitely thought the out call on Utley was a "make-up" call for the weirdness in the previous inning. It was a close play at first, but it was a call that a big league ump should make. Especially in the Series, where MLB calls in the best-of-the-best umps. I may be wrong, though. It could be that the same ump just straight-up blew both calls. At least neither side can call out the other since they both got the same treatment.
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#2129935 - 10/30/09 06:51 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Bridog6996]
Garrafon Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bridog6996
Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Bottom 7th/top 8th missed calls result in inning ending double plays. rolleyes


I definitely thought the out call on Utley was a "make-up" call for the weirdness in the previous inning. It was a close play at first, but it was a call that a big league ump should make. Especially in the Series, where MLB calls in the best-of-the-best umps. I may be wrong, though. It could be that the same ump just straight-up blew both calls. At least neither side can call out the other since they both got the same treatment.


Looking to the call against the Yankees, I get quite confused when an ump can claim that the ball was caught in the air when the ump is standing BEHIND the player. Physics dictates that the first base ump (who made the call) simply could not see that play. That call should have been made by the 2d base ump who, upon looking at the replays, was looking directing at the play, or the home plate ump. Also, why would the throw have been made to second if the defender believed he caught the ball in the air? In that event, the conservative (and I believe proper) move would have been to tag first base to double up Posada.

It was the same situation during the ALCS when the third base ump claimed Swisher left the bag to early when he tagged up to go home. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to see Swisher's foot on the bag and determine when the left fielder catches the ball.

Even though the Umps were doing some conferencing, I think that, akin to the NFL, each Ump needs to be more receptive to the views of their brethren and not just be king of his respective fiefdom.

The call against the Yanks last night could have been huge. They were rallying. What could have been, of course, will never be known. Same could be said for the double play against the Phils. You just hate to see games potentially turn on bad calls.

The strike against Howard, yeah, it wasn't a good call, but, as BB fans, we have learned to more foregiving over the amorphous strike zone rather than the cut and dry plays discussed above.

At least last night's game was more exciting overall....some innings with genuine threats, etc. helps the excitement level.

Good luck to both teams on Sat (particularly the Yanks).

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#2130070 - 10/30/09 12:14 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Garrafon]
Bridog6996 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Garrafon
Even though the Umps were doing some conferencing, I think that, akin to the NFL, each Ump needs to be more receptive to the views of their brethren and not just be king of his respective fiefdom.


Umpires do occasional overturn calls after getting together for a confab. I don't think the issue is stubbornness necessarily. Since each umpire is designated his own "territory," in certain situations the other umps may not be paying attention to what's going on elsewhere. For instance, on that call against the Yankees, the second base ump probably had his eyes on the runner leaving second and Posada coming into second. The third base ump may have had most of his attention focused on the runner coming into third.
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#2130187 - 10/30/09 06:54 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Garrafon]
Mark Zeger Offline
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Registered: 03/21/01
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Originally Posted By: Garrafon
Originally Posted By: Bridog6996
Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Bottom 7th/top 8th missed calls result in inning ending double plays. rolleyes


I definitely thought the out call on Utley was a "make-up" call for the weirdness in the previous inning.


It was the same situation during the ALCS when the third base ump claimed Swisher left the bag to early when he tagged up to go home. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to see Swisher's foot on the bag and determine when the left fielder catches the ball.


There was some talk radio debate about the Swisher tag up call being the "make-up" for not calling him out on the pickoff at second. He should have been erased at second so the call on the tag up went against him.

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#2130281 - 10/31/09 08:25 AM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Mark Zeger]
Magpel Offline
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I think replay is inevitable now, even though baseball cherishes its pastoral idiosyncracies.

There is a fundamental difference between MLB umps and officials in other team sports (other than weight and conditioning...).

There's a long and terrible tradition of arrogance and over-inflated self-importance among umpires, which reached its apogee when Richie Phillips essentially argued, "we ARE the show," and lost everything for them on the bargaining table, in perhaps the most ill-advised union power play in the history of ill-advised union power plays.

Umps have attitude, which is patently ridiculous. Can you believe that this game so easily accepts the idea that different umps have different strike zones? Imperfection and a certain amount on inherent difference, sure...but Styles?? Styles of strike zones?? Please! I'm not a techno-head or a neo-luddite, but given the performance of umps this postseason and their brazen arrogance about it, I say bring on the digital strike zone and foul lines.
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#2130349 - 10/31/09 12:22 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Magpel]
Bridog6996 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1739
Originally Posted By: Magpel
Umps have attitude, which is patently ridiculous. Can you believe that this game so easily accepts the idea that different umps have different strike zones? Imperfection and a certain amount on inherent difference, sure...but Styles?? Styles of strike zones?? Please! I'm not a techno-head or a neo-luddite, but given the performance of umps this postseason and their brazen arrogance about it, I say bring on the digital strike zone and foul lines.


It's the same with the refs in every sport, though. In football, two different refs may or may not call holding if they saw the same play, or two basketball refs may not agree on a foul call. Every ump/ref in any sport has his or her particular "style." It may be more readily apparent in baseball, though, because the home plate umpire has such a large presence in the game.

I'm not against introducing replay to baseball, but there obviously has to be some limitations. Like in football, replay shouldn't apply to certain aspects. If replay were used in baseball, I think it should only be used to review calls in the field, such as determining whether or not Howard caught that ball in the air, or whether or not Utley beat out that throw to first. There has to be some sort of risk for using replay as well so that it doesn't get out hand, like in football where you get charged a timeout if you make an incorrect challenge. Maybe it could cost you an out instead. I don't think replay or other "assistance" should be used on calling balls or strikes.
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#2130427 - 10/31/09 09:45 PM Re: Official MLB 2009 Thread [Re: Bridog6996]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
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It was all Philly at first tonight, and then it was almost all New York.

Yanks up 2-1.

Best,

Geoff
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