Hello All,
My first post here, but have been viewing and digesting information from here for nearly a year now. Thanks due to Ethan for such input and allowing so much free information.

I have now just finished building a new office which will double as a listening room. (approx size 6m length x 5m wide x 4m high)
On top of this will go the ceiling joists which are 300mm (12") wooden I beams.
I still have the option to have a prety much 'open' ceiling by putting insulation between the joists and then covering with whatever I want to - so I can bass trap, low and high trap the entire ceiling if so required.
My two questions for now are - Supposing I do plasterboard (sheetrock) the ceiling, where the wall meets the ceiling I am going to put trapping all the way round the room - using 4" rockwool which will also be the same as in all 4 vertical corners. Should I leave this part of the ceiling uncovered with sheetrock or not - this would allow sound to travel further up into the ceiling between the joists? Please note, the joists and upper floor (22mm chipboard) will be completely sealed and as airtight as possible to stop flanking noise to the rest of the building. All voids will also be stuffed with 'fluffy' fibreglass as well.
The entire ceiling - what are your thoughts on prety much turning the entire thing into various traps? Would it be worthwhile or just wasting money?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.

Steve.

Steve,

What would be your purpose in putting plaster board on the ceiling at all? If you don't need it for sound isolation or heat insulation, I wouldn't even bother. Just put insulation between all the joists and cover with fabric or whatever. And if you do need sound isolation, leaving off plaster board around the perimeter will compromise the isolation.

--Ethan

Hi Ethan,
Thanks for that - my 'in best Baldrik voice' cunning plan was to place the plasterboard up between the joists to form traps of various sorts, and as you suggest, cover the entire ceiling with fabric of some sort, I was just uncertain as to if it would actually provide 'to much' trapping as a whole.
Looking forward to finally hear what it sounds like in the end.

Adding a question to a question here, if all the walls are going to be trapped to prevent standing waves, early reflection, etc., would the ceiling be a candidate for deflection/diffusion in order to utilize otherwise wasted sound to fill the room more evenly? I'm in a similar situation.

Diffusion on a ceiling makes sense 1) if the ceiling is high, and 2) not at loudspeaker reflection points.

--Ethan

Thanks, that'll contribute greatly to my planning phase. Could you please quantify "high"; is 8 foot too short to benefit?

Yeah, an 8 foot ceiling needs absorption. Maybe if you had 15 feet...

--Ethan

I've got an awfull lot of traps to be building over the next three weeks by the look of it then <wry smile> damn my 12'!

Does the fact that I'm a really short guy figure into this?

Hello Ethan,
Thanks for the advice so far - it is much appreciated. The building of the traps and the incorporation of many of them into the ceiling is due to start in the next week or so.
I went to the suppliers today of the rigid fibreglas panels, and they have panels of 'RW6' @ 145Kg per M^3, which I propose to use for most of the infill in the panels and some of the boundary traps @4" thick(rear corners and the ceiling / roof interface)
They also have to order and have offered to get for me panels that are 200 Kg per M^3 (!) as I said the more mass the better... I have thought these may prove to be rather usefull for the front corners and front ceiling / wall interface? Is this too heavy though? 4" of this is going to be the equivalent of an awful lot of the '703'!

200 kg/m3 is very dense. I've never tried anything that dense so I can't say for sure. It's probably okay though.

200 kg/m3 is very dense. I've never tried anything that dense so I can't say for sure. It's probably okay though.

Well it started some weeks ago - fairly easy to do, but takes a while. The ceiling is being constructed entirely as a trap ( see photos) with the entire ceiling / wall join being also 100% trapped. This juction has not been easy to work with as I have some roof truss ties (2" thick steel bars) which are very much in the way at the front of the room - but this has hopefully been overcome with a very large trap - photos of that when its done.
The ceiling is made of engineered 'I' beams, 12" high, so th 4" rockwool sits between these, and each cell is completely sealed. Yes, I have used a LOT of caulk doing this job (100 tubes & counting)but I want it to completely correct to start with - I cant afford to go back and rectify problems later.
On top of each slab of rockwool sits 2"x2" timber, sealed and screwed to the joists. This forms the air gap. On top of the 2x2 sits a sealed and screwed piece of 5/8 plasterboard (drywall), then this is topped with 6" of 'fluffy fibreglass, and finally sealed with caulked and screwed 3/4 plywood. I hope this is going to work...

Most of the panels are made to reflect highs with Kraft paper stuck to the facing of the slabs - with this much trapping I figured I could kill the room rather easily, and as it is intended to be a nice office / listening room, dead is not what I wanted.
Some pics to date :-

Well its been a while so I thought I'd post a quick up-date and a few pics.
With a holiday over the christmas season, followed by a week at CES in Vegas, then a bout of (very bad!) man flu - progress has been painfully slow on this project.

At last the ceiling was finished and fully sealed off. Boy did the last bit going in make a difference to the sound of the room!



All of the exposed white timber will be clad in natural oak over the next week or so..

Then the framing out to get rid of those pesky building ties once and for all began.



This will of course be 'mirrored' on the opposite wall to keep symetry.
Then the filling with rockwool begins - this is going to be a fairly serious bass trap - 2.5 cubic metres (per side) of rockwool had better have an effect!



At last some colour starts to appear in the room...



More to come, but I feel the home straight is now in sight.

As another quick note - some on here have struggled to find just what to face the rockwool with instead of the 'frk' that is not available in some places.
Here in the UK I have used plain rockwool, then covered one of the faces with simple 'Kraft Paper' which is fairly easy to obtain from a packaging supplier. This is fine for most instances, but when 'bright' fabric was to used as the outer a white facing was needed.
Much head scratching ensued as white 'Kraft' is not generally available and would be a special order from a paper mill - ouch time on the wallet. A very, very simple solution came to mind. I went to my local decorating wholesaler and asked for some thick lining paper. Perfect! 750mm wide, 20m long roll, and the thickness of thin card - and very white! This is what is behind the coloured panels in the photos to provide reflection of mid/high frequencies.
Hope this is of use to you guys - should this go into the source for local suppliers? Happy to do so if you think helpfull.
Cheers.

Yes, almost any heavy paper or card stock will work fine.

So the route from this



to this



Seems to have taken an absolute age - a snail could have worked faster - but illness and available time have had an unfair advantage.
Anyways, I seem to be keeping Knauff insulation in business at the moment, as every trap you see here is filled solid with 705 or at least it's equivalent, & trust me, that is a lot of rockwool. Had a bit of fortune in finding my stockist having a stock clearout and about to put a load of rockwool into a skip (it never made it to the skip..) and also a recent initiative by the government to get more folk buying insulation saw standard rolls of insulation fibreglass going for £3.50 per 1.2m high roll. In it's wrapped / compressed form this was very close to 705 so some 20 rolls were purchased for a bargain price. The fun part was keeping it compressed by using our box strapping machine to put straps up each roll every 12" or so. Then getting all the plastic wrapping off without dislodging the wraps. This did produce rolls that vary slightly in desity from less to more from the outside > in as it does expand slighty when the wrapping is removed - these have been used to fill some of the traps. Photos of these will follow as the cameras batteries died.

This centre trap



is 1.2m square and is at 35 degrees to the wall. Faced with cotton cloth over thin card, and the base is still 11' from the floor - which should give some idea to scale.

The terrible roof ties are now truly hidden for ever, and the final bugbear of the thick beam is now finally being covered. This is not an easy task, and would have been better if it didnt need doing - but knowing just how bad a big beam running across a listening room can be, decided it had to go.






One question still sticks in my mind.
I have done this from the very begining, and have no idea just what difference (if any) all these traps have made on the room. Part of me realy wants to know how the room will measure when finally finished from the listening chair - but that would mean the purchase of a mic - (phantom power? -whats all that about!) pc programs and a heap of other stuff - would I be better off just knowing it will sound better than built without any traps?
Still that part of me wants some sort of a 'measured' answer I guess!

Nice!

As for measuring, it does not have to be expensive or difficult. Any of these microphones work well:

Comparison of Ten Measuring Microphones

Here's some recommended software:

ETF, Windows, $150

FuzzMeasure, Mac, $150

Room EQ Wizard, Windows and Mac and Linux, Freeware

This article explains how I use ETF, but the principles apply to all such programs.

--Ethan

Well I guess the inquisitive side of me will win out in the end & I will be buying that stuff - I'll try & make a list later & you can let me know if it's complete or not. The software looks easy enough for me to master - we will see!

A little bit more has been done to the room, starting with the righthand front corner trap, this is 9' high and 18" square (well, its metric equivalent) :-

Framing begins




Trial fit of some rockwool



Panels completed ready for final fit



Oh joy - more unwrapping of rockwool - truly not a fun task.
Needed to be done as the front pannels are all lined with paper.





Even though they have been tightly wrapped with wraps, they still expand a lot - so much that the panels dont want to fit any more... so some gentle persuausion needs to take place in the shape of 3x1 :-




and then you run out of timber, it's 4.55pm and you want to finish (sprayed with water to remove creases)



- but the next day -



Worked out what happened there - there is a max number of links per post and the above reached the limit - the rest are now below..

Well I dont know whats happened there - I guess I ran outa room?

Heh, looking good though!

War can now start on the rear third of the room - still plenty to make here -



Starting framing out -







Then adding more panels and filling full of 705...







The rear corner trap will be fun (as is now nearly done, but more pics (if you want to see?) can follow.

This room had better sound good..

Hi again,
No pics this time as I left the camera at work & I've had a bottle of wine with dinner - so they can wait a while.
Back wall is now framed out, two top corner traps built and lights are fitted inside them. 4 more large wall/ceiling traps built with 4" 120kg rockwool to help make the RFZ, so only two more traps to build and i'm done at ceiling height. That then leaves first reflection points and the walls. Oh -and some wiring in of sockets and desk building.

Ethan, I have tried to list here what I 'assume' I will need to measure the room acoustically :-

Computer + one of the suggested programs.
Microphone + stand.
Connecting cable from mic to pc (help needed here please - what exactly do I need or does the mic come with one? Its way outside of my usual work remit so I dont know.)
What is the 'Phantom power' supply i've been reading about for a mic - is one needed?

I 'think' that is what I need?
I have read the links several times now so I hope to get a hang of it quickly.

Yet more hands on learning to be had I guess, I wont permanently fix the wall traps till measurements are taken to see the best placement - as I'm going to the expense of getting this stuff!

PS - fibreglass rash/itch is now taking its toll on my arms and face, no matter about gloves and respirator - fun or what.
The room is looking good though - and I just ordered my speakers to go in it, so it now has to be done as a matter of urgency.

So a day spent framing out yet more traps produced the following:-
Rear R/H corner trap built, wired with two lights, and filled with 705, then faced with more fabric covered 705.







Then the rest of the rear wall was started on...








One more piece to screw in then the rockwoll can start to go in.

If you decide to do as I have, be prepared to buy loads and loads of this:-



I'm certain it allcomes from the same place (3M?) but the price varies greatly! This is something like tin number 45!
Having said that there is rather a lot of 'traps' in this room now.

Yes, I am aware that the two rear corner traps have effectively now created another two areas that need trapping below them, but the plans are already in place for what to do there - just needs to be slightly later for now.

Yes, exactly.

--Ethan

Another few evenings work and we have a lot more done.

Another panel takes shape. Cut to size, faced with polyester to hide the colour, and then mitred to fit.










Rockwool mysteriously changes colour in the UK?
Yup, gone is the usual yellow green to be replaced by 'burnt straw' Why - your guess is as good as mine. Definately needs covering though as it shows through most material badly.



A few tools that have proven indespensible.



And best of all - the Stanley 'Fatmax' knife - with 'insulation' blade.



Hopefully the last thing a pesky bouncing soundwave sees before deciding that the great soundscape in the sky sounds like a good place to be - the inside of a trap before stuffing with yet more rockwool.



Here we go again:-



Stuffed solid with 705

another 5 metres of traps completed.







so Easter should provide a perfect time to completey finish all the ceiling / wall boundaries.
We will see.

So Easter has been and gone (why - when, I missed it somewher? Hey, I did get Sunday off to have fun with the family)
Easy to press on when the phone doesn't keep ringing and pulling you away from the job in hand.

Two more ceiling / wall traps go in



Then time to start on the final bit - that pesky beam is about to disapear for good - hopefully.



The beam has a total of (roughly) 10 traps on it.



& finishing it all off nicely takes an absolute age - but well worth the effort.



A little more blinding of the wooden I beams with oak, a few more lights to go up and tat particular phase is completed.
That just leaves the walls to be sorted.
Hopefully some neat ideas for that shortly.



I'm happy that this part is now done, and the project appears to be nearing completion.

Quick question for you Ethan,
I am about to start on some traps for the 'back wall' which will be behind the listening position and also some for the first reflection points along the side walls.
From a post some time ago I have some plans that put the low bass wood fronted absorber inside a heavy duty mid/high absorber - this makes for a fairly thick panel but I have the room. Is this a worthwhile option, or should I just stick with the standard 3-4" thick 705 in a trap for these applications?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Room is 6m long, 5m wide, and as you've seen 4.1m high.
Front wall will be kept reflecting as you suggest in the faq etc, but some traps will be on there as we need to put up some 'logos' which will be printed on canvas, and then mounted onto a couple of traps.

I'd use rigid fiberglass on the rear wall. If you can make it six inches thick that will be better. And a foot thick is better still if possible.

--Ethan

So the last couple of days has seen me playing with lots and lots of connectors and a fair few wires:-
This is just lighting distribution, after it's been dimmed/controlled from the main board!



But the room is now truly coming into shape





Plans almost complete for those rear wall traps and the first reflection points - that is going to be wallet emptying if I go for the 12" (2x6") rockwool option... boy, that stuff aint cheap!

Not so much apparent progress this week as lots of tiny things sorted, as well as running the main businesses, but some interesting plans are now set in stone.



The first reflection points on this wall plus its facing one are going to be 6 traps (three each side) 1.2m high by 600mm wide. 4" solid rs100 (705 equavalent) - but they need to be movable along the wall due to various speakers / positions being in use. This will be achieved by making up some 2.4m runners out of 25mm thick MDF for the top, and some fixing panels along the bottom. Pictures of this will help to explain:-



Note te 45' angle cut into the upper runner.
When set in place it will become clear - I hope.

Started to knock together the oak window frame - opposite which is going to be a matching diffusor board as per Ethans plans on here. Bendy MDF is going to be usefull here I think - way easier to use than 1/4 ply.




My wood supply is now much depleted and needs a restock to make all the final traps - 6 for the side reflections and 4 for the rear refection free zone.




Put the HVAC unit into place to mark the piping and ductwork.
tomorrow is going to be interesting as I have to cu a 90mm hole through 31" of solid victorian brickwork. Diamond core drill sorted, pain killers for the tennis elbow already to go...

& I just discovered that we didnt put in any wiring for the HVAC control unit (I didnt know we were getting a programmer unit with it). Some headscratcing going on as I don't want visible wiring to it at all - everything else is hidden so far. I have a feeling holes and string are to be needed, and a few mice?

One good thing about this model is it a 'heat pump' so as well as cooling (air con) it can act as a heater (aircon in reverse) so for every 1Kw I put in I get three out on cool & 5 out(!) on heating. It also runs very quietly at 22db. Its on a seperate phase to everything else so it aint going to upset the mains either!

Hope to be back over the weekend with another update.

Looking good!

So the day started with a job I will admit to having been put off several times due to the fact I knew it was going to be a right 'pig' to do. Drilling a 90mm hole through the walls was never going to be pleasant.
So to the hire shop to collect all the gubbins - huge drill, diamond core, extension piece, transformer, water pump...To drill through the aircrete block took all of twenty seconds - with plenty of dust...
The air gap took considerably less.
Then, an hour of patient drilling (this thing is heavy and needs full support at a 3 degree downward angle (to allow water condensate drainage) along with a lot of help from my brother in law - produced a near perfect result. Didnt even wreck the outside render, just cut through it.
Looks like nothing in the photo.







Then on to getting that 'other wire' into place as well. Some heavy bolts, gravity and a lot of string did the trick! (no mice this time)




Then on with the next big one for the day - starting to put up the support for the side traps. 1" thick MDF is very heavy - an 8 x 4 sheet is not something to move by youself - let alone saw up

This is just 2.4m x 150mm and being held precariously in place by a sigle 3" screw ready for marking for ten frame ties.



Then the tie holes were pilot drilled, whole thing taken down, correct size holes drilled, anchors inserted, then back up it goes to have the ten huge screws put into place. The screwdriver for these is so big it is turned with a 15mm open ended spanner!

Holes then filled and ready for rubbing down.



Then finished off the window frame, started on the blinding of the door lintel, and tidied up the light switch.



Yes, this corner is going to get more trapping in to it - in a while.

Time for lunch...

The job for the afternoon was something I have actually been looking forward to starting. The Diffusor panel for opposite the window.
Bendy MDF anyone?



It's secret revealed:-



Whilest it is fun to do, it is a swine to work with, as it just wont stop still! Trying to cut it on the table saw by myself was hilarious. Yes, realy hilarious. It was so much fun I decided to do it again, and again...

So the diffusor starts to take shape:- Ok so not exactly the shape I wanted,



So in goes a centre support panel.



That centre piece is 8" high - it had better be right as it aint coming out...

And after finally getting it (about) right (without a huge amount of maths and 3.142 stuff the measurements were never going to be perfect with this stuff) trying to get it to stay still for fixing / gluing? Ever tried to work with wood that wants to be jelly?




Thats one side glued up, the other can wait for tomorrow, then it can be primed ready for an interseting paint finish I have in mind.
We will see.

PS - I do need to apologies for the mixed measuring system I seem to be using. Two things here. I was one of those kids who went to school when 'metrication' was introduced (anyone else remember that?) So I do actually use both in my working life, depending on just what i'm up to. I am also aware that you folk over the pond still use imperial, so I do try and slip into that when I can. Just 90mm doesn't have a nice equivalent. Hope you dont get to confused.

A couple of more hours today saw a few things happen.
First off, after so much yesterday, I decided I needed to use that tool that no self respecting DIY person should be without in his garage - the fork lift truck.

This raised the diffusor panel to a height that saved my back and kness no end.



Panel taking shape nicely, and being sealed with white paint for starters.



Then sanded the trap holder and painted that so it looks like it grew there..



Then on with the decorative paint for the panel.



The rest of the day was taken with having a good clear up, dust removal and tool finding expedition having put so many down just where I cant find them again (age?)

Started to line whats left to do with oak, and put some skirting round the room.

Thats it for now - need some wine and food - in that order!

Wow, this is all really great Steve! Thanks for going to all the trouble to document and photograph your progress here.

--Ethan

hallo,

writing from Portugal.my first post here after sometime reading the various threads. Great forum and special greetings to Ethan Winer for sharing his knowledge.

have one question about the type of vertical corner basstraps built by Steve2701.

My question regards comparing these with the simple ones made with a fiberglass or rockwool panel across the corner.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each type and what to pay attention to when building the same type Steve2701 built. This type is less documented in the www.

thanx, all the best

Hi Andrep,
I doubt there will be a whole heap of difference between the two - I just took 'the easy route' and built square ones and filled them solid - as per photos.
It was for me much easier to do (and I had the space to do it in) as it seemed to be a lot of hassle cutting timber to 45degree angles to keep it all looking / faced the same where the rockwoll meets the wall. Mine are 750mm (18")square and 9feet (3m) tall, so thats a a fair bit of rockwool in the corner.
From what I've gathered from here the total amount of the corner and its volume is the more important issue.
It was also very important to me to have the best finish I could obtain in the room, this is what I ended up with.
I will post some more photos of the totally finished item later this week when some mor finishing timber is delivered!

Staying over for a couple of hours after work saw a mock up of the hanging first reflection points traps being made



I have designed these to be movable but firmly fixed when in place. An 8mm handwheel nut will hold them in place at the bottom, while the top opposing 45 degree angles seem to work rather well and look fairly neat.
A small amount of 25mm at the bottom acts as a standoff and resting place for the bottom of the trap.







This mock up will allow for precise layout of the bottom runner / support.

An hour or so to spare so one of the front bass traps decides to become covered in oak -

Bare to start:-



Oak ready for cutting up - looks criminal to cut this up



Mdf demands serious dust extraction and air filtration - great stuff - but dust not exactly so.



First of many cuts




& nearly a whole sheet later



& A little bit of skirting to finish


Tomorrow will see the thin edges finished and the centre 'trunk' being made to look smarter..

Then oak angle hides all the exposed edges.

that is all looking good! bravo!

Its been a good few days since I was able to get back into the room to press on, a big trade show saw us working on stock for it, going to it and then putting everything away after the event..

So, a few evenings late at work saw the side wall diffusor (for opposite the window) finally looking like it's almost ready



& the front corner bass traps took on a waist each and were lined with finishing oak panells (this takes forever - lining up grain and trying to make everything look right is not something that can be done in a hurry and got right.



Two hours on each side equalls a finish that I am happy with.



Then we found time later this afternoon to finally get the diffusor into it's new home and fully finished. This was not a job for the feint hearted!



It doesn't look that big now it's in place, but it is nearly 6' tall and 4' wide. It was not exactly a light object either.

The next week will see frenetic work going on as the room simply must be finished by the end of May - new toys arrive in a few weeks time, and work is set to go crazy mid way through June.
Only a dozen or so traps to be built and all the final wiring to be done!

The 'frenetic' work had to start in earnest today, as confirmation arrived that interesting packages start to arrive on Friday - so this room needs finishing fast!
Not seen here yet - but just found on the hard drive - a picture of what was just a floor some 14 months ago :-



The room needed to be fully emptied and made good for a meeting of a dozen or so folks over the weekend, which happened and went well, and gave an idea of what the room will eventually look like :-






But after such a good clean out I decided I was missing all the clutter and decided to put it all back today just for the fun of it (either that or I needed to put up the rear wall absorbers and get the final finishing of cladding to the ceiling panells)



Making the carcases for the traps began





They only need to be fairly basic as they will be clad in oak next to hide their construction details



Then the cladding can start





and finally the oak angle is cut ready to hide the edges of the rockwool infill



This lot will begin to be hung on the rear wall tomorrow, and some very special traps will begin to take shape as well.
This has been one of the most interesting projects I have ever set out on, and certainly one that has taught me more than I thought it would. I keep reading so many interesting tips on here (some I wish I had a few months ago - but hey, whats done is done!) that I try to incorporate into what is happening right now.
Will post more over the next few days..

Keep 'em coming Steve!

As promissed a few quick updates.
I managed to finish two of the rear bass traps, and at a weight of 17kg each, plus another 11kg of rockwool, they are not the lightest, (or smallest!) items to hang of a wall - 10' up in the air.. The scaffold tower helped, but it was amusing yet again.
The photos dont show just how big these things are, and a small change of plan was decided upon once these were in place:-



A further two were going to be hung horizontally / centrally below these, but that plan has now been shelved as they will simply not look right at all.
Instead one will be hung vertically in the centre of them and below, then another two 'specials' will be hung either side of it - one of which will be in front of the door when in use. These will now be made next week.
In the meantime two rather large (ok, huge) wooden crates arrived today with the first of the goodies for the room in them







They won't be coming out of these till the room is finished, but I cant wait to hear what they are going to sound like when in place.
Any ideas on how to get them upstairs? 105Kg (231lbs) apiece should prove to be entertaining, at least for a while.
Sorry - they are Dynaudio Confidence C4.

So all hell breaks loose and yet more traps get made; I could do this with my eyes shut now!
Even ran out of clamps so had to call in the specials for extra duty.



& another 22kg (45lb) of rockwool is readied t go up on the wall.



And another facing piece takes shape. I think I've been here before too.





While this is going on I'm also sorting out the mains supply for the room, with some decisions being made on what goes where, and what feeds what - more on that if anyone wants to know at a later date.

This weekend will see a little bit more done, but real work has to take place as someone decided to place an order yesterday that needs fitting on Monday, ... so much for warning!

Another weekend at work, including a full 9 hours today - means a little bit more got completed.
Some of the work was on the electrics - (I'll put these on a seperate post) while this isn't the forum to discuss this - I will just show you what I'm up to and what goes on 'juice wise' for the room.
So yesterday the centre rear wall panel finally got hung :-



& back today saw the first of four 'specials' begin to take shape.



Those with sharp eyes will notice that this is very different in size to the standard 1.2m x 600mm... infact it's a very odd 74.2mm wide.

While this was being allowed time for the glue to set - the electrics took over. (see next post)

Then, this afternoon, it got put into place. Rather than just put it into permanent place, I needed this one to be moveable, so some old woodwork techniques were called into use.
When was the last time you saw a plug and screw morticer used? Me too!

One for the top, and one as a support:-



& on the rear, studs cut out to cover the screw holes.



Me 'n Heath robinson would get on well together don't you think?




So finally screwed into place
It's position is decided by the distance from the panel to it's left, and the fact that a 'free standing' unit will cover the door when serious listening is taking place.




Time to start stuffing it with rockwool - each piece needed to be cut to size - a bit of a jigsaw in the end. As it's designed to be 6" thick, two pieces of 3" thick are placed one on top of the other, a total of 12 pieces in the end used to fill the carcase completely.





Then covered in polyester to provide some soft fill (2 layers)



Then as this time I need a dark background - some black fibreglass porous cloth (as used in weed control in gardens) covers the polyester



& finally (drum roll please)
A rather special printed polyester cover - yes, it's acoustically transparent, well, very nearly.
& your going to have to see the next post as I've run out of allowed photo space on this particular post!

I think I can call it a 'Music Room' now!
I have a few other of these fabric posters - The best of Pink Floyd, the famous ladies in PF's 'Back catalogue' then I have two black & white posters in the shape of an original Dead Can Dance poster and a beautiful art print of BB King. That is going to keep me busy for an hour or two.
This will be fully stretched and edge finished tomorrow - one to allow the creases to fall out overnight, and two, it was 4.30 on a Sunday afternoon and dinner was nearly ready!


Dog walking duties now - so will post the next install shortly.

The electrics.
It's not just you recording guys that need nice clean electric - us lot that listen to your efforts need it just as much - but that is often overlooked or even poo poo'ed.
I am seriously lucky here, as out in the street we have an 11,000volt supply. In the yard, 15m from my door is a massive transformer that just feeds our five units. 11,000v is transformed down to 415v three phase and fed into each individual unit.
I have kept one of these phases 'clean' and just for use with the 'HiFi'. For the near future I have two massive balancing transformers being sorted. One @30Kva (30,000 volt/amps) and one @ 25Kva. The larger will just feed the power amp(s) and the smaller will feed all the ancilaries - cd plyer, preamp, vinyl spinner etc.
The clean feed is fed to the main music room ditribution board via 10mm^ (^=square) SWA cable (Steel wire armoured) I had this done on purpose, as the steel armour is grounded to earth at the supply end, and terminated into a plain 'stuffing gland' the the other. This effectively makes the armour into an RFI shield. Well, at least that's the theory...
The distribution board will feed 14 seperate spurs via individual sockets and seperate circuit breakers - all either 6mm^ or 4mm^ rather than the standard 2.5mm^
Overkill - possibly, but I am aiming at the lowest possible impedance on the supply lines. (I wanted a 25mm^ feed but the sparky just looked at me in despair when I requested that!)
All of these individual feeds will be in braided sheathed flex, so again, RFI will be rejected.
Terminating all this braided screen is a right royal PITA but will be worth it long term, hopefully!
After being fully tested the DB has a path to earth of a mere 0.04ohms - I wish I had that at home..
To the business end :-
A rather full DB, only five in place, 9 more to go!



These two are 6mm^ superflex and feed the front centre of the room - two because maybe one day when I win the lottery I can go mono-block (PLEASE). A third will be added later in the form of a 13A plug socket. This pair of wires will be fed into the room & terminated in IEC sockets which can then feed directly into the power amps - that gets rid of two nasty electrical interfaces in one go! (Plug/socket and plug/fuse) Legal and fully checked by certified sparkies! Please remember that in the UK the fuse in the plug protects the supply CABLE - here the circuit breaker is doing that and the cable is fully able to take anything the breaker can give it before it trips.





After over an hour of very carful drilling with a taper drill, and 0.5mm before it was finished - this happened.



Lets say I wasn't exactly pleased.
So I went back downstairs and did a bit more to the 'Stairway' bass trap..

Decided that I could make one better myself - so here we go



Cut and marking out to take the glands. Thats a magnifying centre punch you can see sat on top of the laminate - usefull with black lines on a dark grey background.



These glands only have a 7mm backthread, so I need to counter bore the 20mm thick laminate rather substantially, not a problem as I use some custom cutters in my job..



15 minutes with a pillar drill and taper drill sees a finished item ready for black french polishing of the edges.



Mine Vs a shop purchased plastic jobby...



& finally sealed into place with intumesant acoustic sealant..
A little later the bare cable will be over fitted with coulured braid and have its plug fitted.



Having seen how to make these, and how good it looks - means I only have another thirteen to make. Oh my... what have I started again?

Will this room ever be finished?

More nice boxes arrive in 4 days time.

My wife would like to see me at home once in a while..

Can't tell you how inspiring this thread is. My hat is off to you for the fine detail with which you have loaded up your studio construction but also this thread. Thank you - and I'll continue to watch in the background.

Not a huge amount to show this week, as not much time was available to get into the room.

Most of the work is now 'fine detail' finishing off, but without it the room will never look right.

So 'Stairway' trap is given its finished look


Then that beautifully tidy room of a couple of weeks ago is completely filled again.



Finally the very last pieces of glue lam beams are cloaked with finish oak



Plans are now finalised on what to do with these two back corners




And my wife has veryy kindly made curtains for the window - which will be fitted next week.

One thing I would do differently if ever I do this again is not cut these support timbers at 45' They may look good, but boy are they a challenge to cover.




Several 45' cuts, a couple of 90's and ten minutes on a flat bed sander turns this into a cover :-






And finally a nice cover piece.


Say goodbye to the scaffold! It will only go back up if something is drastically wrong or I made a major****



So next week has the final first reflection traps to be made (x6) a couple more specials, and finish the electrics.

You will see the progress later on.

Thanks for the encouragement guys, it is appreciated.

Well this room simply must be finished for Wednesday - as I need it as an office!
So some decisions were made, and anything that can be added later will now be - but anything 'fixed' in the room simply must be finished - now. I guess some late night wiring up is on the cards..

So some work on the hanging wires starts -





From left to right those are a single socket from the office 'ring main' which also is attached to the phase that runs the freezers and the a/c, so should be considered 'dirty' - going to be fun investigating this.

The next three are plain 6mm^ twin & earth singlr spurs, each to their own individual fuse - and clean phase.

The final three are again 6mm^ but this time shielded - again single individual runs and fuses each.

Time to make another couple of cable outlests as before




& then drilling the final correct size hole with a taper drill



Then making a mess of my nice clean wall and floor





Then put down as much flooring as possible, moved the speakers - checked the lenght of the cable (phew!)





So the front of the room is finished, and the rear 3' is still to be done...

More shortly - and some late night wiring.

Anticipation gave way big style to impatience yesterday as looking at so many nice new boxes / toys and not having any tunes took over.
A 'small rig' was very much jury rigged into service - breaking just about every rule in the 'how to set up a system' book...





What with running off a trailing extension lead sockets, boxes everywhere, no chair - no power sockets, something had to give.
So I finally got home very late last night after wiring in all of the remaining sockets, fitting the supplies to the three phase, checking every socket for polarity, checking every fuse was correct, finally, the system looked like this as I left



Lilly the dog had completely given up on getting home, so had gone to sleep in every place possible that would be in the way (how do they do that?) from at the bottom of stepladders to right where I wanted to stand, but the look of consternation on her face, followed by racing up and barking at a stereo image of a ladies voice (nothing exciting, just a system test disc to check polarity of speakers) had to be seen to be believed - great fun.
So how did it sound?
Well if you have ever powered up a new system from cold, in a new room, where absolutely every cable and connection is new - you will have some idea - not great, but with huge potential.
After 5 hours of constant running and fine tuning the speakers slightly - awsome is a reasonable word for now.
Lots more work today as the main rig begins to take shape, and speaker positioning continues.
Then I better fit that door, build the other traps and order something to sit on!

Oh, & fitting the rest of the carpet may be a reasonable idea as well.

Hey Steve,
your room is a dream for audiophiles like me, both for acoustics and equipment.
If you see the topic of my room, I started listening without the bass traping. After the side-front wall trapping, it seemed that I have removed the equipment and put new gear.
I don't have top class equipment like yours so I can imagine the fidelity you have there (so that your dog start barking to the singer). By the way, I don't see treatment for side-walls reflections.
Congratulations for your amazing space and all the report here.
Another thing, in my country I'm part of an audiophile group and we discuss a lot about what is the most important part of the audio system. Some says it's the speaker, other the pre-amplifier. Now I can say for sure that it is the acoustics.

regards!
Leonardo

Good morning Leonardo,
Thank you for those words.
The equipment is very nice indeed, but thirty years of collecting and some decent fortune has got me to here. I also used to dream of a space like this - some hard work has eventually paid off.
Side wall / early reflection traps are all downstairs awaiting assembly.
Three each side to be hung on those runners you see.
Then another two but covered in music posters (BB King & Dead Can Dance) go under the rearmost wall lights.
Then (hopefully) finally two more hung horizontally above the first reflection point traps covered in the designs of Pink Floyd printed on polyester fabric - check HERE to see more of those.
Finally going to get the 'big rig' set up today, but it cant be in it's correct position yet as some custom length cables are being constructed for me and will arrive next week.

Then I really must finish the flooring and put that door on!

With the experimentation I have done, you are 100% correct in saying room acoustics have the most effect on a 'listening room' but in the vast majority of domestic situations (lets face it, that is where most listening occurs)compromise simply has to be made - most familys wouldnt like my room as a main living room! For one thing a flat screen tv is missing...
The next most important thing (and here I can prove a point, but you would need to come here and listen to understand) is a pair of very well set up speakers - not the 'source' components that most everyone else insits must come first.

Steve,
what you mean with the "very well set up" speakers?

thanks
Leonardo

I would!

Hello Leonardo,
Not easy to explain in so many words, but I refer to well set up speakers as being in their absolute optimum position to give of their finest possible sound, not being placed where they 'must go' with respect to other room furnishings / televisions / cabinetts etc - ie - they come first - everything else must work around them. This is all but impossible to achieve and keep the rest of the family happy!
What they sit on, how they are 'toed in' distance from rear & side walls is all vitally important, and takes a lot of listening and experimentation to get absolutely correct.
The book of rules that says speakers need to be 'x' distance apart and 'y' distance from the rear wall then toed in by 3.75 degrees, with the listening position being 3.87302m from the centreline of the speakers will invariably be correct for one room in the world only - the one that they were sat in when that set of rules were written...
We have just spent the last three hours playing with mine, moving them an inch at a time, and we are getting something close now - but enjoying the music as we do so.
Hope this helps.

Its been a while since my last up-date, so just a few quick lines so that you can see what has gone on this week. It will probably come as no great surprise to read that I am still not 100% finished - but we are a lot closer.

After setting up the small rig, and having some fun with some tunes - the big rig was set out ready for assembly.


& beneath this lot is a custom rack that needs re-assembly.



Three hours of patient work sees this appear



along with all the sphagetti



A bit of fine tuning and clearing up - and I can at last see what it is looking like.



It wont stay like this for long - the top 4 components will reside to the left hand side when a few cables arrive - leaving just the amp between the speakers. That should look better.

Time to press on with the back of the room..

The rear of the room gets the attention now.
The rest of the flooring goes down, and the skirting board is finished off - then its time to sort the rear corner traps.





Due to location of the window, and curtains, an angled trap was out of the question, so solid 8" thick was decided upon.
This is supported on small oak shelves.

My warehouse is now a total wreck and needs a lot of attention!


A corner trap takes shape.



Will I ever stop buying this stuff?


up goes the first trap and the curtain..



And the other corner - somewhat wrinkly for now - but that will soon be sorted.



Thats it for today - I'll take a few more when we are done with finishing the rear traps and start on the assembly of the first reflection points.
It was very noticable that these corner traps had a marked effect on the sound in the room - more than any others so far.

Not surprising at all.

--Ethan

Trust me when I say that part of me would love to hear this room without any treatment then add it bit by bit - but that was never going to be possible.
The addition of just two 8" thick panells had an effect that was immediately apparent to the room - possibly because of everything else in there - possibly not, I have no idea as it's not in my usual realm of work.
It did prove to be extremely interesting though.
What effect the first reflection points have will also be apparent very soon - my plan is to add them in opposing pairs as they are assembled.
What is becoming more apparent as the room and the system progress is that everything is just becoming clearer and clearer.
As of yet I simply cannot say what is happening where. Some components are brand spanking new, all were stone cold but now - 10 days on of 24/7 playing should be begining to settle down. Every wire, connection, breaker etc was new and unused, so I still think time is needed for everything (including my hearing and perception) to settle correctly.
I have been in rooms that are all but 'dead' acoustically and have to say that I dont like them at all - almost sureal in their even being.
This room still seems to be far from dead, but it is exceedinly quiet, which is very peaceful. If it starts to approach dead then I will cease with the addition of traps - but I guess we have a ways to go there yet. Speech in the room is still very intelligible and not strained in any way, music just flows - from almost any position in there.
That is very un-expected.
The speakers are known to not be 'hot spot' specific, but their effect is becoming more enjoyable by the day.
The overall effect has been (and this always proves the point without fail) to completely re-visit my entire music collection, not just sit and listen to one genre for hours on end. I'm certain that those with varying collections and lots of discs know what I mean here - I just have to hear what 'that' track sounds like in here. I still have a few discs to play on that score yet.

A quick hour or so at work allowed the rear corner traps to be 'topped & tailed' - making them look better, fix them where I want them and de wrinkle them.
So that appears to be that for the corners, First reflection points left to do, fit the door and program the lighting.

Steve,
do you plan to burn in your system 24/7? I prefer to do that only when I'm listening to music, to follow each step of the burn in process. It's like to follow the grow up of our children.

You seem to be passing through the "New Collection Syndrome" and so am I. I'm not increasing my CD collection right now. I'm just re-listening CDs and taking advantage on that to do fine tuning of my system.

best regards
Leonardo

Hello Leonardo,
To be honest, I've been through enough system 'burn ins' to be not particularly worried about what it sounds like day by day for the first three weeks or so.
It has now been on 24/7 for nearly two weeks, and has settled down very nicely. Lets say it only gets better from here on in.
The power amp is a year or so old, so only really needed a good warm up, but with so many other components being new it's difficult to say what's doing what!
Going back up tonight to start the assembly of the FRP traps, and probably the freestanding one for the doorway as well.

My CD collection never seems to stop expanding - though I am listening to pleanty of old discs atthe moment.

Time with me has been, as ever, in short supply - part of one of my businesses is heavily linked to the UK fishing season, so that opening again on June 16th has obviously taken up large amounts of any that is available.
I have snatched the occasional hour here & there, and have been able to progress a little.

I decided that the FRP traps would be just the 600 x 1200mm and not have the extra additional 150mm to lock into position on the bottom. The main reason for this being that it would have meant buying yet another 3 sheets of 20mm MDF and would have produced a fair amount of waste.
As each one weighs in @ 24kK when complete, I couldn’t actually see them going far or vibrating in sympathy, so came up with an alternative – white ‘non marking rubber doorstops’…

These turned out to be 10mm short



So a little bit of 10mm MDF spacing cured that





And then the 45^ angle applied to the top





Then the rockwool put in, angle cut to size and glued / clamped up



Today being ‘Fathers day’ I was given a nice 3d metal sculpture by my girls – which got pride of place in the room





Then the first pair of FRP traps got hung into position



& from the listening chair



Now I have done hours and hours of listening in here, ( still got plenty of work to do – but the music simpy calls and I have to respond…)
But today something happened that I have not had in here yet.
I am not saying that the simple insertion of two more traps made this happen, as much as I am certain that fine tuning the seating position did it on it’s own either, - but, especially with the eyes closed and the lights in the ‘listening’ mode (yes, programmed them as well!) music now fills an arena in front of and to either side of me – almost in a huge arc if you will, and the speakers totally, completely and utterly disappear.
That is a very, very neat trick, considering their size.
Disc after disc I tried, and every time the same happened.
Now that’s a real result!
I was aware and have said that I could overkill the room with trapping – getting more and more detail – with less and less musical connection and emotion.
What has occurred is rather weird in that respect.
Emotion aplenty, detail to die for, soundstage that (has to be seen?) heard to understand the wittering in this post, and yet the room is still nowhere near ‘dead’ sounding.

So something is going right.
I honestly can’t say just what these two traps have done, as they went in along with some (very) new interconnect cables.
All I can say is I am absolutely gobsmacked with the overall results to date.

So still more to do this week, but this is getting to be very close to what I truly wanted.
I now know for certain that I want the room to be 3m longer, but that is absolutely impossible, and I am very happy to live with what I now have.

If it still gets better with 4 (7) more traps plus a (very) heavy door – I am hardly going to be upset!

Excellent report. As for clear but not dead, my living room is the same way. The key is mid/high frequency absorption at the reflection points, but not necessarily everywhere else! From the last two photos above it looks like you plan to add a few more side-wall panels. That's a good idea given the size of the room and how far back you listen.

--Ethan

Hello Ethan,
Thank you for those words. It was somewhat of a minefield that I was travelling through, and some extremely expensive mistakes would have been easy to make.
The size of room, ceiling height / construction / what to cover with paper etc to keep the room 'live' all had to be considered and put into plan after all of that. It has taken some 17 months to date, but very well worth it.
Yes, I have 4 more FRP traps to go in, and then one for in front for the door (freestanding design), and possibly 4 heavily covered picture traps (heavy paper artwork / photo prints) that can also go into place. I have the room, time is missing, and also I need to be certain that they are actually 'needed' in there when the main stuff is complete.

As I said - very interesting venture to date, learnt a lot and highly confident the result is going to be what I actually want!

Yet another Sunday, and another weekend + Friday afternoon of bits and pieces being sorted, and also the last of the 'big jobs' got sorted.
First off, another two FRP traps were sorted over the week of evenings, and these got stuffed and hung on Friday afternoon / evening.



& from the 'listening seat' position



When up I did try and do some serious listening, but something weird was going on that I didn't understand.
I had a slight headache, my right ear was playing up (head cold on the way) and a bad morning at work.
All added up to a not nice music experience.
When the two additional traps went up everything seemed to 'close in'. the walls seemed to be 4' closer together, the ceiling too low - you get the feeling. Image seemed to collapse in on itself - and the frequency seemed very 'lumpy'
I am putting this down to the combination of my woes, the system playing up (still comparitively new) and a MASSIVE thunderstorm starting. Water was pouring out of the AirCon unit like a waterfall so humid was the unit.
So I left it and went away to start on something else.

Hanging the door. Not something I was looking forward to, having been 20+ years since I last hung one, and this one is huge - (the biggest commercially available) and being a fire door, not exactly light. Certainly too big for one person to mess with. But no-one else was available. So, laying out the hinges - thickness 2,9mm..




Time then ran out so back later the next day.

Feeling so much better the next day, The door was finally manouvered into position, hinges cut out in door frame, frame re-painted, door fettled and handles / lock fitted. Took in total 11/2 days - so long had it been since I last did this. Still, very happy with the end result. My arms now ache somewhat with moving such a heavy and odly sized item..

From the front of the room looking back



Now that's more like it!



& some pics of the programmed lighting

general on scene



Listening mode 1


listening mode 2



Work mode from front of room



That was enough for a weekend - so some time was spent in front of the system...


I should point out that some proper seating is currently under construction and being covered - that chair is press ganged into action for now!

Did two more traps and a new door do anything for the room?
You better believe it!

Yet another leap forward.
The room can now be properly 'pressurised' by the amp - and I now can get to grips with what is going on exactly.
I have some more exciting times ahead I guess.
This afternoon, from Saint Saens, Sister Bliss, Peter Gabriel, Massive attack, Dead Can Dance, Albioni, Chung playing the four seasons - you have a clue as to what went on for an couple of hours.
Focus, musicality, expression, emotion, recording quality, all there to be experienced.
As for floor shaking bass - hmm - this is fun :-)
By the end of the session the sides of the amp were way to hot to touch - a great sign of someone having fun - and a system playing so clean that the volume can just go up and up and up...

This just gets better and better.

Well it’s been two weeks, and not much done I’m afraid.
I did sneak off on holiday for three days to the Goodwood Festival Of Speed down in West Sussex, which was huge fun – but did nothing for the room whatsoever.

A full week at work left Friday afternoon to start again – so the office ring main was finally fixed and wired in.
How many plugs do you need – hundreds!
Computers, monitors, printer, routers, telephones, answer machines, mobile phone chargers, coffee machines just about everything in the office needs a plug socket – so they all get one with a few to spare – for now.



Then the desk needed to go in.
I must admit that I have never done anything like this before – as it’s built in and very much ‘kitchen fitters’ stuff.
So we got hold of 4metres of ‘breakfast bar’ 4 metres of worktop. Looked at it and went – oh…

Then I borrowed a worktop cutting template from a friend, looked at it – and thought – oh no..
So I gave it to Pete, my brother in law and said - just cut that out for me will you please.

I went upstairs and started to put the support battoning round the corner of the room while Pete read the instructions.
What do you know – an hour later, battoning up – worktops cut to size, routered to shape, holes cut for biscuits and compression bolt fittings – we were ready to go.



Cut some holes for wire breakout points, then started to level and fit.





Got ready to glue everything up –and made a right mess in my nice room.




I owe Pete a beer or three! Impressive or what. Considering neither of us had even seen or used anything like that template before. Went together very nicely, even though I got glue everywhere.





These things, just like the door, are heavy, unwieldy and a pain to work with on your own (it’s the next day by now) but I do intend to move fully in here next week, so today and Sunday this gets done – or I’m office less.





Lots of odd stuff gets pressed into use – they can all adjust to height, hold a lot of weight, and were available in the warehouse!
Not exactly pretty, but it worked.

Each one of those white bags weighs in at 12.5K (25 lbs) and contains size9 lead shot (another project) and are just perfect to hold down the back edge – and later to hold the backstop in place.

A couple of more pics in the next post finish off todays work, then (hopefully) tomorrow the desk gets finished.
Then next week it's back on topic and some more traps and other stuff get to go in place. At least thats the plan.

I’m looking for a fairly ‘minimalist’ look to the desk & office section – the listening part is extremely serious and needed.

So, to hold this lot up – how?
I hadn’t fully decided on what to do, as I wanted to make a final view when I saw what the top looked like.
With a side panel in it looks great to me – but how to hold the top in place at the same time?



Some old fashioned woodwork took over here – along with some reasonably accurate measuring.

Dowels were the chosen method, but not having a dowling jig made this not such a great idea. So I knocked up something that would do the job and kinda hoped it would be accurate enough.



Would these eventually line up? There’s an awful lot of holes there.









With a lot of body parts crossed everything was offered up to see if it would go back together,



After a small amount of persuasion with a rubber mallet everything went back together and actually looked pretty good.

Decided that it would be wise to let the glue dry before taking everything away – so twenty minutes in the listening chair then home.

Tomorrow will see the other end sorted, and the one under the window go into place.

LOL, that's great!

As promised yesterday – a quick update on todays efforts.
Well the desk is now finished – the final end leg put in place the same way as the first – and as the first one went so well and stood up to a bit of weight being put on it I was happy enough.
The worktop under the window also got put into place, and it’s end panel will go in tomorrow evening.
Managed to run out of ‘upstand’ for the rear & sides, so need to order in a bit of that as well.

You may have also noticed that the listening and work chair finally made it back into the room. It’s starting to come together nicely now.

I hope next time to have completed another three traps – we will see.



Glue went off ok and it was still standing this morning.



Talk about working in a mess.



Side panel being prepped for final fitting.







The room as I left it this afternoon.
Very close to completion now.

Managed to grab a couple of late nights already this week, so the desk and wortop are finished, and the fianl two FRP traps are also complete and just need stuffing with rockwool, which will happen on Thursday - so by the end of the weekend I should have a complete room to work in. I have a combined draw / filing cabinett to go under the desk, and a printer to go on top - along with the pc - then thats the lot.

As I left tonight:-







Lets see what happens.

Well isn’t it just fantastic, how, in this amazing computer age, at the mere click of a button, you can lose nearly twenty minutes of typing and correction. Ok, I’m not the fastest – but I doubt I can remember everything I said, or the order it was in – Fangled darn pc’s – my is labelled ‘There’s bound to be problems in here’ and as true to life – it sure lives up to its name.

So – as can be seen from the pictures below, the final two FRP traps are now in place.
The ‘big job’ for the weekend is still work in progress as time went crazy this weekend (anyone got a spare tardis or a time bandit please?)

Just before these went into place a good friend and myself had a nice long listening session. So that I could accurately assess what, if any differences these new panels would make.

I have been listening on and off for an hour here and there, for weeks now – but the system has been on 24/7 during the last month, and some huge (monumental to me) changes have occurred – mostly recently I would guess.

Anyone that does not ‘believe’ in this or regards it all as rubbish should stop reading right here. I don’t want you spluttering all over your keyboard and making a right mess. This is my evaluation of what has happened to my system in my room – and yes, I am absolutely certain of what I am hearing – OK!

When the system was new and went into action, a lot of things were far from great. Passable, but not at all what I was looking for.
Leading edges to piano notes, strident treble on trumpet, horrible raggedness to high violin tones, snare / high hat that is painful on the ears – I had all of that, thank you.

Now – non of it. At all. If a note is played ragged and rough – then it still is, but smoothness is now an accurate description.
Snare hits start and stop on a sixpence (Dime?), rim shots hit you between the eyes, piano sounds sublime, and violin can just bring tears to the eyes – easily.

If I have a noisefloor – then I can’t seem to find it – it may be made of glass?
Quiet passages of music are exactly that – the space and apparent ‘air’ around notes makes everything readily identifiable and easy to delineate in space.

If music is well recorded then huge sounstages can be portrayed, as can dynamic range (almost scarily so)
The system can now go very, very loud – it is just so clean – and nothing distorts at all. I am being very careful here as I don’t want to induce deafness or tinitus, but having a well miked drum kit – live in the room – or a church organ on its 16’ bass pedal, I have never had this before, so I’m having some fun.

Why have I put this in this forum?
As it would not be like this at all without the treatment the room has. It’s that simple.

Add a further two traps to the mix and what happens?
More subtle this time.
More detail, slightly more image definition, extra clarity, yet no loss of musical emotion – at least as far as I can tell.
Bass notes are easily better again – appear slightly ‘quieter’ but this is down to them being heard as they should be – not echoes of them as well?

What is very apparent is that the room is now right on the ‘point’ as in just about anything else and the room will start to become over dead.

Speech is now at the point of being ‘weird’. Everything starts and stops very abruptly – no reverberation whatsoever from just about anywhere in the room.

I like the overall effect so far – it is eternally peaceful in there, and obviously exceedingly quiet (should nothing be playing) and just leaving the system running overnight means I come into a very warm room next day, so much is the insulation in there.

While working under the desk (I had to screw up the desktops somehow!) it was very apparent that a lot of bass buildup was happening in the corners (no surprises there then) so I may well put something in here – it won't be visible – but may well do something to help.

So I’m moving in here next week, and starting to work from here. Music will be a distraction, but so what.

Already I’ve been looking at putting in some diffusion (somewhere??) as a way of livening up the room very slightly, without taking away anything of what I have achieved. At least that would be the plan.
The last time I saw quadratics was as a schoolboy, when I used to swear at them and wander just what the hell I could ever use them for – it would appear I now have an answer to that one.
So it’s looking like this journey is not actually over yet – by some way.
Lets see – it is an interesting experiment if nothing else.

Fabulous, just fabulous. Another true believer.

Today allowed me chance to start what I so wanted to finish last week - the final programmed (albeit moveable) bass trap.
I was never going to be able to complete it in the time I had - but decided to give it my best shot, then try and find time in the evening to put the finishing touches to it.

I am so looking forward to seeing if this does prove to be the final part in the jigsaw.
I now have deep rooted doubts that it is - but this room is sounding so good that it is difficult to perceive any further improvement.

Back to today :-
Pulling together the parts for the free standing trap.
An off cut from next door, turned into something of a connecting upstand part.




upright





Centreing rear upright connector to the baseplate.

Finished basplate



Attaching centre upright support to the baseplate.
Accuracy = everything. This will affect vertical and horizontal aspects.





Seems to have worked.



Attaching trap to stand. Again accuracy = everything.



I appear to have constructed a wooden 'Cyberman'!



Trap on stand with moving handles attached.

Stuffed! 705 equivalent - 6" thick solid. 18mm thick mdf rear. 30mm mdf upright. All oak covered as per usual.

Have I done this before?



& as I finished tonight - close but no cigar.

I needed dinner and to see my family.



So what is it with the doubts?
A project like this , especially one that involves a fair amount of 'trial and error' inevitably involves some reading. Especially if your anything like me.
The front wall behind the speakers and kit is now the only fully 'live' wall left in there, and I have no intention of changing that. Enough traps = enough traps, & I think I am very close to that. (I have other ideas here, but more on that later) - much later!
But how live is live? Would diffusor live be better than standard wall?
How about a 6' by 6' quadratic diffusor panel behind the equipment stack? (Found a nice plan for one of those on the net - a whole 18" deep... bet that would be fun to make - and not weigh a lot (rolleyes)but would it help?)
Or how about TWO of those - side by side (reversed in construction) to make a 12' wide diffusor x 6' high? Would it pull the wall down?
Or would a diffusor similar in construction to the one oposite the window (remember that bendy mdf fun?) and 4' wide x 6' high behind the stack, followed by a 6' x 6' quadratic on either side be better?
Would this be complete overkill? Something tells me no - this will work and help a lot.
Any thoughts guys?
Oh - my wife wants her office decorated first before I even begin to think about any of this stuff - apparently.

I may be opening a whole new can of worms here, but it looks like an interesting idea?

I did start to work out the amounts of mdf needed to make that quadratic -> ouch!
You wouldn't want that to fall on your toe.

A diffusor on the front wall can help a little, but the actual portion behind the gear will not do much. If it were me I'd make it large anyway, and center it vertically at ear height. Little will be "wasted" behind the gear.

--Ethan

As can be seen below, I finally moved into the new office completely this week. After much hassle with telephone connections, ADSL lines, where to put a new printer, siting of the filing cabinet and shelves - all finally resolved and then managed to manhandle the final trap into the room.
I have now had time with a few friends in there as well, and was able to gauge reaction from everyone that has been to visit.
All has been positive so far. The room does not overpower anyone, in fact most feel right at home very, very quickly, and almost immediately start to ask if I can play x, y, z, etc - which usually ends up with a nice music playing session. Within moments all the kit and room is forgotten about (exactly as I would have wished) and music takes over. I dont think I can ask for more than that.
So does the final trap do anything?
Well it is becoming very difficult to say now - as there is so much in there. Yes it does have an effect that is positive - but to be honest perfect placement is not imperative with it - probably because of everything else as well.
It has become aparent to me that the volume control now needs to go up somewhat more than it used to to get to a certain level, but once that level is reached - it is way, way better than it was before everything went in. I hope that makes sense?
My guess would be an awful lot is being absorbed in the room rather than being reflected around and around..

I will post some more over the next few weeks,as I become more aquainted and used to what is going on - and also try to put together a final piece with all of the resources used and contacts (if this is ok and useful?)

As noted above I also have to do something about the huge anount of bass build up under the counter tops (this can't be good for the room) - looks like all of the off-buts of the rockwool will find a home in the end.

Yes, exactly as it should be. A good sounding room should be totally neutral, and it's clear you achieved that in spades.



Yes, but you're absorbing only the reflections and none of the direct sound. So this is a Good Thing. You're not losing volume on the direct sound from the speakers, only the extra contribution from what would have been reflected sound.

This has been an amazing project to watch Steve, and you should be totally proud of how beautifully it came out.

--Ethan

Steve, I have enjoyed reading your journey in developing your room. I have a question for you. How do you plan on addressing this? Are you just going to do a solid block of leftover rockwool? I have a similar situation with a medium sized round table next to my main listening position. That kind of leads me to a question for Ethan.... is it better to have a solid block or a sealed cube about two inches thick with a hallow space to capture the pressure?

Hi weverb,
I'll continue and post some pictures of this, as I am waiting for the under desk filing cabinett to arrive, and also I have ordered another counter top which I intend to cut up and use as shelves for the printer and computer.
When this is finalised I intend to make some full under counter height x 6 or 8inches thick traps - and cover them in black so as they hide the unsightly wires and also help stop the fan noise from the pc and printer (although these will hardly ever be on in serious listening). These will sit right up to the wall and probably also straddle the corners as my feet dont reach that far!
It is going to be interesting this one - as it's only apparent when working in the space how much build up there is.

A solid block absorbs more than a panel with air behind. An air gap is a free way to get similar performance, but filling solid always absorbs a little more. How much more depends on the sizes and frequencies.

--Ethan

Ethan and Steve,

I have been thinking about this more (Any progress Steve?). I can fit a 16"x16"x24" cube under my table. Is this worth doing? What impact could one see at their listening position by absorbing bass under tables, etc.?

Thanks.

Yes, adding any absorption in any corner is always useful.

--Ethan

It is not a corner. It is just a table next to the listening couch. Take a look at the second picture. It is the round one next to the couch.

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2074069/Difficult_Corners#Post2074069

Yes,
progress has again been made and I will post some more pics shortly - and I suppose not un-surprisingly, it has made a not insignificant improvement to the overall sound in the room.
So far two blocks of 9" thick x height of under worksurface have gone into place, one stradling the corner leaving a 12" gap in the angle, the other sits right next door to it 2" away from the wall to allow for wires and plug sockets. The third will go against the other side of the corner wall later today - so a fair bit of rockwool under there now!
Does this stuff ever not work?

Sure, when you leave it in the box/bag in another room.

I cannot wait to read about your progress Steve. I always come back to your thread to admire your craftsmanship and to inspire new ideas for my room.

In this case I meant the wall-floor corner behind the table.

--Ethan

Its’ been a bit of a while since I updated this, but things are still happening.
As per the previous post, I decided to use some of my leftover rockwool to make a few panels which would fit under the (now completely finished) desk.
I find it difficult to put into words what this did. Yes, more of the same as before – still lower noise, better integration of the kit, easier instrument seperation etc, etc, but the most difference is when you get under there (working with wires etc) all that bass build up has simply gone. Now that can’t be bad.
I have now actually completed that fill in under the desk, computer, printer, storage etc are all where they will live and I am actually working in there full time. And very happy in there I am too!
To be honest, an awful lot more has happened, like the office we used to share has been fully renovated, new floors, new strengthened ceilings so we can use above as storage, and loads of extra workspace – but this is not the place for that.

Some pictures of what I now work in! :-




(This shows the nearly complete fill in of under desk)

Steve,

Great to see you back. Can you give me a little more info on what you did under the desk? Is it just the one "panel" across the corner or is that another panel next to it under there?

I am thinking of doing something more cube shaped. I may even construct it so that it can used as a seat when we have a punch of people over visiting. Something like the GIK table trap, but with a cushion top to sit on.

Thanks.

Nothing to difficult there!
The desk top is 271/2" above the floor, so I made sure that I had enough height in the pieces left over. I then stuck 2 x 3" pieces together to make 6" thick, cut to 27.5 high, covered in black fabric,and placed them under the desk, about 3" from the wall. The corner piece straddles the corner & is 9" thick. The whole of the under desk is treated thus, and then round the printer and pc is done prety much the same.
It certaily got rid of the bass build up under there.
As for placing random cubes of thick fibreglass in a room - they will certainly do something, but I am not in a position as to hazard a guess as to what would actually happen.
It would be fun to try though.
I will take a few more pics and post them a little later.

Steve,

Thanks for the explanation. I always look forward to your pictures of your quality craftsmanship.

As for the cube I was describing, it is to be placed under the table next to my listening spot. I would only pull it out to use it as a seat when company dictated its need.