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#2085506 - 06/12/09 01:44 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Trust me when I say that part of me would love to hear this room without any treatment then add it bit by bit - but that was never going to be possible.
The addition of just two 8" thick panells had an effect that was immediately apparent to the room - possibly because of everything else in there - possibly not, I have no idea as it's not in my usual realm of work.
It did prove to be extremely interesting though.
What effect the first reflection points have will also be apparent very soon - my plan is to add them in opposing pairs as they are assembled.
What is becoming more apparent as the room and the system progress is that everything is just becoming clearer and clearer.
As of yet I simply cannot say what is happening where. Some components are brand spanking new, all were stone cold but now - 10 days on of 24/7 playing should be begining to settle down. Every wire, connection, breaker etc was new and unused, so I still think time is needed for everything (including my hearing and perception) to settle correctly.
I have been in rooms that are all but 'dead' acoustically and have to say that I dont like them at all - almost sureal in their even being.
This room still seems to be far from dead, but it is exceedinly quiet, which is very peaceful. If it starts to approach dead then I will cease with the addition of traps - but I guess we have a ways to go there yet. Speech in the room is still very intelligible and not strained in any way, music just flows - from almost any position in there.
That is very un-expected.
The speakers are known to not be 'hot spot' specific, but their effect is becoming more enjoyable by the day.
The overall effect has been (and this always proves the point without fail) to completely re-visit my entire music collection, not just sit and listen to one genre for hours on end. I'm certain that those with varying collections and lots of discs know what I mean here - I just have to hear what 'that' track sounds like in here. I still have a few discs to play on that score yet.

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#2085946 - 06/14/09 08:44 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
A quick hour or so at work allowed the rear corner traps to be 'topped & tailed' - making them look better, fix them where I want them and de wrinkle them.
So that appears to be that for the corners, First reflection points left to do, fit the door and program the lighting.








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#2086255 - 06/15/09 09:01 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Klook Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 31
Steve,
do you plan to burn in your system 24/7? I prefer to do that only when I'm listening to music, to follow each step of the burn in process. It's like to follow the grow up of our children.

You seem to be passing through the "New Collection Syndrome" and so am I. I'm not increasing my CD collection right now. I'm just re-listening CDs and taking advantage on that to do fine tuning of my system.

best regards
Leonardo

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#2086265 - 06/15/09 09:42 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Klook]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Hello Leonardo,
To be honest, I've been through enough system 'burn ins' to be not particularly worried about what it sounds like day by day for the first three weeks or so.
It has now been on 24/7 for nearly two weeks, and has settled down very nicely. Lets say it only gets better from here on in.
The power amp is a year or so old, so only really needed a good warm up, but with so many other components being new it's difficult to say what's doing what!
Going back up tonight to start the assembly of the FRP traps, and probably the freestanding one for the doorway as well.

My CD collection never seems to stop expanding - though I am listening to pleanty of old discs atthe moment.


Edited by Steve2701 (06/15/09 09:42 AM)

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#2088676 - 06/21/09 10:21 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Time with me has been, as ever, in short supply - part of one of my businesses is heavily linked to the UK fishing season, so that opening again on June 16th has obviously taken up large amounts of any that is available.
I have snatched the occasional hour here & there, and have been able to progress a little.

I decided that the FRP traps would be just the 600 x 1200mm and not have the extra additional 150mm to lock into position on the bottom. The main reason for this being that it would have meant buying yet another 3 sheets of 20mm MDF and would have produced a fair amount of waste.
As each one weighs in @ 24kK when complete, I couldn’t actually see them going far or vibrating in sympathy, so came up with an alternative – white ‘non marking rubber doorstops’…

These turned out to be 10mm short



So a little bit of 10mm MDF spacing cured that





And then the 45^ angle applied to the top





Then the rockwool put in, angle cut to size and glued / clamped up



Today being ‘Fathers day’ I was given a nice 3d metal sculpture by my girls – which got pride of place in the room





Then the first pair of FRP traps got hung into position



& from the listening chair



Now I have done hours and hours of listening in here, ( still got plenty of work to do – but the music simpy calls and I have to respond…)
But today something happened that I have not had in here yet.
I am not saying that the simple insertion of two more traps made this happen, as much as I am certain that fine tuning the seating position did it on it’s own either, - but, especially with the eyes closed and the lights in the ‘listening’ mode (yes, programmed them as well!) music now fills an arena in front of and to either side of me – almost in a huge arc if you will, and the speakers totally, completely and utterly disappear.
That is a very, very neat trick, considering their size.
Disc after disc I tried, and every time the same happened.
Now that’s a real result!
I was aware and have said that I could overkill the room with trapping – getting more and more detail – with less and less musical connection and emotion.
What has occurred is rather weird in that respect.
Emotion aplenty, detail to die for, soundstage that (has to be seen?) heard to understand the wittering in this post, and yet the room is still nowhere near ‘dead’ sounding.

So something is going right.
I honestly can’t say just what these two traps have done, as they went in along with some (very) new interconnect cables.
All I can say is I am absolutely gobsmacked with the overall results to date.

So still more to do this week, but this is getting to be very close to what I truly wanted.
I now know for certain that I want the room to be 3m longer, but that is absolutely impossible, and I am very happy to live with what I now have.

If it still gets better with 4 (7) more traps plus a (very) heavy door – I am hardly going to be upset!

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#2088867 - 06/22/09 06:20 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Excellent report. As for clear but not dead, my living room is the same way. The key is mid/high frequency absorption at the reflection points, but not necessarily everywhere else! From the last two photos above it looks like you plan to add a few more side-wall panels. That's a good idea given the size of the room and how far back you listen.

--Ethan

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#2089447 - 06/23/09 02:45 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Hello Ethan,
Thank you for those words. It was somewhat of a minefield that I was travelling through, and some extremely expensive mistakes would have been easy to make.
The size of room, ceiling height / construction / what to cover with paper etc to keep the room 'live' all had to be considered and put into plan after all of that. It has taken some 17 months to date, but very well worth it.
Yes, I have 4 more FRP traps to go in, and then one for in front for the door (freestanding design), and possibly 4 heavily covered picture traps (heavy paper artwork / photo prints) that can also go into place. I have the room, time is missing, and also I need to be certain that they are actually 'needed' in there when the main stuff is complete.

As I said - very interesting venture to date, learnt a lot and highly confident the result is going to be what I actually want!

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#2091154 - 06/28/09 10:08 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Yet another Sunday, and another weekend + Friday afternoon of bits and pieces being sorted, and also the last of the 'big jobs' got sorted.
First off, another two FRP traps were sorted over the week of evenings, and these got stuffed and hung on Friday afternoon / evening.



& from the 'listening seat' position



When up I did try and do some serious listening, but something weird was going on that I didn't understand.
I had a slight headache, my right ear was playing up (head cold on the way) and a bad morning at work.
All added up to a not nice music experience.
When the two additional traps went up everything seemed to 'close in'. the walls seemed to be 4' closer together, the ceiling too low - you get the feeling. Image seemed to collapse in on itself - and the frequency seemed very 'lumpy'
I am putting this down to the combination of my woes, the system playing up (still comparitively new) and a MASSIVE thunderstorm starting. Water was pouring out of the AirCon unit like a waterfall so humid was the unit.
So I left it and went away to start on something else.

Hanging the door. Not something I was looking forward to, having been 20+ years since I last hung one, and this one is huge - (the biggest commercially available) and being a fire door, not exactly light. Certainly too big for one person to mess with. But no-one else was available. So, laying out the hinges - thickness 2,9mm..




Time then ran out so back later the next day.

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#2091158 - 06/28/09 10:18 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Feeling so much better the next day, The door was finally manouvered into position, hinges cut out in door frame, frame re-painted, door fettled and handles / lock fitted. Took in total 11/2 days - so long had it been since I last did this. Still, very happy with the end result. My arms now ache somewhat with moving such a heavy and odly sized item..

From the front of the room looking back



Now that's more like it!



& some pics of the programmed lighting

general on scene



Listening mode 1


listening mode 2



Work mode from front of room



That was enough for a weekend - so some time was spent in front of the system...


I should point out that some proper seating is currently under construction and being covered - that chair is press ganged into action for now!

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#2091161 - 06/28/09 10:25 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Did two more traps and a new door do anything for the room?
You better believe it!

Yet another leap forward.
The room can now be properly 'pressurised' by the amp - and I now can get to grips with what is going on exactly.
I have some more exciting times ahead I guess.
This afternoon, from Saint Saens, Sister Bliss, Peter Gabriel, Massive attack, Dead Can Dance, Albioni, Chung playing the four seasons - you have a clue as to what went on for an couple of hours.
Focus, musicality, expression, emotion, recording quality, all there to be experienced.
As for floor shaking bass - hmm - this is fun :-)
By the end of the session the sides of the amp were way to hot to touch - a great sign of someone having fun - and a system playing so clean that the volume can just go up and up and up...

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#2091420 - 06/29/09 11:31 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
This just gets better and better. thu

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#2095370 - 07/11/09 11:27 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Well it’s been two weeks, and not much done I’m afraid.
I did sneak off on holiday for three days to the Goodwood Festival Of Speed down in West Sussex, which was huge fun – but did nothing for the room whatsoever.

A full week at work left Friday afternoon to start again – so the office ring main was finally fixed and wired in.
How many plugs do you need – hundreds!
Computers, monitors, printer, routers, telephones, answer machines, mobile phone chargers, coffee machines just about everything in the office needs a plug socket – so they all get one with a few to spare – for now.



Then the desk needed to go in.
I must admit that I have never done anything like this before – as it’s built in and very much ‘kitchen fitters’ stuff.
So we got hold of 4metres of ‘breakfast bar’ 4 metres of worktop. Looked at it and went – oh…

Then I borrowed a worktop cutting template from a friend, looked at it – and thought – oh no..
So I gave it to Pete, my brother in law and said - just cut that out for me will you please.

I went upstairs and started to put the support battoning round the corner of the room while Pete read the instructions.
What do you know – an hour later, battoning up – worktops cut to size, routered to shape, holes cut for biscuits and compression bolt fittings – we were ready to go.



Cut some holes for wire breakout points, then started to level and fit.





Got ready to glue everything up –and made a right mess in my nice room.




I owe Pete a beer or three! Impressive or what. Considering neither of us had even seen or used anything like that template before. Went together very nicely, even though I got glue everywhere.





These things, just like the door, are heavy, unwieldy and a pain to work with on your own (it’s the next day by now) but I do intend to move fully in here next week, so today and Sunday this gets done – or I’m office less.





Lots of odd stuff gets pressed into use – they can all adjust to height, hold a lot of weight, and were available in the warehouse!
Not exactly pretty, but it worked.

Each one of those white bags weighs in at 12.5K (25 lbs) and contains size9 lead shot (another project) and are just perfect to hold down the back edge – and later to hold the backstop in place.

A couple of more pics in the next post finish off todays work, then (hopefully) tomorrow the desk gets finished.
Then next week it's back on topic and some more traps and other stuff get to go in place. At least thats the plan.

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#2095408 - 07/11/09 12:45 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
I’m looking for a fairly ‘minimalist’ look to the desk & office section – the listening part is extremely serious and needed.

So, to hold this lot up – how?
I hadn’t fully decided on what to do, as I wanted to make a final view when I saw what the top looked like.
With a side panel in it looks great to me – but how to hold the top in place at the same time?



Some old fashioned woodwork took over here – along with some reasonably accurate measuring.

Dowels were the chosen method, but not having a dowling jig made this not such a great idea. So I knocked up something that would do the job and kinda hoped it would be accurate enough.



Would these eventually line up? There’s an awful lot of holes there.









With a lot of body parts crossed everything was offered up to see if it would go back together,



After a small amount of persuasion with a rubber mallet everything went back together and actually looked pretty good.

Decided that it would be wise to let the glue dry before taking everything away – so twenty minutes in the listening chair then home.

Tomorrow will see the other end sorted, and the one under the window go into place.

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#2095552 - 07/12/09 07:47 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Quote:
Would these eventually line up? There’s an awful lot of holes there.


LOL, that's great!

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#2095560 - 07/12/09 08:55 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
As promised yesterday – a quick update on todays efforts.
Well the desk is now finished – the final end leg put in place the same way as the first – and as the first one went so well and stood up to a bit of weight being put on it I was happy enough.
The worktop under the window also got put into place, and it’s end panel will go in tomorrow evening.
Managed to run out of ‘upstand’ for the rear & sides, so need to order in a bit of that as well.

You may have also noticed that the listening and work chair finally made it back into the room. It’s starting to come together nicely now.

I hope next time to have completed another three traps – we will see.



Glue went off ok and it was still standing this morning.



Talk about working in a mess.



Side panel being prepped for final fitting.







The room as I left it this afternoon.
Very close to completion now.

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#2096194 - 07/14/09 02:02 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Managed to grab a couple of late nights already this week, so the desk and wortop are finished, and the fianl two FRP traps are also complete and just need stuffing with rockwool, which will happen on Thursday - so by the end of the weekend I should have a complete room to work in. I have a combined draw / filing cabinett to go under the desk, and a printer to go on top - along with the pc - then thats the lot.

As I left tonight:-







Lets see what happens.

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#2097311 - 07/19/09 09:31 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Well isn’t it just fantastic, how, in this amazing computer age, at the mere click of a button, you can lose nearly twenty minutes of typing and correction. Ok, I’m not the fastest – but I doubt I can remember everything I said, or the order it was in – Fangled darn pc’s – my is labelled ‘There’s bound to be problems in here’ and as true to life – it sure lives up to its name.

So – as can be seen from the pictures below, the final two FRP traps are now in place.
The ‘big job’ for the weekend is still work in progress as time went crazy this weekend (anyone got a spare tardis or a time bandit please?)

Just before these went into place a good friend and myself had a nice long listening session. So that I could accurately assess what, if any differences these new panels would make.

I have been listening on and off for an hour here and there, for weeks now – but the system has been on 24/7 during the last month, and some huge (monumental to me) changes have occurred – mostly recently I would guess.

Anyone that does not ‘believe’ in this or regards it all as rubbish should stop reading right here. I don’t want you spluttering all over your keyboard and making a right mess. This is my evaluation of what has happened to my system in my room – and yes, I am absolutely certain of what I am hearing – OK!

When the system was new and went into action, a lot of things were far from great. Passable, but not at all what I was looking for.
Leading edges to piano notes, strident treble on trumpet, horrible raggedness to high violin tones, snare / high hat that is painful on the ears – I had all of that, thank you.

Now – non of it. At all. If a note is played ragged and rough – then it still is, but smoothness is now an accurate description.
Snare hits start and stop on a sixpence (Dime?), rim shots hit you between the eyes, piano sounds sublime, and violin can just bring tears to the eyes – easily.

If I have a noisefloor – then I can’t seem to find it – it may be made of glass?
Quiet passages of music are exactly that – the space and apparent ‘air’ around notes makes everything readily identifiable and easy to delineate in space.

If music is well recorded then huge sounstages can be portrayed, as can dynamic range (almost scarily so)
The system can now go very, very loud – it is just so clean – and nothing distorts at all. I am being very careful here as I don’t want to induce deafness or tinitus, but having a well miked drum kit – live in the room – or a church organ on its 16’ bass pedal, I have never had this before, so I’m having some fun.

Why have I put this in this forum?
As it would not be like this at all without the treatment the room has. It’s that simple.

Add a further two traps to the mix and what happens?
More subtle this time.
More detail, slightly more image definition, extra clarity, yet no loss of musical emotion – at least as far as I can tell.
Bass notes are easily better again – appear slightly ‘quieter’ but this is down to them being heard as they should be – not echoes of them as well?

What is very apparent is that the room is now right on the ‘point’ as in just about anything else and the room will start to become over dead.

Speech is now at the point of being ‘weird’. Everything starts and stops very abruptly – no reverberation whatsoever from just about anywhere in the room.

I like the overall effect so far – it is eternally peaceful in there, and obviously exceedingly quiet (should nothing be playing) and just leaving the system running overnight means I come into a very warm room next day, so much is the insulation in there.

While working under the desk (I had to screw up the desktops somehow!) it was very apparent that a lot of bass buildup was happening in the corners (no surprises there then) so I may well put something in here – it won't be visible – but may well do something to help.

So I’m moving in here next week, and starting to work from here. Music will be a distraction, but so what.

Already I’ve been looking at putting in some diffusion (somewhere??) as a way of livening up the room very slightly, without taking away anything of what I have achieved. At least that would be the plan.
The last time I saw quadratics was as a schoolboy, when I used to swear at them and wander just what the hell I could ever use them for – it would appear I now have an answer to that one.
So it’s looking like this journey is not actually over yet – by some way.
Lets see – it is an interesting experiment if nothing else.






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#2097491 - 07/20/09 07:56 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Fabulous, just fabulous. Another true believer. grin

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#2099523 - 07/26/09 12:00 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Today allowed me chance to start what I so wanted to finish last week - the final programmed (albeit moveable) bass trap.
I was never going to be able to complete it in the time I had - but decided to give it my best shot, then try and find time in the evening to put the finishing touches to it.

I am so looking forward to seeing if this does prove to be the final part in the jigsaw.
I now have deep rooted doubts that it is - but this room is sounding so good that it is difficult to perceive any further improvement.

Back to today :-
Pulling together the parts for the free standing trap.
An off cut from next door, turned into something of a connecting upstand part.




upright





Centreing rear upright connector to the baseplate.

Finished basplate



Attaching centre upright support to the baseplate.
Accuracy = everything. This will affect vertical and horizontal aspects.





Seems to have worked.



Attaching trap to stand. Again accuracy = everything.



I appear to have constructed a wooden 'Cyberman'!



Trap on stand with moving handles attached.

Stuffed! 705 equivalent - 6" thick solid. 18mm thick mdf rear. 30mm mdf upright. All oak covered as per usual.

Have I done this before?



& as I finished tonight - close but no cigar.

I needed dinner and to see my family.



So what is it with the doubts?
A project like this , especially one that involves a fair amount of 'trial and error' inevitably involves some reading. Especially if your anything like me.
The front wall behind the speakers and kit is now the only fully 'live' wall left in there, and I have no intention of changing that. Enough traps = enough traps, & I think I am very close to that. (I have other ideas here, but more on that later) - much later!
But how live is live? Would diffusor live be better than standard wall?
How about a 6' by 6' quadratic diffusor panel behind the equipment stack? (Found a nice plan for one of those on the net - a whole 18" deep... bet that would be fun to make - and not weigh a lot (rolleyes)but would it help?)
Or how about TWO of those - side by side (reversed in construction) to make a 12' wide diffusor x 6' high? Would it pull the wall down?
Or would a diffusor similar in construction to the one oposite the window (remember that bendy mdf fun?) and 4' wide x 6' high behind the stack, followed by a 6' x 6' quadratic on either side be better?
Would this be complete overkill? Something tells me no - this will work and help a lot.
Any thoughts guys?
Oh - my wife wants her office decorated first before I even begin to think about any of this stuff - apparently.

I may be opening a whole new can of worms here, but it looks like an interesting idea?

I did start to work out the amounts of mdf needed to make that quadratic -> ouch!
You wouldn't want that to fall on your toe.





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#2099739 - 07/27/09 08:29 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
A diffusor on the front wall can help a little, but the actual portion behind the gear will not do much. If it were me I'd make it large anyway, and center it vertically at ear height. Little will be "wasted" behind the gear.

--Ethan

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#2101530 - 07/31/09 02:50 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
As can be seen below, I finally moved into the new office completely this week. After much hassle with telephone connections, ADSL lines, where to put a new printer, siting of the filing cabinet and shelves - all finally resolved and then managed to manhandle the final trap into the room.
I have now had time with a few friends in there as well, and was able to gauge reaction from everyone that has been to visit.
All has been positive so far. The room does not overpower anyone, in fact most feel right at home very, very quickly, and almost immediately start to ask if I can play x, y, z, etc - which usually ends up with a nice music playing session. Within moments all the kit and room is forgotten about (exactly as I would have wished) and music takes over. I dont think I can ask for more than that.
So does the final trap do anything?
Well it is becoming very difficult to say now - as there is so much in there. Yes it does have an effect that is positive - but to be honest perfect placement is not imperative with it - probably because of everything else as well.
It has become aparent to me that the volume control now needs to go up somewhat more than it used to to get to a certain level, but once that level is reached - it is way, way better than it was before everything went in. I hope that makes sense?
My guess would be an awful lot is being absorbed in the room rather than being reflected around and around..

I will post some more over the next few weeks,as I become more aquainted and used to what is going on - and also try to put together a final piece with all of the resources used and contacts (if this is ok and useful?)

As noted above I also have to do something about the huge anount of bass build up under the counter tops (this can't be good for the room) - looks like all of the off-buts of the rockwool will find a home in the end.








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#2101661 - 08/01/09 04:59 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Originally Posted By: Steve2701
most feel right at home very, very quickly


Yes, exactly as it should be. A good sounding room should be totally neutral, and it's clear you achieved that in spades.

Quote:
My guess would be an awful lot is being absorbed in the room rather than being reflected around and around.


Yes, but you're absorbing only the reflections and none of the direct sound. So this is a Good Thing. You're not losing volume on the direct sound from the speakers, only the extra contribution from what would have been reflected sound.

This has been an amazing project to watch Steve, and you should be totally proud of how beautifully it came out. thu

--Ethan

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#2102154 - 08/03/09 12:41 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
weverb Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: Steve2701
As noted above I also have to do something about the huge anount of bass build up under the counter tops (this can't be good for the room) - looks like all of the off-buts of the rockwool will find a home in the end.


Steve, I have enjoyed reading your journey in developing your room. I have a question for you. How do you plan on addressing this? Are you just going to do a solid block of leftover rockwool? I have a similar situation with a medium sized round table next to my main listening position. That kind of leads me to a question for Ethan.... is it better to have a solid block or a sealed cube about two inches thick with a hallow space to capture the pressure?

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#2102338 - 08/04/09 12:32 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: weverb]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Hi weverb,
I'll continue and post some pictures of this, as I am waiting for the under desk filing cabinett to arrive, and also I have ordered another counter top which I intend to cut up and use as shelves for the printer and computer.
When this is finalised I intend to make some full under counter height x 6 or 8inches thick traps - and cover them in black so as they hide the unsightly wires and also help stop the fan noise from the pc and printer (although these will hardly ever be on in serious listening). These will sit right up to the wall and probably also straddle the corners as my feet dont reach that far!
It is going to be interesting this one - as it's only apparent when working in the space how much build up there is.

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#2102409 - 08/04/09 07:29 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: weverb]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Originally Posted By: weverb
is it better to have a solid block or a sealed cube about two inches thick with a hallow space to capture the pressure?


A solid block absorbs more than a panel with air behind. An air gap is a free way to get similar performance, but filling solid always absorbs a little more. How much more depends on the sizes and frequencies.

--Ethan

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#2103838 - 08/08/09 04:28 PM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
weverb Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: Ethan Winer
Originally Posted By: weverb
is it better to have a solid block or a sealed cube about two inches thick with a hallow space to capture the pressure?


A solid block absorbs more than a panel with air behind. An air gap is a free way to get similar performance, but filling solid always absorbs a little more. How much more depends on the sizes and frequencies.

--Ethan


Ethan and Steve,

I have been thinking about this more (Any progress Steve?). I can fit a 16"x16"x24" cube under my table. Is this worth doing? What impact could one see at their listening position by absorbing bass under tables, etc.?

Thanks.

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#2103928 - 08/09/09 09:15 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: weverb]
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Yes, adding any absorption in any corner is always useful.

--Ethan

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#2103929 - 08/09/09 09:30 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Ethan Winer]
weverb Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: Ethan Winer
Yes, adding any absorption in any corner is always useful.

--Ethan


It is not a corner. It is just a table next to the listening couch. Take a look at the second picture. It is the round one next to the couch.

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2074069/Difficult_Corners#Post2074069

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#2104078 - 08/10/09 12:54 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: weverb]
Steve2701 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 217
Loc: West Mids, UK
Yes,
progress has again been made and I will post some more pics shortly - and I suppose not un-surprisingly, it has made a not insignificant improvement to the overall sound in the room.
So far two blocks of 9" thick x height of under worksurface have gone into place, one stradling the corner leaving a 12" gap in the angle, the other sits right next door to it 2" away from the wall to allow for wires and plug sockets. The third will go against the other side of the corner wall later today - so a fair bit of rockwool under there now!
Does this stuff ever not work?

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#2104157 - 08/10/09 06:55 AM Re: Wall boundary trapping. [Re: Steve2701]
weverb Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: Steve2701
Does this stuff ever not work?


Sure, when you leave it in the box/bag in another room. cool

I cannot wait to read about your progress Steve. I always come back to your thread to admire your craftsmanship and to inspire new ideas for my room.

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