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#1973186 - 07/24/08 03:58 PM Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity
spookyrockstar Offline
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Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 2
Or bits of it anyway.

If you're the same person, not another using 'Moses Avalon': I read your book, 'Everything you wanted to know.....' around 10 years ago. Although it was truly insightful, it was filled with what I'm guessing was 10-15 years of experience at that time, so now we're talking about 30ish years of you being a major player in the entertainment industry. You are very much speaking from a point of view concurrent with a record industry top dog clinging to dying methods. C'mon now.......

Phonograph killed the Orchestra, video killed the radio star, and now mp3 is killing cover art? Ultimately digital will rape the musical art form? Please. The record industry has been raping art for many years now, and is just afraid of losing it's
'b*tch'. Closed minded dribble.

Great art/artists will always rise from the muck of eye-ear candy. Whether or not we appreciate it is another story. Musically: Most people just latch on to what they liked in their teens and twenties, and magically, no matter the generation, almost everything after that is regarded as crap. This cycle has repeated itself the last hundred years maybe more. Perhaps it's us/age rather the constant death of art? Sure, you may like something new that's come out, but it sure isn't what the majority of *kids* are listening to, is it?

BTW: Only audiophiles/engineers give a sh*t about the fidelity. My mom in the 50s listened to her favorite songs on lo-fi A.M., and now kids are dancing to their cellphones set to "speakerphone'. When they want it sounding great, they'll get it. Even when old fogies like us are complaining 'they don't know what great *is*.' Guess what: Maybe "Great" has changed, and we (read: Avalon and the like) are the ones who refuse to accept it.

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#1973274 - 07/24/08 07:45 PM Re: Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity [Re: spookyrockstar]
miroslav Offline
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Mmmm...I don't think "great" has changed...

...what's changed is the perception of "great".

For whatever that's worth....
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#1973317 - 07/24/08 10:27 PM Re: Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity [Re: miroslav]
spookyrockstar Offline
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Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 2
That's exactly what I mean. The perception of "Great" has changed, and *in general* generations will rarely agree on what that is. Thus, figuratively speaking, "great" has changed beyond our perception.

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#1973401 - 07/25/08 06:22 AM Re: Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity [Re: spookyrockstar]
miroslav Offline
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Well no... \:\) ... I don't think it's changed beyond our perception.
Just because some of us are "older guys", we still have our perception of "great"...it just isn’t the same as what maybe some of the young folk are hearing. \:D

And...without getting into a major debate on which generation’s music is "better"...I will say that back in that day when people were interested in hi-fidelity sound (us "older guys"...and we still are interested! )...the bar was a LOT higher when music was being "judged" by the listener.
With the prevalence of MP3/Ipod "quality"...that Hi-Fi bar has been once again lowered...hence the new perception of "great"….though I’m not sure if you are talking about "great sound" or "great music"...?
I do think there is a lot of great music today...though it is mired in a lot of crap music. There is a massive overflow of “stuff” on the Internet! And then on top if that, much if it is delivered in less than Hi-Fi format…so it’s a double whammy.

The fact that a lot of younger listeners are just shrugging that off and not caring...well...I'm not sure that is by their choice. Many of them are growing up with those lower quality formats...over-compressed/over-hyped CDs...and a lot of "basement-studio" music.
If you feed nothing but oatmeal to young mouths...they will never develop any taste for ham-n-eggs... ;\)

I think the ball was dropped when the technology took over.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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#1975330 - 07/30/08 02:12 AM Re: Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity [Re: miroslav]
NameAlreadyInUse Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3
"With the prevalence of MP3/Ipod "quality"...that Hi-Fi bar has been once again lowered..."

"Many of them are growing up with those lower quality formats...over-compressed/over-hyped CDs...and a lot of "basement-studio" music."

I dunno, I think that folks today have it better than ever when it comes to the availability of good (and even great) sounding playback systems. Before we start railing at the kids today who listen to most of their music on MP3 players, consider that a cheap MP3 player today still sounds light years better than a "good" transistor radio of yesterday.

In fact, the overwhelming majority of music consumers have never listened to music in any way or on any gear that most of us would consider anything other than crap: 78's; LPs with worn needles long in need of replacing; tiny, tinny, crappy portable record players; transistor radios; 8-track tapes; cheap cassette players; and cheap generic Best Buy-esque dorm boom boxes have always been the norm. Even the industry standard for breaking new acts--OTA broadcast radio--is highly compressed and poor sounding.

Compare that to all of the higher-quality formats currently available: CD's; high bitrate MP3's; digital music delivery methods such as cable, FIOS, satellite, and HD radio and I weep for the LACK of quality those of us who grew up in the 60's and 70's had. Back then if we wanted to listen to multi-channel, we had to decide which of the none-compatible quad systems we wanted (and who had material available for it). Now folks have up to 8 channels of lossless audio available in a variety of formats.

And yet despite not having nearly the quality available to us that kids have available to them, we managed to enjoy music quite nicely. I suspect that kids today are digging it just as much as we did (and it sounds a hell of a lot better)!

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#1975401 - 07/30/08 07:49 AM Re: Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity [Re: NameAlreadyInUse]
Griffinator Offline
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Actually, continuing along that angle, one could make the case that the improved fidelity has contributed to the decline in the quality of the music - sub-harmonic frequencies just didn't exist in anything but the highest quality reproduction systems until the late 80's - which also happens to coincide with the rise of hip-hop....

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#1975404 - 07/30/08 07:56 AM Re: Da Vinci Necktie? Mr. Avalon, you're revealing your identity [Re: NameAlreadyInUse]
miroslav Offline
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Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 14215
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
 Originally Posted By: NameAlreadyInUse


I dunno, I think that folks today have it better than ever when it comes to the availability of good (and even great) sounding playback systems. Before we start railing at the kids today who listen to most of their music on MP3 players, consider that a cheap MP3 player today still sounds light years better than a "good" transistor radio of yesterday.



I think you missed my point....

Sure...there ARE high-end music systems today...there are plenty of HD audio formats and also surround sound…etc...
BUT...most kids don't bother with it…and how many even bother owning and using any Hi-Fi systems in their homes...?
Not too many.

Back in the 70s/80s...when people actually sat down and listened to music instead of just using it as an ambient back drop while they multitasked away...
...lots of people were into having some outrageous Hi-Fi systems. And even though transistors and AM radio was around…most would savor those listening sessions in front of their Hi-Fi stereo system.
I recall almost all of my high school and college friends having a nice "stereo system"...it was almost dé-riguire, having a real decent Hi-F- stereo ...and it was all about getting together and listening to the latest album releases.

You just don't see that today, and most kids now ignore Hi-Fi audio, even though there is plenty available, and they all seem quite content with their crappy iPods and MP3's.
Well…I guess since they don’t ever bother to listen on any real Hi-Fi systems…they are probably convinced that MP3's are “pretty darn good”… \:D
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