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#1944262 - 05/19/08 08:28 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
Hammonddave Offline
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From listening to the examples above, and from my own personal experience as a B3 player, these clones have indeed reached a point where sonically you cannot tell the difference between a clone through a Leslie and the real thing. The only difference is in the player interface; How good does it feel and how close to the original it is... The Hammond XK3c is set up more like the real thing; Real Drawbars in the right place, percussion and vibrato switches and dial in the right places, preset keys, etc... Yes its heavier, but to me (a 52 year old hacker with a bad back) it is worth the extra weight. It just "feels right" when I play it.

I am curious to see and play the new Diversi organ. Unfortunately I will be out of town when Joey D. and the Diversi folks are in LA this week.
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#1944270 - 05/19/08 08:43 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Hammonddave]
Outkaster Offline
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Yeah I want to hear the Diversi stuff myself.
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#1944495 - 05/19/08 01:39 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
suraci Offline
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Someone- I cannot recall who- said on hearing a concert with Diversi- he was uncomfortable after x minutes of listening to it.

It was a mystery as to why- the tone was fairly authentic.
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#1944514 - 05/19/08 02:06 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
mate_stubb Online   content
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 Originally Posted By: suraci
Someone- I cannot recall who- said on hearing a concert with Diversi- he was uncomfortable after x minutes of listening to it.


That could be me describing my reaction to Roland clonewheels.
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#1944625 - 05/19/08 06:06 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: mate_stubb]
Outkaster Offline
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 Originally Posted By: mate_stubb
 Originally Posted By: suraci
Someone- I cannot recall who- said on hearing a concert with Diversi- he was uncomfortable after x minutes of listening to it.


That could be me describing my reaction to Roland clonewheels.


LMAO
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#1944682 - 05/19/08 07:57 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: gaganuga]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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 Originally Posted By: gaganuga

I didn't found any XK3C video playing with the band.
Maby someone knows a good live viedeo.


It's not the XK3c, but here's me playing the XK3 with lower manual through a 122 with bands:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8RSkUW4hIxU
(organ solo starts around 2:18)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=voKkE2k_f50
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#1944845 - 05/20/08 06:36 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Outkaster Offline
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Nice stuff like your phrasing!!
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#1944890 - 05/20/08 07:25 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
eric Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Nice stuff like your phrasing!!


Jason, you are a big fan of phrasing! \:D I see you mentioning it in almost every thread. I think maybe you can change your forum name from Outkaster to PhraseLover! \:D
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#1944910 - 05/20/08 07:51 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: eric]
Outkaster Offline
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You know it is funny to me because so many keyboard players don't know where to put parts. That is why I like Danny and Roy. My drummer is like that he overplays, especially in the Santana stuff we cover. I think it is an instinct you have to develop over time. You either have it or you don't. Eric if you want a copy of the Roy interview I will try to scan it tonight. I tried this morning and it did not work that well. The editor of backstretts.com wants a copy of it.
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#1944915 - 05/20/08 08:02 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
ABECK Offline
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Registered: 01/22/01
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 Originally Posted By: B3-er
[quote=gaganuga]

It's not the XK3c, but here's me playing the XK3 with lower manual through a 122 with bands:

(organ solo starts around 2:18)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=voKkE2k_f50


You make it look easy. Sounds awesome.

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#1945000 - 05/20/08 10:15 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
suraci Offline
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Registered: 02/05/04
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 Originally Posted By: B3-er
 Originally Posted By: gaganuga

I didn't found any XK3C video playing with the band.
Maby someone knows a good live viedeo.


It's not the XK3c, but here's me playing the XK3 with lower manual through a 122 with bands:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8RSkUW4hIxU
(organ solo starts around 2:18)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=voKkE2k_f50


Very Nice stuff bravo

How big a factor is WHICH Leslie you use- do you think?
21 system, 145, 3300, 121???
You are getting sounds I can only dream about .
I am thinking about that 122.
EDIT Your drummer is killin it!
EDIT OF EDIT: Do you believe the newer xk3c is significantly better than the xk3?


Edited by suraci (05/20/08 10:25 AM)
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#1945004 - 05/20/08 10:20 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
eric Offline
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Registered: 01/25/02
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 Originally Posted By: Outkaster
You know it is funny to me because so many keyboard players don't know where to put parts. That is why I like Danny and Roy. My drummer is like that he overplays, especially in the Santana stuff we cover. I think it is an instinct you have to develop over time. You either have it or you don't. Eric if you want a copy of the Roy interview I will try to scan it tonight. I tried this morning and it did not work that well. The editor of backstretts.com wants a copy of it.


Thanks for the offer - I actually have that issue (along with every other issue of KB Mag ever printed) as I've been a subsriber since 1984 and have all the back issues prior to this. There may actually be some earlier issue with a feature on either Bittan or Federici. I'll look through my archives later.
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#1945018 - 05/20/08 10:46 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: eric]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
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Loc: Rochester, NY
Yeah there is an earlier one from years ago I would like to see.
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#1945147 - 05/20/08 03:38 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4967
Loc: Lansing, MI
 Originally Posted By: suraci

Very Nice stuff bravo

How big a factor is WHICH Leslie you use- do you think?


The big factor is using a Leslie, period. I know the Nord folks like to talk about the onboard Leslie sim, but it still sounds fake to me. A real Leslie is the key to making any organ simulator sound good. There is just no substitue for moving air.

 Quote:
21 system, 145, 3300, 121???


I have a 3300 as well. It sounds fantastic, especially once you replace the stock preamp tube with a NOS RCA 12AT7 or other vintage tube. Mine has been having technical issues, however. Hopefully Hammond has solved them. They sent me a new preamp board and driver, I just haven't had time to install them yet.

 Quote:
You are getting sounds I can only dream about .
I am thinking about that 122.


A real Leslie is 75% or more of the sound. But I also tweaked my XK3 extensively, building a custom tonewheel set that is based on my 1958 B3. You can download it for free from the XK3 Yahoo Group or just send me an email and I'll send it to you.

 Quote:
EDIT Your drummer is killin it!


If you're talking about the drummer in Root Doctor, yeah, he's solid as a rock. (The drummer in organissimo is no slouch, either!) Unfortunately he just had to bow out of the group for family reasons. I really miss his playing, although the guy we got to replace him is coming along nicely.

 Quote:
EDIT OF EDIT: Do you believe the newer xk3c is significantly better than the xk3?


I believe it is from what I've read and others have told me, but I have not played one myself yet. I plan on upgrading in another year or so. From what I've read, the onboard Leslie sim is better for those times that you MUST use the onboard sim instead of a Leslie (blah) and the overall tone is better out of the box. The XK3 takes some serious tweaking to get it to sound "right", in my opinion.
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#1945195 - 05/20/08 05:42 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
suraci Offline
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Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 764
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your band, your playing- especially comping and bass lines, and your sound inspired me!
you really have me thinking about my gear

I don't get that sound

I use cx3 korg and speakers JBL EON

I also own the full 21 system

I guess the 3300 is seriously better than mine

I also have an older 145
it is not portable ( no more van)

How close can 2101 and that simulating bottom do with the cx3?
meaning how close to your sound
I am considering the xk3c along with the cx3 !
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#1945201 - 05/20/08 05:52 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: ABECK]
gaganuga Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Switzerland
Very nice play B3-er!

Nice sound too

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#1945235 - 05/20/08 07:33 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4967
Loc: Lansing, MI
 Originally Posted By: suraci
your band, your playing- especially comping and bass lines, and your sound inspired me!


I'm glad! That's what music is about!

 Quote:
you really have me thinking about my gear

I don't get that sound


Well, before you start blaming the gear, maybe we should talk about your technique. Do you use the pedals? I don't care what kind of speaker you play through, if you don't use pedals, you're not going to get the kind of bass sound that I do.

 Quote:
I use cx3 korg and speakers JBL EON


The CX3 is a decent clone.

 Quote:
I also own the full 21 system


The 21 System can sound very good. I saw Roger Smith play with Tower of Power, sitting backstage right behind his rig. He was using the portable new B3 and two 21 Systems. It sounded fantastic.

However, I believe the new B3 has a tube preamp section, like the Xk3/Xk3c, which adds some grit you're not going to get from either the CX3 or the 21 System.

 Quote:
I guess the 3300 is seriously better than mine


Only in the sense that you can dial in some grit via the tube preamp. The low-end response is probably worse.

 Quote:
How close can 2101 and that simulating bottom do with the cx3?
meaning how close to your sound


I have no idea. Again, one of the reasons why my bass sound is the way it is due to playing a combination of pedals and left-hand. Though having a big tube Leslie like a 122 certainly helps! \:\)

I have found that the bass on the Xk3 is much tighter and more defined than a real B3 or any other clone I've played.
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#1945248 - 05/20/08 07:55 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
kanker. Offline
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 Originally Posted By: B3-er
 Originally Posted By: suraci
your band, your playing- especially comping and bass lines, and your sound inspired me!


I'm glad! That's what music is about!

 Quote:
you really have me thinking about my gear

I don't get that sound


Well, before you start blaming the gear, maybe we should talk about your technique. Do you use the pedals? I don't care what kind of speaker you play through, if you don't use pedals, you're not going to get the kind of bass sound that I do.
Manual Bass ;\)
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#1945280 - 05/20/08 09:02 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: kanker.]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Well... not so much. \:\)
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#1945307 - 05/20/08 11:32 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Analogaddict Offline
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I agree with Jim on everything above. \:\) I tried the Xk-3c for a couple of hours with and without Leslie, and I must say that through a decent full-range PA the Leslie sim was uncanny. The XK-3c I tried came right out of the box, and I barely scratched the editing possibilities, I just worked the drawbars, overdrive ad other front panel stuff. Unless it is a software upgrade, I'd advise people to look at the "c" model, it sounded significantly better to me than the standard XK-3 through the PA. With Leslie, it's much harder to tell - the Leslie is indeed 75% of the sound, and the XK-3c sounded KILLER thru my 3300. As do the XK-3 and the C1. It's a hard equation n the US with the low dollar rate and all, I'm really happy with my C1/3300 setup, but I would be as happy with an XK.

I still want a B/C/A organ and a 122 though. Some day...

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#2004817 - 10/24/08 08:38 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Analogaddict]
gaganuga Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Switzerland
Finally i bought the XK3C yesterday.

Thanks all help me to make the right choice.

Best regards.

GAGA

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#2004836 - 10/24/08 09:16 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: gaganuga]
JMcS Offline
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Congratulations and good luck with it.

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#2005067 - 10/25/08 12:37 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: JMcS]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
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Sweet! I'm jealous. I still want one, but the XK3 is serving me well. I love my rig. XK3 with the traditional XK Lower Manual, pedals, Yamaha Motif ES rack midi'd to the upper manual, Leslie 3300, Yorkville sub for the bass, and Yorkville powered speaker for the Motif.

It ROCKS! \:\)
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#2005138 - 10/25/08 07:39 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
David Loving Offline
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Grooveadelphia proves it. That xk3/system could not sound better.
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#2005221 - 10/25/08 12:20 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: David Loving]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
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Thanks. That was through a vintage Leslie 122, not the 3300. But I've already decided I am going to track with the 3300 next time. We're working on a live release right now (probably won't be out until late summer / early fall next year) and I'm really happy with how well the 3300 records.
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#2005307 - 10/25/08 09:43 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
gaganuga Offline
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Registered: 10/23/05
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Loc: Switzerland
I got an old 21H Leslie.

Do you think I can connect the XK3C directly to this old leslie without a foot adatpter like (TrekII Prea-Amp) and use the ( slow...fast button )from the XK3?

I think I need an 11pin to 6pin cable.

I love you all

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#2005309 - 10/25/08 09:57 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
gaganuga Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Switzerland
 Originally Posted By: B3-er
Sweet! I'm jealous. I still want one, but the XK3 is serving me well. I love my rig. XK3 with the traditional XK Lower Manual, pedals, Yamaha Motif ES rack midi'd to the upper manual, Leslie 3300, Yorkville sub for the bass, and Yorkville powered speaker for the Motif.

It ROCKS! \:\)

I'm jealous on your XK Low Manual and Leslie 3300 http://forums.musicplayer.com/images/icons/default/crazy.gif


Edited by gaganuga (10/25/08 09:59 PM)

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#2005328 - 10/26/08 12:55 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: gaganuga]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4967
Loc: Lansing, MI
 Originally Posted By: gaganuga
I got an old 21H Leslie.

Do you think I can connect the XK3C directly to this old leslie without a foot adatpter like (TrekII Prea-Amp) and use the ( slow...fast button )from the XK3?

I think I need an 11pin to 6pin cable.

I love you all


You need the 1122 interface that Hammond Suzuki makes (and Tonewheel General Hospital, among others, sells). It converts the 11pin output of the XK3c to a 6pin output and also provides power for the Leslie. I used one for years with my 122 before I got the 3300. And yes, with that interface you can switch Leslie speeds from the XK3c. Pretty sweet.

I love 21H Leslies, btw. I have one and it just has the most beautiful sound.


Edited by B3-er (10/26/08 12:57 AM)
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#2030652 - 01/08/09 12:14 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Calumet Offline
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Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 686
Loc: Omaha
Resurrecting an old thread here...can anyone comment further on the MIDI controller aspects of the C1? I am thinking about using one and playing organ on the top manual and a module or my Scarbee samples from my computer on the bottom manual. Any comments on how the board would work for that and on the feel of the keyboard for non-organ sounds?

Thanks!
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#2030880 - 01/08/09 10:58 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Calumet]
Discotheque Offline
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 152
Loc: Canada
I can't comment on that, but perhaps a suggestion: if you are planning to use the bottom manual as a controller (most or all of the time), perhaps buying the Electro 3 (which I understand is the same as the C1 for organ) and a seperate controller on the bottom? Just a thought...

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