Some cabinet manufacturers claim that you don’t need two cabs, and have the “one-does-it-all” approach.
How much of this is true?

Do you agree that one cabinet is enough even when playing with a 5 piece band, and I’m not talking about using 8x10 or 6x10 or 2x15.

I use 2 cabs. Both ampeg 4x10 svthe. Our drummer wants one next to him as I stand to the out side of the lead player. I don't like being in the middle because the singer keeps stepping back into me (small stages).I would prefer to have 1 cab to haul around but because of his needs, I have 2. I use an Ampeg svt 3pro as the head.

A single 410 cab is plenty for a five piece band.

I'll be playing tonight with a six piece rock band using 2-112 cabinets.

I find one enough for almost everything.

Unless it's a large venue, and there is little or no PA support.

When required, it's nice to have the extra though.

...similarly, sometimes I feel it's even nice to have two cabs going (I have 2x 2x10's stacked in a vertical array) with the volume turned down lower.

So, for me, one is almost always enough - but I often enjoy two.

It totally depends on the cab. I replaced an Epifani 410UL and 212UL with a Mesa Boogie 2x12 combo amp. The stupid Mesa combo amp is as loud and full as any rig I've ever owned save maybe an Ampeg SVT when it's really absurdly loud - like so loud you'd never be at that volume unless you were outdoors and playing to 5000+ people and had a really really bad PA/monitors supporting you. I can blow everyone off the stage at every gig I play with the Mesa combo amp. It really is one size fits all. I've yet to find another small cab or combo amp that can do everything this one can - oh I might also add that it sounds absolutely incredible. With all its tubey goodness and delight.

I have gigged plenty with a single 2x10" cabinet. 4x10" cabinet is the most I have ever needed.

You're tubey goodness and delight.

(you had to know that was gonna happen)

Well yeah.

Ah, yes, another bit of Valentine's Day love from the Lowdown!
NTTATWWT

David - I use one 112 for church, two for rock. I'm sure if I had an Epifani 3x10 of Berg 322 cab it would be fine for rock. I might even get away with a 2x10/12. The problem with them (outside of my liking my two 12 cabs) is that one cab would not be as good for my back.

Bump - I hate to read that wishy-washy stuff about your Mesa combo. Damn boy - tell us what you really think !!

Tom

If the stage will handle it, I run my 8x10 and 2x15. If the stage won't handle both, I run the 8x10. I prefer the tone of both together so if it's possible, I run both. I keep my volume high on stage, because it's rare I find a sound man that will give me an adequate volume level in the monitors.

Every soundman hates you.

True story.

If I had my druthers, I'd SO do exactly what YL does. But, then again, if I had my druthers, I'd also do nothing but sit on a soft leather couch, watching Coen brothers films, eating fried chicken, sushi and barbecue in my mansion full of naked women who look just like Beyonce and are all in lust with me... while my accountants try to figure out how a man as good-looking as me managed to acquire fifty bazillion dollars simply by osmosis overnight.

However, in the real world... I figure out what I'll need for the gig (2x10, 4x10, 1x15, 6x10, 8x10) and bring whatever cab (or combination thereof) will work best. Then, I listen to the person running sound at the venue and adjust my volume according to their desires... because I'd actually like my band to have a balanced sound in the room and get booked again.

I also watch my diet, go to work, have just one girlfriend and do my own taxes.

Dammit. I want my druthers.

But, until I can have 'em and do whatever I want, I try to work with the people I encounter, not against them.

I always give a new sound man a chance to set my levels on stage before i turn up.. If he does the stage mix and i'm still completely buried, I walk over and bring it up on my amp so I can hear myself.. I've played at exactly 1 venue where the sound man gave me enough stage volume to hear myself, and at that show I never turned up past about 3 on my master gain as it just wasn't needed. Most of the sound men at the venues I play at bury the bass as a matter of course because either their PA can't handle it, or it's just typical of most metal bands that the bass is buried.. I carry a lot of the melody of our songs, and if buried, our songs lose a big part of their "sound".. IF I was guaranteed a decent stage mix, or we had our own sound guy we knew would get it right, I'd be perfectly happy running DI.. Less gear to manhandle around all the time would make my band mates happy.

I don't have enough money or space to have multiple cabs like many of you guys seem to have.

I currently use a GB 112 and it work great for all my gigs - for me anyway, maybe not for you.

I am debating a GB Shuttle 3.0-10T fo rsmall gigs, jazz gigs and rehearsal and using my Neo112 with it for the full 300 watts at bigger gigs.

How many venues have you played in total?

4.. #5 is tomorrow night..

#4 was the only one the sound man got it right..

#2 they had some puny little speakers for the pa that just wouldn't cope so I carried the whole show on my rig alone, no mic, no line, at a mid sized venue.. About 200 people there..

Depends on the gig and the volume/competition. That said, I seem to like the "thick like a brick" that a pair of identical cabs seems to provide for most electric bass gigs.

My Trace Elliot 1x15" is 280watts RMS 560 peak. I believe the speaker is 200W rms. For most gigs less than 200 people indoors turned up to 7 it is fine. We play pop/disco for functions etc. At larger venues I have it DI'd but only if the drums are going to be miced and the PA is capable of handling it. Obviously other types of music will differ.

There's no point in playing your rig louder than your drummer can hit, otherwise the audience can't hear the drummer. The guitars will just turn up and all you hear is loads of midrangy guitars. It turns into loudness wars on stage and no one can hear anything at all. So if your band is louder than the drummer you're better off getting a decent PA with good monitoring rather than multiple cabs. If you turn up loud when the drums are miced, you could then bleed into all the drum mics and your bass will sound like mud.

1 cabinet will usually do the job depending on the circumstances and the cabinet.

But who cares about circumstances when you can have sixteeen 10" speakers at your back powered by a 1600 watt power amp turned up to 8!
(No not me, just a guy I know.)

Are there not two issues here? How many cabs for the volume you want/need and how many cabs for the tone you want/need?

Maybe too many variable to consider for changable live venues....

Gig enough and you learn tone nuance is not noticed by anybody but yourself.

Also, in most cases, Want != Need. Your Want is often not shared by the soundman, your bandmates or the audience. If your Want is more important to you than the collective Wants of those around you, then do your thing. Just do not confuse your Want with your Need.

Now, as far as trying to "fix" the mix by blowing away the soundman, that is about as dumb as dumb gets. On stage, you have absolutely no idea what the FOH sounds like. Turning up in order to counteract the actions of a soundman will do no good but only harm to the FOH sound. You are making a bad situation worse. If your venue has inadequate sound reinforcement, you are going to fix it with the volume knob on your $300 amplifier. This begins the death spiral. You turn up your bass amp, so the soundman takes you out of the FOH and then turns up the guitars, vocals, and any drum mics. It pushes the system even further than it is already being pushed and induces feedback and distortion. Your crappy sound just got more crappy.

My advice; deal with the issue and play through it or hire your own soundman.

Do your thing. Just do not fool yourself into thinking you are actually helping the situation.

This is based on how many shows?

Where are you standing that you can't hear yourself with one of those cabinets?

I have played with two cabs (one on each side of the stage): a 2x15 and an 18+12. The only thing in the PA was vocals and the music was very bass oriented. (Yes, it was disco and before you stop laughing, everyone in the band bought houses with the proceeds from that band.)

The bands I'm in now are not as loud as those days. When I played with a 9 piece soul band recently, I used two cabinets in order to play SOFTER. The 1x12 cabinet on top of the larger cabinet was so I could hear myself without having to crank the larger cabinet (which was aimed at the back of my legs). If I had cranked the big cabinet, as getz76 says, EVERYONE would have turned up accordingly. And then no one in the audience would have heard the vocals, which are pretty important in the music we were doing...lead vocals with three backup singers. I was one of those. I would have been doing steps as well except that there was no room to move.

This is very true.

I've had a great many amps over the last few years in my quest for tonal Nirvana.

Most of the time, my band mates didn't even notice the different box, let alone and subtle difference in tone!



To quote my guitarist:

Yes. Exactly this.



Or you could get a nice smaller rig and accomplish the same end result. I know you don't believe that a 2x12 combo amp can do what your 8x10 + 2x15 rig can do. But believe me. It can.

If you insisted on having a "big" looking rig and like the combination of 10's and 15's you should investigate a 4x10 and 1x15 cab combo. The poor bastards who are schlepping your gear around for you will thank you for it.

That really is very big.

I feel extravagant when I lug in two 2x10s.

It's been said on this forum before, but I'll say it again. A vast majority of gigs can be handled quite well with about 400W into a 4x10 cab.

Extra headroom is nice, so having more power can be great. However, I still stand by the statement above as being mostly (not always) true.

Also, regarding the soundman -- work with him (or her) and not against him. Usually it all works out better in the end. If you consistently struggle doing this, re-evaluate your approach OR hire your own soundman. Some friends of mine in a band that toured clubs around the US for a few years had a tour manager/ roadie/ extra driver/ friend who would get in the good graces of the soundman and then work with him so that the FOH would be representative of the kind of sound and balance the band was looking for.

Peace.
--s-uu

You're a balance the band was looking for.

I agree with SW.

I like the tonal options of combining cabs. I don't run my rig any louder when using 2 cabs, it just produces a different tone.

I have found that in most instances my cabs are really for onstage monitoring creating a good sound for the band to play of. If the sound guy says turn down then I always do.

Tim you are describing my youth. I barely play with electric guitarists anymore. Give me an acoustic player any day.

Davo

Seems a common feeling that one cab does it all, but for one reason or another everyone uses two.
Well YL is the icing on the cake, and he uses two ginormous cabs.

I couldn't see myself gigging in london with a 8x10 let alone 2x15 with the 8x10. That's just impossible to happen.

It was so neat the other night. I haven't done a gig without an electric guitarist for years. The difference playing with just violin and percussion was stunning. I used to do a lot more gigs without electric guitar.

Personally I manage with one cab. I'd add a second cab only to take the amp to 4 ohms and hence a dramatically higher wattage and volume but only rarely would this be useful. As I get older I seem to seek out quieter onstage set-ups (self preservation?).

Years ago I used to gig with a loud 8+ piece band in big theatres and other venues with just a small combo - that was a bit silly but we had our own sound engineer who travelled with us and ensured I got the room and onstage sound I wanted and having a small bass rig as possible helped make a better overall sound.

But I relied on that sound guy a lot!

Well, on a different side of things... let me say this about the subject of big cabinets...

Use of a large rig doesn't always mean you necessarily need to play it at ludicrous volumes. Sometimes it just looks cool to have a backline of big-ass cabinets. This, my friends, is what I call "The Aesthetics Of Rawk." I don't care who you are--those big-ass rigs just look sweet. The good thing is that those volume knobs go both up and down. The key is to be aware of the proper way to turn them in any given situation. And it is kinda nice to know you could blow the doors off of most any room if you wanted... but that's obviously not always necessary or wise.

And, not for nothing, but... for certain genres of music, you'd look kind of like a weenie playing through a 1x12 cab, regardless of how awesome it sounded.

Yeah, the big rigs are heavy and hard to lug around, but if I'm not complaining about my aching back and I do what the soundguy needs me to do with the volume, I don't see the problem with using one. If you think about it, my Ampeg 4x10 has pretty much the same footprint as my 6x10 and my 8x10, so it's not like I'm really taking up extra space onstage with the biggest one.

Two great things about multiple cabs or big tall cabs - the speakers are closer to your ears so you hear them better, the speakers are working less hard to produce a given SPL so there is less distortion.

Hence although one Acme Low-B2 would probably be fine for gigs, I've always used both of mine. Likewise the new cab I'm building is designed to get the speakers far enough off the ground and have much lower distortion at high SPL than typical cabs.

Alex

My favorite local bass player always has "The Fridge" (8-10)wherever he plays no matter how small the venue. He always sounds fab without being loud.
Now, I'm just a dumb hillbilly mind you but with both bands I'm in nobody likes bass in their monitor - myself probably least of all. I always bring enough to heat up the stage and let the sound man worry about the front. If the drmmer and guitarist can hear me the way they want and the soundman wants me to turn down, tough. He's there to reinforce the stage sound - not create it.

I'm with you on that, Matt. howzat? Phat!

Well, I played a show at a new venue last Friday night, and when I first fired up my rig it was wide open and almost blew us off the stage (man it sounded good!).. I then backed off my volume down to just enough you could hear me well by myself, and left the rest to the sound man..

We played the whole set, and I could have been playing "yankee doodle dandy" and not known any difference because I was so buried on stage..

After the set, I circulated among the crowd asking about the sound, and they all basically thought something was wrong because there was no bass at all from the house PA, and I had my rig turned down to allow the sound man to better control the FOH mix.. It's not that this place's pa wouldn't handle it. They had a nice PA, and the band that played after us had the bass just pounding out of the pa (same sound man!)..

My wife told me she only heard me on the clean parts, and even then it was pretty hard to make out. So I'm gonna work out some kind of signal system with her so she can give me a heads up that the bass is absent from the mix, and i'll crank up between songs to fill the void.. Or something..

Let us see:

One band had a good mix and another band had a bad mix.

1. Same soundman
2. Same PA
3. Same stage

Did you use your 8x10" and 2x15" cabinets? What did the other bass player use?

Yes.. But again they were turned down so low (post gain, pre was set normally) they weren't even providing good stage volume.

The other bassist was running a 1x15 and 2x10.. not sure on brand.. didn't look that hard.

And I wouldn't call their mix "good" as the bass was booming out of the pa, kinda over the top..

What was your EQ set like, both on your amplifier and on your bass?

Real world Report.

Blues and Rock

2-112 cabs and 400 watts were plenty loud with up to 3 guitarist, all using 4-10 Bassman amps. Drums, Keys and percussion too. All with no Pa support. Pa was vocals, bass drum , percussion , and Keys. Two gigs last week.

Sounds like the other band was playing a lot quieter on stage, allowing the sound man to actually mix the band.

Maybe the soundman liked the other bassist more. It is possible to make friends with the soundman and have a rational discussion with him. That can be very helpful in getting the sound mix that you want. Of course, if he says that the guitars are so loud in the room that he really can't do much, then the problem has nothing to do with you or him.

"I can't hear myself" is a common complaint. There is a certain singer who one of these days will find himself onstage in the middle of a song with no bass player because of that. In his case, "I can't hear myself" means that he can hear the rest of the band. His monitor is already turned up to an excruciating level, high enough so that no one else will go anywhere near it. If someone needs to be louder than everyone else in order to hear themselves, maybe that is the problem.

EQ on the head is always flat. Bass EQ is set with a slight boost to lows, slight cut to mids, and highs flat. Keep in mind this is a Smith, which is mid heavy already, so the tone I get from this isn't the scooped tone you would normally associate with these settings.

A slight boost and a slight cut wouldn't suggest a scoope tone. The problem could be the bass, actually.

Can you try to gig with a different one which may be better suited for live use in a band setting? The 2nd order harmonic that is so strong in a Fender-style bass usually works wonders for live use.

Another perfect example of a pissy or inattentive sound guy. Did you buy him a drink before your set? Rule #1 - schmooz the soundguy.
One of us will always try and talk to the soundguy before sets at showcases and let him know what he can expect from us - not what we expect from him, but very diplomatically we let him know what sound he is going to have to deal with. Consequently we have only been screwed over once. The guy tried to get me to turn down and when I wouldn't he just blared the bass until the crowd complained. Jerk.
Time is crucial at showcases and of course sound makes or breaks the crowds opinion. Any soundman worth his salt will let you set your stage levels (quickly) and have you dialed before the middle of the first song.
I was in a great band (The Modulators) who had a tech that went with us to all our festivals and showcases. We never had any problems and remarkably enough there was never a conflict between him and whoever was running the board for all the other bands. Most of the time they were gratefull to get a break.

Nothing cuts through the mix like that Smith.. Cutting through the mix is one place the Smith shines, but it has to be turned on to have any chance at cutting through.. I think he simply didn't have my channel running in the pa at all.. If he did, he had me running almost all the way down.

At our last gig on 12/29 the sound man had us mixed really well with the same gear, so I don't think the bass is the problem..

I couldn't buy the sound man a drink because this venue was owned by a church group or something.. no drinking, no smoking, no cursing.. etc..

That sounds like advertising copy. It makes the person stating such things sound like a fan-boy, even when they have vast experience gigging and using various equipment.

If it cut through the mix like that, you wouldn't have trouble hearing yourself on stage.

Sometimes cutting through the mix means staying away from the frequencies that other instruments are using. That's why the P bass that you hate has been successfully used on so many recordings.

Today's modern basses have a lot of highs which are right in the guitar range. As soon as the guitars start, those highs get covered up.

.....

I have no problem hearing myself at all if I use my amp at any respectable level on stage.. At those last 2 gigs I intentionally left the post gain turned down to sub solo practice levels. At the 2nd to last show the sound man did his thing and I was heard just fine.. At the last show, the sound man just never turned me up to any appreciable level.. I don't care what kind of bass you're playing, if your channel is turned off on the PA and you're not pumping out any real power on stage, you're not going to be heard in a metal band..

Maybe when you first fired up your rig and nearly blew everybody off the stage you created a bad first impression with the sound guy. Even if you turned it down after that, he probably thought...

"what a tosser! I'm going to bury him"

...that's what I would have thought.

And by the way......



I'm betting you're the only one that thought so.

yourlord:

I think there have been some legitimate questions asked and some possible solutions proposed. If the goal is to solve a problem (not being heard), then perhaps disattaching yourself from some absolute beliefs (e.g., the Smith shines at cutting through -- which really depends on instrumentation, how others are EQ'd, venue, etc.) would be valuable at this juncture.

So, honestly, while it's easy to blame the soundguy, and fault might really lie there, you'd be better served identifying an array of plausible explanations for why you couldn't be heard and figure out whether any of them are things you have control over. Various suggestions in that direction have been made -- trying a different EQ setting, making nice with the soundguy, watching your stage volume from the get-go, etc.

What role can you play in solving or preventing the problem in the future? If you honestly are doing all you can do, then you can start pointing fingers. And, for real, you've got to let go of some pretty strong beliefs and let yourself explore whether you might have headed down the wrong track on some things.

Peace.
--s-uu

There is way too much comedy here to even comment on it. I agree with The Funky Doctor's assessment of the situation.

yourlord, what I've heard from your band's demos that you have posted I am inclined to believe that your tone has a lot to do with how well you can hear yourself in the mix. That's not supposed to be a slam on you, I just hear what you have done for yourself in the mix and I hear a very low end heavy sound with very poor definition. Basically the kind of sound where you need to crank the hell out of your amp on stage to be "heard". It just doesn't cut through the mix like a more mid range defined tone does. Take that for what its worth.

Sweet Willie the voice of reason!

You're the reason.

Whenever I first play at a new venue, I've learned to go in and talk to the sound man before hauling any amplification into the room. This way I can find out his expectations and also scope out the sound system and potential house rig. I go in understanding that he is there to make the band(s) sound good and I try to make him feel confident that I'm willing to do whatever he needs me to do towards that goal. I've found that by doing this they are usually far more willing to work with me in getting me what I need.

I do occasionally deal with an incompetent and/or arrogant sound man who has their own strange idea of what sounds good (which usually means burying bass or making it really loud and boomy), but in those cases I figure I'm not going to get a good mix reguardless, so I just try to maintain a good attitude and make the best of it. What else can I do? Using a loud bass rig as a weapon never has good results.

I find that my single 4x10 is more than enough when there is good PA support. There have been times where the PA would only handle keys and vocals so my rig has to carry the bass in the house. In these cases I run out of headroom really fast, I blame that on my Behringer power amp and not the potential of my cab. If I know I'm going into this situation ahead of time, I try to borrow a better power amp and then I have no problem.

Since when did we ever expect the FOH guy to supply stage volumn for bass in the monitors? I've never heard of such a thing. Mayby if you are playing stadiums but not in any bar or club.

However i can't figure out how anybody would want a 810 and a 2-15 on stage. But then again I don't understand why you would play loud enough that they needed ear plugs either.

By the way you want to give the soundman your loudest volumn you will be playing at when he does the sound check, otherwise how can he possibly know how loud you need to be in the mains?

I usually wear them to avoid hearing damage. Wearing hearing protection does not mean you are playing "too loud". Cymbals alone in a non-jazz settings are enough to cause damage, especially if you are on a tight stage and have to be within a couple of feet at ear-level. This is not me just talking out of my ass, there has been plenty of discussion regarding deciBel levels and hearing damage.

A typical cymbal crash is about 125dB, which is the equivalent of a pnuematic jack hammer. 85dB is the point at which extended exposure causes damage.

Here's a nice article.

Big Daddy I'll qualify my remarks, up till now I've kept away from the YourLord argument.

In December I played with the originals band, a cross between Metallica and Foo Fighters. We are VERY LOUD. We play a couple of Metallica covers and a Faith no more tune to keep the punters happy.

I used my 1x15 Trace combo, not very rock, fairly but not VERY LOUD. Next time I will make 2 8x10 stacks out of cereal packets, or bring some washing machines, just to look good. We had a 5K PA rig with 1500watt monitor system into individual 15" monitors, we had whatever mix we wanted in our monitors.

We are all experienced players all have played many different venues in many different bands for at least 20 years each. Talking with the soundman was the first thing I did before even unloading my car. We took less than 20minutes to soundcheck.

It took the bass player from the other band 20 minutes just to EQ his rig! Experience is the only thing that will teach anyone in this situation. I am playing 4 gigs this week (unusual for me granted, no thrash or pop, its panto! which gives a whole new set of problems), YourLord won't learn from any advice here, other than talk to the sound guy, who will hopefully have experience and know what will sound good in each respective venue.

There's only so much sound you can get into a venue until it becomes incoherent. I think we were just below that threshold. My combo would not have provided enough stage volume on its own in any event.

A few years ago I played at a few theatres in a 10 piece soul band, like Phil describes. Again I had bass in my monitors, so did the drummer.

I believe David is playing on outdoor event in front of several hundred people. Rather than spending money on a bigger rig for one gig, I think he's better hiring in a soundman with the right equipment.

Tim we have our own PA and the soundman is one of the guitars and I have a fair deal of control, last gig he said that he wanted the bass to be pumping out and "tried" to dial some settings on my ampeg, so my bass was stupidly loud, I then turned down the bass on my ampeg so it was a good sound on the stage and because it was a pub and i only needed a little bit of presence on the pA's, that was what we got. We sounded good.

Again I play some gigs where we have a soundman, I usually turn up early before everyone else and try to chat for a bit with the soundman so h gives me what I want and vice-versa

I give up.. Are you guys even reading what I'm typing? At 1 out of 7 shows I was completely buried, and it's a show I didn't use my rig to carry the place.. Every other show, even another where I didn't use my rig to carry it, I was right up there and heard as well as anyone could want.. This is a SINGLE show where I was not carried at all..

That has nothing to do with the bass I'm playing, how it's EQ was set or anything of that nature.. Put any bass with any rig, turned down, in the middle of 650 watts of guitar amps driving 14 12" speakers, blaring metal, with a pa reinforcing them and the drums, and not carrying the bass, and you're going to be buried.. Leo Fender himself with his personal OMG uber P bass playing it with fish taped to a power drill would not be heard in that setting..

Maybe what is not getting got here is that we all get it.
You somehow pissed off the soundman and he hosed ya.
Bummer. Next time clobber him with an 810.

Not sure how I would have pissed him off. I was full blast for about 2 notes, then I backed it off.. Maybe he has something against balding, graying, middle aged fat guys playing heavy metal..

Back on topic, what you need for cabs is determined by what you play, where you play, the tone you want, and how much you want to be able to make up for a venue's lack of resources..

If you have a drummer and he doesn't exclusively use brushes then ear plugs would be a wise idea - although some people appear to be able to withstand much higher SPL than others without permanent damage you'll never know if you're one of those people until it's too late.

I don't like running much bass, if any, through monitors - they can rarely handle it without it negatively affecting the rest of the mix through them. I've noticed that bringing down the volume of my rig and the stage volume in general consistently results in a better sound and vibe. However I've continued to take just as much bass rig with me because you can't beat having speakers pointing at your ears, not at your knees!

Alex

I've gotta tell you - if I were a soundguy and some dude came on to my stage with a 2x15 and an 8x10 and played anything at full blast I'd be pissed.

Yourlord - at the point at which this topic came to light, you had played a total of four (yes - 4) gigs.



...and yet you seem to be blowing off the collective wisdom from a bunch of very experienced players who are offering you advice to help make your sound better.

Heck - I reckon lots of the guys here have played more gigs than I've had hot dinners! I'd be taking their advice.



I learned very quickly to talk to the soundguy before I do anything. I always find out what he wants before I start loading up his stage with my gear. Granted - I haven't been around for anything like as long as lots of the guys here - but I have played dozens of gigs, and I'm yet to meet a sound guy I didn't get along well with (I'm sure the time will come, but so far they're all been great guys).

No, I had played 4 venues, 7 gigs.. several at the same venue, not that it makes much difference.. I understand a lot of these guys have a lot more experience in gigging than I do. But I also understand that in any situation where there is equal power applied to my bass, it cuts through the live mix just fine.. It's never been a problem on any of those 7 gigs or in the thousands of jam sessions and rehearsals, except the last gig, where the sound guy just didn't run me at all it seems..

One show where the sound man didn't turn my channel up does not translate into "abandon all your gear and buy a p-bass and a 210 combo.."

Also keep in mind that I had just kicked on the rig after hooking it up and played 2 notes to test if I had signal when I realized someone had jacked the post gain knob all the way up during transport.. I then walked over and dropped it back and kicked out a couple more runs to test and it was fine.. Not loud at all.

I don't have a P-Bass, but my 2x10 combo RAWKS!

Quick note to everyone. I recommended that you never power UP or DOWN an amp, or plug in/unplug your instrument without first turning the volume right down, or pressing the MUTE switch if you have one.

Your amplifier, speakers and ears will last a lot longer.

Very true. Every time I power my combos up or down my Speaker (mute) switch is off, and the gain and master volumes down to zero.

Before the switch is hit my pre and post are both at zero.
After 7 gigs I can tell you one thing for sure. That will not be the last time a hard lesson is learned.
I salute you for keeping a thick skin.

This thread just keeps getting more and more amusing.

You're more and more amusing.

The Firebass actually does not pop the speakers at all.. It appears it doesn't engage the outputs until the amp is stable.. That's my guess at least since it's never popped my speakers.. I also run my boss ME-50B through the effects loop, and plug in the bass with the volume pedal all the way down so I get no pops from that..

ok, I checked the manual on the Firebass 700. TV is so bad at the moment that I have to get my entertainment reading other people's bass amp manuals There appears to be a level control on the DI. Were you DI'd direct from the firebass? Was the soundman aware of this? Could the same event that saw your Master Volume get knocked up also have knocked the line level down?
What did you sound like in sound check?

Pretty soon I'm going to unleash the war kittens upon this thread. Then you'll all be sorry. You'll see.

Which is precisely what would happen to the war kittens in my neighborhood. Meee-Yowww baby!

One of out seven gigs where you didn't like the sound and one gig on which everyone screwed up the tunes.

That's not a good average.

Hope it gets better as you continue.

There were many years when I played seven gigs a week...and they were four hour gigs. Some were good, some were bad. I've forgotten most of them.

Well, I didn't like the sound, but we didn't slaughter it this time.. I hope it gets better as well, and it will..

The line level was set at 5, I set it there when I plugged in the cable. That's the level I always set it at for every gig I actually get a line for. During sound check the sound man discovered the bass wasn't even getting to the board.. We actually had to stand around and wait while they troubleshot the issue and found they had a blown channel on the mixer, which was the one I was plugged into.. They moved my cable to the next channel, where they said they had signal on me, though I never noticed them turn me up on anything.. All I ever heard was my amp, and it was at a fairly low level.. At this point we were so late starting that we just plowed into the set (only a 20 minute set at this place, sucks)..

It's very much possible that the channel I was on was also blown, and that's why I wasn't carried. My issue is that I wasn't given any notice about it. The guy knew what my rig could do from the couple of notes while wide open, and if the house pa couldn't handle the job he could have just told me over the monitor to run the rig higher. no problem.. Instead he had me play while he "set the levels" and gave us the nod to start, when I disappeared completely..

Put it in your biography and move on. It's over, it's been over for a while now.

You brought an 8x10" cabinet and a 2x15" cabinet for a 20 minute set? Wow.

I just mentioned Matt Freeman and Rancid in another thread.

Matt has one 8x10 on stage. Rancid is pretty loud. For part of the show I was onstage behind Matt's amp.

The theater where I saw them was handing out earplugs at the door.

He has the other guys in the band carry the stuff in for him!

How can I work that out with the guys I play with? Our rule is "every man for himself", and my personal rule is, everything I want to bring must be able to get into the place in one trip from the van.

Doesn't everyone?

You can say that again!

???

Do you have a handtruck or do you just DI? I can't imagine how you could carry at least one bass, your leads and pedals, and any amp worth the name in one trip? I can't see you carrying stuff in a gig bag with straps... or am I guessing wrong?

You can actually carry your gig bag with bass, amp (mark bass, eden, focus) and a neo cab in one hand.

Leaves a free hand for a cigarrete.

Well, yeah... if the amp was light enough. I used to have a Bassman combo and, conceivably I could have done it, come to think of it.

Again!

Sorry guys, the temptation was too great.

Lucky I'm not into metal!



Therein lies the problem, my friend.

I can do my bass in gig bag on my back + case with leads etc + 210 combo in one trip.

...have done on numerous occasions

Not as mobile as Phil though. I need some wheels for that combo to get truly portable.

For sure.

Bass on back with accessories in the pocket, amp in the other hand and one hand free to open the door. If we need to bring a PA, we all will help with that as well, but my personal gear usually takes one trip.

If it's a jazz gig, I need 2 as I haven't yet memorized all the tunes so I need a stand and books.

I just let mine dangle from the corner of my mouth. Chicks dig it.

Bass, rack, cab, mic stand, guitar stand, gigcase - 2 trips.
3 if I'm using both cabs.

Same here J!
NOBODY touches my stuff. The last thing I wanna do is end up waiting around to help the drummer load out and the guitarist hauls the lights and PA so forget all that noise. Yeah, yeah - he gets the tip jar.
When I'm done I wanna go home!
"He's usually gone before the last song is over." Damn skippy.

Hey. I'm a balding, graying, middle aged fat guy. Oh but I don't play heavy metal. Never mind.

I think one point to be made is that Jeremy is often hired in. It's not always a "band" in the same sense that some of us have.

For Stonefly, I make two trips, and that's because I carry a large heavy gig bag with PA cables, powered monitor, and mic stands (my amp rig goes on the handtruck - with the bass, that's the first trip). Still, I help the drummers and the singer (he's got the PA), so maybe that's 4 trips total. The sax player helps as well. I don't mind - and they offer to help me as well. It's really a team effort, and we've been together for quite a while.

For church, it's the hand-truck only - one trip.

Tom

I can carry all of my stuff in one trip, too...
My head and pedalboard ride on top of the 6x10, and my two basses fit in my two bass gig bag on my back. All of my cables and whatnot fit in in the pouch outside of the gig bag.

Now, granted, it's not exactly a lightweight set-up, but I can do it all in one trip.

We all help each other. Pain because the drummer is slow. I don't divvy out the money until we are loaded, or almost loaded...

Th damn drummer. In the bar band the drummer is the one loaded. Helping him is guaranteed to get you home at 4.

It all goes on a rock-n-roller cart. I'll take a picture when it stops raining.

My bandmates won't let me carry anything as my back is shot to hell.. Believe me.. I get yelled at by them every show for trying to help.. Anyway, we carry all our gear in a trailer.. taking the whole rig is really not any harder than carrying a small combo in that context until it comes time to load in at the venue.. Most of the venues we've played have ramps to load in on. At the place we've played the most at they have a lift to carry the gear up to the stage level.

One trip regardless of venue or band. Everything fits on a hand truck that I did in fact purchase at Home Depot - however I only paid ~$40 for that same hand truck. Whatever.

Even when I would bring two 4x10 cabs, a rack, effects board, multiple basses, and a garmet bag with gig clothing. One trip.

If I was in a touring band of that size playing venues like that I'd have an Ampeg 810E cab and the matching SVT Classic head. I'd also have a roadie or two that moved it about for me.

I have not done more that one trip in a while, even the last time I played CBGB's Lounge (RIP) with something other than my Gallien Krueger 1x12" combo. CBGB's lounge had a flight of stairs that included one right turn and two left turns, and I only made one trip. Gigbag on my back, amplifier over my shoulder (Eden WT-330), a Bergantino EX112 in my left hand and a Bergantino HT112 in my right hand.

I would not do it for a long walk, but very manageable from the front door to the stairs and to the stage.

Ive got one of these (1x15) and I know I'm a wimp but I find it hard to move by myself.

Kudos for admitting it. I bet that H&K blares eh? Love those.

I had a Fender combo that weighed just under 100 lbs. It had castors but everything up here in Hee-Haw-Hell has stairs. Loading in I could do it alone but at the end of the night I was usually at the mercy of my bandmates.

Hey... which one was that? I bought last year (After some years of lusting for one of those) a GK MB200 1x12 combo. I found out for a couple gigs I did right after buying it it was not enough (were open air gigs, so I ended using it as a pre-amp (speaker switched off), and DIed it to the PA and heard myself through a couple of fine sidefill monitors the soundguy had. Then I realized I could make several nice arrangements with it, to suit most situations. I got built a couple cheap ozite-covered cabs, one is a 4x10 and the other a 1x15. I filled them up with some repaired speakers I had laying around (thankfully the 10s were same model and wattage, from a local Venezuelan brand) and had them guys find me a cheap 15".

What I´ve found is the MB200 has a NICE sound when combining its internal 12" with any of the other cabs (Either the 4x10, the 1x15 or a 1x12 which was indeed a Washburn bass combo of which I only have left the -closed back- cab with the speaker). Different sounds, but enough to fit almost any situation I have been involved in, without having to haul out the 6-spaces rack and building a bass soundwall.

Just wondered if it was about the same case. By the way... isn´t it peculiar that the MB200, being somewhat of a "practice" amp (Yet a powerful one for its size), has WAY more features (compressor, chorus, built in DI, efx loop, ext spkr out, phones out -even tho this would be expected from a "practice" amp) than his bigger siblings, RB400 and the Backline series heads? I wonder why couldn´t them keep all those equally fitted... been lured into having a RB400, but when comparing, I always go back to having the MB200 with an extra cab... most of the times the 1x12 is sweet enough...

More fuel for this fire:

Friday night I played at a pretty good sized venue that has a ridiculously huge sound system - and a very good one at that. This is a place that big acts play at all the time. Steve Vai has played there on a number of occasions. One of Motorhead's setlists was still taped up back stage for the lighting guys.

My band played second. To save change over time the opening band used our drums and my bass rig - we'd discussed this beforehand as we are friends with this band. The bass player in said band usually brings 3 2x15 cabs. Yes. You read correctly. 3. Three. One song into their set the front of house soundman was yelling at him to turn down.

So what you're saying is this other guy should've bought a beer for the soundguy, so he wouldn't get mad at him for cranking your miniscule rig?

Hold on, Bump...
I got this one.

You're a miniscule rig.

Well played.

Unfortunately, I resemble that remark.... (bows head and walks off stage)

Wowzy wowzy woo woo.