Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Topic Options
#1863942 - 12/30/07 08:35 AM The Death of High Fidelity
stuart Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
_________________________
vst bass manager

Top
#1864230 - 12/30/07 08:45 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: stuart]
Griffinator Offline
TPS cook & bottle washer
20k Club

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20318
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
Old news to the rest of us. About goddamned time Rolling Stone caught up...

Top
#1928503 - 04/17/08 12:03 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: Griffinator]
BluMunk Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 624
Loc: Burlington, VT
Late to the party, but this from the article:

 Quote:

"When people have the courage and the vision to do a record that way, it sets them apart," says Joe Boyd, who produced albums by Richard Thompson and R.E.M.'s Fables of the Reconstruction. "It sounds warm, it sounds three-dimensional, it sounds different. Analog sound to me is more emotionally affecting."


(my bolding)

Why do people conflate these two issues? The article is not at all about digital vs. analog, yet this guy (who is apparently bright enough to know better) makes an argument that has nothing to do with compression.

Top
#1928684 - 04/17/08 08:26 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: BluMunk]
Griffinator Offline
TPS cook & bottle washer
20k Club

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20318
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
I think there's a semantic issue happening there.

Folks who used nothing but analog equipment to master records back in the day had to use their ears, not their eyes.

Nowadays, the mastering studio is expected to extract every dB of headroom they can out of the material, which means they have to use the digital devices to get real-time reads on how hot everything is.

So digital is blamed for a problem that was created by the existence of digital, but not digital itself...

Top
#1928926 - 04/18/08 09:37 AM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: Griffinator]
BluMunk Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 624
Loc: Burlington, VT
Perhaps you're right.

I've just gotten so over-saturated with the analog/digital debate that I jump at any language that suggests one is somehow inherently better in all applications all of the time.

Top
#1935105 - 04/30/08 08:40 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: BluMunk]
MILLO Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 3970
Loc: Austin, TX
funny.... i've been looking online eyeing components for an old-school hi-fi system... not too old-school, more like relatively good cd, receiver and speakers to listen to old classical music cd's and ENJOY ITS SOUND, hear it in a way I can't on the computer... 'cuz I can't pay for an Ayon tube amp, Musical Fidelity CD player and Canton speakers.


Edited by MILLO (04/30/08 08:47 PM)
_________________________
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

My MySpace Space

Top
#1935110 - 04/30/08 08:46 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: MILLO]
MILLO Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 3970
Loc: Austin, TX
We touched the subject sometime last year and people were talking how Rush's cd Vapor Trails sounded like the recording itself was distorted. To me, it sounded disgusting.

Technology now can do better, the issue is now the general public has been accustomed to horrible, HYPED sound, so why wouldn't they want to listen to music from their ipods or computer speakers. By the way, I've noticed that w/ my iPod (an old one from about 4 yrs ago, hopefully the newer ones are better) things sound different, lots of details are more difficult to hear. HYPE is the law of the day. Shit, I sound like my old man when I was young, LOL!!!
_________________________
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
--from 'Beyond Good and Evil', by Friedrich Nietzsche

My MySpace Space

Top
#1939728 - 05/09/08 08:35 AM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: MILLO]
HarryE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 10
 Originally Posted By: MILLO
funny.... i've been looking online eyeing components for an old-school hi-fi system... not too old-school, more like relatively good cd, receiver and speakers to listen to old classical music cd's and ENJOY ITS SOUND, hear it in a way I can't on the computer... 'cuz I can't pay for an Ayon tube amp, Musical Fidelity CD player and Canton speakers.

I don't like to think of a decent CD player, receiver and speakers as old school, it depresses me. \:\) \:\(

Top
#1940420 - 05/10/08 08:38 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: HarryE]
Griffinator Offline
TPS cook & bottle washer
20k Club

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20318
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
 Originally Posted By: HarryE
 Originally Posted By: MILLO
funny.... i've been looking online eyeing components for an old-school hi-fi system... not too old-school, more like relatively good cd, receiver and speakers to listen to old classical music cd's and ENJOY ITS SOUND, hear it in a way I can't on the computer... 'cuz I can't pay for an Ayon tube amp, Musical Fidelity CD player and Canton speakers.

I don't like to think of a decent CD player, receiver and speakers as old school, it depresses me. \:\) \:\(


Old School, if you're chasing after a great sound, isn't just "a decent CD player, receiver, and speakers"

Old school is a high quality CD player (preferably a high-end Japanese single-disc unit from the late 80's, Nakamichi comes immediately to mind) which can be had for less than $100 if you know where to shop...

Old school is a great analog preamp - the options are endless here, as many as your wallet will allow - plenty of new players on this market, as well as stalwarts that have been doing it since "compact disc" meant 45 RPM singles....

Old school is either a pair of monoblocks or a great integrated stereo tube amplifier - again, the options are endless, and a lot hinge on what kind of speakers you fancy. Paul Klipsch was quoted as saying "What the world needs now is one great watt" - meaning that a super-efficient pair of speakers could deliver great sound with an amp that delivered super-clean power at super-low volume - because a super-efficient pair of speakers didn't need stupid wattage to give you maximum dynamics and volume.

Top
#1952631 - 06/03/08 02:34 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: stuart]
tonyggg Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 111

Top
#1952643 - 06/03/08 03:18 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: tonyggg]
Griffinator Offline
TPS cook & bottle washer
20k Club

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20318
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
Very much so, Tony.

I still comb the piles at yard sales and flea markets, seeking nice clean black discs for my personal enjoyment.

Top
#1962495 - 06/25/08 02:24 AM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: Griffinator]
Neil Wilkes Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 515
Loc: London, UK
Sorry to butt in here - but can someone please explain to me why Tube Amps are considered to be "High Fidelity"?
No "matched" tubes are going to stay matched for long - around an hour or so of hard use and they will already be starting to sound different to each other.
Circuitry is important too. Is the config to be push-pull (2 valves per channel) or Class A?
Tubes add noise too - admittedly very pleasing noise, but hifi it ain't.

Someone please tell me where I am going wrong?
_________________________
www.opusproductions.com

Top
#1962540 - 06/25/08 06:48 AM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: Neil Wilkes]
Griffinator Offline
TPS cook & bottle washer
20k Club

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20318
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
Neil - SS and tubes alike add distortion to the signal - but the even/odd harmonics are where the two depart.

While tube amplifiers produce slightly higher harmonic distortion than SS across the frequency spectrum (due to the absence of negative feedback) SS also suffers from that NFB causing reduced slew rates - which can affect the overall linearity of the signal to a MUCH greater degree than the even-order THD - particularly when we consider that all that negative feedback also reduces the presence of even-order harmonics in the distortion pattern, making the distortion produced by SS amps with high feedback much "colder" and more unnatural to the ear.

BTW - you're a bit confused about tube amp varieties. Push-Pull and Single Ended are your two flavors, and both are capable of functioning in class A operation.

Top
#2210990 - 07/13/10 02:16 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: Griffinator]
Bob Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Originally Posted By: Griffinator

Folks who used nothing but analog equipment to master records back in the day had to use their ears, not their eyes.


My best friend has a story from the 80s when his band went into a studio to do an album and the producer taped over the VU meters and told the engineer that they would be doing it all by ear. The engineer panicked and said "How will we know when it's distorted?"

Didn't some of the old school mastering guys also add ambience with controlled use of headroom? I recall recordings that I did (as a musician) in the 70s that sounded flat when they were mixed but had life when they cam back from the mastering labs.

Top
#2211737 - 07/15/10 05:01 PM Re: The Death of High Fidelity [Re: Bob Walker]
Griffinator Offline
TPS cook & bottle washer
20k Club

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 20318
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
Originally Posted By: Bob Walker
Originally Posted By: Griffinator

Folks who used nothing but analog equipment to master records back in the day had to use their ears, not their eyes.


My best friend has a story from the 80s when his band went into a studio to do an album and the producer taped over the VU meters and told the engineer that they would be doing it all by ear. The engineer panicked and said "How will we know when it's distorted?"

Didn't some of the old school mastering guys also add ambience with controlled use of headroom? I recall recordings that I did (as a musician) in the 70s that sounded flat when they were mixed but had life when they cam back from the mastering labs.


It's amazing what a good expander and very, very delicate usage of parametric EQ can do to add life to a flat-sounding mix that was overcompressed at the mixing desk.

Top