Ever hold grudge for not getting the job after audition?

[keysplease]

I'm far from the greatest player in the world. But I'm good, and have been asked to play with a healthy majority of the bands I've auditioned for.

 

But one band in particular still haunts me. They brought me out, and I never heard from them again. I really wanted the gig, because they make great money at nice venues.

 

I was ticked off after not hearing from them. But now, a former band mate and friend of mine is their new guitar player. When he comes to my gigs, he brings some members of the band that never called back, and I admit, deep-down, I hate them. Well, not hate, but it's weird. To this day none of them have even explained what happened. (They eventually hired a guy who can sing well -- I can't, so I'm fairly sure that was the issue).

 

I feel weird asking "why didn't I get the gig?" (sounds childish and I lacking confidence). Anyone have similar experiences?

[Strategery]

Yeah, I know the feeling.

 

Look at it like this....

 

It's not just who's best, but several things.

Sure, an added talent such as singing can mean the difference between getting the gig or not.

But, what stands out to me is....the fact that they didn't even have the decency to call you back...LIKE AN ADULT...and thank you for auditioning but another person got the gig.

 

To me, that would tell me THANK GOD I didn't get the gig.

I don't like people like that....period.

It shows their maturity level.

It's just common courtesy and they weren't even capable of that.

 

Another thing too.

It's not just who's the better player, but which style meshes with the other band members.

Sometimes, it's just similar personalities that will get you the gig...even if you're NOT the better player.

 

Hey, you're human, don't worry about...but get over it.

 

Randy

[MikeT156]

Yeah, that's rude. But keep at it. You might find a better group that has enough singers and just needs an outstanding KB player.

 

Mike T.

[Moonglow]

Given your history of landing the majority of your auditions/gigs, I suspect it's not your playing. However, your hunch regarding the singing thing could be a contributing factor. Do they play songs that have a lot of challenging keyboard parts? If not, perhaps they could get by with an average keyboardist that sings well. Also, there could be factors involved that you are not aware of. Maybe there is a strong personal connection with the guy they selected and one of the band members. Or maybe the keyboard guy is playing on the cheap. Or maybe someone in the band felt threatened/intimidated by you. Or maybe the guy they picked has a hot girlfriend.....

 

Like you, I have landed the majority of my auditions, including one for a band that had a singer that previously had an album out with Columbia (I eventually ended up passing on the gig). But the one I didnt get resonated within me, even though it was a comparatively low-level gig (cocktail piano at a restaurant, one or two nights weekly). Wondering why I did not get the job, I asked a mutual friend of my wife that worked as a waitress there what the deal was, and she advised that it was because the owner did not personally like that fact that I work as a professional in my day job. Apparently he felt I would not be committed to the gig because I presumably did not need the money..... So it had nothing to do with my playing!

 

If you are uncomfortable asking as to why you were not selected, I would encourage you to put your friend up to it (Hey, my buddy auditioned for you guys a while back, what happened?"). If its the singing issue, you can take that bullet. But it could also be the result of factors external to yourself.....which may make you feel better and provide a degree of closure.

 

[Tonysounds]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, and I wouldn't hold a grudge against them. Just ask: "hey, do you remember when I auditioned for your gig? I'd like to know why so I can be better prepared for other auditions I go for."

 

Treat it like any job interview. They don't all call back to say "sorry, you didn't get the job." In fact, most don't. But the ones that do, I'd always ask "was there something I was missing, or that I mishandled during the interview?"

 

T

[ProfD]

Keysplease, these things certainly happen through no fault of your own. I totally agree with the comments above.

 

The best way to get closure is to ask the question. I'm sure it had nothing to do with your level of competency.

 

The one gig I wanted and didn't get wasn't really worth my time. Sometimes "not getting it" is a blessing.

 

Always look at it from the brighter side especially when you know "better".

[Bobadohshe]

I agree with Tony. They might not call you back and you shouldn't see it as rudeness neccesarily, it's kind of the way that thing goes. They might not make a decision and might want to keep their options open anyway, and by the time they do find what they're looking for you will have assumed you didn't get the gig and it all works out.

 

I went on an audition 2 weeks ago in L.A. and wanted to share this story as it's relevant to this thread. I also didn't get called back.

 

I was actually hanging out with Jazzwee and Dave Ferris on a Wednesday when I got a call from this British chick based in L.A. who needed a keyboard player and got my number from a guitar player I know. She said she was on a label in NY and was putting her band together and was having auditions at S.I.R. on Sunset in Hollywood. Sounded super legit. She sent me 3 tracks to learn for an audition that was 2 days later. The tracks had SICK production on them with 54,320 synth parts- kind of a cross between Goldfrapp and the Killers. So I feverishely shed the stuff, diligently programming 2 Motifs and my MS2000 so I could play all these parts and blow their minds.

 

I show up for the audition and start rapping with the band a little bit. I get a nice repore going and they help me unload my car and set up. I'm excited as it we're at one of the most prestigious rehearsal spots in L.A. and it seems legit and I know this stuff and at least on the CD, it sounded great. Well the band starts playing, and within 2 seconds I realize that things aren't what I hoped. The drummer's time is wobbly. The guitar player is uncertain on parts. The bassist is too aggresive. And the chick is missing all kinds of notes that she nailed on the CD. It was a classic case of producer takes average artist and makes killer track.

 

So after nailing what I needed to nail more than the rest of the band actually, she say's 'okay thanks very much. Can you rehearse everyday? We start Thursday'. And even though they were paying $75 a rehearsal, I simply cannot drop my life and rehearse with this average band everyday. So I said 'well probably not, but call me later and we'll talk about it'.

 

They never called me. I nailed the shit more than they knew I had, I knew the tunes better than they did, I had a great laid back, confident and friendly vibe, but they never called me.

 

And I'm not bothered about it.

[Steve Force]

What Bobadohshe said!

[BluesKeys]

I had this happen to me several years back and I found out that the bass player the band had just hired before the KB search started convinced them to hire his buddy. When his buddy became unreliable the original keyboard player asked if he could come back so I never got a shot at it. THANK GOODNESS for unanswered prayers. I could not have played long with this band. For one I didn't know 90% of the matterial going in and I didn't like 80% of it when I heard it. I would have been miserable. So I let it go.

[ITGITC]

I nailed the shit more than they knew I had, I knew the tunes better than they did, I had a great laid back, confident and friendly vibe, but they never called me.

 

And I'm not bothered about it.

 

[Blue JC]

I'm a little surprised by your reaction and that of some of the posters here. You only get the "call-back" if you made the band. I've never heard of anyone getting a call who didn't make the band - unless it was on the QT from someone they knew on the inside of the process.

 

Holding a grudge about this is an exercise in futility. There could be a hundred reasons (most out of your control) why you didn't get the gig.

 

In my experience, you're better off finding out NOW that you're not a good fit rather than investing all of that time and energy into learning their show only to find out LATER that you're not a good fit.

 

There's no benefit to you in taking this stuff personally.

[Strategery]

Yeah, but being able to plan your time is important as well.

 

WHAT IF...he were to be accepted but ASSUMED that he wasn't and made other plans?

 

Randy

[Steve Force]

..then he has options.

 

Options are a good thing.

[Bill H.]

I'm a little surprised by your reaction and that of some of the posters here. You only get the "call-back" if you made the band. I've never heard of anyone getting a call who didn't make the band - unless it was on the QT from someone they knew on the inside of the process.

 

Yeah, exactly. An audition usually ends with "We'll call you if we need you." Over the years I've made some cuts, not made others, but I never expect a call back if they don't need me.

 

I remember years ago auditioning for the most popular and the probably highest paid non-cover band in the Sea-Tac area. A few days later my roommate took a call from the leader saying to call him back. I was sure I had made it, and was so excited I had to calm down before returning the call.

 

As it turned out, he was was calling me to tell me the opposite. A very nice gesture from a true gentleman.

 

So what did I do? He did something considerate, and I held a grudge about it because my hopes had been artificially raised over my own false assumptions. It didn't work the way it was supposed to at all.

[MikeT156]

Bill:

 

I don't think I could hold a grudge against someone that had the courtesy to call me back and let me know I didn't get the gig. Its better than waiting around and getting nothing but silence. I think people that give you an audition and take up your time should at least have the common courtesy to let you know you didn't make it for whatever reason. I've found numerous day job employers that have the same lack of intestinal fortitude.

 

Mike T.

[Blue JC]

There have been short stories, songs, novels, even TV shows written about actors or musicians who were waiting for the callback after an audition. Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that you got the "call-back" when they wanted you to come "back" to audition again or join the band/show. "No call" meant "no show".

 

In other words, "if we want you back, we will call you back by Friday. If we don't call, we don't want you back." I always thought that this was a theater tradition that went back years and years.

[Bill H.]

Mike I'm not saying that my reaction was what it should have been, but that's what it was. And it was crazy.

 

This was over 20 years ago, and I think I would be better about it and appreciate his call more today.

[Darcity]

Never hold grudges! Sometimes you have to put your ego behind you. I always look at the overall picture: was I a perfect fit for the band, was I unaware that I outplayed everyone else that made me "stick-out" too much, was I too loud, did I fluently know the song, what did I bring/contribute to help enhance the band's sound, etc. There will always be other better, bigger,and greater opportunities.

 

The question to ask yourself is "what did I learn from this audition that will make me a strong candidate for the next audition?"

[SpaceNorman]

Although I don't have a ton of experience in the musical audition game - I've done a ton of interviews in my time. Not getting a call-back doesn't surprise me in the least. Even though the thought that it's rude that they didn't take the time to say thanks but no-thanks might cross my mind (especially if I thought that the interview/audition went real well) - I would NEVER hold a grudge about it. I can't count the number of times I've interviewed for a position that I didn't get - only to have somebody who was part of the interview process call me back days/weeks/months later - with interest created by that initial interview. You never know if/how/when a seed planted in an interview or audition is going to bear fruit for you.

[marino]

I can only recall a couple of instances, both from many years ago. In the first occasion, the bandleader (a drummer) held the wrong kind of audition in my opinion; even though I was supposed to play rock songs, he invited me over to his place, put me in front of a piano, and said, "Let's jam". Just drums and piano. Now, I understand he wanted to test the feel of my playing before anything else - but he started playing some generic swing/shuffle rhythm, and I wasn't sure what he expected from me. I started improvising over various progressions, and he just kept playing the same kind of thing for more than half an hour, without saying a thing.

When we finally stopped, I suggested that we could play over some specific tune, but he just stopped playing and started talking about music for another 30 minutes or so, leaving me little space to reply.

He said he would have called back, and waved me goodbye in very good terms. I never heard from him.

That was frustrating, because it was too generic; he gave me the opportunity to show maybe 5% of what I could do. I didn't even have a chance to *talk* about it. And, the audition had nothing to do with the music we were supposed to play onstage.

I guess certain people want to be sure to like you at skin level, so to speak, before even attempting to work with you; and maybe, in that occasion, he didn't find that chemical affinity... go figure.

 

In the second instance, I did pass the audition, but after a few days of reharsals, I realized I was in trouble. The bandleader, an old and well-respected musician, was a virtuoso pianist who also sang; but it was the first time that he had hired a keyboard player. Trouble was, he was the MD too, and didn't know anything about keyboards. He seemed to believe that the keyboardist should be ready to play any sound at any given moment, including full orchestra complete with arrangement, marching band, police sirens, vibraphone, gunshots, clarinet, jew's harp... I'm not exaggerating: He asked me for each of these sounds plus many more, in the middle of tunes, expecting me to find the sound instantly with no previous knowledge, and play credible parts within the frame of the tune.

I mean, it could have been funny if not for the absurd expectations; he made me search frantically for sounds while playing, then laughed at me for looking so anxious, and didn't understand the concept of 'programming' at all. I tried to reason with him about preparing things in advance at least a little, but by then, he was probably convinced that I didn't know what I was doing and that I simply wasn't a good keyboardist.

The moral: After a few days of this, I had enough and tried to find the most elegant way to exit the picture. I gave up a long tour and *very* good money by doing this, but I'm not one to please the boss at all costs. I like to think I'm flexible, but when you cross the line of absurdity, I'm not committing myself for any long period of time.

 

My replacement, a nice and talented young guy, received about the same treatment, and was fired after a while.

[nmcq]

Maybe you were too good. Seriously. And as a result, someone else was worried they wouldn't get noticed as much, wouldn't get as much spotlight time. It happens.

 

Neil

nmcq333@cox.net

[Andre Lower]

Well I am having a similar (although non-musical) experience right now. I immigrated to Canada three months ago with a very positive impression of the job market. The Loony is skyrocketing and the unemployment rate is a record low right now. After half a dozen interviews in which I did what Bobadoshe described (I gave them my best references, showcased my experience and best assets, etc.) I was turned down in each and every instance. The standard lable is "lack of Canadian experience". Hard as I try, I can't see any lesson coming out of these interviews. I would honestly appreciate if they could tell me the real reason for turning me down, which could help me improve on whatever they decide I am missing. But they do as they please, and I am left with the rejection and worry for my future.

 

[JohnH]

The only gig I didn't get recently was about 5 years ago. I was majorly bummed out, but at least I didn't get for a good reason. The guy that got it was the singer of Leatherwolf, so a semi rock star and I felt that was justified. He's a friend of mine who played with me on my cruise ship in 94, years after his rock star era. I later ended up going to seem them with him several times and it was always my favorite band. They've never called me up to sing or play though, even though I sing good, maybe I'm just not liked for whatever reason. Unfortunately that band's lost most (but not all) of their gigs, which totally sucks, and the bandleader has had to diversify into tribute bands and acoustic gigs. My doors band actually opened up for his a couple of weeks ago and it was good to see him. I still try to check out whatever gig he has when I can. After the audition I joined an 80s band and Springsteen tribute did tons of subwork and tech for touring act and then joined my weekend band. I ended up getting tons of more work and experience with tons of bands that year than if I'd joined the failed audition band, (and I had no day job then) so this actually worked out better for me in the long run. You may find the same. Oh and that bandleader is a class act and called and left a message letting me know I didn't get the gig. That was appreciated.

 

John

[mate stubb]

The standard lable is "lack of Canadian experience". Hard as I try, I can't see any lesson coming out of these interviews. I would honestly appreciate if they could tell me the real reason for turning me down, which could help me improve on whatever they decide I am missing.

 

Did you wear your Geddy tshirt?

[Andre Lower]

Nah. I wore a black suit with a yellow silk tie. According to my wife I look sharp as a knife in it, and I am not shy about talking to strangers (I sing in a rock'n Roll band for Christ's Sake!), but still I did not get the gig.

[Eric VB]

It's human nature to feel that way but you really have to let it go. You don't want to burn any bridges. That band could break up, or one of the members might want to start a side project, and you might be the best fit for that.

 

I'm sure you've been on the other side of the table as well and had to pass over a good player because someone else fit your band better. It's never easy telling someone they didn't make the cut; it'd be even harder to have to explain in detail why they didn't.

 

It sounds like you've figured out what the difference was in this case: vocals. At least if you can identify your weaknesses it makes it easier to address them.

 

Or you can accept yourself as you are and also accept that some bands may pass you over as you are.

 

I was passed over for a solo in marching band (don't laugh too hard) because on the day of the quickie audition -- just going down the line and taking turns -- my spit valve malfunctioned, I missed the entrance, and I was not given a second chance. To this day I believe I had the best prepared solo but if I hold it against the guest conductor that held the auditions it does me no good. It just makes me bitter. So I have to let it go and move on.

[Joe Muscara]

We just had a guitar player try out for our band, and while he seemed cool when he was here, a few days later I called him to follow up and let him know what was up. My intent was to get his overall feel of us, and tell him that he was still in the running but we had two other guys left to try. I neither planned to give him a detailed critique of what I thought of him, nor did I expect one from him, but that's what I got.

 

Usually, a person trying out for the band either says, "you guys are cool, I want to be a part of this," or "you guys seem cool, but I don't think it's going to work for me." This guy proceeded to tell me he "wasn't pleased with the size of the room" (I told him it was small beforehand, we deal with it, tell me something I don't know), he thought the format that we played the songs was difficult and that he'd rather play a song 4 - 5 times so he could figure out what he should play (we focus on jamming and having fun, not practicing, I thought I said that beforehand too), he then started to talk about "how advanced" he thought each one of us was, and said that he thought I was the least advanced (oh, nice!). Strangely, while he commented on the bass, keys, and drums, I don't think he *ever* mentioned the singer, which tells me he did not like her. Still, he said he was interested in playing with us again.

 

Despite all the thought he obviously put into this, he clearly did not understand what we are about. His comments were unsolicited and perhaps even offensive, considering that he played rather meekly and had difficulty with the songs when he was here. His playing was competent, don't get me wrong, but he's really insecure about his playing and if I were him, I'd be more concerned about that than what the rest of us were doing, which often was carrying him and the tune because he often did not step up when he should have.

 

So do you think I'm going to call him back to let him know he's not getting the gig?

 

Actually, I might only because I know another band he sometimes plays with and one of the other guitar players we might try out is from there too. Otherwise, I would not bother. I'm sure he would ask why and if I were to tell him today I'd probably light into him. Hopefully by the time I tell him I'll be in a better mood about it.

[phat_fingers]

Grudges are just a waste of time and energy. You play keys... the most sought after musician.

 

I have found that when you don't get a call back, most of the time it boils down to two things.

 

The "people" dynamics were off or you were way better than them and they feel threatened.... or both

[nursers]

We just had a guitar player try out for our band, and while he seemed cool when he was here, a few days later I called him to follow up and let him know what was up. My intent was to get his overall feel of us, and tell him that he was still in the running but we had two other guys left to try. I neither planned to give him a detailed critique of what I thought of him, nor did I expect one from him, but that's what I got.

 

Usually, a person trying out for the band either says, "you guys are cool, I want to be a part of this," or "you guys seem cool, but I don't think it's going to work for me." This guy proceeded to tell me he "wasn't pleased with the size of the room" (I told him it was small beforehand, we deal with it, tell me something I don't know), he thought the format that we played the songs was difficult and that he'd rather play a song 4 - 5 times so he could figure out what he should play (we focus on jamming and having fun, not practicing, I thought I said that beforehand too), he then started to talk about "how advanced" he thought each one of us was, and said that he thought I was the least advanced (oh, nice!). Strangely, while he commented on the bass, keys, and drums, I don't think he *ever* mentioned the singer, which tells me he did not like her. Still, he said he was interested in playing with us again.

 

Despite all the thought he obviously put into this, he clearly did not understand what we are about. His comments were unsolicited and perhaps even offensive, considering that he played rather meekly and had difficulty with the songs when he was here. His playing was competent, don't get me wrong, but he's really insecure about his playing and if I were him, I'd be more concerned about that than what the rest of us were doing, which often was carrying him and the tune because he often did not step up when he should have.

 

So do you think I'm going to call him back to let him know he's not getting the gig?

 

Actually, I might only because I know another band he sometimes plays with and one of the other guitar players we might try out is from there too. Otherwise, I would not bother. I'm sure he would ask why and if I were to tell him today I'd probably light into him. Hopefully by the time I tell him I'll be in a better mood about it.

 

Update please Joe

[Joe Muscara]

We just had a guitar player try out for our band, and while he seemed cool when he was here, a few days later I called him to follow up and let him know what was up. My intent was to get his overall feel of us, and tell him that he was still in the running but we had two other guys left to try. I neither planned to give him a detailed critique of what I thought of him, nor did I expect one from him, but that's what I got.

 

Usually, a person trying out for the band either says, "you guys are cool, I want to be a part of this," or "you guys seem cool, but I don't think it's going to work for me." This guy proceeded to tell me he "wasn't pleased with the size of the room" (I told him it was small beforehand, we deal with it, tell me something I don't know), he thought the format that we played the songs was difficult and that he'd rather play a song 4 - 5 times so he could figure out what he should play (we focus on jamming and having fun, not practicing, I thought I said that beforehand too), he then started to talk about "how advanced" he thought each one of us was, and said that he thought I was the least advanced (oh, nice!). Strangely, while he commented on the bass, keys, and drums, I don't think he *ever* mentioned the singer, which tells me he did not like her. Still, he said he was interested in playing with us again.

 

Despite all the thought he obviously put into this, he clearly did not understand what we are about. His comments were unsolicited and perhaps even offensive, considering that he played rather meekly and had difficulty with the songs when he was here. His playing was competent, don't get me wrong, but he's really insecure about his playing and if I were him, I'd be more concerned about that than what the rest of us were doing, which often was carrying him and the tune because he often did not step up when he should have.

 

So do you think I'm going to call him back to let him know he's not getting the gig?

 

Actually, I might only because I know another band he sometimes plays with and one of the other guitar players we might try out is from there too. Otherwise, I would not bother. I'm sure he would ask why and if I were to tell him today I'd probably light into him. Hopefully by the time I tell him I'll be in a better mood about it.

 

Update please Joe

Wow! 2007? Zombie thread alert! I'm trying to remember which guy this was. We ended up with someone completely different than the ones mentioned, he was great for a while but the band came apart after that. That's another story in itself, but I'm not going to get into it here because that's some VERY old history I'd rather stay moved on from!