niacin Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I recently joined a band that plays a few festivals each year, and we got backline info way too late for me to do anything other than rock up with my own rig (SK1-73/RD64), but it got me thinking about backline gear. For this gig backline was a Nord Stage, which would have served just fine, and with more notice I could have downloaded the manual and made sure I understood anything that wasn't clear from the front panel. So I'm wondering what you guys tend to do in circumstances where you do have the choice of bringing your own gear (i.e. no plane travel) or using backline, what backline keyboards you find to be the most common, and any stories that might serve as a warning either way. With regard to the latter: one band with a keyboard player with rather more dedication than myself rocked up with a Hammond C3, but had to use their backup XK3 because power was cycling at 60HZ instead of 50HZ so the C3 was out of tune. The C3 did serve as a very attractive stand for a D6 though! And while I'm sure it mattered to the keyboard player, out front I don't think it made a noticeable difference: the dude played like a MOFO regardless. Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markay Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 With regard to the latter: one band with a keyboard player with rather more dedication than myself rocked up with a Hammond C3, but had to use their backup XK3 because power was cycling at 60HZ instead of 50HZ so the C3 was out of tune. The C3 did serve as a very attractive stand for a D6 though! And while I'm sure it mattered to the keyboard player, out front I don't think it made a noticeable difference: the dude played like a MOFO regardless. Congrats on joining the new band, enjoy the festival circuit. Someone didn't do their homework, I have seen Hammond luminiaries like Dr Lonnie Smith, Booker T and Steve Winwood out here and they all played B3's in standard pitch. I don't know whether they were hired or have their own 230/240 v 60hz versions but any Hammond player who tours internationally would be aware of this issue. A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I haven't backlined often, but I've played multi-band festivals where the organisers have provided a DP, such as a Roland RD or Yamaha CP. I've always had an emergency board in the car/backstage just in case. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yup, these are just the kind of scenarios where something small and lightweight (like my SK1) can save the day. Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37 Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBous Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I did a bunch of backlined gigs this summner. I always bring my Electro 5D 73 with me just in case. In some cases the backlined equipment was junk that I wouldn't touch. Sometimes it was fine. Never know until you get there. I always feel better when I have a board with me as a backup. The Electro is perfect because it is lighweight, quick setup and I can play an entire gig with it if I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Before I started bringing my own controller with me on planes, the most-backlined keyboard I saw at all my gigs on the road were Yamaha Motifs, with a very occasional Roland Fantom. Maybe things are different in Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If you are touring with a tonewheel organ, you should have a way to generate the correct line frequency for yourself. Ignoring cross-country issues, generators are NOT a stable enough source of line power for an organ, unless the generator tech works for the band. Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 With regard to the latter: one band with a keyboard player with rather more dedication than myself rocked up with a Hammond C3, but had to use their backup XK3 because power was cycling at 60HZ instead of 50HZ so the C3 was out of tune. The C3 did serve as a very attractive stand for a D6 though! And while I'm sure it mattered to the keyboard player, out front I don't think it made a noticeable difference: the dude played like a MOFO regardless. Congrats on joining the new band, enjoy the festival circuit. Someone didn't do their homework, I have seen Hammond luminiaries like Dr Lonnie Smith, Booker T and Steve Winwood out here and they all played B3's in standard pitch. I don't know whether they were hired or have their own 230/240 v 60hz versions but any Hammond player who tours internationally would be aware of this issue. Oh he knew what he was doing, but we got backline and such information really really late, so he obviously packed the XK-3 just in case, which was all good. I might have the 60HZ / 50HZ back the front too, but anyway it wasn't what the organ needed. I have remembered that B3er posted a while back about having to play a Numa Organ as backline and the supplied pedal shat itself so he had to ride the volume knob. Reminds me that I need to buy a second FC-7 (I have spares of every other cord and lead I might need). Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markay Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Australia and most 230v countries are 50hz, the US and most 110/120v countries are 60hz. That is why converting a Hammond is trickier than it first appears, usually involves a gear change for the tonewheel generator IIRC. There is a tech in Melbourne who is an expert on all things Hammond. A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 This well help: TREK SC-60D-1 and SC-60D-2 FREQUENCY CONVERSION UNITS "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKeys Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 It has been awhile since I was doing plane travel so I carry my gear for festivals. But when I did air travel I always carried my Roland VK-8m module and my GEM module. As long as they had some sort of keys I was fine. Jimmy Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT www.steveowensandsummertime.com www.jimmyweaver.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks. Looks like I understood what he said correctly, that he expected 50HZ as is usual here (he tours fairly constantly), but it makes me wonder if there is any reason a generator putting out 240v would be running at 60HZ ? Australia and most 230v countries are 50hz, the US and most 110/120v countries are 60hz. That is why converting a Hammond is trickier than it first appears, usually involves a gear change for the tonewheel generator IIRC. There is a tech in Melbourne who is an expert on all things Hammond. Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yannis D Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 It has been awhile since I was doing plane travel so I carry my gear for festivals. But when I did air travel I always carried my Roland VK-8m module and my GEM module. As long as they had some sort of keys I was fine. I have done more than 100 fly in gigs and i often found myself in the most funny or embarassing situations. The only way to reduce problems is your way - carry a minimum of your sounds with you. I always have with me my old and trusty XV2020 and my Apple laptop with Mainstage. All sounds/patches are in there so i only use the Nord Stage they usually bring me as a controller and for the internal AP and EP sounds. When the Nord is not there i use my own sounds only... Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markay Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks. Looks like I understood what he said correctly, that he expected 50HZ as is usual here (he tours fairly constantly), but it makes me wonder if there is any reason a generator putting out 240v would be running at 60HZ ? Bizzare but beyond my paygrade to explain. A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Are you sure it was 60Hz? More likely just running a bit fast. 60Hz will make the organ almost usable, transposed up a minor third (less a few cents). Wes Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Are you sure it was 60Hz? More likely just running a bit fast. 60Hz will make the organ almost usable, transposed up a minor third (less a few cents). Wes yes you're right, running fast i.e. over 50HZ which made it out of tune. I guess that's just down to the instability of the generator? Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Indeed. This is very very very very common. If you are touring with a tonewheel organ, you MUST have a plan to get stable power independently of the generator. Outdoor environments aren't the only place they are used. Some arenas, etc, run concert power from generators. http://shop.keyboardpartner.de/SWC-50-SQ-frequency-stabilizer is one solution Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB Dave Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 yes you're right, running fast i.e. over 50HZ which made it out of tune. I guess that's just down to the instability of the generator? With most generators, the output frequency is a function of the rotational speed of the generator armature, which is driven off a gas or diesel engine. So generator frequency is a function of engine RPM. For 99% of the tasks these generators face, it isn't necessary to have very precise frequency control. The exception of course is the Hammond organ's TG: it uses the line frequency as a reference pitch. If the generator rpms are running a little fast, the organ runs sharp. The Hammond organ is pretty tolerant of minor fluctuations in voltage, but not of frequency. After a rough experience at an outdoor festival, I installed the Trek II frequency conversion device in my Hammond. Not familiar with the KeyboardPartner.de device but I'm sure it works the same way. No touring Hammond should be without one of these devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisdanno Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Fly dates are one of the reasons I love the Nord Stage 2 SW73 as the core of my rig. All sounds come from it, and it always comes with me. It travels great as checked baggage. It rides in the Nord gig bag inside a Pelican 1750 rifle case (no foam). Room at the end of the case for an FC7 and a sustain pedal. Cables in the backpack in the overhead, Ventilator/ART PowerMix III/Radial JDI Duplex on a pedalboard that goes under the seat on the plane. The Nord SW73 sits nicely on top of a Yamaha CP300 with no need for a two-tier stand, and almost all backline companies will have a CP300 available (or a P250 or P200). Never had to do this, but if the airline loses or destroys the Nord, I have a backup file on my laptop that I can restore to a backline or hastily-procured replacement unit. I fly Southwest almost exclusively and out of maybe 150 flights with the Nord, it's failed to show up at baggage claim at my destination twice, and both times they've gone above and beyond to get it delivered to me ASAP (one time flying it in on another airline's plane, since I was on the last Southwest flight of the night). Laptop rigs are the gold standard for this sort of scenario since you can carry them on the plane with you, and just rent controllers, but I just haven't quite talked myself into making that leap yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Fly dates are one of the reasons I love the Nord Stage 2 SW73 as the core of my rig. All sounds come from it, and it always comes with me. This. Substitute Kronos 61, Kurz PC3K6 or certain other boards, but the principle applies. Carry a lightweight organ or synth action board, backline a hammer 88 as a controller. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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