Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
#1753617 05/18/07 07:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,096
Likes: 28
RABid Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,096
Likes: 28
I've gone from one extreme to the other and think I am finding a medium that works for me. It is not something that I mentally worked out, but something I noticed in my habits when using software and hardware. In the past year I have settled in and found that ...

* I prefer to play a quality ROMpler as a controller because overall the build is much higher in quality than cheap controllers.

* I want neither a computer nor pure analogs on stage.

* For years I wanted a hardware modular, but even though they have a different tone I cannot see that sound difference being worth the price or the maintenance requirement. I do really like the interface of the Nord Modular. Too bad no VSTi has equaled that.

* I no longer like rack units. What I do like is a ROMpler or beatbox that lets me get away from the computer and compose without distractions.

* When GAS hits it is not sound that causes it as much as filling a gap in a setup. Example, I no longer feel the need for the latest, greatest piano sound but I don't want something with waterfall keys.

* After hearing Zebra 2 I don't need an expensive VA like the Virus TI, but I wuld like to at least have something like an SH201 in my rig. Which brings me to ...

* My keyboards no longer need 128 note polyphone and a VA does not need 96 voices, but my computer does need 4 cores and 4 gig of memory.

So give me a nice, playable keybard that can let me compose without a computer and give me the biggest most powerful darn computer I can afford. \:P

Robert


This post edited for speling.
Keyboard Corner Island
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
RABid #1753626 05/18/07 07:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,657
Likes: 6
K
KCFF League Champ '13
10k Club
Offline
KCFF League Champ '13
10k Club
K
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,657
Likes: 6
I like software at home, and my Electros on the gig. I do make an exception for Zebra though - I'll take my laptop out to use that gorgeous beast.

Last edited by kanker.; 05/18/07 07:08 PM.

A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
kanker. #1753639 05/18/07 07:22 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,067
Likes: 6
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,067
Likes: 6
I recently bought software and have barely touched it. I doubt that I will invest any further in it.

If anything, I am even moreso pro hardware. My preference is to fire up and play one board which I use as a glorified Rhodes anyway. ;\)

I'll layer other things over the top at times but I really have no interest in bunch of different sounds, hardware or software.

If I do not cop a Motif, I will add a synth or clonewheel and go with two boards.

Otherwise, I am content with hardware and living vicariously through the rest of you when it comes to GAS.


PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
RABid #1753641 05/18/07 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 15
Grand Poobah of Posting
10k Club
Offline
Grand Poobah of Posting
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,598
Likes: 15
 Originally Posted By: RABid

* My keyboards no longer need 128 note polyphone and a VA does not need 96 voices, but my computer does need 4 cores and 4 gig of memory.

\:P

Robert




I love it when GAS strikes... somebody else.


No worries Robert. I've got hardware GAS too.

The other day, for some unknown reason, I bought a 4 gig flash drive.

I've got two already; a 512 Meg, and a 2 gig.

No reason to buy another one. I just wanted a 4 gig flash drive.

Oh, and it was only $30. \:\)

Something's wrong with me... I just know it.



"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
ITGITC? #1753677 05/18/07 08:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,600
Likes: 15
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,600
Likes: 15
For the present I love the clarity of softsynths and samplers but ... my views on the future have changed. A few years ago I thought soft synths were the future, and laptops would be the standard for gigs. Now I think the future of performed music is going be in hardware.

I think hardware platforms are going to be good enough fast enough that softsynths will become hardware-ized (like the Arturia Origin) to compete. I imagine softsynth versions of hardware synths will be made available when you buy the hardware, just to enable you to do production without involving a lot of studio space and cabling. My $0.01

Jerry

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Tusker #1753707 05/18/07 09:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,358
Likes: 11
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,358
Likes: 11
I thought softsynths were cool 'til I got the Omega8. Now I wanna be db or busch. Those two know what things should sound/play/mix like.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
RABid #1753761 05/18/07 10:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 805
Likes: 1
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 805
Likes: 1
Have my feelings changed?

Absolutely!!!

Basically, software has gotten to the point where it's covered all my "fake" bases. It's replaced my ROMplers, and my VA's...really my "virtual" anything. I don't feel the need to get a piano from a Motif when I've got over 70GB of piano samples on an HD that all sound better, y'know?
I've decided to hang on to ONE Rompler for convenience sake...everything else is going or already gone....and in it's place are "real" sound sources. Acoustic piano, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hammond, real analog....I've just become more excited using those sound sources, even if I end up filtering and effecting them to sound unrecognizablle in the end, and I've just been bored with the "fake" sound sources.
Software has the "fake" stuff covered for me....everything else out of the box is going to be organic.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
linwood #1753763 05/18/07 11:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,585
Likes: 256
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,585
Likes: 256
 Originally Posted By: linwood
I thought softsynths were cool 'til I got the Omega8. Now I wanna be db or busch. Those two know what things should sound/play/mix like.



Coming from you, that's a serious compliment. Your stuff is amazing...

My feelings haven't changed that much - I still just can't get my brain around my computer as an instrument. My computer is my recorder, and does quite a bit of my effects processing Yeah, I know, I know...ROMplers and VAs are just dedicated computers....but you're talking to a guy who still has trouble thinking of a module as an actual instrument...well, you can't play it by itself, can you? ;\) ...

I have a bunch of software, and I use two of them. I use the Legacy Wavestation because I think it sounds better and is easier to program than my WSSR (and syncs to tempo perfectly!), and I use Ivory because Ivory is amazing and I can always find something else for my ROMplers to be doing (I don't like multi mode either - I pretty much stick to that one part per instrument school).

dB

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Dave Bryce #1753775 05/18/07 11:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,493
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,493
I tried the software route for awhile, but I agree with you Dave--my computer isn't an instrument. I do graphic design all day and don't want to come home to "playing the computer" as well. I did a gig with the laptop once and got tired of the extra setup and boot up times, the USB dongle, more cables to trip over and worrying about power "blips."

Now I still really like my Legacy Wavestation and M1 (in the studio), but that's it.

Give me a hardware synth any day. \:\)

Last edited by Synthoid; 05/18/07 11:27 PM.

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Synthoid #1753782 05/18/07 11:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,183
R
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
R
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,183
I am all softsynth in the studio, and all hardware live.


David
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Reverend Rhythm #1753790 05/19/07 12:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,322
Laker Hater
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
Laker Hater
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,322
My feelings haven't changed at all. I use both softsynths and hardware. I like both and use both. I scream at both, cuss at both, I get happy with both, I get frustrated with both, love both and hate both. After about 2 hours of exhausting and bipolar type emotions, the realization that my frustrations are almost always human error set in. Its all in the day of music.


Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive
- Rush
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Reverend Rhythm #1753798 05/19/07 12:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,246
R
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
R
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,246
Live, the short answer is "yes." In the studio, I still mainly use VIs (Logic and NI, mainly).

Live, I started out with all hardware (Rhodes, Arp Omni, MS-20) way back when and then more recently went to a single Rompler and VA. I later added a couple of softsynths via my laptop (Reason and NI's B4), which did me fine for a couple of years. Now, I'm back to a single board (Nord Stage) for most gigs, with ocasionally my hardware VA (Ion) added in when I need more synth power. I've gone back to being computer/software free in my live rig.

While I still like software instruments, I've found that I still prefer hardware in a live setting.

Cheers,
Mark


"I don't know anything about music. In my line, you don't have to."
-Elvis Presley (1935-1977)
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
linwood #1753806 05/19/07 12:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 20
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 20
 Originally Posted By: linwood
I thought softsynths were cool 'til I got the Omega8.


+ A bazillion!

The only softsynth I feel worth investing time/money in right now is Zebra2.

Last edited by Marzzz; 05/19/07 12:49 AM.
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Marzzz #1753828 05/19/07 02:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,099
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,099
software is overrated...

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
RABid #1753843 05/19/07 03:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,200
Likes: 57
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,200
Likes: 57
I like software, but only when running inside a hardware box.

There are some advances in software modelling with pianos and Hammonds right now that are pretty darn amazing. But lug a laptop on stage without a dedicated hardware controller? Never!

This new Hammond clone (the KeyB Duo) is amazing sounding. Inside it is a computer running Linux. But look at the amazing hardware interface:



It models crosstalk 3 different ways: inside the generator bin, in the keyboard wiring loom, and in the drawbar bus.

The current GEM RP-X lust on this list is another step in the evolution to sofware modelled pianos, along with PianoTeq. They will eventually displace romplers and we will all be more expressive for them. But give it to me in a box with knobs and keys, please!


Moe
---
"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
mate stubb #1753850 05/19/07 03:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,875
?
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
?
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,875
It's the feel of the mouse that kills everything. \:D

When my fingers move a mouse, I work. When my fingers move black and white keys, I play. Or something like that.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
    #1753860 05/19/07 03:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,624
G
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,624
I think of my MacBook as an instrument, absolutely. The Vienna Instrument Harp has me spoiled, and I want the pipe organ now too! It's performance friendly, and housed in an haute couture package that rivals the finest french parfum.

My piano is a keeper, but I don't carry it because I'm worried the laptop will freeze. I carry it because it's mine.


"........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
gangsu #1753869 05/19/07 05:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,052
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,052
I've shifted. I'm less interested in software, particularly for gig use. Too much hassle. I'm still into the light weight setup but I may attach the Casio/Radio Shack to an RP-X. At least that's my current thought.


Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
    #1753871 05/19/07 05:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,099
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,099
 Quote:
It's the feel of the mouse that kills everything




it's because of the plastic wrapper...

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
delirium #1753939 05/19/07 01:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,103
R
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,103
My opinion of hardware and software is evolving as the two become one.

I've been working a lot with my Access Virus TI Polar, which can only be called a hardware VSTi. Obviously the TI is an excellent hands-on hardware synth but it's also a very powerful softsynth: it appears as a VSTi in your sequencer and each of the 16 "multis" can have it's own synth (up to polyphony) with it's own effects, eq, arpeggiator, etc. It's like having 16 Virus synths, all fully programmable from either software or hardware (both of which are very intuitive). The sounds are processed using the Virus hardware so there is very little load on the CPU when sequencing. As a bonus, the Virus TI can also function as a controller for other programs like Reason.

This is the kind of integration between hardware and software that more manufacturers should be working towards... for example, I would love to see a hardware digital piano that would show up as a VSTi on your computer with modeling software like Pianateq's. I would think that giving a digital piano ASIO sound capability would also improve it's signal-to-noise ratio for studio use.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
resigned #1753977 05/19/07 04:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,099
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,099
 Originally Posted By: The Pro
My opinion of hardware and software is evolving as the two become one.


if hardware becomes software your girlfriend is not going to like it...

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
delirium #1753985 05/19/07 04:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,104
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,104
 Originally Posted By: delirium
 Quote:
It's the feel of the mouse that kills everything

it's because of the plastic wrapper...


Funny post


Steve
A Lifetime of Peace, Love and Protest Music
www.rock-xtreme.com
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
linwood #1753986 05/19/07 05:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,141
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,141
 Originally Posted By: linwood
I thought softsynths were cool 'til I got the Omega8. Now I wanna be db or busch. Those two know what things should sound/play/mix like.


Linwood, you are WAY too kind.

Busch.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
burningbusch #1753993 05/19/07 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 601
J
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
J
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 601
Out of necessity my rig is now soft (Legacy Digital, B4, Minimonsta, Atmosphere, Pro52, Sonar6). At home my live rig is a mix. What will it become? My plan is to go with a mix, 2 hardware boards and my laptop/controller (Axiom61)for those times when I need that extra something that I will not have with the hardware (which won't be much, but I really LOVE B4 and Minimonsta). The AN1X (the check went out today) will handle the VA side, while either an S90ES or TritonX88 (really need to get to a real music store to try them both out when I get back) will handle the balance - of course, with the exception of the organs and occasional lead or counterpoint.

Jay

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
RABid #1753995 05/19/07 05:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,141
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,141
My views have changed somewhat. I'm not at all opposed to using a computer live. I did it for years with both Mac and PC laptops. It worked out just fine. Two things converged though. I found that the superior audio quality of most soft sounds didn't really translate when played live, while at the same time hardware sounds had improved in key areas. So currently, my gig rig is hardware: RD300SX as a controller MIDI to a Fantom XR and Yamaha VL1m.

For studio I still use a lot of software, e.g. Atmosphere, Trilogy, VSL, Ivory and many others. In the orchestral area, software instruments like VSL make hardware sound like a bad joke. The only digital hardware I tend to use are the unique pieces, e.g. VL and V-Synth.

I have found one area where hardware has become very useful is in composing, especially pop/groove/smooth jazz oriented music. I added a Tyros 2 a while back. It is SO much easier and inspiring to work through ideas with it than either a hardware workstation or DAW. My workflow is to work up the song idea and refine on the Tyros 2, then import the MIDI into the DAW. I use Tyros 2 sounds for some of the background sounds but replace key sounds and add new parts using software-based or real instruments.

In the studio I still use real instruments (acoustic, electromechanical, analog) whenever possible and when I have the time. 90% of the sound is made from soft synths or real. Digital hardware is at most 10%.

Busch.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
burningbusch #1754207 05/20/07 02:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 489
C
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
C
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 489
Hardware is convenient, software sounds better (mostly).
So in the studio, with the luxury of time, of course I'm using software. That's just common sense.

Live, as I have been doing recently, I'm beginning to find the set-up/tear-down & the unpredictability of my (crap) laptop very discouraging.

If I could I would just buy an Electro for the convenience, but...software sounds BETTER...not to mention far more flexible

Noones mentioned Muse Receptor, which on paper looks like the best of both worlds, would any the lucky Receptor owners out there like to comment?

Last edited by Clifton; 05/20/07 02:32 AM.
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Clifton #1754226 05/20/07 04:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,613
Likes: 17
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,613
Likes: 17
It depends upon which hat I wear.

The player in me mostly prefers hardware and real instruments.

The arranger in me mostly prefers software -- especially for symphonic instruments. (However, I agree that the Tyros2 is the best hardware in that regard.)

The programmer in me likes them both. I'd much rather program a software Wavestation than a Wavestation SR: +1 for software. On the other hand, I'd much rather grab knobs than move a mouse: +1 for hardware.

The Receptor is a good compromise between the two worlds.

Best,

Geoff


Enthusiasm powers the world.

Craig Anderton's Archiving Article
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Geoff Grace #1754657 05/21/07 12:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,096
Likes: 28
RABid Offline OP
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
OP Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,096
Likes: 28
I think my big disappointment in software is the hardware. Companies are rushing to make the cheapest controller possible and Firewire audio has more bugs and glitches than anything in the computer world. These problems lead to a less than optimal creative experience. In addition the VSTi spec is a moving target that Cubase is reluctant to share with other DAW programmers. If the VSTi/host/computer/controller combination was anywhere close to being as stable as a quality workstation I think people would have a much different view.

Robert


This post edited for speling.
Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
RABid #1754671 05/21/07 12:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 489
C
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
C
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 489
 Originally Posted By: RABid
I think my big disappointment in software is the hardware. Companies are rushing to make the cheapest controller possible and Firewire audio has more bugs and glitches than anything in the computer world. These problems lead to a less than optimal creative experience. In addition the VSTi spec is a moving target that Cubase is reluctant to share with other DAW programmers. If the VSTi/host/computer/controller combination was anywhere close to being as stable as a quality workstation I think people would have a much different view.
Robert


I don't think it's STEINBERG's (the maker of Cubase) fault that VSTs are not reliable.
Computers are not stable or reliable by nature, and always have been. Thats the core of the hardware v. software debate.

Re: Has your feeling on software vs. hardware changed?
Clifton #1754744 05/21/07 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,657
Likes: 6
K
KCFF League Champ '13
10k Club
Offline
KCFF League Champ '13
10k Club
K
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,657
Likes: 6
Steinberg is unbelievably cryptic as to what exactly the spec for VST is, has been, and will be. It kind of amazes me that VST has become a standard simply because of how little Steinberg lets developers know about the VST spec. Is it completely Steinberg's fault that a lot of VST's are unreliable, not completely, a lot of it comes down to bad programming, but I think there would be quite a number of more stable plugs out there if Steinberg would document the spec fully, or better yet, open it up. Steinberg definitely owns quite a bit of the fault.

Last edited by kanker.; 05/21/07 03:28 PM.

A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4