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Genesis 5.1 mixes #1752525 05/17/07 01:42 AM
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Dave Bryce Offline OP
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Just got the first box set of the Genesis 5.1 remixes - Trick of the Tail, Wind and Wuthering, And Then There Were Three, Duke and Abacab.

What an amazing job they did on these. I've only made it through trick of the Tail and part of Wind and Wuthering, but they're just phenomenal...

...if you like that sort of thing. ;\)

Anyone else get these yet/plan on getting them? Heck, I don't even know if many of you are into the 5.1 surround remix thing. I love 'em...between the DTS, DVD-A and SACD stuff, I must have close to 100 of them.

dB

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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1752613 05/17/07 04:44 AM
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Dave, who did the surrond mix on them?

I worked on a ton of SACD titles, and a few DVD-A's as well. Once you've listen to a good surround mix, it's hard to go back to stereo. It's a real shame neither (or none) of the surround formats have taken off.

Amongst the best surround mixes (IMHO):

Elton John "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"
The Who "Tommy"
Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon"
The Beatles "Love"
Beck "Sea Change"
Steely Dan "Gaucho"
Allman Brothers "Live at The Fillmore East"
Elton John "Tumbleweed Connection"

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: zxcvbnm098] #1752615 05/17/07 04:46 AM
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I have to admit I have no experience with 5.1 mixes of anything. Then again, I don't have a stereo of any sort outside of my car.


A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable.
Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: zxcvbnm098] #1752635 05/17/07 05:31 AM
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 Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Dave, who did the surrond mix on them?


Nick Davis.

 Quote:
I worked on a ton of SACD titles, and a few DVD-A's as well. Once you've listen to a good surround mix, it's hard to go back to stereo. It's a real shame neither (or none) of the surround formats have taken off.

Fully agreed.

 Quote:
Amongst the best surround mixes (IMHO):

Elton John "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"
The Who "Tommy"
Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon"
The Beatles "Love"
Beck "Sea Change"
Steely Dan "Gaucho"
Allman Brothers "Live at The Fillmore East"
Elton John "Tumbleweed Connection"

I have 'em all except the Allmans. All great ones mixes indeed.

I'd actually add Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow and Toy Matinee to that list. Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth ain't bad, either...and some of Toto IV (specifically Africa) is also excellent. The Beach Boys Pet Sounds is kinda fun as well - especially if you're used to the mono version.

BTW - the Beatles Love was mixed on ADAM S3As. Yeah, baby...

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1752644 05/17/07 06:04 AM
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I was just getting used to the idea of spending the big bucks on a pair of studio monitors. How many of the damn things do I have to buy now?


--wmp
Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: wmp] #1752751 05/17/07 01:36 PM
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I bet those mixes would be cool, but I'd have nowhere to play 'em.

Enjoy 'em!


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Joe Muscara] #1752756 05/17/07 01:52 PM
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Dave Bryce Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I bet those mixes would be cool, but I'd have nowhere to play 'em.

Don't most of you guys have 5.1 setups to watch movies? That's all it takes to play most of them (except the SACDs).

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1752759 05/17/07 01:55 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Don't most of you guys have 5.1 setups to watch movies? That's all it takes to play most of them (except the SACDs).


I don't. We haven't taken that step yet. We do have an HDTV, but that's as far as we've gone, and it was partially because our old primary TV was dying.

I wonder how many people have 5.1.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1752765 05/17/07 01:59 PM
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For me I have little interest because I don't have a 5.1 setup.

A stereo mix can be heard anywhere very easily; to take advantage of 5.1 you need a larger financial investment, and an appropriate space set up in which to listen, which is actually the tough part.

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Joe Muscara] #1752767 05/17/07 02:01 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
I wonder how many people have 5.1.

I wonder the same thing. I have no doubt that it's way more that don't than do...which just amazes me. There are plenty of inexpensive home 5.1 solutions, and movies are so much better with surround sound....not to mention concert videos...

It's not just a question of exposure, either - I've had plenty of people come over and listen to my system and lose their minds at how cool the surround stuff is, but most of them don't do anything about their own situation other than asking me if I'll help them pick out and set up a system....which I'm more than glad to do, but only one or two of my friends have actually taken me up on it.

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1752774 05/17/07 02:08 PM
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I'm stubborn, Dave. I won't invest in 5.1 until I can do it right. I've heard too many of these (relatively) cheap $100-800 "HTiB" systems, and they suck. I've also been treated to a full 7.1 audiophile system, using full-range monopole towers in all the key positions, with top-shelf processing and amplification. Price on that system was something in the $35,000 range.

I know which one I want, but right now it'd be worth nearly as much as my house...

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Joe Muscara] #1752776 05/17/07 02:09 PM
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I remember reading that these remixes were coming out. I'll have to pick them up. Thanks for the heads up David. If I recall, the others would be coming out at a later date. The one I'll be most intersted in is SEBTP of course.

I do have a 5.1 system, and I love the surround sound from DVDs. My Denon player will also play SACD as well as DVD audio, but it doesn't support 5.1 for CDs out of the optical connection. I have to set it up with RCA cables into my receiver, and I just haven't gotten around to bothering with those extra connections yet.

Griffinator, by the way, I really like my 5.1 system, and it came in under $2K, about 5 1/2 years ago. It's not my dream system by any stretch, but at least I have a good system that I'm happy with, and I've been enjoying it for over 5 years already.

You don't need to spend 5 figures to get a good quality sound system. I'm sure the $35K system you heard sounds better than mine, and probably a lot better. But is it $33K better? I seriously doubt it. I'm sure you could get a very good system that you'd be happy with for around $5K to $8K. All musicians need a surround sound system. \:\)

This is off topic a bit - but thinking of these formats make me think about the current battle of HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. This issue will stunt the growth of the HD market until it gets settled, and it's a shame. Can you imagine if the keyboard/music industry never got together on MIDI?

Regards.

Last edited by skykeys; 05/17/07 03:08 PM.

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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: skykeys] #1752869 05/17/07 04:41 PM
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I need more than two ears. ;\)

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: skykeys] #1752928 05/17/07 06:06 PM
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 Originally Posted By: skykeys
I remember reading that these remixes were coming out. I'll have to pick them up. Thanks for the heads up David. If I recall, the others would be coming out at a later date. The one I'll be most intersted in is SEBTP of course.

More than The Lamb? ;\)


 Quote:
I do have a 5.1 system, and I love the surround sound from DVDs. My Denon player will also play SACD as well as DVD audio, but it doesn't support 5.1 for CDs out of the optical connection.

Are you sure?

As far as I know, it has to do 5.1 Dolby Digital out the optical jack - I never heard of a DVD player that didn't - and if it has a DTS logo on it, then it should send that stream down the optical jack as well. It just won't send the SACD stream down the optical jack. I don't think any SACD player can do that.

Of course, I could be wrong - I'm hardly an expert.

FYI - some players actually have 5.1 to the optical jack toggled off in the setup software when it comes out of the box (which I think it just the stupidest thing. You may find your player is one of those.

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1753362 05/18/07 01:59 PM
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Dave, you're correct - and it is the SACD stream that I'm refering to that isn't support in the optical jack. I was surprised when I found that out. Do you happen to know why that is the case?

Oh, and in terms of The Lamb, well, of course I'll pick that up too. \:\) Actually, might they be packaged in the same box?

Thanks.
Skykeys


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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1753369 05/18/07 02:05 PM
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I've got it, and I have to agree that the listening quality is superb!

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Garrafon] #1753784 05/18/07 11:56 PM
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Holy guacamole! Thanks for the heads up, Dave. I'll be getting these discs for sure.

I though that they were supposed to be released as DVD-As or SA-CDs though? Are those formats dead now? I haven't kept up with it the last couple of years, but I do own a DVD-A and SACD player. I love the discs that I have, and am sad that the whole thing was handled (marketing-wise) so terribly.

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1753793 05/19/07 12:18 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
I'd actually add Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow ....[snip]


That's actually one of my favorite albums. I'll have to pick up that and couple others mentioned here to check them out. I've never spent much time with 5.1 (even though I do have a setup for movies at home). From what I'm reading, it's time to rethink that.

Great thread!
Cheers,
Mark


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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Odyssian] #1753797 05/19/07 12:25 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Odyssian
Holy guacamole! Thanks for the heads up, Dave. I'll be getting these discs for sure.

Do it do it do it....and, after you listen to the records, you get to check out the concert videos on a couple of them. Behind The Lines/Duchess/Guide Vocal, In The Cage medley and Dance/Double Drums/Los Endos from the Lyceum 1980 show (not in surround ) on the Duke DVD, and Trick of the Tail has that 1976 concert video most Genesis nuts know pretty well, with the back halves of Supper's Ready and Cinema Show both having old movie footage playing over them in selected spots (that one does plays in 5.1!).

Trick Of The Tail is the best mix of the five, IMO...but then again, I think that and Wind & Wuthering stand head and shoulders over the other three in stereo....

 Quote:
I though that they were supposed to be released as DVD-As or SA-CDs though?

I had heard same. They're Dolby Digital/DTS discs, and they sound pretty great to me...

 Quote:
Are those formats dead now?

I guess so...don't hear much or see any new releases.

 Quote:
I haven't kept up with it the last couple of years, but I do own a DVD-A and SACD player.

Me, too.

 Quote:
I love the discs that I have, and am sad that the whole thing was handled (marketing-wise) so terribly.

Couldn't agree more.

Hey, at least we have the ones we got, right?

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1753849 05/19/07 03:39 AM
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Yep!

Can't wait to hear WInd and Wuthering, and the others.. \:\)

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Odyssian] #1753880 05/19/07 06:18 AM
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One of the reasons neither (DVD-A or SACD) succeeded in the marketplace was because there were two competing, just like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD right now.

And unlike the Beta/VHS wars, but maybe like the DVD-A/SACD war, both could lose. In the case of the audio formats, they had the misfortune of coming as the iPod was coming into the market. That and other miscues from the parent companies of each technology made for a thud in the marketplace. Also, the major retailers HATED stocking two SKU's of a given album, like say "Blow by Blow" on CD and SACD.

But if the Blu-ray and HD-DVD guys don't watch out, downloadable hi-def movies could sneak in the back door. All the telcos are laying fiber in most major cities as we speak, and those are big fat pipes. We'll see. The upside for the IP holders of the physical format that "wins" is hundreds of millions of dollars in manufacturing royalties. Sony and Philips made a killing on the CD. But the gamble is pissing people off and them waiting to see what happens. The road of physical formats is littered with failures, and only 2 wins; CD and DVD. And as we have seen, Apple has gotten consumers accustomed to be comfortable without the physical product; in most cases for most people, not having the plastic is OK.....

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1753974 05/19/07 03:45 PM
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Excellent. I have an SACD/DVD-A player in my studio, and I've been picking up the odd title here and there. I've got Dark Side, Captain Fantastic, Nothing Like The Sun, Joshua Judges Ruth, etc, and have thus only been able to listen to them in stereo. I have a tonne of concert videos I'm itching to watch in surround as well. I don't have a surround sound setup <doh!>. I have to finish my basement first because that's where it's gonna go.

I imagine the Lamb would be the most spectacular, as it's one of their albums that has the most going on.
Merci M. Bryce.


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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: skykeys] #1754023 05/19/07 06:51 PM
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 Originally Posted By: skykeys
You don't need to spend 5 figures to get a good quality sound system. I'm sure the $35K system you heard sounds better than mine, and probably a lot better. But is it $33K better? I seriously doubt it. I'm sure you could get a very good system that you'd be happy with for around $5K to $8K. All musicians need a surround sound system.


I totally agree, but at the same time, I don't have $5-8K laying around to blow on a system.

I could probably frankenstein something together with all the amps and speakers I've got floating around the house, I'd just need a really good processor to manage them. I invest very carefully in my audio - a piece here, a piece there.

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: skykeys] #1754025 05/19/07 06:52 PM
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 Originally Posted By: skykeys
This is off topic a bit - but thinking of these formats make me think about the current battle of HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. This issue will stunt the growth of the HD market until it gets settled, and it's a shame. Can you imagine if the keyboard/music industry never got together on MIDI?

Regards.


The video format wars have been happening since the dawn of recorded video media. Remember VHS vs. Betamax?

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1755428 05/22/07 09:59 PM
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OK, now I've got SMAS (Surround Media Acquisition Syndrome) \:\)

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Pat Azzarello] #1755558 05/23/07 02:19 AM
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Do it. You so won't regret it. Wait 'til you hear The Beatles "Love" in surround - it's amazing.

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1755670 05/23/07 12:16 PM
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I was just checking out Amazon.ca. $170 for the same set, and it looks like they have all the titles available individually as well, for around $28.
Dave's site is definitely the best deal so far.


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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: DanS] #1755721 05/23/07 01:57 PM
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 Originally Posted By: DanS
Dave's site is definitely the best deal so far.

I'd only get the box set if you're a Genesis freak.

Of the five, I'm only really interested in Trick, Wind and Duke - And Then There Were Three isn't my cup of tea (ooooooh - Follow You Follow Me!!! ), and I only like a few songs on Abacab, but I did want the sixth disc with all the extra tunes (Inside and Out, Twilight Alehouse, Pigeons, etc) so I popped for the whole set.

dB

Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: Dave Bryce] #1755744 05/23/07 02:40 PM
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And Then There Were 3 was the album when the bass fell out.
I always wondered how Dave Hentschel could engineer 2 great albums like TOTT & W&W, which for the drums & low end were killer, and then serve up ATTW3 & Duke. I really like Duke, and a handful of tunes off of ATTW3 & Abacab, particulary Dodo/Lurker & Like It Or Not.
I had Spot The Pigeon on vinyl, so it would be nice to get that stuff on CD.


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Re: Genesis 5.1 mixes [Re: DanS] #1755976 05/23/07 08:25 PM
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Another vote for stereo consumer. I have no plans to move to 5.1.

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